Beldar’s Thoughts on the Palin Family
[Guest post by DRJ]
Sarah Palin’s 17-year-old single daughter is pregnant and it’s one of the hottest topics in the media, on the internet, and perhaps even in homes and offices.
I have mixed feelings about this. I don’t think it reflects poorly on Palin, primarily because I haven’t seen anything that suggests Palin and her husband encouraged or condoned teen sex. But getting pregnant at 17 is not something I consider a good choice. Our kids know we love them but they also know that any pregnancy means the parents – no matter how old – have to take responsibility for the life they created. This seems to be the same rule the Palins follow based on this statement:
“We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us. Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support.
Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi’s privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates.”
Senator Obama promptly said that the children of politicians are off-limits and noted that his mother was 18 when he was born.
I’m impressed by both these statements. I’m also impressed by these thoughts from Beldar:
“I obviously don’t know for sure what conversations Gov. Palin had with her family, and in particular with her daughter Bristol, before giving Sen. McCain her decision. But given this history from 2004 — when a veto from Track stopped her from running for a U.S. Senate seat she might very well have won, in which case she would have become Barack Obama’s Senate classmate — I would wager a very, very large sum of money that Bristol Palin was given a veto right again. I would wager that she was warned, in detail, about the certainty that her privacy would be invaded in a sickening, vicious manner.
And I would wager that Bristol Palin must have said: “Go ahead, mom. Tell Senator McCain ‘Yes.’ I know what’s coming, but my baby and I will be okay.”
We know that Track decided to put his life and limb at risk for his country by enlisting in the Army and volunteering for service in Iraq. But Bristol Palin’s decision may be one of the most fearless, selfless acts any seventeen year old young woman has ever made. Even thinking of her being confronted with it brings tears to my eyes.”
As with all Beldar’s posts, read the whole thing.
— DRJ
I posted this on the Sullivan comments, but meant it for here:
I wonder how all this is influencing the very youngest voters–the ones who saw Juno 2 or 3 times. Or may be seniors in high school, maybe getting ready to vote the first time. Or at least thinking about registering in the next year or two.
Which party looks more sane to you, if you were an 18 year old? The one tearing apart a 17 year old girl?
KateCoe (824f18) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:02 pmSullivan was correct that something was really weird about this family, I’m glad he pursued the general story. Anyone who thinks this careerist woman has anything to do with authentic family values is undiscerning.
Jack (2c3adb) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:08 pmDRJ, can you fix the Beldar link? Not working.
No doubt Bristol Palin had veto rights and given that she was straight up with her parents regarding her pregnancy revealed not only her strength but also her knowledge of the kind of people her parents are. The love would appear very mutual.
Jack, the first three words of your comment are all we need to know.
Dana (084de8) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:21 pmI’m just pissed at Levi. (Inside joke, newer readers. I’m happy to explain if you want to e-mail me.)
Patterico (cc3b34) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:24 pmJack thinks “authentic family values” means a woman shouldn’t pursue a career, I guess. This woman, at least, begs to disagree.
No doubt Bristol Palin had veto rights and given that she was straight up with her parents regarding her pregnancy revealed not only her strength but also her knowledge of the kind of people her parents are. The love would appear very mutual.
Exactly.
no one you know (1ebbb1) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:25 pmLink to Beldar fixed.
Patterico (cc3b34) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:27 pmJack, you are a sexist.
Do you deny it?
If you’re not a drive-by commenter, then, answer this:
Could you say the same thing about a man? Explain how.
Patterico (cc3b34) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:29 pmThanks, Dana and Patterico. Sorry about the link.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:29 pmAttempting to link to Beldar: link
htom (412a17) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:31 pm…and Jack? Palin has proven she can not only be barefoot, pregnant, bring home the bacon and govern the state of Alaska, all the while looking hot to boot. We call it multi-tasking. Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the term.
Dana (084de8) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:32 pmI copy myself from a different thread –
In telling the press today that this topic is off-limits, Obama noted that his mother was only 18 when she gave birth to him. Let’s look a little closer:
Obama’s mother, Ann, was born November 29, 1942.
She married Obama’s father on February 2, 1961.
Barack was born August 4, 1961.
Barack was born 6 months after his parents got married, and 8 months (+ one week) after his mother turned 18. So, she was already pregnant when she got married, and it’s possible that she was still 17 when she got pregnant.
Icy Truth (6699a6) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:35 pmNot much different from what is happening with Bristol Palin right now, is it?
Mr. Frey, I well remember Levi. But I am missing the connection here in this thread. Maybe I am tired.
Thanks for defending the Palin family against some truly trollish people.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:36 pmEric Blair, the father of Bristol’s baby is a young man named Levi.
Dana (084de8) — 9/1/2008 @ 10:39 pmOh dear God. I need pair of long forceps to remove that thought from my brain.
Thanks for the the clarification, Dana.
I saw the newspaper article on the guy. Isn’t it great how privacy seems to be an important part of the MSM? Complete with quotes from his MySpace page.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:01 pmJack Cough –
Anyone who thinks this careerist woman has anything to do with authentic family values is undiscerning.
— Anyone who thinks that anything you say has any value whatsoever is unconscious.
“The biggest difference between Republicans and Democrats in ethnic/gender trailblazing is that the Republicans wait until they have found a candidate that can do the job.”
Icy Truth (6699a6) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:07 pm— poster by the name of “ropati” at Townhall.com
Patterico – I don’t think the Levi we know has been close enough to anything female with only two legs to do the deed.
Trust me on this.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:10 pmdaleyrocks, your comment was uncalled for.
Baaaaaaaaad, in fact.
Thanks for the chuckle.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:12 pmEric:
daleyrocks was just being handy with the forceps you asked for.
EW1(SG) (625c58) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:15 pmI’m a giver.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:16 pmCome to think of it, I denounce myself for being a speciesist.
It reminds me of the Dinesh D’souza story:
http://books.google.com/books?id=SiU7c3iQjLQC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=d'souza+%22dartmouth+bestiality+society%22&source=web&ots=L5jYTZdFLL&sig=4gNFcc7h9Q8uL-zuUmqKwErYfkU&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA28,M1
I hope that long link worked.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:18 pmAs an Obama supporter, I think that those who (a) question Palin’s ability to be a new mom and vice presidential candidate, as well as (b) those who want to make Bristol a campaign issue need to STFU.
Having said that – and this isn’t a campaign issue – but this occurrence does serve as another reminder of how useless abstinence-only education can be if those who do choose to have sex don’t know to use protection. In the case of Levi and Bristol, it’s clear this wasn’t supposed to happen. So what went wrong? And what goes wrong for so many other kids year after year?
Tom (305e11) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:41 pmI doubt there are many teens who don’t know about contraceptives and condoms, but there are probably a lot who think they are bulletproof and don’t need them.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:44 pmSo what went wrong?
— Seventeen.
Icy Truth (6699a6) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:48 pmTom-
I doubt that there’s a single person of my age, in the USA, who either has TV or a brain, that can’t figure out how to use “protection.”
Now, looking at my classmates who were taught only “protection” based methods…I’d say that folks just *don’t use them.*
Foxfier (15ac79) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:49 pmSee also: why young drivers keep getting killed by not wearing seat belts, why idiots keep setting forest fires, and why people getting morbidly obese; it’s easier not to do the safe thing.
Foxfier (15ac79) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:51 pmSullivan was correct that something was really weird about this family
Yeah: They love each other. No wonder he’s so confused.
Jim Treacher (592cb4) — 9/1/2008 @ 11:58 pmSo…not to be difficult and all…but did the sex education classes result in higher or lower levels of teenage pregnancies?
You see, I think folks are onto something here: the classes don’t have much of an impact. Maybe the statistics say something different? Not that anyone could show causation, I know.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:11 amDRJ: …there are probably a lot who think they are bulletproof and don’t need them.
Foxfier…it’s easier not to do the safe thing.
Yeah, there’s definitely some truth to that. Still, that doesn’t mean there’s no room for improvement. it’s interesting to me that teen pregnancy rates are on the way back up four years into Bush’s big abstinence-only push. Yes, correlation ≠ causation, but again, we’re clearly at a point where we need some improvement. So now what?
I think it comes down to expectations. We somehow need to make “sex involves protection” at least as prevalent as “it’ll never happen to me.” Which seems more difficult to do when your sex ed is simply “just say no.”
Tom (305e11) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:14 amEric, heh…didn’t see your comment before I linked to an article titled “Study Casts Doubt on Abstinence-Only Programs.” And in fairness, as you and I have both said before, it doesn’t prove anything. But we were doing better before, so we know we can get those rates at least as low in the future.
Tom (305e11) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:17 amTom-
that may be related to the lower abortion rates, among other things.
As odd as it sounds, what the kids are told in school is NOT the only reason they’d be pregnant and/or stay pregnant.
Foxfier (15ac79) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:27 amSide note: the article SAYS that it’s too soon to tell if it’s a blip, and the only one saying that Abstinence Only is to blame…is the abortion provider rep. It also mentions that those in their 20s-40s are having more kids.
Foxfier (15ac79) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:31 amThanks Tom for you (almost) lone sensible voice in all of this. The whole idea of abstinence – where sexual interest is deemed unnatural unless you are married and want to have a child, can only lead to more teenage pregnancies. Of course some people can always find alternative outlets for their sexual frustrations, such as joining the NRA. Doesn’t have me sleeping better at night.
UNZ (36e6c2) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:31 amWell, gotta watch those statistics. From Tom’s own reference (and as Foxfier suggests):
So perhaps adults need those same sex ed courses, too?
Condoms for everyone!
Eric Blair (642d37) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:35 am“useless abstinence-only education”
Lets clear up a minor misconception if we can here… abstinence-only education is 100% proven to work (well 99.9% not counting Mary), it is the students who fail, not the education.
People really need to get back to personal responsibility; when the teaching isn’t working, is it the teaching or the student? There’s only so many times you can say 2+2=4. This is basically the same thing happening in high schools (that I’m familiar with). Students don’t do well, the school board changes the curriculum or teacher’s methods until scores go up or they change again. It’s always lain at the step of the teacher or the teaching, never at the students.
No sex always = no pregnant; heh
Lord Nazh (ce25e3) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:00 amSenator Obama promptly said that the children of politicians are off-limits and noted that his mother was 18 when he was born.
From the “The Washington Prowler” at the American Spectator website:
L.N. Smithee (452a68) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:08 amLet’s see, a politician who favors abstinence only edcuation bursts onto the National and International scene touting her conservative creds and 72 hours later makes it known that her 17 year old unwed daughter is pregmant. Just exactly WHO has made the daughter an issue anyway? Perhaps her mother who has placed her on the stage? Who has left her daughter open to this kind of coverage? Sarah Palin.
BTW, isn’t it nice that Bristol has “chosen” to keep the baby. In the world as it is now she can make that “choice”. If her mother gets her way no woman will be able to make that choice.
Cara (51fbe9) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:49 amObama daughter Malia was born in 1998. Close examination of 1997 photos show Barack Obama with a Belly. Is it possible he was pregnant?
Dennis D (ae900a) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:53 amThere are really 2 questions that must be asked.
1) Should having a preggers teen disqualify a VP candidate from consideration?
2) Should embracing a known domestic terrorist be reason enough to reject a candidate at the voting booth?
Dennis D (ae900a) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:56 amIt never happens to you when you just say no. Abstinence is 100% effective. It used to be that abstinence was widely practiced, but that was waaaaay back when we still had shame. Which, thanks to the Kossacks and their fellow travelers in the media, may be making a comeback.
In the heat of the moment, it’s easy to forgo a condom. If you never get to the heat of the moment there will be no pregnancy, std or other undesired result.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:17 amNo Cara, that would be the freaks at Daily Kos, who also gave the Palins a fortuitous opportunity to bring this to light in response to the vile rumored being hammered about Trig not being Sarah’s child.
Do try to keep up.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:20 amCara sez
In the world as it is now she can make that “choice”. If her mother gets her way no woman will be able to make that choice.
What, VP Palin is going to prevent women from marrying and keeping their babies?
Darleen (187edc) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:18 amaddendum to Dennis @ #38
If an offspring making a mistake constitutes an unfit parent, and consequently an unfit parent should be banned from work and certainly a VP nomination,
Why is Biden still on O!’s ticket when his son is is being sued for defrauding investors?
Didn’t Joe ever teach his kid stealing is wrong?
I guess O! didn’t vet Joe.
Darleen (187edc) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:25 amCan somebody explain to me how can a pro-life politician say something like this? Is it not a pro-life position that there should be no decision-making at all in this situation?
Nikolay (179e24) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:31 amIs it not the same as saying “we’re proud of Bristol’s decision not to engage in a slaughter of the innocent human being”? I mean, pro-lifers see abortion as just that. Doesn’t this statement prove that Palin’s pro-life position is just a political posturing?
Nikolay: you’re statement proves your a hack, but then you probably knew that.
Palin (Sarah) being a very pro-life woman does not necessarily equate to Bristol being one. Hence Sarah would be proud of Bristol having a baby and not a ‘burden’ as BO would term it.
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:34 amAdd cara and Nikolay to the list of morons.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:35 amAt this point, if they don’t know about them, I would be concerned with how the manage to remember to breath, and how they are able to drool without instructions…
Because that would have to be one stupid kid.
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:36 amApparently you missed the part where it was mentioned that Bristol and Sarah are different people.
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:40 amBeing pro-life doesn’t mean thinking that abortion is a bad thing. If that was the case, 99% of Democratic politicians would be pro-lifers. Being pro-life means wanting to outlaw abortion. How can Sarah Palin commend someone for making a right choice when it’s her political position that there should no be such choice at all?
I honestly don’t understand this. There’s a number of pro-lifers who compared Roe vs. Wade to Holocaust. Would someone in their right mind commend someone for “the right choice of abstaining from slaughtering Jews”?
Nikolay (179e24) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:52 amMaybe in your world.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:56 amTruer words were never spoken.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:56 amOK, can you tell, what exactly does being pro-life mean? Does it mean being pro-choice?
Nikolay (179e24) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:59 amThank you for reading our minds…
As Rush Limbaugh once said “I’m pro-choice, I just would rather the choice be life”.
Even the Anti-RvW justices aren’t anti-abortion. Justice Scalia has said repeatedly that there is no doubt that Abortion aught be legal. The issue is with the decision making it a federal, not state, issue.
Palin isn’t anti-abortion, she’s anti-RvW. There is a mountain of difference you refuse to accept.
I, for example… I don’t agree with abortion, but I also understand why someone might choose it. Simply because I disagree (and in many cases consider it immoral) doesn’t mean I wish to make it illegal. I do, however, think that it is none of the business of the Federal Government, and that States should be allowed to decide for themselves.
But then again, I’m one of those pesky federalists, libertarians, and strict constructionists…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:01 amSee Update below.
If its Sarah Palin, why is she distinctly not pregnant in a photograph which was apparently taken on Super Tuesday, which is in February, when, as Jazz Shaw points out, Palin would have been about six months along in her pregnancy?
Keep in mind, before we wind up the Friday night activities in Blogistan, that this is still only ten hours after the announcement of Sarah Palin as John McCains VP announcement caught so many of us flat-footed. In ten hours, though, the hits keep on coming. Lets take a quick look at a few more.
The first one, and possibly the most tawdry of the bunch, came via several e-mails which arrived after the announcement here at Jazz Headquarters. Check out this picture of Sarah Palin from Super Tuesday this year.
Its a nice shot, but according to at least once source it was taken on Super Tuesday. Thats in February. At that point, Palin should have been six months pregnant with her last child. It does make me wonder if the following will turn into a story.
the oldest girl is rumored to have actually been the one who had the last baby, the one with Downs Syndrome. She was taken out of school the last 4 or 5 months of her mothers pregnancy.
On March 5th, 2008 Alaskas Republican Governor, Sarah Palin, announced to the media that she was 7 months pregnant with her 5th child. She is currently 44.
Palins daughter Bristol is 16 and attends an Anchorage high school. Students who have attended class with her report that she has been out of school for months, claiming a prolonged case of mono.
Palin does not appear pregnant in any recent photographs. The announcement came as quite a shock to people who had worked closely with her, and have been quoted as saying that she did not appear pregnant whatsoever during the prior 7 months. While this is debatable, you can judge for yourself here: http://gov.state.ak.us/photos.php
(Ed Note: That link has since died since we first looked at it. The pictures were removed today.)
IF there is anything to this story, there are two issues as I see them. First, and most obvious, is the honesty issue. Why would Palin have lied about who the mother was? Which leads to the second issue: If Bristol Palin IS the mother, how does she feel about all this? If the story is true, and Sarah Palin lied to spare her daughter embarrassment or emotional pain, what does that say about how Bristol Palin felt about the pregnancy itself?
The fact that the photographs of Sarah Palin at a time when she would have appeared to be pregnant, if she really was, were taken down and the link killed, is a little odd if theres nothing to the story.
This theory would explain a bizzare episode in the Palin pregnancy: allegedly, her water broke in Texas and she flew to Alaska for the birth, without notifying the airline. http://startelegram.typepad.com/politex/2008/04/more-on-that-al.h
tml
This seemed really risky and unwise when I heard it last week. But if Bristol was at home and her water broke while mom was in TX, it makes sense in terms of maintaining a cover story.
GeorgeGOP (1d3ba7) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:03 amAs I mentioned in the previous thread, if the Dems want to have this debate, then bring in on – please. Obama knows what will happen if this continues much further, and is correctly scared to death of it. If others are going to besmirch Ms. Palin’s parenting, then by all means let’s discuss Obama’s mother’s decision in the same breath. In that equation, Obama loses – every time.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:04 amRemind me to introduce you to a friend of mine who wasn’t showing until about month 8…
See, it isn’t required for a woman to bulk up like some sort of sea-beast when they are pregnant. Weight gain of the magitude we generally see isn’t required for a healthy child…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:07 amIcy, #11.
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:07 amBarack was born 6 months after his parents got married, and 8 months (+ one week) after his mother turned 18. So, she was already pregnant when she got married, and it’s possible that she was still 17 when she got pregnant.
Not much different from what is happening with Bristol Palin right now, is it?
What has Obama’s dead Mom got to do with this? I am beginning to lose respect for you. Besides, she is not running to be anyone’s VP. You know why? Becuase she is dead! What happened to your respect for the dead? How much lower can you stoop?
If we were to match the Dems, I would wager a great deal.
The point he was making is that Obama’s mother is saintly, while young Miss Bristol is – while being under nearly identical circumstances – is being attacked and vilified.
It is a fair point.
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:10 amNikolay, let’s see if this helps. Parents who profess strong moral values attempt to instill those values in their children. However, because they are loving parents in a healthy relationship, they don’t use brain-washing, behavior mod., or oppressively controlling techniques to achieve this. They use a radical old idea sometimes called “loving and consistent instruction.”
Advantage: their children grow up happy, healthy, and appropriately independent – and usually share their parent’s values.
Disadvantage: their children are not robots and are still subject to peer pressure, temptation, and media influences. That means that sometimes the children of pro-life parents sometimes also have personal moral failings… just like all the rest of us who occasionally act contrary to our own deeply held beliefs.
I hope this clears that up for you.
Don (7a2e42) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:11 amOh please! [Deleted by DRJ for offensive content] and if they were democrats you right wing wacko’s would be singing a different tune!Have you seen Palines husband?A Bubba to the bone! Thank God McCain will loose and Obama and a real V.P. like Biden who actually has experience will be in charge of the government in January.
RONNIE (db2c54) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:12 amUh oh, JOHN’S little brother RONNIE is online now.
Don (676c3f) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:15 amRonnie, would you care to meet somewhere so we might discuss your views like gentlemen?
Specificly, at 20 paces?
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:16 amO! is not qualified to be president and was never properly vetted by the MSM or the democratic party primary voters. Indeed, O! is less qualified to be President than Palin, he has less accomplishments in life and less experience and his personal history has never been properly explored or investigated. Here is why:
* He was an affirmative action admission at Harvard law (he has not released his college grades, LSAT score, or law school grades yet – which indicates that he was not a stellar student that had the grades to get into Harvard absent affirmative action);
* He was an affirmative action pick onto the law review (again, he did not grade-on or write-on to law review so he could only get on to law review through some kind of affirmative action);
* He has not accomplished anything as an elected official (name one important piece of legislation he has authored);
* He’s written no published articles to demonstrate academic ability;
* He admits in his books that he purposefully sought out Marxist mentors and teachers in college, indeed one of his major mentors in life was an avid Marxist.
* he’s done nothing courageous in his life, not even taking a courageous stance on any legislation (indeed, he voted “present” on almost all controversial bills in the IL state senate);
* he’s never sacrificed anything for any cause;
* he’s never accomplished anything outside of elected office.
* the man is as empty a suit as exists, with no real proof of intellectual bona fides nor even a consistent set of policy ideas (he switches his stances 180 degrees within weeks of taking a stance based on polls).
* He went to a church for 20 years where hatred of white people was routinely preached and hatred of America was routinely preached.
* he worked closely with and was friends with an admitted and unrepentant domestic terrorist – Bill Ayers (and others);
* he voted against criminalizing the killing of babies that were born alive when he was in the Illinois State Senate;
* He has a shady financial relationship with convicted felon Tony Rezko.
What exactly is it about this admitted cocaine dealer that the left finds so great?
Great Banana (e66874) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:17 amNRLC Mission Statement says that “The ultimate goal of the National Right to Life Committee is to restore legal protection to innocent human life”. They make it clear that “human life” includes fetuses.
Nikolay (179e24) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:20 amYou can argue all you want about federalism and the politics of this, but from the moral point of view of pro-lifers abortion is murder (or is not?), and I can’t understand how can you praise someone for “making the right decision not to commit a murder”.
Rhodes Scholar Ronnie checks in. Would love to see Ronnie step to “Paline’s [sic] husband” and call him a Bubba to his face. The results would be amusing. Hey Ronnie do you really think McCain is going to loose or do you think he’s going to tight?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:21 amWow, Nikolay. Why not make a little effort here to understand someone else’s point of view?
