Patterico's Pontifications

8/21/2008

Speaking of Houses — The One Obama Rented in Hawaii for a week is worth around $8 million

Filed under: General — WLS @ 4:14 pm



[Posted by WLS]

The house is legal as a vacation rental, but only on a monthly basis.  The community where the house is located — Kailua — has had an ongoing internal battle for years over owners of second homes using them as “short-term” rentals — generally meaning houses that are rented on a daily or weekly basis.  Short-term rentals — like Bed&Breakfasts — are not allowed, unless specifically licensed. 

The house Obama rented is not licensed as a “short-term” rental, which means the owner can rent it only one time a month.  I don’t know for sure what Obama paid, but I know someone who rented a smaller house on the same beach on a monthly basis in the same basic area, and the monthly rental was $18,000.   The house Obama rented is much bigger and newer.

155 Responses to “Speaking of Houses — The One Obama Rented in Hawaii for a week is worth around $8 million”

  1. I’m sure there is a “Messiah-exemption clause”. If not, the Federally-mandated exemption is probably being drawn up now. 😉

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  2. Stashiu3 – I don’t know for sure what Obama paid

    Paid? Given that the messiah’s from Hawaii, I would bet that donating it would be seen as an investment. Just like Chicago’s.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  3. Do we know that Obama’s campaign money paid for it?
    I mean that’s whats being alluded here right? I could be wrong though.

    Oiram (983921)

  4. Actually, that’s an excellent point. Any difference between the expected monthly rental fee and what Obama paid (if anything) might be considered an in-kind contribution.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  5. No Oiram – I’m saying he paid nothing at all.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  6. Do we know that Obama’s campaign money paid for it?

    I don’t think so Oiram, but I find it an interesting question. The actual point of the post (as I read it) is that the house is not supposed to be a short-term rental at all unless specifically licensed as such.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  7. They pid Baracky to stay there. If they had noticed what happened to the properties where Baracky was a community organizer, they would know the he is not so great for property values.

    JD (5f0e11)

  8. The house is legal as a vacation rental, but only on a monthly basis.

    How do you know the owner can’t charge a daily or weekly rate as long as the turnover satisfies once-a-month rules?

    There’s reporting that he paid a week’s rent.

    steve (93953f)

  9. When Bambi gets a gift (such as the below-market-rate house in Chicago by his friend Tony), this is NO NEWS. We expect that.

    When McCain is asked a question of how many houses he owns and responds “I’ll get back to you,” IT’S ALL ABOUT THE CORRUPTION!

    Yee haw!

    steve miller (b589d7)

  10. Mccain’s wife’s investments should be off limits. Hell, it’s not even like they are his homes if tenants are living in them.

    Obama attacking Cindy Mccain after a week of stupid attacks on Cindy Mccain is motivating Mccain to take off the gloves. Obama is deliberately trying to goad Mccain into going too negative, but I think Mccain has enough factual information to attack with that Obama has made a blunder.

    Sure enough, we’ll be hearing democrats joke that their staff is getting back to them on obvious stuff for a while, and they will chuckle that Mccain is old and stupid, but they are counting Mccain’s CHILDREN’S houses as Mccains. Mccain doesn’t own any houses, and doesn’t really care about houses. that’s why he ignores that stuff. As Obama makes millions off his crooked dealings and ability to send taxpayer money to those who give Obama gifts, Mccain is (going to far) fighting crookedness in DC.

    The race is finally actually starting. Mccain did gaffe, but he’s going to go ahead with Rezko and Ayers, and probably save Wright until October.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  11. From the link in #8 – According to Obama’s campaign, the Hawaii-born senator paid for the 10-bedroom, 1-acre compound using his personal funds at “market” value to rent the home for a week for his family and friends.

    I hope it comes with fruit on the table.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  12. If he paid a week’s rent, but the terms require a monthly rental, then surely the extra three weeks that cannot be rented (would violate the 1x month rule) are then a gift to the campaign.

    Or am I missing something here?

    steve miller (b589d7)

  13. Apparently Obama paid for it himself,

    “According to Obama’s campaign, the Hawaii-born senator paid for the 10-bedroom, 1-acre compound using his personal funds at “market” value to rent the home for a week for his family and friends. The property is valued at $8 million.

    The campaign declined to provide the amount Obama paid, though rentals of that size in that area could go for thousands of dollars a night.

    Dana (084de8)

  14. McCain sounded like a douchenozzle when he didn’t answer that silly question about how many houses they own. Doesn’t matter. If he had answered, Baracky would have been saying the same types of things, about how someone with 4 houses is out of touch.

    JD (5f0e11)

  15. Dana – that was such a racist attack on Baracky. I expect better from you.

    JD (5f0e11)

  16. John should have answered “That’s above my pay grade.”

    Then everyone would have been happy. Because that kind of answer is thoughtful.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  17. I denounce myself, JD.

    Dana (084de8)

  18. steve, of course he can rent it for a day as long as he doesn’t rent it again.

