Why did you find it necessary to portray yourself as unhinged, frothing, misanthropic madperson in your followup comment?

A momentary bout of honesty?

Don’t get all snippy with me. I didn’t call you any names other than your screen name. You called me both “idiot” and “SCHMUCK.”

Since you are the only one I’ve seen on the blogs I read that commented on it, I figured you must know what you are talking about, so I suggested you describe the correct holding method.

So what’s the problem? Why did you find it necessary to portray yourself as unhinged, frothing, misanthropic madperson in your followup comment?

Citation please for the Founding Fathers being Liberals (you won’t find it and can’t support it, so consider the request pro forma).

Careful with the definitions there. The framers were indeed “liberals” back in those days, when “liberal” meant a very different thing from what it means in American politics today. Unless you favor a return to the monarchy, you’re probably not much of a “conservative” by that day’s standards, either.

Comment by christian — 9/3/2008 @ 6:57 am

Citation please for the Founding Fathers being Liberals (you won’t find it and can’t support it, so consider the request pro forma). Second, if you’re SURE the kid can’t support himself being held the way he was SHOWN being held, how injured would you say he is and how evil must someone be for not taking him to the hospital? (Your “expert” status is not only self-fisking, your logic skills are as well.)

Finally, two last questions. Do they have Magic 8-ball on your planet, and if not, how do you decide anything? Also, you do realize the irony of your name here, right?

Or as DUtch would have said: “There you go again…”

AND as for the idiot who asked me if i was an expert at holding a baby…i am…i have 2 children, one is a newborn and you support their legs when you hold them you dont spread them out across your body because at 3 months with down syndrome im sure that kid cant support himself…SCHMUCK!!

Right-wingers here, a’plenty. And they’re slamming Obama over an issue where he has stolidly held to his principles and held his tongue. Even when he says nothing, they condemn him! That’s a real hoot, huh?
– If you’re praising him for holding his tongue, why can’t you hold yours?

Some say Obama’s campaign is behind all this – who are they kidding? Obama has an official campaign staff; THEY can’t comment on this. But I, an Obama supporter, certainly CAN.
– That’s right; you can. But he told you not to do it. Why are you defying him? Seems that you are not worthy to vote for him.

The GOP is behind this. They WANTED this publicity, WANTED to let Palin project an “image” of tolerance, forgiveness and family solidarity – at her own DAUGHTER’S EXPENSE! They planned it, even before she was offered the VP slot. And she eagerly went along with it, as did McCain. Loathsome.
– That’s right. They even hired Levi and paid him to knock her up! It was all pre-arranged because they knew how it would play.

Which party condones torture?
– Shut up about that or else I’ll beat you like a red headed stepchild.

Which party lies like a rug?
– That is not a rug on Biden’s head. Those are hair plugs. Get it straight.

Which party cheats, smears and fixes elections?
– Oh, so you’ve been to Chicago.

Which party puts abortions ahead of our economy?
– The country of leprechauns river-dancing inside your cabeza?

Or global warming? Or our busted schools and infrastructure? Or two WARS!!? But they do. Oh, they do.
– I’m confused. Which ones do they but before the economy?

Now, they have “family values”? How warm-fuzzy. And how fake.
– I’ll say! Whoever told you that family values are a new thing told you a fib.

Here they are at their convention, publicly PRAISING a mother who just committed heinous child abuse – right in the center of the public spotlight!
– Smacked her face on-camera, did she? Let’s you and me try that.

No innuendoes needed. She thrust her pregnant unwed child into a media hotbed – knowingly. Then proudly paraded their “family unity” – thus exploiting this poor child’s pain and trauma all the MORE.
– Their family isn’t really unified? And yeah, the media hotbed. Gosh, all of those questions from reporters that she’s had to deal with. So far the number of questions is up to ZERO.

Sorry, this is cruelty at its best.
– You’ve never been to a Celine Dion concert.

And none of it was hidden (except the things they say in private to Bristol, of course).
– And even that wasn’t hidden from your tinfoil hat.

A little 12-year-old girl on this page said it ALL. She hurts for the abuse and suffering of this little girl, and thinks her parents STINK for allowing it.
– You’re 12? Damn! I had “9″ in the pool.

Right on the button, m’dear. You are a true credit to your parents.
– Wait. I thought it was your parents that beat you. Oh, I see. The 12-year-old is the one you talk to sometimes; the one the others have a hard time seeing.

Then some troll gets up and calls this 12-year-old something like “fucking stupid,” and willing to say anything to support her own candidate.
– The regulars are not the trolls. In fact, trolls are irregular by definition, due to all of the shit they spew.