Yeah, lots of pro-lifers like myself believe that abortion is not only immoral but that it should also be illegal. After all, if we’re talking about killing a child here, is that so unreasonable?
On the other hand, contrary to the depictions of pro-lifers that you seem to have imbibed from NARAL, we’re not the tyrants who habitually force everybody to do what we want. (ie. if you don’t want the baby, feel free to let someone else raise it!) We also happen to live in a world in which, for the last 35 years everything has been stacked against us. The whole country has gone, legally, pro-choice. So if we know someone who is in a very difficult pregnancy and still makes the *right* choice, we’re pretty happy about it!
CLUE… just because a person is pro-life doesn’t mean that it’s easy to do the right thing!
Don (7b3bdd) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:29 am“Justice Scalia has said repeatedly that there is no doubt that Abortion aught be legal. The issue is with the decision making it a federal, not state, issue.”
He’s said states should have the right to decide, but he hasn’t said that he thinks abortion should be legal. I’m fairly sure he doesn’t. But he also thinks his personal opinions on the issue don’t matter.
Patterico (02db65) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:32 amCan anyone other than Levi speak “Stupid”? Someone needs to translate the fact to the refuse of the Democrat party like RONNIE, that Mr. Palin is a Democrat.
PCD (5c49b0) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:45 amLet me help you out there, Nikolay. Is abortion currently legal? Was it in the realm of possibility that Bristol Palin could have opted to have an abortion? Yes and yes. therefore, Bristol had a choice and her parents are expressing their pride at her not taking the easy, life squelching way out. It’s quite simple, really.
Palin’s position and the current state of affairs are not the same thing, and I think she’s well aware of that.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:49 amBarbara Billingsley might be able to handle that job. Excuse me, stewardess. I speak stupid.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:50 am#57
The point he was making is that Obama’s mother is saintly, while young Miss Bristol is – while being under nearly identical circumstances – is being attacked and vilified.
It is a fair point.
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:51 amI disagree Scott. Obama himself has come to the rescue of the Palins. Calling the matter “Off-limits”. He has also drawn a comparison with his late Mom, saying she had him when she was about 18. What was the point in bringing her up again as if to use as a rebuttal. Let the poor woman rest in peace. It would be fair if Obama had come out to try to use this against Palin. But he didn’t.
This is not the position any responsible family would like to find itself. But things happen. I want to congratulate Bristol for her courage. Deciding to keep the pregnancy, knowing the kind of fire it could bring to her family says a lot about her. Like Obama’s Mother, who knows who that child in the womb will be. Just think, would there have been a “Barack Obama” if his Mum had, in a bid to avoid the shame, aborted the pregnancy? Today’s shame could be tomorrow’s glory.
#67
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:57 amthat Mr. Palin is a Democrat.
Mr Palin is a Democrat? SHOCKA!
Actually, I recently listened to a 2006 discussion between Justice Scalia and Justice Bryer in which I am quite certain he stated that there was little doubt that the framers of the constitution never intended for abortion to be illegal. While he himself may not like it, the man Scalia seems to be suggests he therefore does not think Abortion should be illegal.
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:02 am71, amazing things you can learn if you can put aside your BDS and actually read things.
Oiram was going to try to smear Mr. Palin as an Oil Man, but Mr. Palin being only a roughneck (drilling rig grunt for you libs who are too arrogant to learn anything), shortcircuited that smear.
PCD (5c49b0) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:06 amHe was saying that the Supreme Court will never rule, as a Constitutional matter, that abortion is illegal. At most, the Court could say that it is up to the states, which could make it illegal.
His point is that overruling Roe would not make abortion illegal. It would just enable the states to pass laws making it illegal.
I am quite sure Justice Scalia personally thinks abortion is horrible and would outlaw it in most cases as a voter.
Patterico (cc3b34) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:08 amAh RONNIE—I’ve checked with one of my Alaskan friends who lives about 25 miles down the road from Wasilla (yes, he lives in the town of “Willow”). Todd Palin in fact is “blue collar to the bone”. He’s also part (at least 1/4) Native American. And he’s a long time member of the United Steelworkers
I thought the liberals (I assume you’re one and not just a simple moron) liked, cared about and supported blue collar workers, union members and Native Americans. Didn’t you get the memo?
In any event my Alaskan friend reports that this particular “Bubba”, to use MORONNIE’s term, is one of the world’s nicest guys.
Mike Myers (31af82) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:13 amI’m sure that 95% of pro-choice people abhor abortion on a personal level and feel good about someone choosing not to have an abortion. They want to keep it legal because it’s lesser of two evils. BTW, this obvious fact doesn’t prevent Republicans from all the posturing, painting Democrats as “party of Death” etc.
It’s not easy to abstain from killing an innocent human child? Because of the secularist culture?
…That’s a larger question, but all this pro-life discourse is just baffling to me. Why can’t you accept the fact that you’re fighting the loosing battle and the legal goal of outlawing abortion won’t ever be reached, or the fact that ever achieving it would mean instant political death of the whole pro-life movement? It’s easy to argue about abortion=murder when it’s just arguing, but dealing with all the women dying from the illegal abortions would be too much of a shock for a nation to vote for pro-lifers ever again.
Nikolay (179e24) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:15 amWhy not focus on some real pro-life action, which can’t be effective if you demonize pro-choicers? In fact, one of the best things to do would be to cooperate with doctors and abortionists in convincing women not to abort their children — I’m sure most of them hate the thing and would rather not do it. That is, if you really see abortion as a moral issue, not a political one.
I am heartsick over the comments I have read over the past 24 hours on the web. I cannot believe that my fellow countrymen would behave in this manner.
Do the Democrats really want to go there? Assume Obama wins… Can we follow his two daughters closely, and criticize their mistakes, make them public, discuss them at length? Discuss how this reflects on the Obama’s parenting skills and the impact of Michelle Obama decision to work outside the home? Discuss how the child’s mistakes should be reflected in our public policy (ie abstinence education?)
Also, I have to say, I cannot believe feminist / democrat women are now lecturing us on how women should stay at home with the kids.
What is to become of us?
Lily (029c82) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:19 amJudging by the criticism directed at Sarah Palin for choosing to have Trig, perhaps it’s not as easy as you’d make it seem.
No, that’s silly and it infers that empty talking heads actually matter to such a woman. I’m sure it was easy for her and I’m also sure she’s utterly repulsed by the jackals who suggest she should have killed her Downs baby.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:21 amMr. Palin is an independent (afaik)
love: BO’s mom was pregnant at 17, and pregnant before she was married…just like Bristol; that is the point.
BO’s ‘defense’ of the Palins (24 hours after the fact) was not much of one and didn’t actually stop anything.
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:22 amThis woman (Gov. Palin) can’t seem to manage her own house. She has a pregnant teenage daughter, and another baby with special needs I guess she will be ignoring to run for VP. If she can’t manage her own household, how can she manage a country? This is not to say that women can’t do both, (I’m a working mom too) but it doesn’t appear that she’s doing a good job at doing both things. To say it’s off the table is to ignore her judgment and capabilities as a person. No one wants to see a young woman in a difficult situation attacked by the media, and now like it or not, Bristol will be the center of controversy during a very difficult time in her life. So this is not a judgment of her, but I think it is a fair question to ask our selves is this the image we want for America. Are our standards really this low? As Vice President, the world will look to them as examples of American life and family values. What does this say to the world? Is this really the best image America has to offer?
I think this also brings in McCain’s decision making ability by picking her as his running mate. The first time she appeared Bristol was covered up by a blanket and her younger brother. This tells me someone was trying to hide something. Hmm?
McCain wants to compare Obama to Paris Hilton and Spears. He’s got Hollywood values, well tell me Mr. Republican, Mr. Family Values, what do you call this situation? McCain who cheated on his wife and now a mother who is in the middle of a family crisis running as VP. What a contradiction? So what’s next Senator McCain, K-Fed,to be named your Secretary of Defense?
Bpace (3b61cd) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:24 amI continued to be amazed at the hypocrisy of the dems who are all about keeping parents out of the decisions of their kids over sex, contraception and abortion. Contraception handed out in school, no parental notification of abortion but parental permission is required to give a student an aspirin.
Now, because Palin is a prolife Republican, they somehow heel it is appropriate to junk their views and pull Sarah right into what they normally would view as Bristol’s own decision. Blazing hypocrisy. I also wonder how many of them writing these stupid comments have their own kids. She can’t control her own kids!!! Oh noes!! That’s never happened before. Nobody should ever trust their own kids, right, which is exactly why democrats want to provide free contraception and abortion on demand without parental notification to teenagers.
The logic, just like the wheels on the bus, goes round and round. D’oh!
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:25 am#73
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:26 amStop with the rambling and answer the simple question. Is Mr Palin a Democrat as you allege in your comment number 67? Are you just making stuff up?
People like Bpace help, don’t hurt, the McCain-Palin ticket. Posts like that reveal the sexist elitism just under the surface of so-called liberals.
It doesn’t matter that there are many, many liberals with good heart and decency. Folks like Bpace drown them out. Look at the MSM right now.
My brother told me that the nutty left would not be able to help themselves—they would have to be nasty and snide and reveal their true natures. He was right, I think.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:29 amHow is she not managing her household? Or do you mean her daughter’s uterus and her son’s chromosomes? Did you not see her entire family with on on that stage in Ohio?
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:30 am“one of the best things to do would be to cooperate with doctors and abortionists in convincing women not to abort their children”
Nikolay – Do you know if Planned Parenthood allows any adoption counseling in their abortion mills?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:30 amhere
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:35 amdaleyrocks, according to the Feminist Womens Health Center, people who do such things are fakes and you should beware. Abortion is the only reasonable choice.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:38 amPeople like bpace should have to rent oxygen.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:38 amAccording to the National Abortion Federation, they’re also liars.
Pro-choice is not about choice, it’s about abortion. If you do not offer abortions, you are not a “real” pregnancy clinic.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:41 amThe absolute blatant hypocrisy being expressed that somehow Governor Palin is an unfit mother because of her desire to pursue professional goals is beyond stunning. Palin’s detractors are clucking their tongues at her allegedly out of control household of turmoil out of this new found concern about the well-being of her family and her need to play her proper traditional role. I’d love to see even the slightest level of concern for out of wedlock births in poor urban communities that extends to anything beyond showing girls the door to Planned Parenthood.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:42 amAs my late, great, accomplished father used to say: “It’s impossible to be a human being and not be a hypocrite”.
C. Norris (1b24a9) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:43 am“one of the best things to do would be to cooperate with doctors and abortionists in convincing women not to abort their children” (Nickolay)
I’ve made 4 contributions this year to a crisis pregnancy clinic – and I’ve been personally involved in assisting 2 young women who were very challenged to keep and care for their babies. So how about you, Nikolay? Are you all talk? Or do you really mean it when you say that most “pro-choice” people would really rather not see people choose abortion?
Where I live the vast majority of people are pro-choice, so I have no shortage of conversations on that topic. Most of those who venture an opinion have zero concern about which choice is made. They consider the baby to be nothing. If anything, they think that getting rid of the little blob of tissue is better for the planet.
Perhaps life decisions are simpler for people who view other human beings as things.
Don (e83fa3) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:45 amlove2008 –
#11 – Icy Truth: Barack was born 6 months after his parents got married, and 8 months (+ one week) after his mother turned 18. So, she was already pregnant when she got married, and it’s possible that she was still 17 when she got pregnant. Not much different from what is happening with Bristol Palin right now, is it?
#56 – love2008: What has Obama’s dead Mom got to do with this? I am beginning to lose respect for you. Besides, she is not running to be anyone’s VP. You know why? Becuase she is dead! What happened to your respect for the dead? How much lower can you stoop?
#57 – Scott Jacobs: The point he was making is that Obama’s mother is saintly, while young Miss Bristol is – while being under nearly identical circumstances – is being attacked and vilified. It is a fair point.
— Scott is exactly right. And to your point, love, Bristol Palin is not running to be anyone’s VP either. I AM NOT ATTACKING BARACK OBAMA’S DEAD MOTHER. I am attacking the hypocrisy being displayed by the supporters of a candidate who himself was born, as Scott wrote, “under nearly identical circumstances”.
#70 – love2008: Obama himself has come to the rescue of the Palins. Calling the matter “Off-limits”.
— And yet, here you are, NOT letting the matter drop.
He has also drawn a comparison with his late Mom, saying she had him when she was about 18. What was the point in bringing her up again as if to use as a rebuttal. Let the poor woman rest in peace.
— Oh, I see now. It’s all so clear! What was I thinking? If the Messiah points it out, he is honoring his mother’s memory; but if I dare to do the exact same thing, in the exact same context, I am a blasphemer who is somehow sullying the memory of the Chosen One’s mater. If you want to accuse me of something, accuse me of repeating Barack Obama’s rebuttal to the news media; to assert that I used it for any other purpose is patently false.
It would be fair if Obama had come out to try to use this against Palin. But he didn’t.
— Why would that have been fair?
This is not the position any responsible family would like to find itself. But things happen. I want to congratulate Bristol for her courage. Deciding to keep the pregnancy, knowing the kind of fire it could bring to her family says a lot about her.
— What kind of fire would that be? People telling her, “It’s better to kill it now because otherwise it, and you, will be guaranteed a horrible life”?
Like Obama’s Mother, who knows who that child in the womb will be. Just think, would there have been a “Barack Obama” if his Mum had, in a bid to avoid the shame, aborted the pregnancy? Today’s shame could be tomorrow’s glory.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:52 am— By this point in reading my post are you starting to get the impression that we are on the same side regarding this issue? And yet, that didn’t stop you from trying to manufacture a point of contention and filling yourself up with righteous indignation anyway.
Pablo – I think Nikolay will hear a big popping sound when he pulls his head out of his ass.
He probably won’t understand that either.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:52 amTodd Palin is registered to vote as an independent (“undeclared” is what they print on the voter registration cards these days; I know ’cause I am one).
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:55 amTo Tom, an Obama supporter,
Abstinence only education is useless? First, it assumes that children cannot exercise self control, the little animals )by your standards, perhaps projection?). It is infinitely more difficult with the left and its acolytes innundating the airways and print media with sexual content and at least incidently encouraging activities for which they are ill prepared and not ready for the possible consequences.
There is parental guidence,ample information on line, and in the media on how to protect yourself if you choose to indulge. BTW, school taught sex ed has been available for decades. During that time, teen prenancy and STDs continued to rise apace. If I recall correctly, In recent years, with abstinence thrown into the mix there has been a decline in both.
Wayne J. Roques (bbe174) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:57 amBelieve it, sister. Welcome to the camp of the bitter and cynical.
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 8:59 amLet’s see, the democrats are holding Sarah Palin responsible for her husband’s driving record more than 20 years ago, her daughter’s pregnancy, man-made global warming, and I’m sure I’m leaving some other things out. Does that mean if Michelle Obama had been a better wife that Barack would not have hung our with lifelong American terrorist, America hating racist preachers, corrupt convicted felons, Israel hating Islamic fanatics and assorted other folks in the neighborhood?
If we need to vet Sarah Palin more than she’s already been vetted, can we FINALLY, FINALLY, vet Barack Obama?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:00 am#80 – Bpace
This woman (Gov. Palin) can’t seem to manage her own house.
— Someone could probably write a psychological paper on why you wrote that sentence the way that you did.
She has a pregnant teenage daughter, and another baby with special needs I guess she will be ignoring to run for VP.
— You guess wrong. Ya know, it’s sad to see a woman who has such a low opinion on the abilities of women.
If she can’t manage her own household, how can she manage a country? This is not to say that women can’t do both, (I’m a working mom too) but it doesn’t appear that she’s doing a good job at doing both things.
— Since you manage a problem-free household, perhaps you should write a guide for the rest of the world.
To say it’s off the table is to ignore her judgment and capabilities as a person.
— And since it was Barack Obama who said that it was off the table, you will not be voting for him; correct?
No one wants to see a young woman in a difficult situation attacked by the media, and now like it or not, Bristol will be the center of controversy during a very difficult time in her life. So this is not a judgment of her, but I think it is a fair question to ask our selves is this the image we want for America. Are our standards really this low?
— Our standards ARE really this low, because we DO allow the media to engage in these unbridled attacks. Perhaps you could include a slam on the media in your book.
As Vice President, the world will look to them as examples of American life and family values. What does this say to the world? Is this really the best image America has to offer?
— You didn’t vote for Clinton either; did you?
I think this also brings in McCain’s decision making ability by picking her as his running mate. The first time she appeared Bristol was covered up by a blanket and her younger brother. This tells me someone was trying to hide something. Hmm?
— Something that was none of your fucking business. Hmm?
McCain wants to compare Obama to Paris Hilton and Spears. He’s got Hollywood values,
— Something that McCain has never said, but now YOU have. Congratulations.
well tell me Mr. Republican, Mr. Family Values, what do you call this situation? McCain who cheated on his wife and now a mother who is in the middle of a family crisis running as VP. What a contradiction? So what’s next Senator McCain, K-Fed,to be named your Secretary of Defense?
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:09 am— And yet, we don’t go on and on about Obama’s drug use, or his being a smoker after he had children . . . except for at times like this, when it becomes necessary to point out your total immersion in hypocrisy.
82, Lovey, since you are internet search challenged, try this: Palin and Son Not Republicans
This was linked to by Drudge who said they were Democrats, but BDS Democrats like you don’t read Drudge.
PCD (5c49b0) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:16 amThe first I saw of Todd Palin’s political affiliation was at Politico:
Google-Fu (822e97) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:17 amhttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12989.html
Does abstinance work?
Well, if you don’t participate in sexual activities, you don’t get pregnant – except off of those damn toilet seats.
Has sex-ed been effective?
It seems to me, as one who grew up in the 40’s & 50’s, that the incidence of teen-age pregnancy was a lot lower then than it is today, after 50-yrs of sex-ed.
Also, the incidence of single-motherhood has been a great negative to society.
More Single-parenthood = More Poverty –
to say nothing of the other problems it presents for the general well-being of society.
And finally, as I can’t say it elsewhere:
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:31 amBeldar, that was one of the finest things that I remember seeing flow from your pen!
Icy Truth, I’m not the one running for office. I demand the best from our leaders and you should too. Unlike Clinton or Obama, which were chosen by the people, McCain chose Palin, over other perhaps more qualified candidates to sure up his misguided base. And if it is ture that he knew all of her issues when chosen, then I have to question his ability to make decisions. Bristol’s pregrancy is all of our business, as in my opinion she is a shining example of the Republicans failed policies on sex education. It was McCain’s commerical that liken Obama to Hilton and Spears, making character an issue. The Republican’s have over and over again brought the private domain into the public spotlight. Now they don’t want to dance around their most beloved issue, Family Values. I respect Obama for not going after Bristol as a political candidate , but I think we as voters should be talking about this issue.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Bpace (3b61cd) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:34 amI am very troubled by the latest developments related especially with Paulin’s teen pregnancy. Despite the fact that no one in the campaign acknowledges it publicly, this is a very sticky issue for many conservative and independents.
independent (ac97ce) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:36 amI am even more troubled by the positions this religious leaders have taken than Paulin’s teen pregnancy itself!
They would only tarnish the maverick and independent stature for McCain by shilling too hard for Paulin’s poor parenting record.
Paulin and these evangelicals are supposed to represent the new moral values for this country and the young generation. Instead the republican change theme becomes more like an abdication from the values that guided this party for decades.
Just remember the Lynn Spears teen pregnancy outrage or how babies were removed from teen FLDS members just some months ago.
Everyone was up in arms condemning those immoral acts, but today suddenly is not just OK, but also encouraged by the very same fanatical clergy.
I am puzzled by the judgment and values of this kind of leaders and I definitely don’t want them as spiritual mentors or examples for my daughter.
I hope you join me in and help out to find a replacement for the VP slot while the convention is still ongoing:
http://www.PetitionToReplacePaulin.org
As for Obama he is a loser if he is not hitting her for being a lame parent.
“Bristol’s pregrancy is all of our business”
I thought democrats were all about privacy of the womb.
Bristol is not running for office.
Why is a legal minor an issue again?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:38 amYou know, I’m starting to get really angry. REALLY ANGRY. And I may do something crazy like donate to McCain’s campaign on behalf of all working women (and I am not a Republican). Hey, I may even walk a precint for Palin (and her running mate). I’ve never done anything like that before.
Lily (029c82) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:38 amIf the Christian Evangelicals want to force politics into the womb of every woman, they can’t claim privacy when it suites them. Bristol Palin’s situation should be part of this election. It is an indictment of the head-in-the-sand policies that the Christian right has been shoving down the throat of the American people for the last 8 years.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:38 amCool, a fake concern troll.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:40 amMcCain chose Palin, over other perhaps more qualified candidates to sure up his misguided base.
Wow what a snobbish assessment of those with whom you disagree.
Bristol’s pregrancy [sic] is all of our business
That would make a really kick-ass campaign slogan! You should suggest it to the Obama campaign and see how it plays out!
The Republican’s [sic] have over and over again brought the private domain into the public spotlight.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:41 amSo coming from someone who demands that a 17 year old’s pregnancy is “everyone’s business”, I assume you have a detailed laundry list to back up this claim.
Independant (poster #104). I believe her name if Palin. I love, love, love that you have started a website with a misspelled name!
Lily (029c82) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:41 amLook at all the hypocritcal Democrats. Hands off of Chelsea and Amy Carter, but open season on the Palin girls.
You people are pond scum.
PCD (5c49b0) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:42 am“If the Christian Evangelicals want to force politics into the womb of every woman”
James – Can you give me some examples of this actually happening?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:42 amHey independent if you want your point of view to be taken seriously, you should maybe start by spelling the name of the VP candidate correctly?
James learn to spell and (suites?) and then go back to entry level “sanctimonious metaphor class” and study the syllabus real hard-like.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:43 am“And if it is ture…”
First sign of a Trollbot outbreak – misspelling and poor grammar.
“Bristol’s pregrancy is all of our business…”
I agree that her pregrancy is our business, and now we can proceed to the full investigation of Obama’s mother’s decision to become pregrant before marriage. Can we assume that you’ll be leading the charge on this one?
