Watching the Post-Palin Polls
[Guest post by DRJ]
The Instapundit gathers links to three post-Palin polls: Zogby, Gallup, and Rasmussen. The Gallup and Rasmussen polls are 3-day averages and they show a good convention bounce for Obama (Obama leads in Gallup 49-41 and in Rasmussen 47-43). The single-day Zogby poll has it McCain 47-Obama 45, which suggests McCain’s Palin announcement blunted the Obama bounce. However, Zogby isn’t as reliable as Gallup and Rasmussen so I’ll wait a few days to say for sure.
Frankly, I doubt we will know what Americans think about Palin for at least 2 weeks. Very few Americans have heard of Sarah Palin and fewer still know her story. Articles like this People Magazine story and next week’s Republican Convention will help introduce her to Americans. The downside is it’s hard to introduce and get people to accept an unknown. The upside is there is a lot of room for Palin’s favorables to grow.
Of course, the real test will come as she is interviewed by the news media, the Sunday Meet The Press-type shows, and participates in the VP debate. Fair or not, it’s especially important that she comes across as accomplished and articulate given her status as a woman and a Republican.
Still, I can’t remember a political race that felt as much like a tennis match as this one. Each day brings a new volley that’s riveting to watch.
— DRJ
JFK was not that well-known, either. Was Jimmy
Carter that well known outside of Georgia?
I am not as convinced as you that this “experience”
thing is really the clincher. Palin doesn’t have
the experience of a Ronald Reagan but she has
more than Obama.
Do you know what the real clincher is? If the
message resonates and the speaker is articulate
enough to get that message across, that is what
will clinch it.
Obama is great with a prepared speech but his
message still does not resonate because it is
left of center. Without a prepared speech, Obama
is one of the worst speakers I’ve ever heard.
The man cannot think on his feet. Biden — well,
forget Biden, most everyone else will (until
he stuffs both feet into his big mouth which
I guarantee you he will do).
Palin is right down the middle along with most
other Americans and she is one of the most
articulate speakers I’ve heard in recent memory.
McCain’s speaking talents pale before Palin’s, as
well (but since they won’t campaign that much
together it won’t damage him).
So, unlike you, I think this is exactly what
McCain needed to do in order to have a chance
af winning in November. Despite conservatives’
problems with some of his policies, there should
be few gripes from them (and me) about Palin’s
stand on those same issues. Her energy policies
alone are guaranteed to mesh with what the public
at large wants.
I am convinced that this is the Grand Slam for
Arnold (1a3b0c) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:03 pmMcCain.
Naming Palin was a service ace.
Beldar (d1cc3d) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:19 pmI just want to say she is much more qualified than obama…
Obama have taugh constitutional Law since 1992..
State Senator of Illinois 12 million State – since 1996,,,
U.S Senator more than 4 years, sponsored whith GOP Sen. Lugar , a though Laws to keep Nuclear weapons from Terror. sponsored the State Children’s Health Insurance Program.
world leaders fear him as one of the most intelligent , articulated Leaders of our time.. created a Grassroot moviment that made him from UNDERDOG to NOMINEE.
Sarah Palin, has Been>
– Ice nowhere – Wasilla ( 6.000 hbt) Mayor
– 1 and half Alaska (Virgin Island who cares) Governor.
– Crazy to see her Husband driliing Alaska WildLife Refugee (we never gonna let you)..
Oh Sorry I forgot why she is prepared for POTUS—
– Beaty Queen Runner-up
Best Regard
Wasilla, Alaska (4da30a) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:29 pmWasilla, if you wanted to talk up Obama’s experience you failed. The best you can do is to repeat the nonsense about Obama sucking off others’ work with the nuclear weapons program with Russia ( and guess where that is right now by the way with Russia’s aggression ). Obama’s legislative style since Illinois state house is to get his name on others’ work. He is the least accomplished Presidential candidate since Pat Paulsen.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/30/2008 @ 10:32 pmWasn’t Ted Kennedy’s ex-wife the “Beaty Queen”?
Icy Truth (eaa5db) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:30 pmHere’s a slightly important tracking number: $7 million in campaign contributions during the first 24 hours since the announcement.
Icy Truth (eaa5db) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:35 pmLet’s not forget that in state population rankings, Alaska is two positions higher (i.e. has more people) than Delaware, Biden’s state.
James (09f36f) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:41 pmPlease… Keep attacking Gov. Palin… Pretty please…
You think use neo-con are fanatical when we defend Bush?
Attack one of our women. When SHE is done with you, we’re going to come “have some words” with you.
So please… Attack Palin… Pretty please…
Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec) — 8/30/2008 @ 11:51 pmThat’s the other way around, James. Delaware has more people. Alaska is 293 times larger in land area, however. And (people seem to forget this) it borders Russia.
Icy Truth (eaa5db) — 8/31/2008 @ 12:09 amMy mistake, I was looking at the wrong lines in the list I checked.
The important point that I was trying to make though is that criticism of Palin’s experience due to Alaska’s small population cuts at a similar level for Biden.
James (09f36f) — 8/31/2008 @ 1:45 amhttp://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html
Pollster John Zogby: “Palin is not to be underestimated. Her real strength is that she is authentic, a real mom, an outdoors person, a small town mayor (hey, she has dealt with a small town city council – that alone could be preparation for staring down Vladimir Putin, right?). She is also a reformer.”
“A very important demographic in this election is going to be the politically independent woman, 15% of whom in our latest survey are undecided.”
Hazy (d671ab) — 8/31/2008 @ 1:53 amI don’t think you read the Gallup poll correctly. Yes it IS 8 points but it has been 8 points for two days now. And one of those days was BEFORE The Messiah’s ‘devine’ speechifying.
So AFTER his speech the poll moved not at all. Not at all.