Dear troll: 12-year-olds CAN’T VOTE. But they DO know how a child feels when his/her own parents betray and abandon her. She was a child, and standing up – against whole hordes of adults on this page – for another child. BRAVO to her!
– And to the unicorn she rides. Bravo! Bravo!

Dear troll: go suck an egg.
– Dear Freak, go suck a fat-baby’s dick.

This 12-year-old would make a better VP than poor Bristol’s mother. She has common sense, compassion and basic human decency. I wish I knew her! I’d like to tell her how magnificent she is.
– So go to the mirror and tell her already.

I’ve always had a way with children, and now I think I know WHY.
– You’re not allowed to ‘have your way’ with children, and the judge will explain why.

They know I RELATE to how they think and feel. Does that make me a childish adult? Just try it! All my adult life, kids and teens have come to me for advice. And found it extrememly helpful. But even if I think their parents are twerps, I’ll never say that to their child – too harmful, even if true.
– Boy, I sure hope Bristol doesn’t read this. Whose fault will her trauma be then?

But I won’t tell them the problem is all because they need to be “better, more obedient children” either. I’ll find a way to help the child COPE. Without dissing the parents. I genuinely love young people. They’re the hope of the future, but they’re also precious to watch, as they grow and learn and mature. To have a positive impact on their development is sheer joy to me.
– Are you sure that your name is Holly B.? It’s starting to look more like Michael J.; and I don’t mean Jordan.

If Bristol had come to ME with her pregnancy, I’d have never dreamed of denouncing her.
– Did her family do that? No.

I’d give her all the hope, love and support I could.
– Which is what her family did. And you criticized them for it.

But not being her mother, the DECISIONS about publicizing her plight were not mine to make. Nor were they Bristol’s.
– Because the best thing would have been to hide her and her shame from the world.

Even if she SAID it was OK for her mom to be the VP pick – how could Bristol, still a child, fully understand what all that publicity – which would inevitably be highlighting shame and giving her trauma a booster shot – would mean to her?
– Yeah. I mean, she’s less than a year away from being able to make 100% of her own decisions. Why should she be allowed to make even one now?

And with a judgmental family behind her, they’d give her no choices at ALL. Even “choosing” to keep the baby was NOT her choice at all.
– Yeah. You’re so caring that you’d support her deciding to kill it.

I know how she feels: like she’s in a room full of alligators.
– “Alligators in the sewers.”

Protecting HER was her mother’s duty. For a REAL mother, it should have been her PRIME DIRECTIVE.
– But the Prime Directive is to not interfere with — oh, forget it.

Nothing I could have said or done with Bristol could have spared her this, though I wish it could.
– Which means if you were her mother you would have failed her too; right?

All I can do is tell her, from a place like this, to “hold on!” Even though “this too shall pass” is a pitiful comfort, it’s all I’d be able to offer her. I only hope her mind is intact by the time she is a full adult.
– We’ll know by this time next year. See ya then.

I wish I could give her a big, nonjudgmental HUG!
– Give one to yourself, and then stop being judgmental.

And tell her that no matter what, there IS magnificence in her – she only needs to find it and build on it. When she gets a chance to, that is.
– When she escapes that evil harpy what raised her you mean.

Poor little kid.
– Exactly what I was going to say about you.

Um last time I checked Obama’s Mother wasn’t actually running for VP and pushing an *abstinence only education* which obviously didn’t work for her daughter.

– Um, last time I checked Obama was the one who brought up the similarity with what his mother went through at the same age, as he was pushing for assholes to not make anything out of it, which obviously didn’t work for some of the shit-stains around here.

Obama can’t say anything about this poor child’s plight, or how her parents are handling it. Because he is right – intimate family matters should be off limits for his campaign.
– What he said is that it is (not “should be” – is) off-limits for everyone: his campaign, the media. and you.

But this family situation DOES bear heavily on Sarah Palin’s character – particularly her political platform of “family values.”
– Right. And it shows that she is consistent with them.

Not to mention her basic character.
– Which is informed by her family values.

These are legitimate areas for scrutinizing a candidate.
– In private. Defying the Messiah will come back to bite you in the ass on Judgment — er, Election Day.

She may have the competence, but she does NOT have thc character.
– There’s no “may” about it; she has both, in spades.

It didn’t have to be this way. SHE chose to let this situation shame her daughter globally.
– Not overstating the case ever so slightly, are you? Is this how desperate to win you lib pieces of shit have become? If you care about minimizing Bristol’s “shame”, there’s one thing YOU can do to help: shut the fuck up about it.

Look at how Obama is protective of his two little girls. He pulled the rug promptly when he saw that the media would dig into them for anything they could find. He ended it – cold. He is a family man and a father FIRST. A loyal American SECOND. A presidential candidate THIRD. He doesn’t just say it, he lives up to it.
– Look at how this piece of shit lies. Sarah Palin has never subjected her children to a national TV interview; neither has John McCain.