“It was McCain’s commerical that liken…”
This is getting ridiculous – tell the truth, are you still in the 6th grade, or just stuck in remedial education? I’d ask your parents to apply for a tax refund, they’re not getting their money’s worth at this point.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:43 amWell, the last time I checked the GOP was interested in Eliminating Abortion and still in favor of making homosexuals second class citizens.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:44 amThey are also only interested in funding “abstinence only” sex education.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:45 amNo one here is attacking Bristol Palin. Poor girl has been pushed into the spot light by her mother’s choice to run for VP. But what we are questioning is McCain’s decision to make her his VP chose, the Right’s hypocritic stands now on Family Values, and a to a lesser extend the rights failed policies regarding sex education.
Bpace (3b61cd) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:47 amI likens this statement a lot, it’s full of pregrant foreboding:
“I am even more troubled…”
Judging by your incomprehensible post, I’d say you were quite troubled already – did your supply of Ritalin expire yesterday?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:48 amYou mean like Clinton did in 1996?
Michael Ejercito (a757fd) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:48 amBristol’s mother didn’t push her into the news, bpace. Your freaky friends did that with their reprehensible rumormongering about Trig Palin.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:48 am“I agree that her pregrancy is our business, and now we can proceed to the full investigation of Obama’s mother’s decision to become pregrant before marriage. Can we assume that you’ll be leading the charge on this one?”
If Obama had ANYTHING to do with his own conception then sure!
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:49 amIf The One was serious about squelching this firestorm that his supporters are stoking,
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:49 amhe would denounce them by name,
not issue some weasel-like statement that is so typical of what passes for back-bone in the U.S.Senate.
“…and a to a lesser extend the rights failed policies regarding sex education.”
You talk about education as if you’re actually received it in your lifetime – but when you become capable of typing a complete sentence without the misspelling and grammatical errors of a child, please do get back to us. Okay, sweetheart?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:50 amAmusingly, the Dems did exactly the same thing regarding Sen. Obama…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:51 amAlaska has comprehensive sex education, and it apparently failed. What say you now?
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:52 amGood lord Bpace, will you please repeat 6th grade if you want your point of view to be taken the least bit seriously.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:52 am“If Obama had ANYTHING to do with his own conception then sure!”
I liken how you use CAPS to emphasize your devastating repartee – but you can’t have it both ways. If Palin is to be interrogated on how this could happen, we should delve into Obama’s family life and values to determine how such a shameful action could have possibly occurred. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander – get used to it.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:53 amAddendum to #125: The right’s policies had nothing to do with this, as they were and are not in effect. This heppened under the left’s policies. Still want to bark up that tree, bpace?
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:53 amThese Trolls are Super – Edumacated!
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:55 amJust writing so all you back wood conservatives can understand me. I’m surprised you get internet where you live. So tell me, are you all still sharing a computer with your cousin, I mean wife, I mean cousin.
Bpace (3b61cd) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:58 amI guess they do a poor job of teaching us how to spell at Harvard.
A question…
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:58 amIs anyone else starting to see, in this developing shit-storm, the same thing that happened in MN during the Wellstone Memorial Service?
The Left has this innate ability to go so overboard, as to turn almost all of the erstwhile supporters against them.
What sickness possesses such people?
Haha you knew it was only a matter of time before little bpace would degenerate into the never-get-old “tantrum style.” Throw in a reference to trailer parks while you’re at it just for good measure. You wouldn’t know how to find Harvard University on a map, junior. Or maybe you have the new Barack Obama Professorship at the law school?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:02 am“Well, the last time I checked the GOP was interested in Eliminating Abortion”
James – That may well be several steps down the road, but probably unlikely, doncha think?
Meanwhile, are you getting a thrill running up your leg peering into the vaginas of Sarah and Bristol Palin?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:03 amNikolay –
From Sarah & Todd Palin’s press release: “We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby”
Nikolay: Can somebody explain to me how can a pro-life politician say something like this? Is it not a pro-life position that there should be no decision-making at all in this situation?
— No, simpleton.
Is it not the same as saying “we’re proud of Bristol’s decision not to engage in a slaughter of the innocent human being”? I mean, pro-lifers see abortion as just that.
— That’s partially correct.
Doesn’t this statement prove that Palin’s pro-life position is just a political posturing?
— Because of the possibility that they would have allowed Bristol to have an abortion if that had been her decision? 1) They raised her better than that. 2) You are conveniently forgetting the option of adopting out the child.
Being pro-life doesn’t mean thinking that abortion is a bad thing. If that was the case, 99% of Democratic politicians would be pro-lifers. Being pro-life means wanting to outlaw abortion.
— And the reason why pro-lifers want to ‘outlaw’ abortion is something other than “thinking that abortion is a bad thing”?
How can Sarah Palin commend someone for making a right choice when it’s her political position that there should no be such choice at all? I honestly don’t understand this.
— Then pay attention: it is the position of people that consider themselves pro-life that there is always a choice of either keeping the child OR (the “or” part denotes a choice; here it comes) putting the child up for adoption.
There’s a number of pro-lifers who compared Roe vs. Wade to Holocaust. Would someone in their right mind commend someone for “the right choice of abstaining from slaughtering Jews”?
— I know this is becoming redundant, but so are your questions. She is choosing to keep the baby and to marry its father. You can go on and on about how she didn’t really have any choice whatsoever, but you will be lying.
OK, can you tell, what exactly does being pro-life mean? Does it mean being pro-choice?
— Reducing this to a matter of semantics, which is exactly what you are doing, is unbecoming.
You can argue all you want about federalism and the politics of this, but from the moral point of view of pro-lifers abortion is murder (or is not?), and I can’t understand how can you praise someone for “making the right decision not to commit a murder”.
— Semantics again. The moral point of view of a pro-lifer is that abortion is killing. Killing is justified when someone is threatening your life, or when that person has committed a heinous crime against someone else; otherwise, it does fit the description of murder. However, the word “murder” implies maliciousness — that the person committing the act hates the person whose life he/she is ending. In that context “murder” may be seen to be too strong of a word to use; but “killing”, in both terms of technicality and intention, still applies. They didn’t praise her for “making the right decision”; they praised her for making a good decision.
I’m sure that 95% of pro-choice people abhor abortion on a personal level and feel good about someone choosing not to have an abortion.
— I hope that you’re correct, but I don’t think the percentage is that high. 20% of all pregnancies are aborted.
They want to keep it legal because it’s lesser of two evils.
— What’s the other evil?
BTW, this obvious fact doesn’t prevent Republicans from all the posturing, painting Democrats as “party of Death” etc.
— Because it isn’t “obvious”.
all this pro-life discourse is just baffling to me. Why can’t you accept the fact that you’re fighting the loosing battle and the legal goal of outlawing abortion won’t ever be reached, or the fact that ever achieving it would mean instant political death of the whole pro-life movement?
— That’s our problem. Don’t worry your pretty little head about it.
It’s easy to argue about abortion=murder when it’s just arguing, but dealing with all the women dying from the illegal abortions would be too much of a shock for a nation to vote for pro-lifers ever again.
— For their own sake, they should CHOOSE not to do that.
Why not focus on some real pro-life action, which can’t be effective if you demonize pro-choicers? In fact, one of the best things to do would be to cooperate with doctors and abortionists in convincing women not to abort their children — I’m sure most of them hate the thing and would rather not do it.
— Where do they sell those rose-colored glasses?
That is, if you really see abortion as a moral issue, not a political one.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:04 am— It is both, OBVIOUSLY. However, you can help to de-politicize it by telling Congress to eliminate federal funding for Planned Parenthood.
Oh, BTW, Bpace…
Ever hear about Internet service via Satellite?
Of course, the evil Rupert Murdoch will read all of your emails, and sell your internet access records too.
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:05 amJack – The progtards have not figured out a way to attack Palin on issues yet so all they can do is make themselves look even more stupid by smearing her.
I love the smell of backlash in the morning!!!111!!eleventy!!
O!
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:07 amDmac,
Comparing Obama’s mother to Bristol Palin is pretty weak attempt. Obama’s grand parent and parent’s aren’t running for office.
However, as long as Michelle Obama campaigns then her values and past should be considered.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:10 amDmac,
Comparing Obama’s mother to Bristol Palin is pretty weak attempt. Obama’s grand parent and parent’s aren’t running for office.
However, as long as Michelle Obama campaigns then her values and past should be considered.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:10 amDmac…
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:12 amWell, you’ve been suitably slapped by James –
Twice!
“I guess they do a poor job of teaching us how to spell at Harvard.”
We’re doubtless impressed by your claims of superior edumacation.
“Just writing so all you back wood conservatives…”
The correct term is backwoods, not “back” and “wood.”
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:12 amdaley – And you have to roll your eyes at the lame attempts to frame their smears with “This is an important political issue that needs to be discussed” while they gleefully attempt to dismantle the reputation of an accomplished woman with a nice family. They then project this idea that somehow Palin is this firebreathing Bible thumping caricature that spends every waking hour condemning people to hell and so therefore deserves the scorn they heap upon her and her family. I enjoy watching them seethe over the fact that their lame smears gain little for their political cause, the only thing that seems to matter to them at any cost.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:12 amDmac, it might be the Harvard School of Culinary Maintenance.
Also, we had better all vote for Obama:
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20080902_Fatimah_Ali__We_need_Obama__not_4_more_years_of_George_Bush.html
There might be a race war if we don’t!
After all, the only reason a person wouldn’t vote for Senator Obama would be racism. Also, check out how awful life has become here in Amerikkka.
Eric Blair (2708f4) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:15 amYeah, AD – he really showed me, eh? Especially when we have more gems like this:
“is pretty weak attempt.”
I think what he meant to say was “is a pretty weak attempt.”
Jeez, do I have to both correct and respond to the Trolls at the same time?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:15 amOh Satellite, I get it. One day running water, the next day Satellite, I’m really happy for you. Well I’m glad I’m such an interesting character for all you. Perhaps my points are valid, since all of you have spent so much time replying to me. Well let’s consider this since I have your attention, In the United States, the teen pregnancy rate is more than nine times higher than that in the Netherlands, nearly four times higher than the rate in France, and nearly five times higher than that in Germany. For all you prolifer’s, In the United States, the teen abortion rate is nearly eight times higher than the rate in Germany, nearly seven times higher than that in the Netherlands, and nearly three times higher than the rate in France. Of those taking the promise, promoted by most of you my friends, were just as likely to have sex, as those who did not. So tell what does the rest of the world know that we don’t?
Bpace (3b61cd) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:16 am“James – That may well be several steps down the road, but probably unlikely, doncha think?”
Well if Pro-Life gets 1 or 2 more spaces in the Supreme court, then it will be reality.
“Meanwhile, are you getting a thrill running up your leg peering into the vaginas of Sarah and Bristol Palin?”
If Sarah Palin was running under a libertarian social policy, I would not care at all.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:17 amEric – the Philadelphia media is one big groupthink, clusterf**k, Obama-worshipping idiot fest that reflects the festering, diseased, one-party rule by corrupt infantile morons in that city.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:17 amJames – What does Bristol’s crotch smell like?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:19 amWhen Hunter Biden gets 1/10 the scrutiny that Bristol Palin does then maybe the media have started to do their jobs. And maybe the sun will rise in the west tomorrow.
Ken Hahn (6b4ba8) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:19 amEric, I wonder if some of these folks have ever held jobs in which you must communicate clearly and legibly in order to perform your job in an acceptable manner. I suspect they’re more likely be attempting to figure out the correct change to give back from a Big Mac and fries, but since their cash register’s down they’re asking the branch manager to help them out.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:21 amEric, I wonder if some of these folks have ever held jobs in which you must communicate clearly and legibly in order to perform your job in an acceptable manner. I suspect they’re more likely to be attempting to figure out the correct change to give back from a Big Mac and fries, but since their cash register’s down they’re asking the branch manager to help them out.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:21 amWhoops, sorry for the double posting.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:22 amJames and bpace – Are you married and/or do you have kids?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:23 amNeither is Bristol Palin. And your favored candidate has already told you that decent people do not make such attacks.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:23 am152. I’d be astonished if either of them have stopped getting carded to get into R rated movies.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:25 amIt is now up to Sarah Palin to take this issue head on … words out of her own mouth at the convention … to convince the voters that she can be an effective V.P. and that the choices her daughter made are not reflective of Palin’s politics on abstinence only, whatever they are. In other words, if she says I believe in abstinence only, even if it means there is a high probability it will fail and that children bearing children is a result that is more preferable than birth control, all will be lost.
There are people out there who right now actually believe that Palin believes that. There are also people out there that believe she can’t take care of one baby, especially a special needs baby, and on top of all that now having to help raise her granddaughter at the same time as being Vice President or even President.
I honestly hope you can do the convincing, Sarah, cause if you can’t, Obama will win this election hands down.
dianne (83bfcb) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:27 am“Well I’m glad I’m such an interesting character for all you.”
You’re only as interesting as a high school science experiment gone awry – it’s akin to examining a cage containing some kind of life form that has no apparent functions of thought or reasoning. But after you poke a stick into the cage and rattle it around a few times, you quickly lose interest after the realization that the life form contains the similar biological properties of plankton.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:27 amReally?
Even Chief Justice Rhenquist voted against the congressional attempt to make abortion illegal, and he HATED Roe v Wade… Why do you project the tendency of certain liberal judges to ignore the law in favor of their personal opinions upon those who follow precedent?
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:29 amPablo, I am starting to get disturbed by the number of times that Senator Obama needs to correct his own staff. I don’t mind the nutroots, maybe. They are certainly acting like (hat tip to “Hill Street Blues”) single helixed mutoids.
But what is the number of times that Senator Obama has had to correct or revise statements of his own staff?
Two possibilities: it is intentional (good cop/bad cop) and allows him to transmit partisan crap while appearing to be above it all…or it could be that Senator Obama is not in charge of his own staff.
Either way, it is disturbing.
Eric Blair (2708f4) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:30 amBpace:
Sure, Bpace, it’s all Harvard’s fault, not yours, that you think ourselves is written as two words (“our selves”), shore up is spelled “sure up,” true is spelled “ture,” Republicans’ is spelled “Republicans,” either likens or likened is spelled “liken,” Republicans is spelled “Republican’s,” spotlight is spelled “spot light,” hypocritical is spelled “hypocritic,” extent is spelled “extend,” Right’s is spelled “rights” (and either capitalized or not capitalized on a whim), “backwood” is spelled “back wood,” and Wayne County Community College, or whatever other crappy school will take me is spelled “Harvard.”
So which is more pathetic, your ideas or your spelling of your ideas? The mind boggles.
Xrlq (b71926) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:30 am“There are also people out there that believe she can’t take care of one baby, especially a special needs baby…”
…and those people are called sexist, ignorant pigs, Dianne. Do you happen to enjoy rooting around in the muck, perchance?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:30 amBpace…some thoughts (you’ll probably have to look up that “t” word)…
No, I get Satellite and water everyday here in the “back wood”. The big problem is cleaning up all of the dead bird carcasses that the wind-turbine chews up (you know, spotted-owls aren’t too smart – but they do taste good when roasted over old-growth redwood coals). And then, cleaning the panels of solar cells is a real pain. But, you know, that 150-year old windmill still brings water up from the well – more than enough to keep the cistern full for when the wind dies (don’t have to waste electricity from the battery bank, thank goodness).
But seriously, if we’ve had sex-ed for fifty years (which we have) why then is the teen-age pregnancy rate so much higher than it is in your sainted EU?
Could it be that those EU girls would be having more sex if they shaved more?
No, that couldn’t be it. Must be something else.
Probably something in the water?
Now, I’m not one to seriously criticize others for typo’s, for I make them all of the time – the curse of old, fat, fingers.
But, you really need to slow down and read what you are typing, and conduct a little self-editing.
No one appears to be making an educated argument when his writings are so loaded with spelling and grammatical errors (dangling participles excepted).
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:31 amHiya Dmac. I commit typographical errors, too. Everyone does. But there is a weird pattern to this, methinks.
I detest election seasons. And if I hear the word “lie” used asymmetrically one more time…
Eric Blair (2708f4) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:32 amInteresting this tremendous wave of doubt that has been raised with regard to a strong, intelligent, professional woman’s ability to handle the responsibilities of work and motherhood. I’d be curious to check the decibel level of the shrieking that you would hear were Palin on the Democrat ticket.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:32 am#144 – Perhaps my points are valid, since all of you have spent so much time replying to me.
Did you have mommy spell check for you?
Since you may have missed it at Harvard, negative attention does not equate with validity.
As an example: When you throw a tantrum at the local Wal Mart and soil yourself, store security and the police will pay attention to you. It does not mean that you have a point at all, much less one that is valid.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:32 amRepublicans-Family Values is your platform.You try to carry the banner for the perfect America.Now, when faced with what the rest of the world deals with in this century you say(please,please..don’t bring it up) If this were Obama-god forbid! We would have Limbaugh,Coulter,Fox news running all over the nation to the boys home,school,etc.Let’s face it,Palin was a quick and unvetted choice. Vetting is atleast several months. You can’t meet someone in a week and want perfection. Now all of a sudden pregnancy is cool..lmao!So it’s cool? What about the insurance of an unwed mother? What about the welfare system some people have to use to get back on there feet? You all don’t agree with ANY programs.So how is this OK now? I feel bad for the girl because this is private but I’m more pissed about your about face and “Family Values” flip flop than anything-Obama/Biden 2008
COcocure (e50a99) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:34 amEric – was that a quote from my favorite trigger happy reactionary Lt. Howard Hunter?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:35 amPablo,
I don’t have a favorite candidate. I wanted to vote for McCain! Sarah Palin might force me to hold my nose and vote for Obama.
Decent People don’t want to get into this conversation at all. Decent People believe in privacy and a woman’s right to choose. But Decent People are force to discuss private issues by people like Sarah Palin and Evangelicals who want to control Decent People’s private life. So if Sarah Palin and the GOP will swear off Decent People’s private life, I am certain that Decent People will swear off her’s!
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:35 amGood lord, was “Post on Patterico” an assignment at junior high schools throughout the country today?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:37 amWhat EuroTrash rock did “James” crawl out from under?
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:38 am#160 – To the contrary, I support Sarah Palin and John McCain. I am proud of her, but these are real world questions she has to face, the republican party has to face. Every time the democrats say this issue should be off limits, they bring more and more attention to it, and that’s just what they want.
Only Sarah Palin can bring credibility to her credentials and judgement now, and believe me I’ll be rooting for her every step of the way.
dianne (83bfcb) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:39 am#100
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:39 amYes I am “Internet Challenged”. And I am working on it. But the link you gave does not prove that Mr Palin is a Democrat. It says he is “undeclared”. How were able to transform that into “Democrat”? If you say something, be ready to provide credible links to prove it or be seen as a liar. Not saying that you are.
“Better to be internet challenged than to be fact challenged..” Chinese Proverb.
Oh come on Drew, you have to love the conspicuous “Decent People” with the capitalization flair to give it extra panache.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:40 am#165 – Thanks for pointing out what everyone already knew – that you’re for Obama and Biden. Also, you helpfully added the year, just so everyone would understand which election you were talking about. Can we use your example to highlight the thought patterns of a typical Obama/Biden supporter? Great.
If you’re going to write a nonsensical paragraph, why mess around with punctuation and spacing? Save yourself some time and just run all the letters together.
Don’t worry, it won’t alter the message.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:42 am“What EuroTrash rock did “James” crawl out from under?”
Very mature.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:42 amHow would you know what decent people deal with, James?
So, you’re not familiar with McCain’s long, long pro-life record? You, sir, are either a liar or a fool.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:43 amJames:
If by “reality” you mean “crap the Reality Based Community likes to make up,” then I suppose so. Back here in the real world (not to be confused with your “reality-based” hallucinations), there isn’t a single Justice on the court who would end abortion by judicial fiat, and there’s no reason to think President McCain would appoint the first.
Xrlq (b71926) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:44 amBut, But, Pablo….
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:45 amHe’s so Mature!
Pablo #175 – I vote for liar. There’s an epidemic of them trolling recently.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:45 amOMFG u rethugs r so RACIST! your gonna loose LOL. My BFF sez u RACIST! U wingers vote 4 McBush like RACISTS! GOP you’re RACISM is to much! LOL!!!
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:45 amObama-Biden 2008
“I don’t have a favorite candidate.”
Sure you do – it’s been obvious for quite awhile at this point.
“I wanted to vote for McCain! Sarah Palin might force me to hold my nose and vote for Obama.”
Yeah, riiiiight – so you’re saying that a farkin’ VP choice makes all the difference for you? You obviously don’t take politics seriously – tell us how many VP’s in the last quarter century have had any impact in the President’s ability to govern and/or lead. Gore? Quale? Agnew? Bush I?
You’re just a Troll masquerading as a conservative. Get out while you still have a shred of credibility intact.
BTW, I’m not even going to comment on your idiotic grammatical deficiencies – too obvious.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:46 amYou’re right, Dmac.
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:48 amMy arms are tired from grabbing all of the low-hanging fruit.
Bpace –
I’m not the one running for office. I demand the best from our leaders and you should too.
— Perfection? Saintliness? No human failings (smoking) whatsoever (past drug use)?
Unlike Clinton or Obama, which were chosen by the people, McCain chose Palin, over other perhaps more qualified candidates to sure up his misguided base.
— That’s right; there’s no primary for VP picks. Therefore they deserve more scrutiny? Or the issues regarding the ‘chosen’ candidates are diminished?
And if it is ture that he knew all of her issues when chosen, then I have to question his ability to make decisions.
— Who . . . EVER said that it’s off-limits for you to question John McCain’s ability to make decisions? That’s right; nobody.
Bristol’s pregrancy is all of our business,
— And since it was Barack Obama who said that it was off the table, you will not be voting for him; correct? [This is the second time I have asked you this question; if you respond to no other part of my post, please answer this question. AND, if your answer is that you will be voting for him, please answer this follow-up question: Why are you defying him on this issue?]
as in my opinion she is a shining example of the Republicans failed policies on sex education.
— That’s right. All of those young women that get abortions, many (most?) of them raised in liberal households . . . lack of sex education led to all of those unplanned pregnancies. Bad parenting, or, kids making poor choices despite the best in parenting AND sex education, couldn’t possibly be a factor.