In Gallup’s explanatory section they say that Friday’s results indicated a slightly stronger Obama trend than before the convention but much less than the nights immediately preceeding.
The only conclusion possible is that the McCain announcement stopped the ‘bounce’ dead in its tracks. Obama will not start a slow decline back to about 46% of the stated voter preference. I expect McCain will rise to about 46-47% so it will be a tie once again.
Very bad news for Obama. Potentially very very bad. If Palin does not collapse in public she will deliver a killer blow to the Great Pretender’s campaign.
dougf (537b0b) — 8/31/2008 @ 2:27 amZogby’s analysis is just ridiculous.
“She is authentic …” Um, I will leave that alone because it is meaningless in the context of politics. Even the most privileged beneficiaries of political dynasties, like say Ted Kennedy or GWB, are authentic considering their backgrounds. Who else would they be? Meaningless.
“a real mom” … Is that a dig against John and Cindy McCain and the adopted kid you don’t ever hear about while the other one gets all the attention blogging and such? No one is questioning Obama’s or Biden’s parenting, so that’s just odd. Who is the fake mom being contrasted to here?
“an outdoors person …” Clearly a plus, no way Obama or Biden will be shooting or eating moose or such, for what it is worth. Some people will actually care about that. Most won’t care, in the context of the VP. The image of a sitting VP shooting a friend in the face with a shotgun is probably still fresh in some minds at least.
“a small town mayor (hey, she has dealt with a small town city council – that alone could be preparation for staring down Vladimir Putin, right?) …” I think this is meant to be funny but my heavens, it isn’t funny at all to compare an ex-KGB anti-democratic and belligerent despot with the ability to obliterate the USA via nuclear weapons with cranky ol’ Abe Lundquist from the east side who wants more traffic lights put up now that there’s a Wal-Mart going in.
“She is also a reformer.” In what way? With the Bush administration at record levels of disapproval, what would she have done differently, and what will she do in the future to reform things? I suspect we will never know, she is so lightweight and inexperienced that she will add nothing to the national dialogue concerning reform that the McCain campaign hasn’t scripted for her.
Eat it up, McCainiacs, as the press tries to paint her as someone exciting and substantial, but I personally haven’t felt more confident about an Obama victory in November since he topped the delegate count in the spring. I give it three weeks before even your base goes from “she’s new and wonderful” to “WTF was McCain thinking?”
Aplomb (b6fba6) — 8/31/2008 @ 2:39 amAplomb: You want some cheese with that whine?
EW1(SG) (625c58) — 8/31/2008 @ 3:48 amSour grapes- they would have preferred Leiberman or Romney to attack. Because, you know, those dirty Mormons are doing the work of the devil and are big on polygamy. The fact that Palin took on the corrupt party bigshots and won the governor spot says plenty about her. One wonders what the primary voters drink in their kool-aid to continue to kiss Sen. Stevens’ ass. I guess, like ex-KKK Grand Kleagle Bobby Byrd, he brings home the pork?
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/31/2008 @ 4:47 amPalin is what Hillary always wanted to be. A Self made woman. Instead Hillary road into office on her husbands name. One question. How many people were in the town Obama was mayor of?? What exactly is a community organizer?
Dennis D (ae900a) — 8/31/2008 @ 5:00 amHad to laugh at Jim Geraghty’s crazy prediction over at NRO. A month from now he sees Biden withdrawing from race with a sudden health problem, to be replaced by …..Hillary. ….the Torricelli Gambit. Wonder what became of THAT crook?
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/31/2008 @ 5:38 amNaming a relative unknown will be a real test of the new media, and the power of the internet. It places a tremendous amount of power in the hands of the political and news junkies to relate the ‘facts’ to others who are not so heavily connected.
So far, my own observations of this, listening to conversations and reading the various emails that get forwarded around, Palin seems to be generating a fair amount of positive buzz precisely because she is perceived as being more ‘normal’ and alot less of a career politician. She is coming off as alot less of an issues candidate and alot more of a ‘this is somebody I can relate to’ type of person.
ThomasD (1659da) — 8/31/2008 @ 6:20 amThe whole thing is just comic. The Dems could have had this in the bag by now. If it had been a Hilary/Obama ticket then the choice of Palin would have been perceived as too little too late.
But nooo, the Dem power brokers had to go with the their shiny new toy on top of the ticket, deep down hoping that nobody would notice what they really like is that he’s a stealth far left radical.
ThomasD (1659da) — 8/31/2008 @ 6:25 amObama = change he can’t do… (but has a record of changing his position after focus group)
Biden = can’t make change
McCain = changing his mind about the media
Palin = talks about change, made the changes,
Jack (d9cbc5) — 8/31/2008 @ 6:43 amand is now changing GOP politics.
Aplomb’s analysis is just pathetic –
“She is authentic …” Um, I will leave that alone because it is meaningless in the context of politics.
— Opinion polls consistently rate integrity and a sense that the candidate is genuine as the number one factor in a voter’s decision:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-03-11-candidate-traits_N.htm
— In light of this, it seems to be your assessment that is meaningless.
“a real mom …” Who is the fake mom being contrasted to here?
— No one specifically. Just pointing out that Palin herself is not driven by a career-above-all mindset.
“an outdoors person …” Most won’t care, in the context of the VP.
— It’s an issue of relating to the common man. Remember how Romney’s fake ‘lifetime-hunter’ claim came off as a huge negative?
“a small town mayor …” that alone could be preparation for staring down Vladimir Putin, right?
— 1) She is the governor of the state that borders Russia; remember? 2) Shades of “He’s a former actor. How is he going to stare down the Soviet state?” Not to worry.