THAT is walking the talk.
– THAT is talking the shit.

But Sarah Palin does it, too – her talk, and her walk, is her absolutist religion. And that’s something for us all to DREAD.
– Don’t let fear rule your life, fucking pussy!

Obama can’t say anything, but I know precisely where his sympathies lie: with that poor innocent child. Can you even IMAGINE him allowing one of his daughters to be subjected to something like this?
– Of course not. He doesn’t want them “punished with a baby”. But to your point, why is he allowing pieces of excrement like you to subject us to this shit?

Sara Palin AND her husband, AND John McCain ALL KNEW of this child’s pregnancy. They also KNEW it would be impossible to keep under wraps if her mother accepted the VP slot. They knew it would be traumatic for this girl, who is still just a child herself.
– It will be a lot less traumatic if you and all of the other cuntlicks will just shut the fuck up.

Yet this mother accepted the nomination, despite the horrific cost to her own child.
– Horrific? It’s almost like you’re actually saying “Don’t you guys know what kind of uncaring cocksucking pieces of filth we are?”

Even if this little girl gets up and says publicly that she WANTED her mom to accept the post – it doesen’t count.
– “Little girl”? She gets younger, and by extension more the victim of her power-hungry birthing parent, line by line.

She’s a minor, and isn’t legally able to make responsible adult decisions. THAT was her parent’s duty. In which they knowingly failed miserably. Then made a virtue out of it.
– So, ‘not legally responsible’ is the same as ‘congenitally unable’ to make a responsible adult decision? What decision did her parents fail to make?

I don’t care how much they bleat that they’re PROUD of their daughter’s decisions, etc. – what they all did, by Sarah Palin’s acceptance as McCain’s running mate – was to throw her under the bus.
– What bus? To ‘throw someone under the bus’ is to distance yourself from that person, to tell them you will no longer have anything to do with them. What “they all did” was exactly the opposite, prickstein! They embraced her.

Worse. They threw her to the media wolves.
– Typical libshit. The media wolves have no personal responsibility for their scandal-whoring ways.

Poor little kid. They didn’t even care about her education, but LET her drop out of high school!
– Does telling lie after lie make your dick grow from one millimeter to two?

I don’t hear liberals castigating this little girl – but I do hear them castigating her MOTHER. And with ample reason.
– Well if all you twatrags are doing is attacking Sarah, how then is Bristol being shamed “globally”?

But that was only the beginning, because the next thing they did was to EXPLOIT the situation for political points – to show how tolerant, forgiving and “together” their family was.
– Translation: they were honest. It’s not surprising that you don’t recognize it.

The Palins are bornagains, creationist/absolutist “believers” in the extreme religious right. What do we know about their faith, about its “moralities”? Easy. Zero tolerance for unwed mothers. They’re “lost souls,” trollops, sluts, painted Jezebels, on and on. It is REQUIRED in the faith for her parents – and the whole family – to be mercilessly harsh, heavily judgmental of her.
– And the evidence that they were harsh and judgmental towards Bristol is what?

Saying publicly how proud they are of her is gaining political points for Sarah – while her treatment of her own little girl was nothing short of heinous.
– How so?

In the privacy of her home, this little girl is being subjected to condemnation beyond belief! The recriminations are hailing down on her virtually every minute the family is alone together. There IS no other way to treat her, under the moralities of the bornagain faith.
– Oh, I see! You turn yourself into a fly and then enter their house as an undercover insect. Very clever.

They’re either doing THAT, or they aren’t really bornagains.
– Wait, I thought that you KNOW what’s going on.

Since we know they ARE bornagains, we know how this little girl is being made to suffer at home.
– Whoop. Now you know again. It is a bit confusing, trying to keep your own bullshit straight.

So this “family solidarity” is pure sham, simply for the sake of an “image” which plays well with the religious right.
– They’re bad and they’re disingenuous!

In private, this little girl’s family life is hell on earth. And the religious right knows full well that her parents are required to castigate her constantly – and they’re applauding it all.
– Methinks thou dost protest too much . . . and that you deserved every ass-whuppin’ you ever received.

But that wasn’t all her OWN PARENTS did to her. They are now exploiting the media coverage to show how “tolerant and forgiving” they are – for political gain.
– Perhaps they should pretend that they don’t really have any kids.

EXPLOITING this poor child’s anguish and trauma for ambition.
– Is that what pregnancy is these days? It’s a wonder that Obama’s mama made it through being pregnant AT THE SAME AGE.