It was McCain’s commerical that liken Obama to Hilton and Spears, making character an issue.
— That made Obama’s ability to lead an issue.
The Republican’s have over and over again brought the private domain into the public spotlight.
— Such as? Didn’t your English teacher ever tell you not to leave an ad hominem attack dangling?
Now they don’t want to dance around their most beloved issue, Family Values.
— That is EXACTLY correct. Nobody on our side is dancing around the issue.
I respect Obama for not going after Bristol as a political candidate , but I think we as voters should be talking about this issue.
— When he said it was off the table he meant for everyone, AND YOU KNOW IT. If it affects your personal decision that’s your problem.
No one here is attacking Bristol Palin. Poor girl has been pushed into the spot light by her mother’s choice to run for VP.
— You can diminish the glare of that spotlight by following the slogan of Fearless Leader Soros, and move on.
But what we are questioning is McCain’s decision to make her his VP chose,
— The fact that you are questioning it is fine; we did the same thing regarding Obama’s choice of Biden. The way in which you are questioning it is the problem.
the Right’s hypocritic stands now on Family Values, and a to a lesser extend the rights failed policies regarding sex education.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:48 am— Please explain what part of the stance is hypocritical? Please explain how the major factor in unplanned teen pregnancy is lack of sex education in school, and not bad parenting AND poor personal choices by teens — even those that have good parents AND access to sex education? [I know I’m repeating myself, but you did it first.]
James, please describe whatever the hell you mean by your moniker of “Decent People.” Was that the precursor to the 70’s pop group “The Village People?” Or the latter version of “Up With People?” “Lothar of the Hill People”? “Mott the Hoople?” “
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:51 amI call BS. Loudly.
itwouldbeeasierforyoutrollstojusttypebushisacriminalandaliarandsarahpalin’suterusissubjecttovettinganduntilshedenouncesherdaughterwewillcontinuetoattackherinthemostvilemanner.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:52 amJoe Biden just said the same thing: Children are absolutely off limits.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:52 amSorry about that. Hope it did not screw up the page formatting.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:53 am“I am proud of her, but these are real world questions she has to face, the republican party has to face.”
I see – so on one hand you’re “proud of her,” but in the next breath you feel as if you she must bare her soul and beg the country’s forgiveness regarding an action taken by her daughter?
You’re either lying about your political affiliation or you’re seriously in conflict with yourself regarding other issues of a more personal nature. Either way, no one cares.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:57 amWell, as far as McCain’s position on the matter, I have seen it both ways.
http://www.euthanasia.com/keyes2.html
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin465.htm
Given the fact that he was not the first choice (Huckabee) of the Christian Conservatives, I figured he was more middle of the road.
Palin not middle of the road. She can’t have her privacy and then deny it for every other American. This is an Issue until the GOP decides that it isn’t and gets out of the personal life of all Americans.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:00 amAdding to Xrlq’s #176 – GHWB gave us Souter, and Reagan gave us Sandra O. Eisenhower thought his biggest mistake was appointing Earl Warren.
The idea of choosing a President based on what their SCOTUS nominations will do seems to be a double crystal ball scenario.
First, you’re assuming a President will pick the type of SCOTUS appointment that you approve of/fear.
Second, that Justice will then behave as they were ‘supposed’ to behave. That’s something that seems to elude many of the Presidents themselves, and they made the appointment.
There’s a lot of hyperventilating going on regarding this issue. I wonder how people are so sure of the outcomes.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:00 am171, Lovey, you don’t read too well either. I said, “This was linked to by Drudge who said they were Democrats, but BDS Democrats like you don’t read Drudge.” In that, I am right. BDS Democrats like you don’t read Drudge. This weekend he had that headline link to the article I cited. He called them Democrats.
Lovey, you had a good rant going on until a fact stopped you short once again.
You may go back to trying to smear the Palins.
PCD (5c49b0) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:00 amYou can tell that it must be the first day of school in many districts around the country – the level of Trollbotting combined with excreable grammar skills suggests many school libraries are experiencing unusual volumes of usage.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:01 amJames spare us your amateurish attempt to fancy yourself some kind of principled libertarian.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:05 amJames – You fucking moron. Sarah’s privacy is not the issue. Bristol’s privacy is the issue. Get a clue!
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:06 amP – Sorry for the language.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:07 amI can’t imagine why he would say that…
I mean, there are only links between Obama and clients of Hunter Biden’s…
No reason at all for Biden to want kids to be off limits…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:07 am193. “Sarah’s privacy is not the issue. Bristol’s privacy is the issue.”
If the GOP takes Pro-life off the platform and says “reproduction is a private matter and not subject to politics” then I will leave it alone. Until then, the teen pregnancy of the VP’s daughter is fair game.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:12 amJames –
If the Christian Evangelicals want to force politics into the womb of every woman, they can’t claim privacy when it suites them.
— They don’t want to force politics into the womb.
Bristol Palin’s situation should be part of this election.
— Same question I asked the others: Obama says NO. Are you not voting for him? or just defying him?
It is an indictment of the head-in-the-sand policies that the Christian right has been shoving down the throat of the American people for the last 8 years.
— Such as?
Well, the last time I checked the GOP was interested in Eliminating Abortion and still in favor of making homosexuals second class citizens.
— Was your propeller-beanie securely attached the last time you checked? The GOP is interested in seeing Roe v. Wade overturned, and not interested in making homosexuals 2nd-class citizens.
They are also only interested in funding “abstinence only” sex education.
— Better than no funding at all, eh?
Comparing Obama’s mother to Bristol Palin is pretty weak attempt. Obama’s grand parent and parent’s aren’t running for office.
— Neither is Bristol Palin. More importantly, Obama was born under the same circumstances and look at what he has achieved! Does not Bristol’s child have the same opportunity for great things awaiting it? So why get your panties in a twist?
I wanted to vote for McCain! Sarah Palin might force me to hold my nose and vote for Obama.
— What an outright fucking Moby lie!
Decent People don’t want to get into this conversation at all. Decent People believe in privacy and a woman’s right to choose. But Decent People are force to discuss private issues by people like Sarah Palin and Evangelicals who want to control Decent People’s private life.
— Forced? If you CHOOSE to shut the fuck up, I promise never to force you to discuss it — ever again.
So if Sarah Palin and the GOP will swear off Decent People’s private life, I am certain that Decent People will swear off her’s!
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:13 am— Agreed. Except . . . you know . . . for that . . . not killing a child because that IS of public concern . . . thing.
“Until then, the teen pregnancy of the VP’s daughter is fair game.”
Until then, you are to be called Asshat Numero Uno. Sound like a fair trade – off?
We’ll just use a simple moniker like ANU from now on. Take a bow, get used to it, sounds like a keeper.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:15 amI’m sure the upper echelon of the Republican Party will bow to the demands of “Decent People” such as James ASAP now that he has openly declared his principled stand of attacking a 17 year old girl. Not only are you inarticulate and possessing grade school level writing skills, but you’re also a low class jerk, too! The whole package rolled up into one idiot!
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:16 am#188 – until the GOP decides that it isn’t and gets out of the personal life of all Americans.
It is the Obama/Biden campaign and its supporters that are making Palin’s 17 year-old daughter an issue. If you have someone else ‘victimized’ by Sarah Palin, then please bring that story forward.
Until then, the Obama/Biden campaign should stop sending its minions out to troll websites and attack a pregnant 17 year old with vicious smears.
From the comments here, it’s obvious that Barack Obama lied on television to the American people in his phony ‘restraint’ plea. The attackers here aren’t McCain voters. They’re Obama/Biden supporters engaging in political mudslinging with full approval of this disgusting smear from the top levels of the campaign, and that’s Barack Obama. A man who has been talking out of both sides of his mouth for some time now.
His supporters believe in his judgment, and I find it impossible for his supporters to go out and attack the Palin family against his stated, videotaped wishes unless there was coordination from Obama himself through the campaign staff. Otherwise, the implication would be that Obama supporters do not really believe in his judgment.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:18 amChildren of Candidates…
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:20 amWasn’t there a bit of a kerfluffel back in ’92 over Neal Bush?
Sounds like Hunter Biden is “fair game” to me.
What should be off-limits are the MINOR children of candidates, and the ADULT children who DO NOT go out on the campaign trail for their parent.
Those who are involved with the campaign, or who have business connections with the candidates, have put that cross-hair onto their own back.
Having your minor children at a campaign introduction event along with your spouse, is not involving them in the campaign – it is a photo-op!
dmac – I think you forgot that all-important “S” at the end of James’s new name.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:21 amMore James –
Palin not middle of the road.
— Who said that she was?
She can’t have her privacy and then deny it for every other American.
— She does not want to do that.
This is an Issue until the GOP decides that it isn’t and gets out of the personal life of all Americans.
— Obama said that it is not an issue, but “Fuck him!” Right? He’s just the guy you’re going to vote for; what does it matter what he actually thinks?
If the GOP takes Pro-life off the platform and says “reproduction is a private matter and not subject to politics” then I will leave it alone.
— Why do you not hold the DNC to the same standard?
Until then, the teen pregnancy of the VP’s daughter is fair game.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:22 am— Anything to smear, you mean. Any slime, any dirty trick; victory uber alles.
As a friend said: “Bristol Palin – First sexually active teen that the Libs have ever hated on.”
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:25 amI am forced to talk about reproductive ethics to battle the stupidity of the Evangelical Right. If they would STFU and stop corrupting the GOP, then I would gladly retire as well.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:25 am‘I think you forgot that all-important “S” at the end of James’s new name.’
An excellent point – from now on we’ll call the logically – challenged Troll the one, the only – ANUS.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:25 amAnd ANUS continues to prove the moniker correct, to a tee.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:26 amPROJECTION alert at 11:25…
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:26 amIf the GOP takes Pro-life off the platform and says “reproduction is a private matter and not subject to politics” then I will leave it alone.
– Why do you not hold the DNC to the same standard?
Cause the DNC pretty much does!
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:26 amANUS now stands for Asshat Numero Uno Supremo. There’s a bit of a redundancy in there, of course, but it’s an improvement, don’t you think?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:29 amGo, ANUS, GO!
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:29 amJames, NARAL consistently gives McCain a 0% score. His only break with the National Right to Life Committee concerns stem cell research and not abortion. He’s 100% with them there.
If your knowledge of McCain’s record comes from an opinion expressed by Alan Keyes in the context of a presidential primary, then you, sir, are a fool or a liar. Or both.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:30 amIf the GOP takes Pro-life off the platform and says “reproduction is a private matter and not subject to politics” then I will leave it alone. Until then, the teen pregnancy of the VP’s daughter is fair game.
Comment by James — 9/2/2008 @ 11:12 am
James – Is there no mention of choice on the democratic platform? Are you a complete retard?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:31 am“If they would STFU and stop corrupting the GOP”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:32 amSpoken like a true “Decent Person” who fears no point of view that differs from their own.
Bpace –
Of those taking the promise, promoted by most of you my friends, were just as likely to have sex, as those who did not.
— So that means that half of them did not? The chance of teen pregnancy in that group was reduced by 50%?
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:32 amHow sad is it that after a movie like Juno cleans up at the box office and DVD, today’s brain-dead trolls come here with the mindset that being pro-life is anti-choice? As in the movie, you can choose to give birth and put the child up for adoption. There is no shortage of couples who would like to adopt.
This blind spot underscores that people who call themselves “pro-choice” should always be asked “choice to do what?”
The GOP/family values hypocrisy angle is tedious. To the trolls, it is better to have no standard than to fail to live up to one.
The privacy angle is equally vacuous. There aren’t many abortions performed at home. Conversely, if a husband shoots his wife’s lover upon discovering them in bed together, it’s a public matter — not just “about sex” or something “in the privacy of the bedroom.” Until trolls get the moral seriousness to debate the personhood of the unborn, they will come off as soulless as they think a fetus is. And it’s why the pro-life movement has so many more single-issue voters than the pro-choice crowd.
Karl (f07e38) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:32 amPaging James:
From the DNC platform this year:
Yes, suggesting that abortion is a right that should be funded by the government (if a woman cannot afford this “right”) is certainly keeping things private. Tell you what, if I take some of your money and use it to buy poor people guns, would I be keeping gun rights private?
Or is government-funded abortion what you meant by “pretty much” wiggle-phrasing.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:33 amHow so? She’s having the kid and she isn’t aborting it. There’s no conflict with pro-life politics. What’s your argument? What’s your interest? And if you see fit to move into her vagina, why should anyone else’s privacy be respected?
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:33 amI am forced to talk about reproductive ethics to battle the stupidity of the Evangelical Right.
Oh, sorry, we didn’t see the AK-47s poking you in the back, held by Obama supporters.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:33 amThe world is watching as the worst that America has to offer tries to trash and tear down a family who exemplifies the best America has to offer. The upside? 40 million plus will be watching her now on Wednesday night out of curiosity to see how she responds. You can bet the Obama campaign echelon know that if it’s a great one they are finished. As a life long Scoop Jackson Democrat voting Republican for the first time in my life Sarah Palin is quite obviously a clear reminder of what a good public servant actually is. No wonder the politics of self interest are against her candidacy.
Greg Johnsen (e20f63) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:34 am211. I like the cheer. Has a packed-stadium fever pitch to it. Maybe the crown could do one of those giant card-turning displays that spells out A-N-U-S on one side and has a picture of grade school drop out James on the other.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:34 amWhat gives you the idea that he even reached the 1st grade?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:37 amANUS – speaking “tooth to prowler.”
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:38 am“Decent People don’t want to get into this conversation at all. Decent People believe in privacy and a woman’s right to choose. But Decent People are force to discuss private issues by people like Sarah Palin and Evangelicals who want to control Decent People’s private life.”
A lot of decent people are realizing that 20 million abortions a year throughout the world is the greatest genocide of all. We could well be killing the real source of Hope and Change.
Sandra Webb (e20f63) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:43 amROFLMAO
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:50 amJames:
Right. And if you take your head out of your but and say “I, James, am an incurable asshat whose opinion on every topic is worthless on a good day, and has significant negative value on a bad one,” then the rest of us will leave you alone. Until then, any aspect of your personal life we feel like harping on (or making crap up about, our choice) is fair game.
‘Cuz we all know that if a woman choose not to abort, it wasn’t really a “choice.”
Xrlq (b71926) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:51 amI am forced to talk about reproductive ethics to battle the stupidity of the Evangelical Right.
No, you’re choosing to talk about the pregnant 17 year-old daughter of a political opponent in an effort to smear her family, and eventually, her campaign.
You are not ‘fighting the good fight.’ You are disgusting in your partisan mud-slinging, and it’s all too obvious that you, along with all the other ‘sudden’ commenters, are part of a loosely organized political effort at eliminating an incredibly viable choice for political office.
A choice that embodies in action and attitude everything that your corrupt machine pretends to embody.
Sarah Palin is capable. Sarah Palin has a proven record. Sarah Palin walks the walk.
Sarah Palin is dangerous to the Democratic party.
That is why you choose to attack her through her daughter.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:51 amANUS is a mendoucheous asshat.
Racists.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:53 amANUS is now reduced to posting cut and paste jobs, in the unfortunate reality of having his own arguments Fisked thoroughly. ANUS, please keep at it, we don’t get the opportunity to see real douchebags like you every day.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:56 amJimmy Jizz –
I am forced to talk about reproductive ethics to battle the stupidity of the Evangelical Right. If they would STFU and stop corrupting the GOP, then I would gladly retire as well.
— The non-Evangelicals in the GOP have been ‘corrupted’ into going along with something that they don’t really believe, have they?
ME: Why do you not hold the DNC to the same standard?
YOU: Cause the DNC pretty much does!
— Ya know, it would be ore accurate to just say “I have not read the DNC platform”.
If the GOP takes Pro-life off the platform and says “reproduction is a private matter and not subject to politics” then I will leave it alone. Until then, the teen pregnancy of the VP’s daughter is fair game.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:00 pm— Nothing more than a variation on the “Obama’s ability to bring people together” spin. Taking pro-life off the platform means allowing the pro-choice stance on the DNC platform to be the only platform position there is; just as Obama uniting people means bringing people around to HIS leftist viewpoint, not compromising somewhere in the middle.
Not that James would provide the link that shows how badly out of context he’s taking Limbaugh’s comments on a topic he really did not want to discuss in the first instance. There’s a difference between stage moms trying to become famous through their children and the Palin family — a distinction clearly lost on James.
Karl (f07e38) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:01 pm“more accurate”
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:01 pm#227
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:02 pmYou forgot to mention;
Sarah Palin is “good looking”.
James, you realize that 16 year old Jamie Lynn Spears was living with her boyfriend and not her parents, don’t you? Or have we discovered another bit of your ignorance?
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:03 pmANUS #255:
Got links to those cut-and-paste jobs?
If you don’t provide them, that is tantamount to admitting you don’t want to be embarrassed further by having your links used against you.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:03 pmSince the Christian Right is too stupid to believe Darwin. I don’t have delusions that I will ever convince them that they are being two face hypocrites!
Perfectly good items for discussion.
1) Was Sarah Palin asleep at the wheel and ignoring her teen daughter?
2) Were the values Sarah Palin taught her daughter totally inept?
3) Maybe the GOP thinks a 17 year old girl SHOULD be having a baby?
4) Was John McCain’s vetting team completely clueless? Is he going to put the same folks in the Cabinet?
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:04 pmSince the Christian Right is too stupid to believe Darwin. I don’t have delusions that I will ever convince them that they are being two face hypocrites!
Perfectly good items for discussion.
1) Was Sarah Palin asleep at the wheel and ignoring her teen daughter?
2) Were the values Sarah Palin taught her daughter totally inept?
3) Maybe the GOP thinks a 17 year old girl SHOULD be having a baby?
4) Was John McCain’s vetting team completely clueless? Is he going to put the same folks in the Cabinet?
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:04 pmOops, ANUS #225.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:05 pmOT: I cannot recommend enough going to philly.com to just look at the banner page that’s up now. It is truly unbelievable that the Philadelphia media is touting as its lead story right now a column that threatens a “race war” if Obama is not elected.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:06 pm#233. love2008 – Are you being sexist or, as usual, making a nonsensical comment? Chances are you don’t know what you think.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:07 pmJames – do you actually believe anyone is going to entertain a moron like you who thinks that “values” are capable of being “inept?” Do you really want to keep revealing more and more of what a laughably uneducated idiot you are?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:08 pm#236
Perfectly good items for discussion.
1) Did Barack Obama lie on national television when he pretended to call off his attack dogs?
2) Is Barack Obama such an incredibly weak candidate that an all-out effort to smear the opposition must be made to distract from his disingenuous and utterly incompetent campaign?
3) Are the links between Barack Obama and unrepentant terrorist Ayers coming to fruition, and the Obama campaign as well as the DNC are in utter panic mode?
4) Was the DNC completely clueless as to the incompetence of Barack Obama, or did they just assume that he wouldn’t actually get past the corrupt Hillary machine?
5) Was the coordination of the internet attacks against the pregnant 17 year old handled by Barack Obama himself, or did he knowingly pass on the hit job to a subordinate so as to not be caught lying once again to the American people on national television?
6) Is the fact that Sarah Palin’s approval rating far exceeds that of Barack Obama a factor in the Obama/Biden campaign’s decision to orchestrate this blizzard of vitriolic and baseless smears?
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:15 pmJust for you guys, I have the 1st !!! bi-partisan slogan that everyone can agree on
Daily Ramble- Slogan
At least click once to see it 🙂 (I denounce myself)
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:17 pmOf course I knew JLS was living on her own. Her career was started and could provide for herself and her child. So the parents didn’t really have much say in what she did and when she did it.
Which makes the Palin situation even worse. Palin’s daughter was having unprotected sex when she was living at home. Sarah either didn’t know, didn’t care and didn’t do anything about it!
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:19 pmTalkin’ out his ANUS:
Since the Christian Right is too stupid to believe Darwin.
Course not. We’re not Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao or Pol Pot.
I don’t have delusions that I will ever convince them that they are being two face hypocrites!
Then why are you wasting your time?
Perfectly good items for discussion.
Says you.
1) Was Sarah Palin asleep at the wheel and ignoring her teen daughter?
Was Obama asleep at the wheel before he realized all the people he’s thrown under the bus were detrimental to his campaign?
2) Were the values Sarah Palin taught her daughter totally inept?
No…
3) Maybe the GOP thinks a 17 year old girl SHOULD be having a baby?
…because of a concept called personal responsibility…a concept your side is unfamiliar with, and regularly shirks and absolves people from.
4) Was John McCain’s vetting team completely clueless?
What, you think they didn’t already know? Everybody in Wasilla knew, and so did McCain.
Is he going to put the same folks in the Cabinet?
A cabinet full of Sarah Palins? That would be your worst nightmare.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:21 pmFor the folks who can’t seem to get the idea of what the pro-life folks believe:
We believe that biological humans should be assumed to be people.
No matter the size or age.
That’s the simplest way I can think to put it; thus, pro-lifers who are anti-abortion are not “trying to get into” anyone’s bedroom– they are simply saying that abortion is no more a private matter than, say, a husband who murders his wife. It’s just a bit less obvious because you can’t see the kid’s face.
Foxfier (15ac79) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:27 pmOf course they did. She’s a minor child and could not have been living in that situation without their consent or neglect. Lots of people have 16 year old daughters with jobs and don’t let them move in with their boyfriends. You, I say again, are either a liar or a fool. Or both.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:28 pmMore items for discussion:
7) Are the corrupt Chicago politicians scared shitless of Palin in a national position, where payback for this smear is likely?
8) Is Palin’s proven anti-corruption record too much ‘change’ for DC insiders like Biden?
9) Is Barack Obama attempting to win another election by removing the competition from the ballot? Is that the only way Barack Obama can win an election?
10) Did Barack Obama and Joe Biden take time out to give statements distancing themselves from this line of attack because they orchestrated it, or because they’re worried about blowback?
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:29 pmANUS – I actually posted the DNC platform for you. Any thoughts?