“She is also a reformer.” In what way? I suspect we will never know, she is so lightweight and inexperienced that she will add nothing to the national dialogue concerning reform
Icy Truth (df70da) — 8/31/2008 @ 7:39 am— So, first you you ask “In what way?” admitting that you do not know her biography, including the slightly important fact that she became Governor by virtue of fighting corruption within her own party. Then, you do a 180 and declare that you know everything about her and dismiss her as a “lightweight”. I think we all know who it is that is adding nothing to the dialogue.
> The Gallup and Rasmussen polls are 3-day averages and they show a good convention bounce for Obama (Obama leads in Gallup 49-41 and in Rasmussen 47-43).
Good? The Rasmussen poll moved by 1 or 2 points in Obama’s favor. We’re talking range of error movements here. That’s not a bounce! 5-10 points – that would be a bounce.
Arthur (4879f6) — 8/31/2008 @ 10:59 amHe got a bounce whether we call it great, good, or minimal. Gallup showed the race in a dead-heat before the Democratic Convention and Obama extended that to a 49-41 lead by the end of the Convention, while Rasmussen says Obama got an expected bounce.
DRJ (7568a2) — 8/31/2008 @ 12:07 pmI would hardly call Pallins politics “Down the Middle” she is a extreme right winger.Far to the right of McCain. and remember McCain and one time was with odds with much of what she embraces and the segment of the party she represents
jm (95020e) — 8/31/2008 @ 1:04 pm^ And the point is what? ^^^
Icy Truth (df70da) — 8/31/2008 @ 1:10 pmjm – Can you be specific?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/31/2008 @ 1:19 pmWhat worries me most about Palin is her environmental policy (especially regarding drilling in the ANWR). I think it is evermore important for us, as consumers to support ‘green businesses’ that benefit the environment. For example, Simple Stop stops your postal junk mail and benefits the environment.
Clark (28f59e) — 8/31/2008 @ 2:31 pmFucking troll spambot!!!
Icy Truth (df70da) — 8/31/2008 @ 2:49 pm“Clark” posted his 2:31 comment at the “Sarah Palin Roundup” @ 2:24.
I guess in his circles originality doesn’t count for much; or, as much as his stunted understanding of modern industry will allow.
Another Drew (221871) — 8/31/2008 @ 2:52 pmShe has the thinnest political resume of any national candidate in modern history. What was McCain thinking?
Rick (04b3f3) — 8/31/2008 @ 6:14 pm#30:
He was thinking it would be fun to watch your head explode.
I confess, I’m enjoying it too.
EW1(SG) (625c58) — 8/31/2008 @ 6:30 pmNot really Rick, Obama is actually the least accomplished Presidential candidate of a major party in history.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/31/2008 @ 6:33 pmThe funny thing is the only real experience Palin has is her executive experience. She has 20 months as Governor of Alaska (680,000 people) and before that she was a Mayor of a town of 7000 people for 3 years, which has a pub pretty much as its downtown. Before that she a member of the PTA.
While Obama has been running a 19 month campaign (one month less than she’s been Governor), with 2 million donors, tens of thousands of volunteers and beat Hillary Clinton which should have been near impossible.
Before that he was in the US Senate for two years, previously Illinois senator for 8 years (population around 12.8 million people), head of the Harvard Law Review for 4 years and worked successfully as a community organizing. Not to mention his outstanding education.
You have to be seriously in denial to think Palin has more experience. However, I do think it’s fair to say a lot of his accomplishments are not solely Obama’s own, but you can say the same about McCain (there both in legistlatures where all you do is sponsor bills and help get them passed any good way you can). If 20 months of Governor trumps 12 years of national/state experience, does it trump 20 years? 30 years?
I think the bigger and actually more important questions are these for independent voters:
Is Palin more qualified than other VP picks to fill in for McCain or become POTUS if he dies or can’t perform his duties as President (he’s 72 remember)?
If she wasn’t more qualified than others, then why did McCain choose her over others when he promised first and foremost in interviews that his first priority in choosing VP would be the person most qualified?
Also if she’s more qualified, why isn’t Obama qualified with his experience, appeal and vetting over the last 19 months and his previous 12 years serving in national/state roles?
If she’s not as qualified as other VPS and was only chosen for rallying the conservative vote and appeling to women for the election, why did John McCain accuse Obama of putting the election first before country, when McCain may have just did the same thing?
The fact is when you start asking questions about why he picked her compared to other choices, what McCain has previously said about his VP choice requirements and what he’s been down on Obama for over the last couple months, he’s logically cornered from all sides. It really smells of serious hypocrisy.
Blake (7d1232) — 8/31/2008 @ 8:57 pmWell, if anyone would know the stench of hypocrisy, it would be a Liberal.
But seriously, why would anyone in their right mind want a job so incredible, that it was described by John Nance Garner as “Not being worth a bucket of warm piss”?
Or, why should we care why John McCain chose Sarah Palin, instead of one of the DC suits.
It’s not like he’s planning to die early (how old is his mother again?).
Of course, the cynic would say that he just bought himself some life-insurance – even the Wacko-Left wouldn’t be so crazy as to want to elevate Gov. Palin to Pres. Palin, would they?
BTW, when was someone from the VRWC picked up for assassinating, or attempting to assassinate, a President of the United States? Even Democrats get shot by leftists.
Another Drew (221871) — 8/31/2008 @ 9:08 pmTo Another Drew:
I like that point about the extreme left being scared to assasinate McCain if he became President because of Palin (unless of course they got her too and made Nancy Pelosi President), but unlike other Presidents it may not take that big of an event for her to become Potus.
The fact is McCain is 72 years old and has had four bouts with cancer. If he had picked a Huckabee or a Romney it wouldn’t matter so much since they have good experience, but someone being his second with virtually no experience is a worry. 20 months being Governor of the 47th smallest state etc, is not whaty I call a good backup plan.