The religious right knows these parents are anything BUT forgiving and tolerant. But they go along with the sham, too, for political purposes.
– The entire religious right is in on a cover-up now? Maybe they didn’t beat you enough; they didn’t get any sense into you.

If their daughter had KILLED someone, this family would still find a way to tell their constituents how PROUD they are of her. It’s ALL for image.
– This one God will get you for writing. You knew it was a lie before you typed a single letter, and yet you did it anyway.

Yet the GOP claims one of its strongest platforms is “family values.” They’re applauding this family.
– That’s right; warts and all.

A child, abandoned and betrayed – and then EXPLOITED – by the people she loved, trusted and needed most, and at a time in her short little life when she needed them most of ALL.
– And, surprisingly – because you’ve mentioned it so many times but still haven’t – you still have not explained how she has been either abandoned or betrayed. But don’t let little details like details get in the way.

ALL my sympathy is for this child.
– Hard to tell by ANYTHING that you’ve written here.

This isn’t “family values” or “family solidarity,” nor is it “tolerance and forgiveness.” It’s flat CRUELTY to a child.
– And the ‘cruel’ part is not allowing her to kill it, is that right? Shit. Why am I asking? Of course that’s what you meant.

And it’s a cruelty in which John McCain was fully – and knowingly – complicit. He didn’t mind it one bit.
– That’s right. McCain, during one of his multitudinous flashbacks, declared “The Viet Cong tortured me; now it’s Bristol’s turn!”

To know how cruel it is, ask yourself if you’d been in the shoes of Sarah Palin, what would YOU have done if it was YOUR daughter?
– The exact same thing.

Exploiting your own child’s misery, shame and trauma by knowingly allowing the media to make a global spectacle of her “error in judgment”?
– Again you admit that it is the media that should be the target of your spleen. Off with you, then. Go bug them.

Thrown your child under the bus to serve your ambition to become VP?
– Never would. And they never did.

Or with sadness and regret, would you take a pass on the post, for the sake of an innocent child, from a core of “family values” that makes protecting one’s own, particularly one’s CHILD – an absolute imperative, a priority higher than ANY kind of ambition?
– The imperative isn’t to be an overprotective nanny; that’s your side of the sewer.

Forget “family values” – human parental INSTINCT has, as a major component, protecting one’s own, particularly one’s own dependent CHILD. Even animals have the instinct to protect their young – often giving it priority over their own lives.
– Based on this rant, Sarah IS the one out there being attacked by you and others. She’s doing exactly what you just said she should do.

In humans, it seems easy to forget protecting our children – particularly when there’s ambition to be served, and a religion that tells us to condemn our own kin for a sexual “sin.”
– Nobody has forgotten a thing. We are protecting her. She has not ‘condemned her kin’.

So where was the protectiveness for THIS poor little girl? From her mother? From her father? From John McCain?
– Get in John McCain’s face about it. Go ahead.

GOP and “family values”? My mother’s snood.
– From the department of repeat it a hundred times department.

This was just plain CRUELTY. Despicable, reprehensible child abuse.
– Child abuse? Call the authorities! Ask them to beat you like mums and dads used to.

Is a cruel mother fit to be a leader? Does she have ANY good character traits if she could do what she did to her own child?
– She’d kick your wimp ass.

The GOP righteously holds forth how important family values and character are in a candidate.
– That’s “rightly”, not “righteously”.

Obama protects his family. McCain cares nothing for protecting Palin’s, especially because the little girl’s OWN MOTHER doesn’t.
– Lie.

This woman does NOT stand for women’s rights, but against them.
– Motherfucking lie.

How she treated her own daughter speaks of that eloquently.
– Replace “that” with “her” and you will have finally said something true.

She’s no steward of women’s rights, or a shining example of a working mother. She’s a complete character meltdown, not fit to lead a kitten, much less a nation.
– I’m betting that you have a nation of kittens sharing your home with you.

It wasn’t her daughter’s place to give her mother “permission” to go ahead. She’s still too young to grasp the full implications. It was her mom’s duty to shield her, protect her, and instead her mom used her horribly. It’s pure child abuse.
– Actually, Bristol gave her mom permission to shield and protect her, which is what she’s doing.

To these people, what they say, the image they project, is much more important than what they really DO. Hippocrisy rules.
– If you try to project the image that you are a tolerant understanding compassionate human being, instead of a shit-talking ass-fucking jizz-swilling waste of space — then it’s you who is the Hippo-crit.

It’s a deep low point when cruelty to a child can actually be applauded.
– If I had been there when they beat you I would have showed my appreciation.

You bet I’m disgusted. I wish I could help that poor little girl somehow.
– Make this your last blog post for the rest of your life. That will work; I promise.