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:29 pmThat is too funny! I’d bet you believe that the world was created in 7 days and it is only 9000 years old. Have you given in and accepted that the world isn’t flat and the center of the Universe?
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:29 pmThat is too funny! I’d bet you believe that the world was created in 7 days and it is only 9000 years old. Have you given in and accepted that the world isn’t flat and the center of the Universe?
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:29 pmI wish the Harvard guy was still here. His values were much more ept.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:30 pmPalin’s daughter was having unprotected sex when she was living at home. Sarah either didn’t know, didn’t care and didn’t do anything about it!
You ever have teenagers, ANUS?
By the way, got those cut-and-paste links yet?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:31 pm“Of course they did. She’s a minor child and could not have been living in that situation without their consent or neglect. Lots of people have 16 year old daughters with jobs and don’t let them move in with their boyfriends. You, I say again, are either a liar or a fool. Or both.”
Yeah, pissing off your daughter when she is supporting you is a really good Idea. I also liked how you simply ignored the Sarah Palin is either an incompetent or negligent mother.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:32 pm“Of course they did. She’s a minor child and could not have been living in that situation without their consent or neglect. Lots of people have 16 year old daughters with jobs and don’t let them move in with their boyfriends. You, I say again, are either a liar or a fool. Or both.”
Yeah, pissing off your daughter when she is supporting you is a really good Idea. I also liked how you simply ignored the Sarah Palin is either an incompetent or negligent mother.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:32 pmI consider myself a person who identifies with the Stereotypical Right and Huckabee was absolutely not my first choice – Thompson was – but then again I’m a real person, not some strawman of James’ fevered imagination. Speaking of which, and this is for you too Lily, I hear you loud & clear, don’t any of you Democrats remember that film “The Contender”? In your celluloid fantasies, it is a sweaty lipped Republican (Gary Oldman) going after the Democrat everywoman (Joan Allen) with evil attempts to smear by any means necessary. So nice to see that you have forgotten it, as it surely will bubble up in the subconcious of Independent women voters everywhere.
rhodeymark (e86321) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:34 pmI see. So you’re saying you agree with Rush Limbaugh, then.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:35 pmJames, seriously, how old are you? If you are actually older than 15, then God help the world.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:35 pmSo you are telling me that it is really that hard to teach a 17 year old girl where babies come from? and that she should make her boyfriend wear a condom if he wants sex? Or maybe talk to her about STDs?
Sorry you can’t cover that, You shouldn’t be running the USA.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:35 pmOh, and Bristol Palin was living with her parents, not her boyfriend.
Pablo (99243e) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:36 pmSarah Palin is either an incompetent or negligent mother.
False choice. She’s neither, because Sarah Palin loves and accepts her daughter unconditionally.
How you can imply that this discredits Palin only shows your partisan overreach.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:38 pmJames – if you were lucky enough to have Sarah Palin for a mother, you might still end up gay but she would love you unconditionally. Suck on that.
rhodeymark (4f2403) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:38 pmThat is too funny! I’d bet you believe that the world was created in 7 days and it is only 9000 years old. Have you given in and accepted that the world isn’t flat and the center of the Universe?
If you weren’t so ignorant, ANUS, you’d know that everyone on that list adapted Darwin’s “survival of the fittest” for race or class to justify their massive genocides.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:39 pmSorry you can’t cover that, You shouldn’t be running the USA.
Running the USA? Even POTUS doesn’t do that.
Please, keep stepping in it.
So, by your logic, anyone who’s child disobeys them at any point in their upbringing is unfit for National office?
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:41 pmIf you consider, “success” as pregnant at 17 with no way to support herself, then Sarah Palin is an amazing mother!
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:45 pm…teach a 17 year old girl where babies come from? and that she should make her boyfriend wear a condom if he wants sex?
Reverse Causality – Since Palin’s daughter is pregnant, Palin couldn’t have taught her those things?
You don’t seem to be able to think.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:46 pmbut this occurrence does serve as another reminder of how useless abstinence-only education can be if those who do choose to have sex don’t know to use protection.
Actually, abstinence was the standard for millennia until latex condoms (and then the pill) came along. Sex education in school seemed to coincide with the rapid increase in teen pregnancy. I would say this is evidence that sex education doesn’t work. How about you ?
Dennis Prager had a hilarious interview this morning with a Swedish TV channel that was covering the RNC convention. The Swede commented on just this item. Dennis said, “What if your wife gave you a supply of condoms as you were leaving for the US and said ‘don’t have any sex with those American women while you are gone'”. What message would you take from that ?
He couldn’t stop laughing and the Swede was laughing, too.
Mike K (f89cb3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:47 pmSo you are telling me that it is really that hard to teach a 17 year old girl where babies come from? and that she should make her boyfriend wear a condom if he wants sex? Or maybe talk to her about STDs?
Nope, you’ve never had teenagers. You see, ANUS, most teens think they are indestructible…that it will never happen to them.
Most also think they know everthing. Like you.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:48 pmIf you consider, “success” as pregnant at 17
I would consider “success”, as loving others and being loved.
It’s too bad you’re not successful.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:48 pmJames, seriously, you should give up. You are possibly the stupidest individual I have ever witnessed post here, and I have suffered through pages of Levi posts. Unless my theory is correct and you are indeed just a snarky little teenage boy in which case you deserve a smidgen of sympathy for being such an idiot.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:48 pmIf you consider, “success” as pregnant at 17 with no way to support herself, then Sarah Palin is an amazing mother!
Oooo, you thought Palin would disown her daughter…like the caricature of the center-right you have in your head.
Right?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:51 pmHow many more “unknowns” do we know about Palin? This is getting uglier by the day.
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:51 pmYes, and Gov. Walter Hickel (1990-1994, IIRC), who was one of the politicians driving Alaskan statehood in the 50’s, was later a member of the AIP, because he was frozen-out of the GOP.
Not a good line of attack, Lovey.
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:58 pmTry to come up with something actually relevant, and substantial.
love that was debunked hours before you ran across it.. nice try though
Here lovey (pdf warning)
Chuck Norris (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:58 pmTHAT is supposed to be some sort of scandal ridden ugliness on Palin? That she was briefly a member of a fringe political party? What’s getting uglier, or more accurately more PATHETIC is that someone trying to dish the dirt on Palin would link to something as lame as that with the anticipation that it somehow heralds some groundbreaking bombshell about Palin. Laughable. And again, pathetic.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 12:58 pmANUS, sometimes young people make bad choices that affect the rest of their lives. Its the choices they make afterward that determines their success…how they handle the consequences of that bad choice.
My sister-in-law became pregnant while still in high school and married the father of the child. It was difficult at first, living on the public dole.
Today, she is a chemistry professor at a major Division One university, while her husband is a civil planner for a city with a population of 600,000.
The out-of-wedlock child is a straight-A student who just started college studying mechanical engineering at a school in the top three for that subject.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:04 pmAD, you beat me to it. Over at Washington Monthly they are breathing hard about the church she went to. Does anybody want to suggest how foolish they are to bring that up again ?
This is getting more amusing as they get more hysterical. First of all, you know that none of them have ever been to Alaska.
Mike K (6d4fc3) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:06 pmlove2008: come on.
That’s the best you’ve got?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:06 pmMy former partner married his girlfriend when they were both 16. He went to work for his father as a roofer but stayed in school and graduated from HS. Then he graduated from UCLA. Then he graduated from UCLA Medical School. Then he finished a surgery residency at Harbor UCLA Medical Center and is practice now.
Yup, not many choices.
Mike K (6d4fc3) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:09 pmHow do you expect to teach 17 year-olds to practice birth control if you can’t teach Democratic VP candidates like John Edwards, or major Democratic powers like Jessie jackson?
ROA (f7cdf8) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:19 pmSure if daddy has money, then everything can be ok. Are you recommending teen pregnancy as a way of life?
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:22 pmJE and JJ didn’t get elected did they?
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:23 pmJames –
1) Was Sarah Palin asleep at the wheel and ignoring her teen daughter?
— No. Also, none of your business.
2) Were the values Sarah Palin taught her daughter totally inept?
— Not at all. Kids make mistakes.
3) Maybe the GOP thinks a 17 year old girl SHOULD be having a baby?
— Not at all. And it was a stupid question to ask.
4) Was John McCain’s vetting team completely clueless? Is he going to put the same folks in the Cabinet?
— 1) No. They knew about it. 2) If by “the same folks” you mean people that are determined to do the right thing – YES.
Palin’s daughter was having unprotected sex when she was living at home. Sarah either didn’t know, didn’t care and didn’t do anything about it!
— 1) Feel free to not imply that she was having sex inside the family home. 2) What do you think the chances are that Sarah Palin either did not care to know what her daughter was doing, OR, that she knew what her daughter was doing but did not care, and therefore did nothing about it? If your answer is anything above 0% you are a liar. Obviously, she did not know; that does not mean that she does not care.
So you are telling me that it is really that hard to teach a 17 year old girl where babies come from? and that she should make her boyfriend wear a condom if he wants sex? Or maybe talk to her about STDs?
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:23 pm— 3 out of every 10 girls gets pregnant before age 20. Young people feel invincible and make stupid decisions despite the best of efforts to teach them to makes smart choices. It happens. Once it happens the question becomes: How do you deal with the consequences? In this case, the best possible response happened.
“Are you recommending teen pregnancy as a way of life?”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:28 pmAre you going to continue to reveal what a complete idiot you are every time you ask a nonsensical question that doesn’t make any sense, is completely irrelevant, and / or proves that you are a snotty brat with a deranged need to nose around other peoples’ private lives and decisions in a way that far exceeds your bogus claims that the “Religious Right” does?
James can’t possibly be serious. Check the IP, it must be a regular poster imitating a troll. As someone who is raising an obstinate male teenager, I think that Paul hit the nail on the head – not only has this guy never raised a teenager, he probably is one. Mine adds words to things I say to make himself the victim when we argue like this.
Example:
James, buddy, if you are real:
How does the DNC “pretty much” keep reproductive rights out of politics, when their party platform indicates that abortion is now a “right” and should be publicly funded with tax dollars if necessary?
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:32 pmKeep digging Lefties – I am more convinced by the moment that you will self immolate again, but this time in breathtaking fashion. Palin Malice Syndrome will turn you into expose you as quite evil cannibals. Booga booga – nobody will want to stand with you.
rhodeymark (1aaf2a) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:38 pmANUS is just displaying the typical shelf – life of primordial ooze; what a fun election this is turning out to be. These are the type of folk you only were aware of while flipping through your channels and suddenly viewing some screaming moron on a show like Springer. ANUS would be the guy throwing the chair in this scenario, of course.
BTW, Love – incredibly lame link there; your desperation is showing.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:40 pmDang – FIX THE STRIKE OR REMOVE IT PLEASE
rhodeymark (e86321) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:41 pmI like Jim Geraghty’s quote:
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:49 pm“In 72 hours, the media has subjected Bristol Palin to more scrutiny than they’ve given to Barack Obama in two years.”
– It is my business as long as the GOP continues with abstinence and pro-life mantra.
– So that means “Values” are completely irrelevant? Since regardless of what you teach them they “make mistakes” that negatively impact their life?
.
– Sarcasm is a difficult concept
– He is lucky he isn’t running against Hillary.
I didn’t say “She was having sex in the house”. I said “she was living at home”. Meaning her mother and father should have had knowledge of who she was with, where she was going and the fact that she had progressed in a relationship with a young man.
My best guess is that Sarah had no clue who her daughter was seeing and hadn’t prepared her for the consequences. Which is completely negligent. Of course, I have met people who don’t care if their kids had sex and I left the option open.
So basically, values have zero impact!
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:50 pmlove2008 –
How many more “unknowns” do we know about Palin?
— “Gimme Mick, gimme Mick
Baby’s hair, bulgin’ eyes, lips so thick
Are you woman, are you man
I’m your biggest funked-up fan
Gimme Mick, gimme Mick
Baby’s hair, bulgin’ eyes, lips so thick
Are you woman, are you man
I’m your biggest funked-up fan
So rock me and roll me ’til I’m sick.”
[Struts up and down the stage]
“Some girls want Travolta
All black and white and slick
But there’s screamin’ hunky mamas yellin’
Gimme Mick
Well my fine performance
Take my wife and all that shtick
Makes me die just ta meet ya
(Gimme Mick, gimme Mick
Baby’s hair, bulgin’ eyes, lips so thick)
Are you woman, are you man
I’m your biggest funked-up fan
So rock me and roll me ’til I’m sick
You, Mick Jagger, actually continue to perform at a concert where someone got knifed and killed during the 60’s
You, Mick Jagger, are English and go out with a model and get an incredible amount of publicity
You, Mick Jagger, don’t keep regular hours
You, Mick Jagger, have the greatest rock ‘n roll band in the history of rock ‘n roll, and you don’t even play an instrument yourself
(Rock ‘n roll, rock ‘n roll
Gimme gimme gimme rock ‘n roll)
Gimme gimme rock ‘n roll
(Gimme gimme gimme gimme)
Gimme gimme
Gimme gimme gimme gimme
Gimme Mick, gimme Mick
Baby’s hair, bulgin’ eyes, lips so thick
Are you woman, are you man
I’m your biggest funked-up fan
So rock me and roll meeee…
‘Til I’m sick [burps]-Ugh!”
— Ah, Gilda.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:54 pmNotice how this is just like my teenager example. When people make mistakes, it’s evidence that values are “completely irrelevant.” Seriously ANUS, go learn how to think.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:58 pm“So basically, values have zero impact!”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 1:58 pmPlease bottle your stupid and sell it to carnies.
Then explain to us how the DNC keeps abortion out of politics “pretty much” by favoring public funding for it.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:00 pmThank you Jack Klompus for saying it more succinctly than I …
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:01 pm284 – SARCASM!
285 – I vividly remember the terrifying conversation my parents had with me when I was 14ish. It was very simple.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:04 pmJames, does it hurt to be this stupid?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:08 pmWhile I believe that James’ dad looked forward to the day that this pelulant 14-year-old and his offspring would be leaving the nest, I am skeptical that he said “The choice is your’s!” and dubious about the terrifying pictures. Which wouldn’t have any impact on an indestructible/bullet proof teenaged boy anyway.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:09 pmSARAH PALINS LOVE FOR UNBORN BABIES IS CLEAR
IF BRISTLE WAS RAPED OR THE PREGNACY WOULD KILL HER IT WOULDNT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE SARAH PALIN WOULD STILL MAKE HER HAVE HER BABY
THIS IS REAL FAMILY VALUES
WANDA JUNE SIMMONS (d2e0cc) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:09 pmAgain, I failed to be succinct. I denounce myself.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:10 pmHave you guys checked the referral links to this post? I’d love to see from whence they came.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:10 pm“Please bottle your stupid and sell it to carnies.”
Given his posts today, I’d say he already is a Carny. Probably doing two shows daily with the Bearded Woman – as her hopelessly freakish child.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:11 pmCapslock… Cruise control to “cool”…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:14 pmi guess COVERING HER PREGNANT BELLY UP WITH HER YOUNGER BROTHER SPREAD ACROSS HER BODY AND A BLANKET UNDER HIM IS A GOOD WAY TO BE PROUD!!!! did anybody see the way she was holding the baby i even said something about it when i watched the speech. i didnt understand why she was holding the baby like that. THEN I FOUND OUT SHE WAS PREGNANT…..yea sure real proud real strong keep telling yourselves that!
christian (2f4f9d) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:17 pmI vividly remember the terrifying conversation my parents had with me when I was 14ish.
And as pointed out before, some teens think it will never happen to them. That they are indestructible. Also, racing hormones can impair good judgment.
And some don’t learn the lesson when they’re told despite terrifying leotures or the first indescretion. I knew a guy that fathered not just one, not just two, but THREE children before he was 18, all out-of-wedlock, with the same girl.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:18 pmToday I am reminded why god refuses to grant me the power to kill with a thought…
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:20 pmWhat I love is the comment that she “walks the talk” from the right wingers when all she is doing is walking it for her 17 year old daughter.
Recovering Republican (eb5c23) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:22 pm294 – I think it is fair to say that some people want to have an abortion and some people don’t. And as so many people in this forum believe that pregnancy is a private matter. The the DNC allows both groups to make a private choice. While the GOP wants to prevent those who want abortions from having them thus making pregnancy and sexuality a public matter. Which leads to this conversation.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:22 pmi didnt understand why she was holding the baby like that
Since you are an expert on the subject, christian, how would you suggest she hold him?
Tell us, what would be the correct way?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:22 pmI vividly remember the terrifying conversation my parents had with me when I was 14ish.(bold mine)
You had a terrifying conversation about sex… that would explain your attitude and lack of convictions, but only education can explain your idiocy.
Chuck Norris (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:25 pmJimJam –
It is my business as long as the GOP continues with abstinence and pro-life mantra.
— Only because you say so; not for any justifiable reason.
So that means “Values” are completely irrelevant? Since regardless of what you teach them they “make mistakes” that negatively impact their life?
— No. It means that human beings are imperfect, and that we all make mistakes. I bet even you have made one or two during your lifetime. We teach values in an attempt to minimize the number and severity of mistakes made by the next generation. Anyone that hopes to create a perfect being who will never screw-up ever is a pie-in-the-sky Utopian dreamer; in other words, a liberal. Taking into consideration the 1.2 million negative-impact mistakes made every year in this country, this is nothing.
Sarcasm is a difficult concept
— As you have demonstrated definitively. [Hint: no question mark next time.]
He is lucky he isn’t running against Hillary.
— That is a discussion to have with your people. And you will . . . on November 5th.
I didn’t say “She was having sex in the house”.
— I didn’t say that you said it.
her mother and father should have had knowledge of who she was with, where she was going and the fact that she had progressed in a relationship with a young man.
— All of which is none of your business.
My best guess is that Sarah had no clue who her daughter was seeing and hadn’t prepared her for the consequences. Which is completely negligent.
— One important word there: “guess”; and, unsurprisingly, your guess is ‘negligent parent’.
So basically, values have zero impact!
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:25 pm— That in response to me repeating the statistic of 3-in-10 teenage girls getting pregnant? Seems to me that one value, at least, has positive impact 70% of the time.
The the DNC allows both groups to make a private choice.
Well, that makes you a two-faced hypocrite, since you advocate “private choice” yet you are still talking about it.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:26 pmWell, I wonder if the newborn with Downs Syndrome would have said..Go ahead mom, run for VP with McCain, don’t worry about my special needs.
I used to live in Alaska. Sarah Pallin is Dick Cheney, with a cuter smile. It’s not about whether or not her daughter is pregnant and having the child with the redneck daddy to be, it’s about truly vetting a candidate who is one heartbeat away from the most powerful position in the world. If McCain wanted a truly appropriate christian partner, go with Huckabee. (a governor of a state that is NOT an anomaly flush with money so that everyone gets paid to live there) or if he wanted to appeal to the Hillary/woman voter, go with Olympia Snow or Kay Bailey, both (while I ideaologically disagree with them) have much more to offer the republican party given their distinctive careers in government service.
As a mother, I don’t understand for a moment, why ANY parent (male /female) would want to take on a VP of the UNITED STATES while trying to raise all those children, one with special needs.
Being a governor of a sparsely populated state with oodles of oil money is one thing…but she has nowhere near the real level of gravitas for this job. Republican or Democrat. As an American citizen, This selection is insulting on too many levels.
Melissa (435123) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:27 pm“Comment by Recovering Republican”
And yet another Moby is heard from, no doubt using an IP address already registered here. Gosh, their cleverness is almost beyond my comprehension, how do they do it?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:29 pmBottom line: whatever your political and social beliefs are, one would agree that a mother (and father) with five children, including a baby with Down Syndrome, and a pregnant teenager daughter should make i her priority (and that of her husband), to spend as much time as possible to help, support, and above all PROTECT her children.
Bristol’s parents are incredibly selfish, and are willing to destroy their children’s lives for the sake of their blind ambition!
georgeB (a49a08) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:29 pmdoh..310 (2:25 pm) was me, hadn’t changed my tag back ><
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:29 pm“Bristol’s parents are incredibly selfish, and are willing to destroy their children’s lives for the sake of their blind ambition!”
And I am thwelve years old!
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:31 pm#307 – Recovering Republican
What I love is the comment that she “walks the talk” from the right wingers when all she is doing is walking it for her 17 year old daughter.
— Is this supposed to mean anything at all?
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:31 pmMike K @ #277…
Sorry for the delay, but I actually had to go out and try to be productive…
The Left is in complete self-destruct, melt-down mode.
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:31 pmI posted earlier that this whole thing is earily like the Wellstone gathering after his death…
Half-hour later I’m listening to Rush, and he said the same thing (I hate it when he plagerises me).
This could be the match that lights the push-back such as the reaction in ’68 against the Chicago Riots.
Bristol’s parents are incredibly selfish, and are willing to destroy their children’s lives for the sake of their blind ambition!
That would make Obama a bastard natch?
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:33 pm“Go ahead mom, run for VP with McCain, don’t worry about my special needs.”
Sounds like Melissa has a few special needs of her own – needs such as getting that new IPod from her parents, and why won’t they give her the car on weekdays?
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:35 pm#315 – georgeB
Bristol’s parents are incredibly selfish, and are willing to destroy their children’s lives for the sake of their blind ambition!
— You are incredibly stupid and willing to say absolutely anything in a pathetic attempt to get your chosen candidate elected.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:37 pm“As a mother, I don’t understand for a moment, why ANY parent (male /female) would want to take on a VP…”
Melissa seems to also be experiencing cognitive dissonance here: “wait a minute, you mean she’s going to raise a family AND also be the VP of the United States? Oh…hey, MA! What does the term cognitive dissonance mean? Is that some kind of brain surgery?”
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:40 pmSounds like Melissa Has a few special needs?
What kind of feedback, intelligent comment is that.
I’m just saying the issue is less about the teen pregnancy, more about parent priorities over careers, and being truly qualified for the VP position.
I don’t have any special needs..I have a daughter of my own, but she’s on scholarship and at college and not pregnant.