Blake (7d1232) — 8/31/2008 @ 9:15 pmBlake –
The funny thing is the only real experience Palin has is her executive experience. She has 20 months as Governor of Alaska (680,000 people) and before that she was a Mayor of a town of 7000 people for 3 years, which has a pub pretty much as its downtown. Before that she a member of the PTA.
— Yeah, that’s hilarious! Don’t quit your day job, dude. Oh, and I guess that her 5 years serving on the city council and her time as Chairperson of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission just sorta slipped your mind, huh?
While Obama has been running a 19 month campaign (one month less than she’s been Governor), with 2 million donors, tens of thousands of volunteers and beat Hillary Clinton which should have been near impossible.
— 1) I wasn’t aware that the race was Obama v. Palin. 2) Subtract 19 months from his experience in the Senate. 3) Why should beating Hillary Clinton, the candidate with the highest negative rating (higher than Joe Biden) going into the primaries, have been impossible? Of course, minus any shenanigans she would have won, but that’s a story for another day . . . Nov. 5th, when she will, with all humility and tact, say “I told you so”.
Before that he was in the US Senate for two years, previously Illinois senator for 8 years (population around 12.8 million people), head of the Harvard Law Review for 4 years and worked successfully as a community organizing. Not to mention his outstanding education.
— It is outstanding, isn’t it? One might even call it elite. BTW, If someone held a gun to your head right now, you couldn’t describe what he did as a community organizer.
You have to be seriously in denial to think Palin has more experience.
— More executive experience? Absolutely!
However, I do think it’s fair to say a lot of his accomplishments are not solely Obama’s own, but you can say the same about McCain (there both in legistlatures where all you do is sponsor bills and help get them passed any good way you can). If 20 months of Governor trumps 12 years of national/state experience, does it trump 20 years? 30 years?
— 1) Who is comparing her experience to McCain’s? 2) Again, it’s Obama v. McCain, not Obama v. Palin. 3) This is not a math problem, as Obama’s nomination despite his thin resume clearly shows.
I think the bigger and actually more important questions are these for independent voters:
Is Palin more qualified than other VP picks to fill in for McCain or become POTUS if he dies or can’t perform his duties as President (he’s 72 remember)?
— One of you guys needs to ‘fess up and tell us who encouraged you to play the ‘McCain has one foot in the grave’ card.
If she wasn’t more qualified than others, then why did McCain choose her over others when he promised first and foremost in interviews that his first priority in choosing VP would be the person most qualified?
— Brian Williams asked him that today. Did you watch? It comes down to what qualities the candidate values most; once again, not a simple matter of just tallying up the number of positions held and years served. Look no further than Biden for proof of that. 35 years in the Senate, and he’s still a fish-eyed fool. Sharing his positions on the issues and his philosophy on how to do the job — that is why he chose her.
Also if she’s more qualified, why isn’t Obama qualified with his experience, appeal and vetting over the last 19 months and his previous 12 years serving in national/state roles?
— Because his positions on nearly every issue are just plain wrong.
If she’s not as qualified as other VPS and was only chosen for rallying the conservative vote and appeling to women for the election, why did John McCain accuse Obama of putting the election first before country, when McCain may have just did the same thing?
— No Harvard education here. . . . Well, I pretty much already answered that. He is putting the country first by choosing the best person, not necessarily the person with the most ribbons and medals on their chest (to use a military analogy), but the person he believes has the best personal qualities to do the job.
The fact is when you start asking questions about why he picked her compared to other choices, what McCain has previously said about his VP choice requirements and what he’s been down on Obama for over the last couple months, he’s logically cornered from all sides. It really smells of serious hypocrisy.
Icy Truth (5bcf70) — 8/31/2008 @ 10:14 pm— Not at all, but nice try.
Bleak –
The fact is McCain is 72 years old and has had four bouts with cancer.
— That’s right. He might not outlive his 95-year-old mother.
If he had picked a Huckabee or a Romney it wouldn’t matter so much since they have good experience, but someone being his second with virtually no experience is a worry.
— What is worrying is people that manufacture, perpetrate, and then perpetuate this lie that she has “virtually no experience”. Romney (whose government experience, BTW, is limited to 4 years as Governor of Massachusetts) eliminated himself because of flip-flops; Huckabee, who wasn’t even in the running, eliminated any chance by virtue of his ‘Obama assassination joke’ at the NRA.
20 months being Governor of the 47th smallest state etc, is not whaty I call a good backup plan.
Icy Truth (5bcf70) — 8/31/2008 @ 10:31 pm— 1) She isn’t a “backup plan.” She is his choice. 2) How convenient for your purposes it is to judge Alaska, which has a land mass larger than 22 other states combined and also happens to border on Russia, only on the basis of population.
Blake, I think law school is only three years and the head of the Harvard Law Review changes annually. But other than those two minor problems, your description of Obama’s time as head of the Law Review was spot on.
ROA (a11370) — 8/31/2008 @ 10:33 pmActually, Icy, let ’em keep it up with the whole “lack of experience” thing.
It draws everyone’s attention to BO’s even more extreme lack of experience. And for the top spot.
Why, some of the MSM have even started claim that running a freaking campaign qualifies as experience!
And even it is, look at the number of times BO has had to contradict his own staff!
I have hopes that, when people vote in private, they will vote against the reality here: BO is a empty suit that the DNC is trying to use as a cheerleader. And Pelosi and Reid demonstrate amply what the DNC would like, in terms of governance.
Eric Blair (642d37) — 8/31/2008 @ 10:36 pmEric, I am so confident that McCain is going to win, if I had a farm I would bet it on the outcome of the election.
Which is not to say that I’m necessarily right, just very confident.