Melissa (435123) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:42 pmWhat kind of feedback, intelligent comment is that. (special needs and IP bs)
I’m just saying the issue is less about the teen pregnancy, more about parent priorities over careers, and being truly qualified for the VP position.
I don’t have any special needs..I have a daughter of my own, but she’s on scholarship and at college and not pregnant.
Melissa (435123) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:43 pmI’m just saying the issue is less about the teen pregnancy, more about parent priorities over careers, and being truly qualified for the VP position.
I’ll bite: so that would make Obama a bastard no? (for not putting his family above his career and not being truly qualified for the P position).
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:45 pm#322
Did I say anything about any candidate? I couldn’t care less which idiot ends up being elected. Between McSame and Obadrama, not much to hope for.
So, back to family values 101:
georgeB (a49a08) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:46 pm1/ Thou shall protect your children
2/ Thou shall balance personal ambition with family need
etc…
So Melissa supposedly lived in Alaska, has her entire political persona bottled up into one nice neat talking point, and yet somehow manages to not know how to properly spell the woman’s name.
The trolls here are hilarious. James, despite being one of the absolute most pathetically moronic people I have ever read posts by, at least sticks it out like a good sport. Hopefully the little kid might learn a semblance of coherent, logical thought.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:47 pmSome of these others are borderline cases. georgeb has got to be a cartoon character. I liked “Harvard guy,” in that he was easy to break down and get to resort to cheap “trailer park” level insults.
I felt the same way when Obama took the nomination.
JSinAZ (d9c0ae) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:48 pmProtect them against the fact that your political opponents and detractors including members of the mainstream media are going to slime you in the most putrid and personal manner in order to forward THEIR blind, naked political ambition?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:50 pmYo Jack, Cartoon character here. Where do you stand?
georgeB (a49a08) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:50 pmDoes anyone else find Palin an egotistical maniac? How can she accept this nomination and put her poor 17 year old daughter in the spotlight. Whether you think it’s wrong or right to include children in this campaign, the reality is her pregnant daughter is being showcased on a national level. Whoever has raised a teenage daughter knows that the pressure she is putting on her is ridiculous and while I am a republican I cannot support her on this issue alone.
Kristen (e8da8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:52 pmkristen you are a f#cking idiot… please go back to dkos, thanks
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:53 pm” As an American citizen, This selection is insulting on too many levels.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:54 pmWait let me guess…Obama’s nomination was a brilliant, history making moment for our nation which moved mountains, made pant legs vibrate, brought atonement for centuries of sin and failure, altered the course of humanity, caused emus to learn the skill of flight, turned Detroit into an oasis possibly even leading to a Lions Super Bowl victory, caused Vladimir Putin and Ahmadinejad to enter a civil union together and go shopping at Pottery Barn, and finally allowed the white populations of Portland, Austin, and San Francisco to apply for and be accepted into an honorary brotherhood of racial harmony and solidarity…
#333, Lord Nazh, are you a very short man? Probably, because you are at as arrogant as you are clueless.
georgeB (a49a08) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:56 pmTroll boy, I stand against bombastic idiotic rhetoric like claiming that Palin’s nomination is “destroying her children’s lives.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:56 pmRight Kristen, you’re a Republican. Back to kos with you silly little girl.
#334. You must like to read your own BS. Hopefully, ’cause you are probably the only one understanding it.
georgeB (a49a08) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:58 pmDammit, Jack, you owe me a new keyboard.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:59 pmI vividly remember the terrifying conversation my parents had with me when I was 14ish.
Was that two or three months ago?
Seriously. They’re in such a foaming tizzy. It only highlights what they believe to be insurmountable weaknesses in their candidate, Barack Obama, which is why I’m fairly sure the Obama/Biden campaign is organizing this.
Obama knows he’s weak, too. He may be a leftist, but he’s not stupid.
Palin obviously scares these people.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 2:59 pm312 – I see no hypocrisy trashing Sarah Palin for her failed beliefs. Since she and the GOP are advocating “beliefs” as a fundamental part of their platform. If they were to remove values from their platform then I would consider it off limits. And yes, I believe that having a teen pregnancy (either a son or a daughter) is a failure of a parent.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:01 pmJack. Jack. Jack. You must be or must have been a very unattentive father. Or, hopefully, you never had children.
georgeB (a49a08) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:03 pmDo you really think Palin scares people? How much do you actually know about her other than this mess about her stupid daughter? What do we know about Palin other than she’s supposed to bring conservative women aboard this ticket? If you think this woman who can’t even run her own household is really scaring the public than you must have lived in a bubble for most of your life.
Jewel (e8da8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:03 pm#313 – Melissa
Well, I wonder if the newborn with Downs Syndrome would have said..Go ahead mom, run for VP with McCain, don’t worry about my special needs.
— Again with the – Down syndrome babies require 1000% more attention and any woman who doesn’t become a stay-at-home mom in that circumstance is being neglectful – charge. I expect YOU to embark on a national campaign of brow-beating all mothers of Down syndrome babies to forgo the workplace.
I used to live in Alaska.
— Good for you.
Sarah Pallin is Dick Cheney, with a cuter smile.
— You are a piece of work who can’t even spell her name correctly.
It’s not about whether or not her daughter is pregnant and having the child with the redneck daddy to be,
— If that is not what it’s about, then why use the “redneck” slur? You can’t even acknowledge that he’s stepping up and doing the right thing?
it’s about truly vetting a candidate who is one heartbeat away from the most powerful position in the world.
— Today’s talking point: they didn’t truly vet her. What a shock that, like most lib talking points, it is a total lie.
If McCain wanted a truly appropriate christian partner, go with Huckabee.
— And if he had gone that way, I’m sure that nobody would have brought up that joke he made about Obama in front of the NRA; right?
or if he wanted to appeal to the Hillary/woman voter, go with Olympia Snow or Kay Bailey, both (while I ideaologically disagree with them) have much more to offer the republican party given their distinctive careers in government service.
— Why don’t you worry about your own party? [Olympia Snowe? . . . the GOP would accept Lieberman before they’d accept her!]
As a mother, I don’t understand for a moment, why ANY parent (male /female) would want to take on a VP of the UNITED STATES while trying to raise all those children, one with special needs.
— “All those children”? Four? Two of whom will be old enough to leave the nest BEFORE the end of her first term? Do you want the age for presidential service raised to 50? Will you right here and now denounce the 1968 candidacy of Bobby Kennedy, whose wife was pregnant with her ELEVENTH child at the time?
Being a governor of a sparsely populated state with oodles of oil money is one thing…but she has nowhere near the real level of gravitas for this job.
— Another – Alaska isn’t a real state – slam. Pathetic.
Republican or Democrat. As an American citizen, This selection is insulting on too many levels.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:08 pm— More insulting than Jimmy Carter Running for reelection after he had fucked up the nation? Hardly. Not even close.
Is “Melissa” really “James”?
Same double-posting crap.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:10 pm#273
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:10 pmNot a good line of attack, Lovey.
Try to come up with something actually relevant, and substantial.
“Not a good line of attack”, because it makes your candidate look bad or because it is not the truth? My aim is not to attack her, but to point out that McCain was a little too hasty to pick this woman. Not even allowing her vetting to be completed. He was driven by the advantage, he did not see the risk.
Kristen #332 – How can she accept this nomination and put her poor 17 year old daughter in the spotlight.
She didn’t. Scumbag political hacks like you put Palin’s daughter in the spotlight – all so you could try and distract from your unbelievably empty suit of a candidate, Barack Obama. And at his request, as well.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:11 pmagain your fucking defending her…but what the hell do we know about her???
Jewel (e8da8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:12 pmI see no hypocrisy trashing Sarah Palin for her failed beliefs. Since she and the GOP are advocating “beliefs” as a fundamental part of their platform.
Course not. Elitist lib snobs like you never do, since you have one set of rules for yourselves and another for the rest of us that don’t fit in to your private little club.
If they were to remove values from their platform then I would consider it off limits.
So until then, you won’t do what you advocate? That is the very definition of a hypocrite.
And yes, I believe that having a teen pregnancy (either a son or a daughter) is a failure of a parent.
More elitist lib snobbery: it’s never the individual’s fault. No, it’s the parents! The laws on the books! This oppressive society! Chimpy McBushalliburton!
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:12 pmagain your fucking defending her…but what the hell do we know about her???
Jewel, we knew about her months ago…where have you been?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:15 pmok, so maybe it is the media’s fault for putting her daughter in the spotlight #346 but are you living in a fantasy. SHE SHOULD have known as a MOTHER that it would happen and i think what the girl was trying to say before is that she should have protected her daughter…especially since she wasn’t paying close enough attention before!
Jewel (e8da8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:16 pmMelissa –
I’m just saying the issue is less about the teen pregnancy, more about parent priorities over careers
— Got it. You are a liberal whose position on women and careers clashes with that of the Democratic Party. Looks like you have some issues to work out . . . with them.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:16 pmYeah we did know about her months ago…so why are we all talking about her daughter or trying to defend her against liberals instead of discussing her policies?
Jewel (e8da8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:17 pmJewel – scumbag leftist. One thing we know about Palin is that she took on the entrenched corrupt political machine in her state and won.
Obama just obeyed the Chicago machine’s orders, not out of fear, but because Obama is corrupt. He brings more of the same – political corruption. And you support that.
That, you stupid twit, is what makes Palin scary, and that fear is the sole reason that idiots like you are commenting here today.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:17 pmHypocrisy rules. Welcome to America!
georgeB (a49a08) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:18 pmare at as arrogant as you are clueless
Clue me obamabot
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:18 pm#327 – georgeB
Did I say anything about any candidate?
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:19 pm— Did I say that you did? No. I put forth an opinion. Do try to keep up.
My aim is not to attack her, but to point out that McCain was a little too hasty to pick this woman. Not even allowing her vetting to be completed. He was driven by the advantage, he did not see the risk.
You’re in a lame-o rut. lovey.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:19 pm339 – the funny thing is that I was voting for McCain before he selected Palin. I thought McCain would offset the tax-and-spend tendencies of Congress. But McCain is old and the idea of President Palin scares the hell out of me. That along with McCain’s drifting to the right makes the possibility of McCain just continuing Bush’s policies seem possible.
I believed McCain when he said “Obama isn’t ready to be President” But compared to Palin, Obama is an experienced politician.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:19 pm339 – the funny thing is that I was voting for McCain before he selected Palin. I thought McCain would offset the tax-and-spend tendencies of Congress. But McCain is old and the idea of President Palin scares the hell out of me. That along with McCain’s drifting to the right makes the possibility of McCain just continuing Bush’s policies seem possible.
I believed McCain when he said “Obama isn’t ready to be President” But compared to Palin, Obama is an experienced politician.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:19 pmLovey @ #345…
It is not a productive line of attack since the voters’ of AK spoke on the AIP matter when they elected Sarah Palin Governor.
And, just how do you know what vetting was done by the McCain campaign? Are you the proverbial fly-on-the-wall?
You should be more concerned that, today, we know more about Sarah Palin, who is running for the office of VP, than we do about Barack Obama, who is running for the office of President!
Can you explain your lackadaisical attitude on this dichotomy? Can you excuse it?
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:21 pmOr, will you just go into drive-by mode, and open a new line of attack without answering the question?
I believed McCain when he said “Obama isn’t ready to be President” But compared to Palin, Obama is an experienced politician.
Because Palin and Obama are running for the same spot right? And they have the same experience right? (except they don’t and guess who has actual executive experience and not ‘running for an executive’ experience)
Lord Nazh (899dce) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:22 pmso why are we all talking about her daughter or trying to defend her against liberals instead of discussing her policies?
Why don’t you ask the lib buddies that sent you here, jewel?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:22 pmBut McCain is old and the idea of President Palin scares the hell out of me.
It also scares the hell out of corrupt politicians. You know them, they’re pulling your strings right now.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:24 pmBut compared to Palin, Obama is an experienced politician.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Thanks for the laugh, James.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:24 pmI eagerly await obama’s apology for neglecting his daughters while in springfield and Michelle working long hours as a hospital executive. Hey, didn’t bill clinton campaign when he had a kid? Shameless.
carlitos (7165d5) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:31 pm#340 – James
I see no hypocrisy trashing Sarah Palin for her failed beliefs.
— None . . . NONE of her beliefs have “failed”.
Since she and the GOP are advocating “beliefs” as a fundamental part of their platform.
— It’s values; something that should be a part of every political platform.
If they were to remove values from their platform then I would consider it off limits.
— That’s neither fair nor the correct way to be, but oh well.
And yes, I believe that having a teen pregnancy (either a son or a daughter) is a failure of a parent.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:32 pm— Then you are being overly harsh. Having a teenager that commits a serious crime is a failure. Having a teen that makes a mistake is real life.
“And yes, I believe that having a teen pregnancy (either a son or a daughter) is a failure of a parent.”
I’d say your parents have some splainin’ to do about your presence on the earth today – your intellectual deficiencies do not speak well of their tutelage.
“Hypocrisy rules. Welcome to America.”
Trollbots rule, welcome to the internet, where asshats like myself can post and hide behind cowardly and nonsensical non de plumes!
“If you think this woman who can’t even run her own household…”
Sweetie, this is the exact same lame ass meme we’re already heard from over five different Trollbots here today. You need to refresh your browser and get your new rants from your bestest friends evah, over at DKos.
Oh, and “Jewel?” Did you happen to have lived in a car at one point in your life? Was it also in Alaska? Your last CD really sucked donkeys, BTW.
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:37 pmJames (3:19 pm)
the funny thing is that I was voting for McCain before he selected Palin.
— Sure you were.
I thought McCain would offset the tax-and-spend tendencies of Congress.
— He will. Better stick with voting for him.
But McCain is old and the idea of President Palin scares the hell out of me.
— That’s right! The odds are 3-to-1 that he croaks before the end of his first term.
That along with McCain’s drifting to the right makes the possibility of McCain just continuing Bush’s policies seem possible.
— Being to the right means offsetting the tax-and-spenders.
I believed McCain when he said “Obama isn’t ready to be President” But compared to Palin, Obama is an experienced politician.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:45 pm— 1) I wasn’t aware that the race was Obama v. Palin. Funny. 2) Once again, the lie about her experience.
I am simply holding Sarah Palin to the morals and values which she wants to hold every American woman. This is somewhat like the Larry Craig incident. If he hadn’t been a-gay-bashing-zealot, he might have survived his bi-sexual tendencies. But when you sell family values, you better live up to the product.
To ensure peace you must prepare for war. As long as the Evangelicals make values an issue, they can never claim privacy.
You don’t think this is a failure of the parents? *sarcasm* I also believe that it is a huge failure of the person as well. But since Bristol Palin is a minor and a private citizen. Her failure isn’t really the issue.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:47 pmI am simply holding Sarah Palin to the morals and values which she wants to hold every American woman. This is somewhat like the Larry Craig incident. If he hadn’t been a-gay-bashing-zealot, he might have survived his bi-sexual tendencies. But when you sell family values, you better live up to the product.
To ensure peace you must prepare for war. As long as the Evangelicals make values an issue, they can never claim privacy.
You don’t think this is a failure of the parents? *sarcasm* I also believe that it is a huge failure of the person as well. But since Bristol Palin is a minor and a private citizen. Her failure isn’t really the issue.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:47 pmBut since Bristol Palin is a minor and a private citizen.
Those facts haven’t stopped the Obama/Biden campaign from dragging her name through the mud to get to Sara Palin.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:51 pmSarah Palin
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 3:51 pmSince the only job the VP has is to take over when if the President dies, when I vote I always consider if the VP is qualified. 18 months as Governor of Alaska, 1 or 2 terms as a small town mayor, 3-4 years on the Alaska Pipeline commission. Is not a Presidential resume (my opinion). McCain is not a young man and a cancer survivor which makes her qualifications critical.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:04 pmI am simply holding Sarah Palin to the morals and values which she wants to hold every American woman.
Oh! Then you will have no problem researching if every elected Democrat in the nation upholds to the letter each platform they ran on, right?
Hint: you’ll get beaten like Cumberland did at the hands of Georgia Tech.
To ensure peace you must prepare for war.
Ah! I see you are an Iraq War supporter!
Don’t let your lib buddies see that.
You don’t think this is a failure of the parents?
Who made the choice, James? The daughter or the mother?
I also believe that it is a huge failure of the person as well.
As I illustrated above, it’s a poor choice. What is important now is how she deals with the consequences of that choice.
But since Bristol Palin is a minor and a private citizen. Her failure isn’t really the issue.
Then why are you still talking about it?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:08 pmSince the only job the VP has is to take over when if the President dies, when I vote I always consider if the VP is qualified. 18 months as Governor of Alaska, 1 or 2 terms as a small town mayor, 3-4 years on the Alaska Pipeline commission. Is not a Presidential resume (my opinion).
So we can assume you voted for Bush in 2004, since Dick Cheney had vastly more experience than the Dems’ VP candidate, John “One Senate Term” Edwards, right?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:14 pmBecause her mother wants to spread her family values to the entire country! And if her family values include a teen pregnancy, I say “You can keep them!”
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:18 pmJames –
I am simply holding Sarah Palin to the morals and values which she wants to hold every American woman.
— And by “hold” you mean ‘legislate’? Hope not, ’cause that would be a lie. Even if that isn’t what you mean it’s still a lie. She does not want young girls who make a mistake to be crucified by the press and the blogosphere, or however you define the court of public opinion.
This is somewhat like the Larry Craig incident. If he hadn’t been a-gay-bashing-zealot, he might have survived his bi-sexual tendencies.
— He committed a crime!
But when you sell family values, you better live up to the product.
— Family values means being saintly or perfect, therefore she has to be perfect? Wrong. Family values is about families doing their best for each other. It isn’t about holding someone to a lofty standard and then declaring a total failure when one mistake occurs.
To ensure peace you must prepare for war. As long as the Evangelicals make values an issue, they can never claim privacy.
— Hey, if one side cannot claim privacy. . . .
Is that really how you want this to go?
I also believe that it is a huge failure of the person as well. But since Bristol Palin is a minor and a private citizen. Her failure isn’t really the issue.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:20 pm— Translation: I believe in personal responsibility – not really! Kidding! Kidding! Please don’t hurt me, collectivist master?
Paul, didn’t Edwards serve in the Senate and run (twice) for national office, thus neglecting his own children? The shame.
Seriously, ambulance chaser / one Senate term isn’t a Presidential resume either, given ZERO executive experience, yet Edwards nearly won.
carlitos (1b6c91) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:22 pmJust when did Gov. Palin begin this Great Crusade to inculcate her family values into every family in America?
Is there a web-site that we can go to and learn these values from her own lips?
Or, are you just suffering from PDS, and projecting what you would do in her place upon her?
Bigots!
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:29 pmJames –
Nope, wrong. You’ll learn all about this in Civics/Econ, the equivalent of which most High School students must take before graduation. Have fun!
JSinAZ (9e2136) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:32 pmJames-
Since the only job the VP has is to take over when if the President dies, when I vote I always consider if the VP is qualified.
— Yet ANOTHER fucking lie! And I say that with all due respect because I know that you have a better grasp of what the position is than that.
18 months as Governor of Alaska, 1 or 2 terms as a small town mayor, 3-4 years on the Alaska Pipeline commission. Is not a Presidential resume (my opinion).
— First, it’s not even an accurate depiction of her resume; moving along, she is not running for president.
McCain is not a young man and a cancer survivor which makes her qualifications critical.
— You just won’t let this – he’s gonna croak – shit go, will you?
Because her mother wants to spread her family values to the entire country!
— Not “spread” – share. And of course you are all for teens having sex; correct?
And if her family values include a teen pregnancy, I say “You can keep them!”
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:34 pm— Okay, try to think hard on this one. Obviously, her family values are not that teens should get pregnant; neither are they that you should put your teen in a vulnerable position where pregnancy could result. With that in mind, is your real problem that she didn’t teach her daughter that abortion in this circumstance is an option? because you think the best thing for this child is to die?
Actually, I voted for Bush, Bush, Dole, Bush, and Kerry. Bush had a blank check and 3+ years to capture bin Laden. Instead he got distracted in Iraq and still has not delivered the man who kill 3000+ Americans. W had been proven incompetent, so I figured Kerry might not be as stupid. So I voted for him.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:35 pmMy god the projection is so unreal it’s almost surreal.
1.) Create this entirely false personality and philosophy that allegedly lurks beneath your political opponent’s outward appearance: Palin is supposedly some stark raving Puritan chomping at the bit to replace the Constitution with the Bible to enslave people in some twisted Christian theocracy.
This is always a hilarious tactic given how humorless the do gooders on the left are in their never ending crusade to enforce guidelines of proper speech, diet, lifestyle, acceptable income levels, etc. all in the name of some abstract “greater good” or “fairness.”
2.) Use this ludicrous imagery to justify engaging in cheap, tawdry, creepy character assassination in the name of fighting some sort of battle for freedom and liberty.
Anything to feel like your juvenile fascination with the personal life of the Palin family is grounded in some nobler cause, right James? Yeah you’re a real freedom fighter there kid. Try to convince yourself you’re anything other than a snarky, immature cretin who is too immature to accept that people may have values different from yours.
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:37 pm“… Kerry might not be as stupid…”
Boy, that says a lot about your analytical skills, doesn’t it?
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:38 pm“I figured Kerry might not be as stupid. So I voted for him.”
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:40 pmComedic gem of the evening.
W had been proven incompetent, so I figured Kerry might not be as stupid. So I voted for him.
1) Proven incompentent? How did this “proof” come about?
2)So you are telling us that your VP considerations were thrown out the window?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:45 pmThe State of Alaska Governor’s Budget for 2009 is $10.5 BILLION. When has Obama managed anything close to that?
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:47 pmDoes anyone else here find James’ game of Twister amusing?
Jack, that one is a keeper.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:47 pm386. I’m assuming James will write out a complete two-column Euclidean geometry style proof.
GIVEN: I say Bush had been incompetent
PROVE: Bush had been incompetent
1.) Bush had been incompetent 1.) I say so
QED!
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:48 pmPaul, didn’t Edwards serve in the Senate and run (twice) for national office, thus neglecting his own children? The shame.