Icy Truth (5bcf70) — 8/31/2008 @ 11:00 pmJust angry bitter mean-spirited and substance lacking-A convention starring a drag queen,a manchurian candidate who has earned the wrath of Nam vets for turning his back on MIAs and their FAMILIES(see Vietnam veterans against McCain-its all on tape my friends and now Suzy Homemaker -All of them ADULTUROUS-it was the most adulterous convention ever witnessed(Except maybe Romney and Huckabee)Throw in the extremists with the deniers and YOU want these ADUTERERS who let their underage daughters get raped(isn’t that what the GOP PHYLISS SHAFLEY CROWD calls it)Yeah we need these people controlling our abused constitution-may as well rip it up if these losers keep control.Remember the $9 BILLION in Iraq that Norm Coleman and Bush never held hearings on when it disappeared? A mere pittance my friends,a mere pittance.So McCain’s going to follow Bin Laden to the gates of hell? 7 years now didn’t hear him complaining when Bush said that killing Bin laden wasn’t important so now he thinks its important? Obamas been saying it for 7years unlike MCLIAR
lars siler (7dd446) — 9/4/2008 @ 12:33 amYou guys must really be scared if you feel the need to spew shit like this. Keep quaking; it’s good exercise.
Icy Truth (6189a6) — 9/4/2008 @ 12:43 amSARAH PALIN BIG REFORMER FOUGHT CORRUPTION–another joke the GOP want you to believe!!!She ran as a Republican against crooked Republicans in a Republican state-what was she supposed to run on-the PRO_CORRUPTION TICKET?She never gave the U.S.treasury back the $400 million BRIDGE TO NOWHERE EARMARK(which she was for)that money was reallocated for other ALASKAN EARMARKS-and she coddled Ted Stevens with borderline criminal behavior with the full knowledge of all Alaskans that STEVENS was GUILTY of selling out the taxpayers-the truth is that before the Democratic Congress cracked down on the excessive earmarks being doled out by the former REPUBLICAN CONGRESS and PRESIDENT-SARAH PALIN NEVER SAW AN EARMARK THAT SHE DIDN”T LOVE AND GOOD OL” ALASKA GOT MORE EARMARKS NOT ONLY PER CAPITA but more period than any other state in the union.GOP-GREEDY OLD PARTY
lars siler (7dd446) — 9/4/2008 @ 1:20 amlars siler #43 – MORE CAPS!
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/4/2008 @ 1:22 amHell yeah I’m scared!I want my country back! I want my constitution back! I LOVE MY COUNTRY! I fought for America,I bleed RED WHITE and BLUE-I want a healthy country healthy children less crime less division I want us to recapture our Jeffersonian roots;with healthy debates-your crowd doesn’t want that-so if I have to fight fire with fire and stoop to your level I’ll support it with facts, not the self-serving half truth opinions, which the GOP use!
lars siler (7dd446) — 9/4/2008 @ 1:33 amnot-the-drummer-from-Metallica wrote: she coddled Ted Stevens with borderline criminal behavior with the full knowledge of all Alaskans that STEVENS was GUILTY of selling out the taxpayers
— The entire state of Massachusetts has coddled their state Senator — guilty of manslaughter, for which he served ZERO time in prison — for 40 years!
Icy Truth (6189a6) — 9/4/2008 @ 1:34 amThat would be vehicular manslaughter in the 3rd degree,and is the main reason most Dems rejected him for the top ticket. I’m no apologist for Ted Kennedy, no more than I think Cheney meant to shoot that fellow in the face-and Kennedy’s actions after the fact,were certainly not cool-I think Massachusetts has politically forgave him more so out of the despair,and great collective grief over the assassinations of his two iconic brothers,as well as the Kennedy family’s national leadership and political philosophy.IN the sense that most Alaskans may have similar feelings for Stevens,I’ll say touche! on that point-but the dynamics of the Kennedy brand were much bigger, and had a greater impact on our country and nation’s psyche as a whole and involved moral failings and not stealing from the government
lars siler (7dd446) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:00 amthe dynamics of the Kennedy brand were much bigger, and had a greater impact on our country and nation’s psyche as a whole and involved moral failings and not stealing from the government
Are you really saying that Kennedy has never earmarked funds for Massachusetts?
Really?
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:03 amAnd now they should respond to this “She didn’t write the speech herself!” nonsense by reminding everybody of Biden’s plagiarism. Gloves off.
Jim Treacher (592cb4) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:05 amHow’s Obama’s health? Do we know?
Jim Treacher (592cb4) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:06 amno you said that -what i said is that SARAH PALIN ran against corruption in her own party, because it was politically expedient for her,and that is it-I don’t think she has a platform in this campaign on how she is going to eliminate the corruption going on in this current administration in virtually every DEPARTMENT
lars siler (7dd446) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:11 amlars siler #51 – SARAH PALIN ran against corruption in her own party, because it was politically expedient for her
and later:
how she is going to eliminate the corruption going on in this current administration in virtually every DEPARTMENT
So on one hand fighting entrenched corruption is easy, and on the other extremely difficult?
Apogee (366e8b) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:29 amYou contradict yourself.
anyways nice talking to you folks and thank you for giving me a chance to clarify my points.I encourage you to fact check my statements concerning the families of 303 MIA from Vietnam and wish you well however America turns out;as long as your vote is for what you believe in your heart,is best for the preservation of our GREAT LAND and leads us towards fufilling the promises that makes the USA the greatest nation on Earth ;then I hold your opinion in great esteem as different from mine as they may be
lars siler (7dd446) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:42 amno I asked you what is her platform for fighting the corruption that exists in nearly every DEPARTMENT in Washington controlled by the Executive Branch,and I’m telling you that she doesn’t have one-try read my statements rather than reading into them and then compare it to the Democratic platform on this cancer that exists in Washington-now if you want to single out specific insiders of either party tit-for-tat,sure we can argue about who is more corrupt-the thing is you don’t know enough about Palin (collective you) to tell me what her plans are to reform the corruption,that rot to the gills in virtually every Executive Department;now if you are wondering what Obama’s plans are,I suggest you educate yourself on this by accessing his site
lars siler (7dd446) — 9/4/2008 @ 2:58 amIf McCain wins, in less than two years Palin will have gone from being the mayor of a small town to being a heartbeat away from becoming the most powerful person in the world. That is far beyond being a scary thought. Republicans are the most brainless group of people imaginable.
ray hamilton (368bf2) — 9/4/2008 @ 5:46 amray hamilton
Then you suffer from a lack of imagination, or a mirror.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/4/2008 @ 5:51 amI think the GOP just bought the farm.
matt (876554) — 9/4/2008 @ 12:24 pmMcCain’s strength was with moderate men…like me.
I would’ve been happy with Lieberman or even huckabee. Huckabee has views I think are downright scary, but I think he’s funny and likeable. I think Huckabee has reasoned judgements. Mrs Palin is a hardliner, not very forgiving or understanding. She desires power a bit too much, and doesn’t seem to care for those who disagree with her.
matt – That was sooooooooooo close to being believable. Soooooooooo close. Keep trying.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/4/2008 @ 12:34 pmI have listened to and read Palin’s speech, history in politics, personal background, and no shortage of negative comments on her “lack of experience”. Palin and McCain, compared to the two on the other ticket, seem SO much safer and more sane a choice by any educated on the FACTS individual.
Holly in Idaho (978bd0) — 9/4/2008 @ 9:48 pmAlso, forget the Obama charisma for a minute. Remember what crazy black movement idealization he has embraced for 20 years, and his belief in the promise of America… and what he really means by that, and you should be scared silly. For President?? Come on!! He is not short on charisma. But charisma as President?… obama keeping his extreme leftist beliefs under cover, for now, gives me the creeps.
the Manchurian Candidate VIETNAM VETERANS AGAINST McCAIN-GOOGLE this and GOD BLESS AMERICA
lars siler (5e9b2d) — 9/4/2008 @ 10:07 pmAnybody who abuses their position of power to fire a former brother in-law and Commissioner simply because of a personal vendetta and not on the basis of job merits is unethical, untrustoworthy and unfit to be a heart-beat from the highest office in the Land.
Ragarding Palin (2206a1) — 9/8/2008 @ 6:30 pm“Ragarding Palin” – if you’re going to copy-paste something from Daily Kos, have the courtesy to include the link.
KTHNXBYE
steve miller (3c2c90) — 9/8/2008 @ 6:40 pmIs “ragarding” supposed to mean the same thing as “ragging on”?
Icy Truth (a7ead4) — 9/8/2008 @ 6:59 pmWould Sarah palin’s city council experience of a town of 5,000 (at the time she served) be a once a month meeting (as it is in our town of 75,000?) That would make it merely 12 nights per six years or 72 evenings. I’m just asking.
ardula (7c1309) — 9/9/2008 @ 10:16 pmYou’re just a tad bit late for this dance, don’t you think?
Icy Truth (f6198c) — 9/9/2008 @ 10:27 pmAnybody who abuses their position of power to fire a former brother in-law and Commissioner simply because of a personal vendetta and not on the basis of job merits is unethical, untrustoworthy and unfit to be a heart-beat from the highest office in the Land.
Wasilla resident on Palin (2206a1) — 9/10/2008 @ 4:34 amWasilla resident on Palin comes by and does the exact same copy and paste that Ragarding Palin did 2 whole days prior. The Kos Kiddies are out in force.
JD (75f5c3) — 9/10/2008 @ 5:24 amWasilla residenton Palin, why do you write things that are so transparently nonsense? Do you like people who taser their stepsons?
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/10/2008 @ 6:39 amI wasn’t aware that her former brother-in-law ever was fired. Is that a new development? or is this tard just having trouble keeping the lie straight? They should bitch at Kos for a new tinfoil hat; the old one is having problems.
Icy Truth (ce4e0f) — 9/10/2008 @ 6:50 amThis is classic Axelrod astroturfing.
JD (5f0e11) — 9/10/2008 @ 7:08 amAre these traveling Obamatard trolls endemic on other right leaning sites or was there a special call to hammer away at patterico’s? I’d like to from whence the IP addresses emanate, even generally geographically. Kind of reminds me when I was a teen in upstate Pa. and the GOP sent a crew of stodgy old farts around as the Republican Truth squad to counter JFK’s local speeches. JFK had charisma in my mind after I saw him, but that’s really just style over substance. Since then my BS detector lights up when encountering charlatans such as Obama. I don’t see what the attraction is that even got him elected to the US Senate, unless people are willfully blind to his history or want a friggin’ puppet of the Daley machine “representing” them. Replicants such as mario backwards/Peter/Love700ad and others might explain why they really fawn over O? Do they actually want a far left government, possess class envy, buy into the tax the rich BS, control business and what people should do and say?
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 9/10/2008 @ 7:09 amMy experience the past dozen years living in moonbat Palm Beach area is that liberals loathe free speech for anyone other than people who agree with them totally. I see the same attitudes and talking points articulated on this blog by leftists.
If Sarah Palin really is the loser that the media/obama campaign portray her as, you’d think they would ecstatic to have her on the ticket. I can’t see either Biden or Obama taking her down. if Mccain is crazy for picking her, he’s crazy like a fox. Imagine a veep choice of Tom Ridge? That would almost be as bad as Obama and Biden. It would have been quite interesting to watch a Obama/Clinton ticket win with the resultant Oral Office intrigue. If I were a dem I’d be pissed that the DNC likely threw away a victory by not having Obama serve an apprenticeship as VP under sHrillary. The arrogant prick magic negro might have been able to hide more of his warts and actual agenda. Still, who knows what crap they might throw out there in a desperate move to win? Can you imagine a Carter II or McGovern I Presidency and what havoc it would wreak on the country with Congress controlled by Reid and Pelosi, even with their ratings in the toilet?