Why yes, yes he did, carlitos.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:50 pmThis is apparently what Sarah Palin allowed to happen. And the people of this forum seem to think it is “ok” and continually trash me for thinking it is a fundamental lapse in judgement.
I have friends that have 3 teenagers ( 2 sons, 1 daughter) and there is no way those kids are having sex. They don’t let them have any 1 on 1 time with opposite sex. Their “dates” are church supervised group activities only. So don’t tell me “It is impossible to control your teens”.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:50 pmFinally thank you James its about time someone on this stupid blog said that….I love how one second you all want to jump on the moral band wagon but then you want to defend a pregnant teen!
Lauren (e8da8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:55 pmAh I knew that James had impeccable logical skills. One example of a friend’s family who allegedly monitor every minute of social activity of their kids ERGO Sarah Palin is a failure as a mother and a person, and wholly unqualified to be VP because she wants to use the government to control everyone’s lives in a way similar to the family I use as an example to prove my point.
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:55 pm373 – I like the cute ‘lil name they gave you…ANUS is just sooo apropos.
Experience counts? Had O!bama selected the governor of Va. as his running mate, what would you have said? Keane has the same time as governor as Palin or do you subscribe to the belief that Alaska is just too small in population and shouldn’t really count?
I think JD hit it on head on another board referring to you lockstep Obama cretins as oozing rectal fistulae. now, bioya and gfy, mf.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:56 pmLauren the compassionate:
I’ll defend any pregnant teen that has financial and emotional support from her family, marries the baby’s father, and wants her baby.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:58 pmOMFG Lauren isnt this like the most stupidest blog EVER!!!!
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 4:59 pmYeah and do you think she came up with those decisions by her own? hmm if my mother was Palin and I got pregnant I think I wouldn’t have much of a choice. So I’m guessing now your going to tell me that getting married at 17 is also acceptable and it usually results in a great relationship right?
Lauren (e8da8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:03 pmBush could not stay “on task”. The “task” (my opinion) after 9/11 was to capture Bin Laden and destroy Al Qaeda. Neither of those were accomplished and the distraction of the war in Iraq is not helping achieve the goal. This in my opinion is complete incompetence.
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:03 pmthere is no way those kids are having sex.
Heh so abstinence-only education works eh?
Lord Nazh (ce25e3) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:04 pmBush could not stay “on task”. The “task” (my opinion) after 9/11 was to capture Bin Laden and destroy Al Qaeda. Neither of those were accomplished and the distraction of the war in Iraq is not helping achieve the goal. This in my opinion is complete incompetence.
There it is, Jack–your Euclidean geometry prediction come true.
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:09 pmJames seriously what in the ever living god almighty state of complete utter clueless ignorance do you live in? Have you somehow kept yourself willfully ignorant of how decimated AQ is primarily as a result of making Iraq the battlefield against AQ? Your cognitive dissonance is so beyond surreal.
Lauren how the hell would you know anything about the private discussions that went on in the Palin household with regard to this personal issue? And there are quite a few places in the U.S. where marriage at 17 is perfectly acceptable and those relationships have over the years turned out perfectly fine. I realize you want to project your own worst beliefs upon this family because you probably hate their “politics”, but you should put the crystal ball away when it comes to decided how and why any family reached the decisions that they did.
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:09 pmand destroy Al Qaeda
how are they doing btw?
Lord Nazh (ce25e3) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:10 pmLauren,
I’m not keen on 17-year-olds getting married at all and especially not to much older people. However, I’m not surprised that two 17-year-olds might want to get married. In addition, the 17-year-olds I know can make decisions for themselves – although I hope they make decisions in consultation with their parents.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:11 pmJames –
This is apparently what Sarah Palin allowed to happen. And the people of this forum seem to think it is “ok” and continually trash me for thinking it is a fundamental lapse in judgement.
— Define what the lapse in judgment is. Is it that she didn’t have a private detective following her daughter 24/7? Is it that Bristol was allowed to go out of the house unsupervised at all, or that Sarah didn’t grill her everytime she came home? Is it that you think she never had “the talk” with her daughter? Is it that you think she forbade Bristol from using birth control? Give us something beyond the vague ‘she allowed it to happen’ crap.
don’t tell me “It is impossible to control your teens”.
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:11 pm— Nobody has said that . . . NOBODY. What we are saying is that you do not crucify the parent when the teen makes a mistake. You do not say “The teen made a bad choice, therefore the parent is a failure”. If you are truly a conservative and are truly that far to the right, then it’s no wonder that none of the candidates do anything for you. You would probably be hard-pressed to remember the last time a candidate for federal office did.
401 – Question : Is OBL in US custody?
James (f7470d) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:14 pmAnswer : No
Evaluation : Failure
Except James, Al Queda poured hundreds, if not thousands, of jihadi’s into Iraq,
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:15 pmwhere they have been promptly turned into body-bag stuffing.
It is only a matter of time until Osama joins his acolytes in attempting to collect on that 72-virgins thing.
Osama and his Lt’s, proclaimed that Iraq was the Central Front in the Jihad against the West, in general, and the Great Satan, in particular.
Iraq is flypaper, the jihadi’s are the flys, and the U.S.Military just keep unrolling the rolls.
As long as we are killing them over there, it is a great thing.
When we have to start killing them over here, you better watch your back. A lot of your friends might take offense that you advocated pulling out of the ME before the job was finished there.
Plus, you can never tell when that pizza you ordered gets delivered with an extra order of C4.
Custody?
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:16 pmWe don’t want him in Custody.
We want him Dead!
I wish people would stop being so hard on Bill Clinton. He did have other things going on you know.
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:17 pmstashiu: winner (racist!)
Lord Nazh (ce25e3) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:18 pmCouldn’t figure out which wash cycle to use for blue dresses, as I remember.
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:20 pm405. QUESTION: Are you a completely shallow, clueless, idiotic analyst of foreign and military policy, using whatever standards YOU decide determines success or failure in the grand scheme of global strategy? Are you really so simple as to reduce it to the juvenile train of logic that you in all seriousness present as a validation of your analysis of the success or failure of a Presidency?
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:21 pmANSWER: Of course you are!
CONCLUSION: Bush is a “failure.”
409. That really was terrible the way he insulted America’s first black president.
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:27 pm#360
love2008 (1b037c) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:29 pmYou should be more concerned that, today, we know more about Sarah Palin, who is running for the office of VP, than we do about Barack Obama, who is running for the office of President!
What else do you want to know about Obama? If he has a “Mitchell” tattoo on his balls? Or if he farts during sex? Or maybe if he snores at night? Mmh? What else?
melissa and kristen owe me a new Instinct. That was the biggest collection of bullshit meme advancement I have seen today. This idea that nominating Palin could be an insult is one of the biggest laughers around. That and the one where a woman should stay home and tend to her flock.
Farging mendoucheous asshats.
Racists
JD (5f0e11) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:29 pmLauren –
Yeah and do you think she came up with those decisions by her own? hmm if my mother was Palin and I got pregnant I think I wouldn’t have much of a choice.
— Oh, I don’t know. She had the choice to do the right thing and she did it. But of course “choice” is an ethereal thing, isn’t it. Her choices are to be strictly controlled by her parents except for when she gets pregnant.
So I’m guessing now your going to tell me that getting married at 17 is also acceptable and it usually results in a great relationship right?
Icy Truth (80b4e7) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:30 pm— 1) She just might be 18, and a legal adult, when she gets married. 2) It is acceptable to marry the father of your child. 3) It is none of your business whether or not someone else’s relationship is “great”, and not your call to make.
Lauren and James cannot be real.
Oozing necrotic rectal fistulae, they are.
JD (5f0e11) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:39 pmBut you realize the fact that bin Laden is not being fingerprinted in some NYPD station house and then later put in one of those striped outfits with the ball and chain equals BUSH FAILURE. There must be an O.J. style trial of OBL broadcast on Court TV with a fast talking jive lawyer saying “If the jihad don’t fit…you must submit!”
Jack Klompus (b0e238) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:43 pm#413…
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:43 pmTMI!
James (& Lauren), look out – if your daughters one day find themselves pregnant at 15, 16, or 17 and wanted so much to tell you because they needed your love, guidance and support to see them through a very difficult time in their young lives but realized it would be a gamble because they knew they would risk your judgement and condemnation which you have evidenced here, they won’t turn to you. They will turn to Planned Parenthood who is more than willing to take care of the little matter. Or they will turn to someone else who will give them understanding and love.
And to have one’s child turn to another person during their greatest hour of need because they couldn’t bear the judgement from their parents because they are already suffering their own self-condemnation and guilt, would most likely be one of the biggest heartaches a parent would carry for the rest of their life. And you know why? Because it would silently scream that you failed as a parent. Not the pregnancy but the knowledge that your child could not trust your with something so utterly personal and life changing and painful.
Dana (084de8) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:58 pm#418
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/2/2008 @ 5:59 pmReally, AD? There’s more.
James – I hate to tell ya buddy, but those church sponsored group activities were when some of the best stuff happened.
It’s obvious you have never dealt with teenagers yourself.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:01 pmDana – Well said. It is like they are terrified of a loving family.
JD (5f0e11) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:03 pm420 (how apt for you):
Why did Obama not vet his preacher better? Or his spiritual mentor?
Why did Obama take money/favors from a known crook?
Why did/does Obama work with/call friends a man that declared war on the country Obama currently wants to run?
What is Obama hiding in the Aranberg (sp?) fiasco?
Exactly what does hope and change mean? And why is running to be President qualification for said post and running the state of Alaska not qualification to be the #2?
Why would Obama think his judgment should get him elected when so far it only raises ‘distractions’ and bus passes…
Lord Nazh (ce25e3) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:03 pm#420…
TMI about you in that post.
You have my condolences.
Yes, well like Lt. Coffey, I “can’t handle the truth” about certain things.
Another Drew (dbf36d) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:06 pmWhat it says about the individual is just too unsettling.
For those criticizing Palin’s decision to run, you seem to forget about Bloviating Joe Biden’s decision to serve in the Senate instead of caring for his young family after his wife was killed in a car accident and two children were seriously injured. That was heartless wasn’t it?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:15 pm“Finally thank you James its about time someone on this stupid blog…”
ANUS, meet Lawwwwren; Lawwwwren, ANUS. The two stupidest people here who come to spend all their stupid time together. Awesome!
Dmac (874677) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:22 pm#424
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:24 pmYou are the one who wanted to know more about Obama. Now you can’t handle the information you seek.
I agree, people’s kids should be off limits and so should people’s uteruses.
Lillie (df9c6f) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:48 pmYou know, some days having to work for a living just totally sucks when you miss the party.
One question I have for the Obamabots that I haven’t seen posed to them, is why (if she is so hell bent on forcing them to live life as she directs) was her first gubernatorial veto a bill that would have limited or denied benefits to same sex couples because she deemed it unconstitutional?
I mean, if she were that much of a fire-breathing Carrie Nation analog, wouldn’t she have signed onto it and then told the courts to stuff it when later brought to trial?
And further, if she is so inept and inexperienced, how is it that she whupped up on the Good Old Boys in the state~who just HAPPEN to be Inside the Beltway level Players?
On top of which, what kind of red-neck hubbie has she got that she just allows him to lounge around the house unemployed and playing hookie with the kids?
I have to admit…I just don’t have a clue how I would explain those things if I were a Leftard…
EW1(SG) (ae500e) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:56 pmLillie, I shouldn’t worry. There’s a very good chance that NOBODY wants to play with yours.
EW1(SG) (ae500e) — 9/2/2008 @ 6:59 pmI agree, people’s kids should be off limits and so should people’s uteruses.
If you don’t kill the kids, we won’t kill your uteruses (heh)
deal?
Pro-Life, it’s for the children!
Lord Nazh (ce25e3) — 9/2/2008 @ 7:09 pmObama can’t say anything about this poor child’s plight, or how her parents are handling it. Because he is right – intimate family matters should be off limits for his campaign.
But this family situation DOES bear heavily on Sarah Palin’s character – particularly her political platform of “family values.” Not to mention her basic character. These are legitimate areas for scrutinizing a candidate. She may have the competence, but she does NOT have thc character. It didn’t have to be this way. SHE chose to let this situation shame her daughter globally.
Look at how Obama is protective of his two little girls. He pulled the rug promptly when he saw that the media would dig into them for anything they could find. He ended it – cold. He is a family man and a father FIRST. A loyal American SECOND. A presidential candidate THIRD. He doesn’t just say it, he lives up to it.
THAT is walking the talk. But Sarah Palin does it, too – her talk, and her walk, is her absolutist religion. And that’s something for us all to DREAD.
Obama can’t say anything, but I know precisely where his sympathies lie: with that poor innocent child. Can you even IMAGINE him allowing one of his daughters to be subjected to something like this?
Sara Palin AND her husband, AND John McCain ALL KNEW of this child’s pregnancy. They also KNEW it would be impossible to keep under wraps if her mother accepted the VP slot. They knew it would be traumatic for this girl, who is still just a child herself. Yet this mother accepted the nomination, despite the horrific cost to her own child. Even if this little girl gets up and says publicly that she WANTED her mom to accept the post – it doesen’t count. She’s a minor, and isn’t legally able to make responsible adult decisions. THAT was her parent’s duty. In which they knowingly failed miserably. Then made a virtue out of it.
I don’t care how much they bleat that they’re PROUD of their daughter’s decisions, etc. – what they all did, by Sarah Palin’s acceptance as McCain’s running mate – was to throw her under the bus. Worse. They threw her to the media wolves. Poor little kid. They didn’t even care about her education, but LET her drop out of high school!
I don’t hear liberals castigating this little girl – but I do hear them castigating her MOTHER. And with ample reason.
But that was only the beginning, because the next thing they did was to EXPLOIT the situation for political points – to show how tolerant, forgiving and “together” their family was.
The Palins are bornagains, creationist/absolutist “believers” in the extreme religious right. What do we know about their faith, about its “moralities”? Easy. Zero tolerance for unwed mothers. They’re “lost souls,” trollops, sluts, painted Jezebels, on and on. It is REQUIRED in the faith for her parents – and the whole family – to be mercilessly harsh, heavily judgmental of her.
Saying publicly how proud they are of her is gaining political points for Sarah – while her treatment of her own little girl was nothing short of heinous.
In the privacy of her home, this little girl is being subjected to condemnation beyond belief! The recriminations are hailing down on her virtually every minute the family is alone together. There IS no other way to treat her, under the moralities of the bornagain faith.
They’re either doing THAT, or they aren’t really bornagains. Since we know they ARE bornagains, we know how this little girl is being made to suffer at home.
So this “family solidarity” is pure sham, simply for the sake of an “image” which plays well with the religious right. In private, this little girl’s family life is hell on earth. And the religious right knows full well that her parents are required to castigate her constantly – and they’re applauding it all.
But that wasn’t all her OWN PARENTS did to her. They are now exploiting the media coverage to show how “tolerant and forgiving” they are – for political gain. EXPLOITING this poor child’s anguish and trauma for ambition. The religious right knows these parents are anything BUT forgiving and tolerant. But they go along with the sham, too, for political purposes.
If their daughter had KILLED someone, this family would still find a way to tell their constituents how PROUD they are of her. It’s ALL for image.
Yet the GOP claims one of its strongest platforms is “family values.” They’re applauding this family. A child, abandoned and betrayed – and then EXPLOITED – by the people she loved, trusted and needed most, and at a time in her short little life when she needed them most of ALL.
ALL my sympathy is for this child.
This isn’t “family values” or “family solidarity,” nor is it “tolerance and forgiveness.” It’s flat CRUELTY to a child.
And it’s a cruelty in which John McCain was fully – and knowingly – complicit. He didn’t mind it one bit.
To know how cruel it is, ask yourself if you’d been in the shoes of Sarah Palin, what would YOU have done if it was YOUR daughter? Exploiting your own child’s misery, shame and trauma by knowingly allowing the media to make a global spectacle of her “error in judgment”? Thrown your child under the bus to serve your ambition to become VP? Or with sadness and regret, would you take a pass on the post, for the sake of an innocent child, from a core of “family values” that makes protecting one’s own, particularly one’s CHILD – an absolute imperative, a priority higher than ANY kind of ambition?
Forget “family values” – human parental INSTINCT has, as a major component, protecting one’s own, particularly one’s own dependent CHILD. Even animals have the instinct to protect their young – often giving it priority over their own lives. In humans, it seems easy to forget protecting our children – particularly when there’s ambition to be served, and a religion that tells us to condemn our own kin for a sexual “sin.”
So where was the protectiveness for THIS poor little girl? From her mother? From her father? From John McCain?
GOP and “family values”? My mother’s snood.
This was just plain CRUELTY. Despicable, reprehensible child abuse.
Is a cruel mother fit to be a leader? Does she have ANY good character traits if she could do what she did to her own child?
The GOP righteously holds forth how important family values and character are in a candidate.
Obama protects his family. McCain cares nothing for protecting Palin’s, especially because the little girl’s OWN MOTHER doesn’t. This woman does NOT stand for women’s rights, but against them. How she treated her own daughter speaks of that eloquently. She’s no steward of women’s rights, or a shining example of a working mother. She’s a complete character meltdown, not fit to lead a kitten, much less a nation.
It wasn’t her daughter’s place to give her mother “permission” to go ahead. She’s still too young to grasp the full implications. It was her mom’s duty to shield her, protect her, and instead her mom used her horribly. It’s pure child abuse.
To these people, what they say, the image they project, is much more important than what they really DO. Hippocrisy rules.
It’s a deep low point when cruelty to a child can actually be applauded.
You bet I’m disgusted. I wish I could help that poor little girl somehow.
Holly B. (c81e20) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:39 pmHolly B. amusing how you blame Palin for others’ actions.
Well, actually it isn’t. I don’t find it funny. And I’m disgusted by you. Your comment is full of hatred, bigotry and intolerance.
Just what we expect from Obama voters.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:46 pmA new concern-troll. How sweet.
JD (5f0e11) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:48 pmHolly B.,
Take a breath. You’ve not only gone off the deep end, you’re dangerously close to going down the drain.
And it’s hypocrisy, not hippocrisy.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:50 pmI wish I could help that poor little girl somehow.
No you don’t – you just want to use Bristol Palin as a convenient tool to prove some point you have incoherently attempted to make. And whatever that point is, you will no doubt feel smugly self-righteous afterward.
Meh. These people are sucking the lifeblood out of the sane.
Dana (084de8) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:52 pmLillie –
I agree, people’s kids should be off limits and so should people’s uteruses.
— I agree. Sharp metal objects should be off-limits around both of them.
Icy Truth (d9ccad) — 9/2/2008 @ 9:58 pmThis is apparently what Sarah Palin allowed to happen. And the people of this forum seem to think it is “ok” and continually trash me for thinking it is a fundamental lapse in judgement.
Please, please keep arguing that parents are guilty of a lapse in judgment if their teenaged kids do something irresponsible.
Only, could you do it more publicly? And somehow get Obama to put his stamp of approval on the argument?
Patterico (cc3b34) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:03 pmIn response to this…
I copy myself from a different thread –
In telling the press today that this topic is off-limits, Obama noted that his mother was only 18 when she gave birth to him. Let’s look a little closer:
Obama’s mother, Ann, was born November 29, 1942.
She married Obama’s father on February 2, 1961.
Barack was born August 4, 1961.
Barack was born 6 months after his parents got married, and 8 months (+ one week) after his mother turned 18. So, she was already pregnant when she got married, and it’s possible that she was still 17 when she got pregnant.
Not much different from what is happening with Bristol Palin right now, is it?
Comment by Icy Truth — 9/1/2008 @ 10:35 pm
Um last time I checked Obama’s Mother wasn’t actually running for VP and pushing an *abstinence only education* which obviously didn’t work for her daughter.
VB (999572) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:13 pmRight-wingers here, a’plenty. And they’re slamming Obama over an issue where he has stolidly held to his principles and held his tongue. Even when he says nothing, they condemn him! That’s a real hoot, huh?
Some say Obama’s campaign is behind all this – who are they kidding? Obama has an official campaign staff; THEY can’t comment on this. But I, an Obama supporter, certainly CAN. The GOP is behind this. They WANTED this publicity, WANTED to let Palin project an “image” of tolerance, forgiveness and family solidarity – at her own DAUGHTER’S EXPENSE! They planned it, even before she was offered the VP slot. And she eagerly went along with it, as did McCain. Loathsome.
Which party condones torture? Which party lies like a rug? Which party cheats, smears and fixes elections? Which party puts abortions ahead of our economy? Or global warming? Or our busted schools and infrastructure? Or two WARS!!? But they do. Oh, they do.
Now, they have “family values”? How warm-fuzzy. And how fake.
Here they are at their convention, publicly PRAISING a mother who just committed heinous child abuse – right in the center of the public spotlight! No innuendoes needed. She thrust her pregnant unwed child into a media hotbed – knowingly. Then proudly paraded their “family unity” – thus exploiting this poor child’s pain and trauma all the MORE. Sorry, this is cruelty at its best. And none of it was hidden (except the things they say in private to Bristol, of course).
A little 12-year-old girl on this page said it ALL. She hurts for the abuse and suffering of this little girl, and thinks her parents STINK for allowing it. Right on the button, m’dear. You are a true credit to your parents.
Then some troll gets up and calls this 12-year-old something like “fucking stupid,” and willing to say anything to support her own candidate.
Dear troll: 12-year-olds CAN’T VOTE. But they DO know how a child feels when his/her own parents betray and abandon her. She was a child, and standing up – against whole hordes of adults on this page – for another child. BRAVO to her!
Dear troll: go suck an egg.
This 12-year-old would make a better VP than poor Bristol’s mother. She has common sense, compassion and basic human decency. I wish I knew her! I’d like to tell her how magnificent she is.
I’ve always had a way with children, and now I think I know WHY. They know I RELATE to how they think and feel. Does that make me a childish adult? Just try it! All my adult life, kids and teens have come to me for advice. And found it extrememly helpful. But even if I think their parents are twerps, I’ll never say that to their child – too harmful, even if true. But I won’t tell them the problem is all because they need to be “better, more obedient children” either. I’ll find a way to help the child COPE. Without dissing the parents. I genuinely love young people. They’re the hope of the future, but they’re also precious to watch, as they grow and learn and mature. To have a positive impact on their development is sheer joy to me.