Anybody who abuses their position of power to try to fire a former brother in-law and Commissioner simply because of a personal vendetta and not on the basis of job merits is unethical, untrustoworthy and unfit to be a heart-beat from the highest office in the Land.
Wasilla resident on Palin (2206a1) — 9/10/2008 @ 2:08 pm. Anybody who abuses their position of power to try to fire a former brother in-law and Commissioner simply because of a personal vendetta and not on the basis of job merits is unethical, untrustoworthy and unfit to be a heart-beat from the highest office in the Land. .
Wasilla resident on Palin (2206a1) — 9/13/2008 @ 4:12 pmWasilla resident,
You’ve convinced me Travelgate disqualifies Hillary Clinton to be President. After all, she’s the only person who has been shown to have abused her power in that manner.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/13/2008 @ 4:15 pmNow others, including Palin’s Husband, are subpoenaed too, still because anybody who abuses their position of power to try to fire a former brother in-law and Commissioner simply because of a personal vendetta and not on the basis of job merits is unethical, untrustoworthy and unfit to be a heart-beat from the highest office in the Land.
Many Wasilla residents and residents of thw World now know this. Please continue to copy and paste these facts as We, the American pepole do not want Palin around!
Wasilla resident on Palin (2206a1) — 9/13/2008 @ 4:20 pmWasilla resident,
Maybe you should correct the typo before you copy and paste these “facts” somewhere else.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/13/2008 @ 4:25 pm“Wasilla resident”:
Why does your IP address come back to Waukegan, Illinois, just north of Chicago?
Patterico (cc3b34) — 9/13/2008 @ 4:27 pm“Wasilla resident” is a 1, 2, 3, 4-time spammer on this subject, and those are just a few comments from September 10. Imagine how many others there are.
You really should correct that typo.
DRJ (7568a2) — 9/13/2008 @ 4:37 pmThe Moby’s are not getting any brighter. But given the morons running the Obama campaign, is it any surprise?
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/13/2008 @ 4:49 pmVery good discussions and points.
As someone who hates both parties equally, I feel I am uniquely qualified to weigh in.
Truth be told, after Prez B. I don’t think anyone could do a worse job. In that light, i’m not that worried about Palin or Obama.
My problem with McCain is that he choose Palin not because she would help him in the White House, he choose her to get to the White House.
The past 8 years have been absymal. The cronism, good ol boys club, flagrant disregards for rights, process, firing gov’t officials that disagree with the party line, etc is like a democratic nightmare.
I want change. Hillary, Obama, Snoopy, Sponge Bob square pants. I don’t care. Just give me change.
I like McCain. But fact is, Republicans had a choice between McCain and Bush, and they choose Bush. If they had any decency or soul to speak of, they’d vote for Obama as a way of saying ‘sorry’.
dgiharris (802257) — 9/15/2008 @ 6:09 pm80~
If you had any decency, you’d join VHEMT as a practicing member.
EW1(SG) (dd1b99) — 9/15/2008 @ 6:21 pmdgiharris, that is pretty silly. There is no “change” in Obama beyond a pretty logo and a faux presidential seal. He has zero record of pushing any reform of any kind at all.
But that matches the rest of your diatribe of exaggerations.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2008 @ 6:32 pmHi EW1(SG)
Wow, that is pretty extreme statement. Becuase I want someone different I deserve to not breed and die. My statement, “If they had any decency or soul to speak of, they’d vote for Obama just as a way of saying sorry”
That statement was part humor, sarcasism, and cyncism. It is not a slam against McCain, it is a slam against Bush. If you’ve seen any recent opinion poll, most Americans feel the last 8 years have been horrid.
SPQR,
Your statement, “There is no change in Obama” is an interesting one given that his entire platform is change. Of course, it is easy to say, where is the proof?
Look at his campaign. He has REDEFINED how you campaign. The revenue he’s generated, the media he has used, doing things that has NEVER been done before in a campaign (going overseas as an example) and his CANDID HONESTY in addresses and speaking about real issues to include race…
However, I think you are one of those people in capable of seeing any side but your own. In that respect, if I need to explain obvious facts to you (like the sky is blue) then I’m at a loss.
For the record, I like McCain, voted for him in 2000 against Bush in the primaries. But the ‘other’ republicans felt Bush was a better choice.
If we elect McCain all we will get is a competent Bush (I do not mean that as a slight).
If we elect Obama, we have a ‘chance’ at the kinda change we’ve all been dying for.
Is Obama full of crap? That is a very real possibility. But I will dare to hope. After Bush, how could he be worse?
As for my ‘diatribe of exaggerations?’ Really?
My statement “The past 8 years have been absymal. The cronism, good ol boys club, flagrant disregards for rights, process, firing gov’t officials that disagree with the party line, etc is like a democratic nightmare.” all of those are verified by CNN, FOX NEWS, Yahoo news.
Do you happen to own a Television? Have you turned it on over the course of the past 8 years. Hurricane Katrina? The Attorney General Firings? Attempted appointment of a Supreme Court Justice who has NEVER been a judge? Gas price increase by over 100%
Yeah, your right, I’m just a diatribe of exaggeration.
dgiharris (802257) — 9/17/2008 @ 8:05 amdgiharris – You will be happy to learn that the dictator otherwise known as President Bush is allowing a free and unfettered election to take place in order to facilitate the peaceful transfer of power from his administration to the next.
The idea that you are not committed to either party after writing that drivel is laughable.
Another effin’ MOBY.
JD (41e64f) — 9/17/2008 @ 8:10 amThat is you’re right, not your right. Diatribe of exaggeration might not be accurate. Verbal diarrhea, perhaps.
JD (41e64f) — 9/17/2008 @ 8:11 amWow…. So 19-month campaigns are what we want now? Really?
His fund-raising is huge. Sure.
So the guy with the most money should win? Only those who can yank in HUGE ammounts of cash deserve to run?
And his “candid honesty on issues like race” includes calling everyone who disagrees with him a racist, and lying about what he’s accomplished not only in his life in general but in the US Senate.
Yeah, what a great guy you got there.
I’ll pass.
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/17/2008 @ 8:11 amRacist
JD (41e64f) — 9/17/2008 @ 8:12 amYes we do. I can’t help but wonder if you do, however…
Involved mistakes from FEMA, sure, but it also involved the Gov of the state not calling for the NG, not deploying the NG, and the NOLA mayor parking a HUGE number of busses that people could have used to evac. Oh, and the idiot residents who decided that they could tough out a Cat 5 hurricane. That’s epicly retarded, I’m sorry.
Did you know that Janet Reno fired EVERY SINGLE ONE, and Clinton replaced them with his prefered people? Imagine… Firings in a US Govt Dept being politically motivated… I’m shocked, shocked that such a thing happens in that town!
So attorneys never have legal insight? It isnt’ even a rule that one has to have been a LAWYER to be on the bench, or even graduated law school. Ah well, at least we got a better selection out of teh Meyers mistake.
Yeah… about 70% of that increase was over the last 2 years… Hmmmmm… What’s happened in the last two years… I wonder….
Hmmmmmm….
Scott Jacobs (a1c284) — 9/17/2008 @ 8:18 amAs for Obama’s campaigning proving to me he is ready to be president?
My logic in citing his campaigning is that through this effort, he has shown me that he is different, sincere, and can think ‘out of the box’.
His speech after the whole race issue with his pastor was the first time, in my memory (past 30 years) where any politician has ever spoken to the American people on a national stage with such candor. As John Stewart from the Dialy show said, “He actually spoke to us as if we were adults”
And yes, I’m quoting a comedy show. If you watch the show, you know that in comedy there is truth, but i’m digressing.
As for implying that I’m saying Bush is a dictator? That is a nice debate trick, twist my position to something illogical then defend against that illogical position. I did not say Bush was a dictatorship, just implied that under his administration, things have been pretty horrid.
For right or wrong, the President gets the credit and blame for everything during his administration.
The Attorney General firings, Reno vs. Gonzalez. ANother nice try. All presidents fire and replace the attornies. That is nothing new. The difference is that the firings take place between administrations not during one, and the firings don’t involve people you previously hired. There are many sources that cite the firings as inappropriate and unusual, just use Google.
Gas price increases since BUSH TOOK OFFICE IN 2000 are all over the map. The highest in some places (and times) being past 100%, currently we are at about 60% – 70%.
My position is very clear, Republicans were in office for 8 years, the majority of which they controlled both the executive branch and the legislative branch, and things pretty much suck (if you are one of MILLIONS who lost a home, you probably don’t have much love for the GOP right now).
In terms of “So attorneys never have legal insight” It isn’t even a rule tha tone has to have been a Lawyer to be on the bench or even graduated law school…”
I don’t even know how to argue against such an absurd statement. If you are going to be appointed to the HIGHEST court in the land, damn it you better have every concievable qualification. PERIOD. Including: Prestigious law school, decades of legal experience on BOTH SIDES of the law, decades of judicial experience, and you must eat, sleep, and shit legal reviews 24/7.
That is very simple logic independant of “the rules?” If you don’t get it, then there is nothing I can say to make you understand the obvious.
given all of this, I want the other party in office.
After the Dems have a run for 4 – 8 years, I will probably want the Republicans back in office.
ANyways, me and my senseless, pointless diatribes have to go to work.
dgiharris (802257) — 9/19/2008 @ 9:05 amIn other words, you have not looked at the issues AT ALL. You don’t give a shit that Obama is a Marxist. You don’t care that he will take a fragile economic situation and topple it completely. That makes you the worst kind of voter.
Icy Truth (0b6250) — 9/19/2008 @ 9:20 amIcy Truth states, “In other words, you have not looked at the issues AT ALL. You don’t give a shit that Obama is a Marxist.”
I’m always amazed at how emotion clouds judgement and logic.
Notice you didn’t try to refute my ‘point by point’ reasoning as I have done to others, or as others have attempted to do to me.
Just lump everything together and say, “You are stupid, your views are stupid, and you are wrong”.
And the whole, “I don’t care that he will take a fragile economic situation and topple it completely?”
Hmmm… Let’s examine that statement. Which political party during the 1990s left America with a recession? Which political party took over after the recession and under their watch America rose to the best Economic prosperity in Decades? Which political party took over and currently ran this economy into the ground?
Tell you what, go ahead and google if you don’t know the answer, I’ll wait I have time…
As for being a Marxist? I don’t recall advocating for communism, unless you think Obama=Communism.
If you do, then I guess I have to end the debate there for it is beyond my ability to convince someone against that blatant ‘untruth’. LIke trying to convince someone that be-heading children is wrong. What can you say against somethign so absurd?
Is it possible Obama is the charlaton you and many like you fear? Is it possible he is full of lies and will not keep his promises?
Yes, it is possible.
Do I ‘believe’ it is likely. No. Why? Well, he comes across as sincere, and i’ve listened to some of his plans and proposals and the logic behind them. They seem sound. But more importantly, he strikes me as someone who can listen, who can influence and lead, someone who is intelligent and charismatic.
Now, the reason why I oscillate between Republicans (I voted for McCain in 2000) and Democrats is that between the two parties, we get the best course for America.
I believe we need a course correction now. The evidence is pretty overwhelming in my opinion. But there will always be those who fear change. It is human nature.
dgiharris (802257) — 9/19/2008 @ 5:49 pm