If Bristol had come to ME with her pregnancy, I’d have never dreamed of denouncing her. I’d give her all the hope, love and support I could. But not being her mother, the DECISIONS about publicizing her plight were not mine to make. Nor were they Bristol’s. Even if she SAID it was OK for her mom to be the VP pick – how could Bristol, still a child, fully understand what all that publicity – which would inevitably be highlighting shame and giving her trauma a booster shot – would mean to her? And with a judgmental family behind her, they’d give her no choices at ALL. Even “choosing” to keep the baby was NOT her choice at all.
I know how she feels: like she’s in a room full of alligators.
Protecting HER was her mother’s duty. For a REAL mother, it should have been her PRIME DIRECTIVE.
Nothing I could have said or done with Bristol could have spared her this, though I wish it could. All I can do is tell her, from a place like this, to “hold on!” Even though “this too shall pass” is a pitiful comfort, it’s all I’d be able to offer her. I only hope her mind is intact by the time she is a full adult. I wish I could give her a big, nonjudgmental HUG! And tell her that no matter what, there IS magnificence in her – she only needs to find it and build on it. When she gets a chance to, that is.
Poor little kid.
Holly B. (c81e20) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:32 pmHolly, you should work in your namesake…Hollywood.
Because you are a master projectionist.
And with a judgmental family behind her, they’d give her no choices at ALL. Even “choosing” to keep the baby was NOT her choice at all.
Really? Do you personally know the Palins, so you could make such a determination?
Protecting HER was her mother’s duty. For a REAL mother, it should have been her PRIME DIRECTIVE.
So, Holly, do you loiter outside the local welfare office or Section 8 housing project, telling the young women that it is their own mother’s fault they’ve had five children from multiple fathers?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/2/2008 @ 10:53 pmHolly – I can’t tell you how glad I am you stopped by to share your views with us tonight.
C’mon JD fess up. That’s you doing a retarded moonbat impression. You’ve got the whining down pretty well, the stereotypes, the not accepting personal responsibility, but it needs more work.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:07 pmHolly B. You’re the troll. The fake troll. Skip the phony concern. You’re an Obama/Biden smear merchant that’s come by to drag a young girl through the mud in order to gain political points.
You and your leftist friends are nothing short of scum.
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:29 pmHolly B. —
Obama can’t say anything about this poor child’s plight, or how her parents are handling it. Because he is right – intimate family matters should be off limits for his campaign.
— What he said is that it is (not “should be” – is) off-limits for everyone: his campaign, the media. and you.
But this family situation DOES bear heavily on Sarah Palin’s character – particularly her political platform of “family values.”
— Right. And it shows that she is consistent with them.
Not to mention her basic character.
— Which is informed by her family values.
These are legitimate areas for scrutinizing a candidate.
— In private. Defying the Messiah will come back to bite you in the ass on Judgment — er, Election Day.
She may have the competence, but she does NOT have thc character.
— There’s no “may” about it; she has both, in spades.
It didn’t have to be this way. SHE chose to let this situation shame her daughter globally.
— Not overstating the case ever so slightly, are you? Is this how desperate to win you lib pieces of shit have become? If you care about minimizing Bristol’s “shame”, there’s one thing YOU can do to help: shut the fuck up about it.
Look at how Obama is protective of his two little girls. He pulled the rug promptly when he saw that the media would dig into them for anything they could find. He ended it – cold. He is a family man and a father FIRST. A loyal American SECOND. A presidential candidate THIRD. He doesn’t just say it, he lives up to it.
— Look at how this piece of shit lies. Sarah Palin has never subjected her children to a national TV interview; neither has John McCain.
THAT is walking the talk.
— THAT is talking the shit.
But Sarah Palin does it, too – her talk, and her walk, is her absolutist religion. And that’s something for us all to DREAD.
— Don’t let fear rule your life, fucking pussy!
Obama can’t say anything, but I know precisely where his sympathies lie: with that poor innocent child. Can you even IMAGINE him allowing one of his daughters to be subjected to something like this?
— Of course not. He doesn’t want them “punished with a baby”. But to your point, why is he allowing pieces of excrement like you to subject us to this shit?
Sara Palin AND her husband, AND John McCain ALL KNEW of this child’s pregnancy. They also KNEW it would be impossible to keep under wraps if her mother accepted the VP slot. They knew it would be traumatic for this girl, who is still just a child herself.
— It will be a lot less traumatic if you and all of the other cuntlicks will just shut the fuck up.
Yet this mother accepted the nomination, despite the horrific cost to her own child.
— Horrific? It’s almost like you’re actually saying “Don’t you guys know what kind of uncaring cocksucking pieces of filth we are?”
Even if this little girl gets up and says publicly that she WANTED her mom to accept the post – it doesen’t count.
— “Little girl”? She gets younger, and by extension more the victim of her power-hungry birthing parent, line by line.
She’s a minor, and isn’t legally able to make responsible adult decisions. THAT was her parent’s duty. In which they knowingly failed miserably. Then made a virtue out of it.
— So, ‘not legally responsible’ is the same as ‘congenitally unable’ to make a responsible adult decision? What decision did her parents fail to make?
I don’t care how much they bleat that they’re PROUD of their daughter’s decisions, etc. – what they all did, by Sarah Palin’s acceptance as McCain’s running mate – was to throw her under the bus.
— What bus? To ‘throw someone under the bus’ is to distance yourself from that person, to tell them you will no longer have anything to do with them. What “they all did” was exactly the opposite, prickstein! They embraced her.
Worse. They threw her to the media wolves.
— Typical libshit. The media wolves have no personal responsibility for their scandal-whoring ways.
Poor little kid. They didn’t even care about her education, but LET her drop out of high school!
— Does telling lie after lie make your dick grow from one millimeter to two?
I don’t hear liberals castigating this little girl – but I do hear them castigating her MOTHER. And with ample reason.
— Well if all you twatrags are doing is attacking Sarah, how then is Bristol being shamed “globally”?
But that was only the beginning, because the next thing they did was to EXPLOIT the situation for political points – to show how tolerant, forgiving and “together” their family was.
— Translation: they were honest. It’s not surprising that you don’t recognize it.
The Palins are bornagains, creationist/absolutist “believers” in the extreme religious right. What do we know about their faith, about its “moralities”? Easy. Zero tolerance for unwed mothers. They’re “lost souls,” trollops, sluts, painted Jezebels, on and on. It is REQUIRED in the faith for her parents – and the whole family – to be mercilessly harsh, heavily judgmental of her.
— And the evidence that they were harsh and judgmental towards Bristol is what?
Saying publicly how proud they are of her is gaining political points for Sarah – while her treatment of her own little girl was nothing short of heinous.
— How so?
In the privacy of her home, this little girl is being subjected to condemnation beyond belief! The recriminations are hailing down on her virtually every minute the family is alone together. There IS no other way to treat her, under the moralities of the bornagain faith.
— Oh, I see! You turn yourself into a fly and then enter their house as an undercover insect. Very clever.
They’re either doing THAT, or they aren’t really bornagains.
— Wait, I thought that you KNOW what’s going on.
Since we know they ARE bornagains, we know how this little girl is being made to suffer at home.
— Whoop. Now you know again. It is a bit confusing, trying to keep your own bullshit straight.
So this “family solidarity” is pure sham, simply for the sake of an “image” which plays well with the religious right.
— They’re bad and they’re disingenuous!
In private, this little girl’s family life is hell on earth. And the religious right knows full well that her parents are required to castigate her constantly – and they’re applauding it all.
— Methinks thou dost protest too much . . . and that you deserved every ass-whuppin’ you ever received.
But that wasn’t all her OWN PARENTS did to her. They are now exploiting the media coverage to show how “tolerant and forgiving” they are – for political gain.
— Perhaps they should pretend that they don’t really have any kids.
EXPLOITING this poor child’s anguish and trauma for ambition.
— Is that what pregnancy is these days? It’s a wonder that Obama’s mama made it through being pregnant AT THE SAME AGE.
The religious right knows these parents are anything BUT forgiving and tolerant. But they go along with the sham, too, for political purposes.
— The entire religious right is in on a cover-up now? Maybe they didn’t beat you enough; they didn’t get any sense into you.
If their daughter had KILLED someone, this family would still find a way to tell their constituents how PROUD they are of her. It’s ALL for image.
— This one God will get you for writing. You knew it was a lie before you typed a single letter, and yet you did it anyway.
Yet the GOP claims one of its strongest platforms is “family values.” They’re applauding this family.
— That’s right; warts and all.
A child, abandoned and betrayed – and then EXPLOITED – by the people she loved, trusted and needed most, and at a time in her short little life when she needed them most of ALL.
— And, surprisingly – because you’ve mentioned it so many times but still haven’t – you still have not explained how she has been either abandoned or betrayed. But don’t let little details like details get in the way.
ALL my sympathy is for this child.
— Hard to tell by ANYTHING that you’ve written here.
This isn’t “family values” or “family solidarity,” nor is it “tolerance and forgiveness.” It’s flat CRUELTY to a child.
— And the ‘cruel’ part is not allowing her to kill it, is that right? Shit. Why am I asking? Of course that’s what you meant.
And it’s a cruelty in which John McCain was fully – and knowingly – complicit. He didn’t mind it one bit.
— That’s right. McCain, during one of his multitudinous flashbacks, declared “The Viet Cong tortured me; now it’s Bristol’s turn!”
To know how cruel it is, ask yourself if you’d been in the shoes of Sarah Palin, what would YOU have done if it was YOUR daughter?
— The exact same thing.
Exploiting your own child’s misery, shame and trauma by knowingly allowing the media to make a global spectacle of her “error in judgment”?
— Again you admit that it is the media that should be the target of your spleen. Off with you, then. Go bug them.
Thrown your child under the bus to serve your ambition to become VP?
— Never would. And they never did.
Or with sadness and regret, would you take a pass on the post, for the sake of an innocent child, from a core of “family values” that makes protecting one’s own, particularly one’s CHILD – an absolute imperative, a priority higher than ANY kind of ambition?
— The imperative isn’t to be an overprotective nanny; that’s your side of the sewer.
Forget “family values” – human parental INSTINCT has, as a major component, protecting one’s own, particularly one’s own dependent CHILD. Even animals have the instinct to protect their young – often giving it priority over their own lives.
— Based on this rant, Sarah IS the one out there being attacked by you and others. She’s doing exactly what you just said she should do.
In humans, it seems easy to forget protecting our children – particularly when there’s ambition to be served, and a religion that tells us to condemn our own kin for a sexual “sin.”
— Nobody has forgotten a thing. We are protecting her. She has not ‘condemned her kin’.
So where was the protectiveness for THIS poor little girl? From her mother? From her father? From John McCain?
— Get in John McCain’s face about it. Go ahead.
GOP and “family values”? My mother’s snood.
— From the department of repeat it a hundred times department.
This was just plain CRUELTY. Despicable, reprehensible child abuse.
— Child abuse? Call the authorities! Ask them to beat you like mums and dads used to.
Is a cruel mother fit to be a leader? Does she have ANY good character traits if she could do what she did to her own child?
— She’d kick your wimp ass.
The GOP righteously holds forth how important family values and character are in a candidate.
— That’s “rightly”, not “righteously”.
Obama protects his family. McCain cares nothing for protecting Palin’s, especially because the little girl’s OWN MOTHER doesn’t.
— Lie.
This woman does NOT stand for women’s rights, but against them.
— Motherfucking lie.
How she treated her own daughter speaks of that eloquently.
— Replace “that” with “her” and you will have finally said something true.
She’s no steward of women’s rights, or a shining example of a working mother. She’s a complete character meltdown, not fit to lead a kitten, much less a nation.
— I’m betting that you have a nation of kittens sharing your home with you.
It wasn’t her daughter’s place to give her mother “permission” to go ahead. She’s still too young to grasp the full implications. It was her mom’s duty to shield her, protect her, and instead her mom used her horribly. It’s pure child abuse.
— Actually, Bristol gave her mom permission to shield and protect her, which is what she’s doing.
To these people, what they say, the image they project, is much more important than what they really DO. Hippocrisy rules.
— If you try to project the image that you are a tolerant understanding compassionate human being, instead of a shit-talking ass-fucking jizz-swilling waste of space — then it’s you who is the Hippo-crit.
It’s a deep low point when cruelty to a child can actually be applauded.
— If I had been there when they beat you I would have showed my appreciation.
You bet I’m disgusted. I wish I could help that poor little girl somehow.
Icy Truth (d9ccad) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:42 pm— Make this your last blog post for the rest of your life. That will work; I promise.
VB — 10:13 pm
Um last time I checked Obama’s Mother wasn’t actually running for VP and pushing an *abstinence only education* which obviously didn’t work for her daughter.
— Um, last time I checked Obama was the one who brought up the similarity with what his mother went through at the same age, as he was pushing for assholes to not make anything out of it, which obviously didn’t work for some of the shit-stains around here.
Icy Truth (d9ccad) — 9/2/2008 @ 11:53 pmHolly B. —
Right-wingers here, a’plenty. And they’re slamming Obama over an issue where he has stolidly held to his principles and held his tongue. Even when he says nothing, they condemn him! That’s a real hoot, huh?
— If you’re praising him for holding his tongue, why can’t you hold yours?
Some say Obama’s campaign is behind all this – who are they kidding? Obama has an official campaign staff; THEY can’t comment on this. But I, an Obama supporter, certainly CAN.
— That’s right; you can. But he told you not to do it. Why are you defying him? Seems that you are not worthy to vote for him.
The GOP is behind this. They WANTED this publicity, WANTED to let Palin project an “image” of tolerance, forgiveness and family solidarity – at her own DAUGHTER’S EXPENSE! They planned it, even before she was offered the VP slot. And she eagerly went along with it, as did McCain. Loathsome.
— That’s right. They even hired Levi and paid him to knock her up! It was all pre-arranged because they knew how it would play.
Which party condones torture?
— Shut up about that or else I’ll beat you like a red headed stepchild.
Which party lies like a rug?
— That is not a rug on Biden’s head. Those are hair plugs. Get it straight.
Which party cheats, smears and fixes elections?
— Oh, so you’ve been to Chicago.
Which party puts abortions ahead of our economy?
— The country of leprechauns river-dancing inside your cabeza?
Or global warming? Or our busted schools and infrastructure? Or two WARS!!? But they do. Oh, they do.
— I’m confused. Which ones do they but before the economy?
Now, they have “family values”? How warm-fuzzy. And how fake.
— I’ll say! Whoever told you that family values are a new thing told you a fib.
Here they are at their convention, publicly PRAISING a mother who just committed heinous child abuse – right in the center of the public spotlight!
— Smacked her face on-camera, did she? Let’s you and me try that.
No innuendoes needed. She thrust her pregnant unwed child into a media hotbed – knowingly. Then proudly paraded their “family unity” – thus exploiting this poor child’s pain and trauma all the MORE.
— Their family isn’t really unified? And yeah, the media hotbed. Gosh, all of those questions from reporters that she’s had to deal with. So far the number of questions is up to ZERO.
Sorry, this is cruelty at its best.
— You’ve never been to a Celine Dion concert.
And none of it was hidden (except the things they say in private to Bristol, of course).
— And even that wasn’t hidden from your tinfoil hat.
A little 12-year-old girl on this page said it ALL. She hurts for the abuse and suffering of this little girl, and thinks her parents STINK for allowing it.
— You’re 12? Damn! I had “9” in the pool.
Right on the button, m’dear. You are a true credit to your parents.
— Wait. I thought it was your parents that beat you. Oh, I see. The 12-year-old is the one you talk to sometimes; the one the others have a hard time seeing.
Then some troll gets up and calls this 12-year-old something like “fucking stupid,” and willing to say anything to support her own candidate.
— The regulars are not the trolls. In fact, trolls are irregular by definition, due to all of the shit they spew.
Dear troll: 12-year-olds CAN’T VOTE. But they DO know how a child feels when his/her own parents betray and abandon her. She was a child, and standing up – against whole hordes of adults on this page – for another child. BRAVO to her!
— And to the unicorn she rides. Bravo! Bravo!
Dear troll: go suck an egg.
— Dear Freak, go suck a fat-baby’s dick.
This 12-year-old would make a better VP than poor Bristol’s mother. She has common sense, compassion and basic human decency. I wish I knew her! I’d like to tell her how magnificent she is.
— So go to the mirror and tell her already.
I’ve always had a way with children, and now I think I know WHY.
— You’re not allowed to ‘have your way’ with children, and the judge will explain why.
They know I RELATE to how they think and feel. Does that make me a childish adult? Just try it! All my adult life, kids and teens have come to me for advice. And found it extrememly helpful. But even if I think their parents are twerps, I’ll never say that to their child – too harmful, even if true.
— Boy, I sure hope Bristol doesn’t read this. Whose fault will her trauma be then?
But I won’t tell them the problem is all because they need to be “better, more obedient children” either. I’ll find a way to help the child COPE. Without dissing the parents. I genuinely love young people. They’re the hope of the future, but they’re also precious to watch, as they grow and learn and mature. To have a positive impact on their development is sheer joy to me.
— Are you sure that your name is Holly B.? It’s starting to look more like Michael J.; and I don’t mean Jordan.
If Bristol had come to ME with her pregnancy, I’d have never dreamed of denouncing her.
— Did her family do that? No.
I’d give her all the hope, love and support I could.
— Which is what her family did. And you criticized them for it.
But not being her mother, the DECISIONS about publicizing her plight were not mine to make. Nor were they Bristol’s.
— Because the best thing would have been to hide her and her shame from the world.
Even if she SAID it was OK for her mom to be the VP pick – how could Bristol, still a child, fully understand what all that publicity – which would inevitably be highlighting shame and giving her trauma a booster shot – would mean to her?
— Yeah. I mean, she’s less than a year away from being able to make 100% of her own decisions. Why should she be allowed to make even one now?
And with a judgmental family behind her, they’d give her no choices at ALL. Even “choosing” to keep the baby was NOT her choice at all.
— Yeah. You’re so caring that you’d support her deciding to kill it.
I know how she feels: like she’s in a room full of alligators.
— “Alligators in the sewers.”
Protecting HER was her mother’s duty. For a REAL mother, it should have been her PRIME DIRECTIVE.
— But the Prime Directive is to not interfere with — oh, forget it.
Nothing I could have said or done with Bristol could have spared her this, though I wish it could.
— Which means if you were her mother you would have failed her too; right?
All I can do is tell her, from a place like this, to “hold on!” Even though “this too shall pass” is a pitiful comfort, it’s all I’d be able to offer her. I only hope her mind is intact by the time she is a full adult.
— We’ll know by this time next year. See ya then.
I wish I could give her a big, nonjudgmental HUG!
— Give one to yourself, and then stop being judgmental.
And tell her that no matter what, there IS magnificence in her – she only needs to find it and build on it. When she gets a chance to, that is.
— When she escapes that evil harpy what raised her you mean.
Poor little kid.
Icy Truth (d9ccad) — 9/3/2008 @ 1:45 am— Exactly what I was going to say about you.
The funniest thing about you right wing morons is you actually believe you apart of the republican party and the liberals are the elites. YEEEEEEA we are making billions off of the enviornment and the war and oil OH WAIT!! thats the republicans!!! this elite crap is absolutely STUPID!! and said by absolutely STUPID PEOPLE!!! all the politicians are rich but the republicans are corporate greed RICH. ABOSLUTE MORONS ITS SICKENING!!! and you people actually compare yourselves to the founding fathers?!!? are you THAT STUPID!!! you were the people RESPECTING THE KING OF BRITAIN BECAUSE HE WAS THE KING (same thing you do for the office of the president)IN 1776 the LIBERALS WERE QUESTIONING THE TAXATION WITH NO REPRESENTATION, STANDING UP AGAINST ROYALTY, AGAINST FORCED RELIGION, LIBERALS WERE DECLARING INDEPENDANCE, WHILE YOU PEOPLE GOT PLAYED LIKE YOU GET PLAYED EVERY 4 YEARS!!!
AND as for the idiot who asked me if i was an expert at holding a baby…i am…i have 2 children, one is a newborn and you support their legs when you hold them you dont spread them out across your body because at 3 months with down syndrome im sure that kid cant support himself…SCHMUCK!!
christian (2f4f9d) — 9/3/2008 @ 6:57 amblah blah blah…
Or as DUtch would have said: “There you go again…”
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/3/2008 @ 7:01 amCitation please for the Founding Fathers being Liberals (you won’t find it and can’t support it, so consider the request pro forma). Second, if you’re SURE the kid can’t support himself being held the way he was SHOWN being held, how injured would you say he is and how evil must someone be for not taking him to the hospital? (Your “expert” status is not only self-fisking, your logic skills are as well.)
Finally, two last questions. Do they have Magic 8-ball on your planet, and if not, how do you decide anything? Also, you do realize the irony of your name here, right?
Stashiu3 (460dc1) — 9/3/2008 @ 7:12 am“…i am…i have 2 children”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 9/3/2008 @ 7:16 amThose poor kids being raised by someone so shrill and so incredibly stupid. Have a few more of these: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stashiu3:
Careful with the definitions there. The framers were indeed “liberals” back in those days, when “liberal” meant a very different thing from what it means in American politics today. Unless you favor a return to the monarchy, you’re probably not much of a “conservative” by that day’s standards, either.
Xrlq (b71926) — 9/3/2008 @ 7:52 amAND as for the idiot who asked me if i was an expert at holding a baby…i am…i have 2 children
Don’t get all snippy with me. I didn’t call you any names other than your screen name. You called me both “idiot” and “SCHMUCK.”
Since you are the only one I’ve seen on the blogs I read that commented on it, I figured you must know what you are talking about, so I suggested you describe the correct holding method.
So what’s the problem? Why did you find it necessary to portray yourself as unhinged, frothing, misanthropic madperson in your followup comment?
Paul (ac3cf3) — 9/3/2008 @ 9:03 amA momentary bout of honesty?
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/3/2008 @ 9:06 am