    The point is that Obama lives like a fat hog, and Mccain frankly doesn’t.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  19. #14
    JD, you are so smart, you know exactly what Obama will say. Amazing :)

    Maybe you should run for president.
    Your not the “douchenozzle” McCain is :(

    Didn’t remember he had four houses…….. and he calls Obama elitist. Too too funny.

    Oiram (983921)

  20. Has Obama forgotten he rented it? Has he rented 11 others?

    David Ehrenstein (1d6679)

  21. We don’t know what Bambi is going to say.

    And often, when he does say something, we don’t know what he means.

    Because we aren’t allowed to question him. He is the Anointed One who will bring change, except for those pesky issues above his pay grade.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  22. It is hardly amazing, Oiram. Baracky is using the same playbook the Dems have used for decades. He just claims be be above it.

    Thanks for the vote of confidence. I think Prez is a bit above my pay grade.

    JD (5f0e11)

  23. Steve in #8 makes a good point though. It depends on how the rules are written. If nobody else rented that house within the 1-month timeframe, it doesn’t seem that it should be a violation. The only purpose of that rule would be to avoid the disruption of frequent turnover, not to require that every rental was for a period of precisely one month.

    Also, if it was paid for out of personal funds and not campaign funds, whatever deal he could get is between him and the rental agent/owner. Even if it was free, there doesn’t seem to be any quid-pro-quo involved. I can see an owner letting Pamela Anderson or somesuch stay free just for the publicity… why would Obama be any different?

    You can make the argument about the “appearance of impropriety”, but I don’t buy it for a second in this case. That’s something that Dems do… make accusations knowing there is nothing to them, but implying there might be. Does anyone really think this was anything other than what it appears to be? A semi-working vacation? Unless there is a clear violation involved, I think this is a good anecdotal post (and it never claimed to be more than that), but no smoking gun. Just my own opinion, YMMV.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  24. #19 Oiram,

    Please read Juan at #10 and think for a second. It sounds like the question could be answered in several ways depending on what you want to count as a “McCain’s house”. In other words, any answer was going to be wrong and used to portray McCain as out-of-touch. A sleazy political trick with semantics, no matter which side did it.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  25. How many houses does McCain himself own? I don’t know. Doesn’t the prenuptial he signed with Cindy say something about the properties?

    How many houses does Bambi own, and how is it that he got such an amazing deal on them from a known corrupt Chicago (but I repeat myself) operative?

    steve miller (b589d7)

  26. Whatever can be said about McCain, at least he didn’t lie about it. I remember Kerry being asked about how many cars he owned in 2004, and he said he couldn’t remember… but he was able to list all of them when standing in front of the UAW.

    Civilis (b81ff6)

  27. Maybe the houses are in the Cone of Silence, and he can’t hear the question?

    steve miller (b589d7)

  28. How many houses does Bambi’s brother in Kenya own?

    Oh wait, that would be none. Good to see that Bambi is taking care of his family.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  29. That was a silly question. Wasn’t Oiram whining about silly questions on another thread?

    JD (5f0e11)

  30. I’m sure McCain regrets his 100-years comment and last week’s comment that $5M is rich. (He even said at the time the latter comment would be distorted.) And while the Obama campaign can use in ads the fact the McCains own several houses, I doubt McCain wanted to give them a clip of him saying it.

    DRJ (a5243f)

  31. #19 – Oiram

    Didn’t remember he had four houses…….. and he calls Obama elitist. Too too funny.

    — Obama is an elitist because of how he acts, which is partly related to but not directly caused by his bank account.

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  32. Whereas Cindy McCain is a plain ol’ Gal of the People.

    David Ehrenstein (1d6679)

  33. “Obama is an elitist because of how he acts”

    And who he hangs out with.

    Hey, did you know John McCain is rich, or at least his wife is?

    Did you know he is old as well?

    Did you know he wants to reinstitute the draft? Yesterday’s discredited prog smear based on Dowdified editing of a McCain appearance.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  34. In which of 57 states does Obama want to own his next house?

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  35. Indonesia.

    Dmac (874677)

  36. Regardless of how many houses John McCain owns, I’m pretty sure that none of them have had Weather Underground terrorists as guests.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  37. Do you think David E wakes up and thinks about how he can beclown himself in a bigger way than yesterday?

    JD (5f0e11)

  38. #19, Didn’t remember he had four houses…….. and he calls Obama elitist. Too too funny.

    The difference is that the Democrats tend to see the accumulation of wealth and subsequent investment of that wealth (homes) as something inherently evil and elitist. In this case it becomes all the evidence the left needs to try and show how out of touch McCain is with the ‘two Americas’.

    The irony of course is the accumulated wealth of Obama has allowed him to also purchase a multi-million dollar home, pay for outrageously high tuitions at private schools and summer camps, let alone rent for himself, family and friends a week in a very upscale house in Hawaii.

    Given that McCain is in his 70’s and married to an heiress, and Obama is in his 40’s and already a wealthy man, it stands to reason that Obama will continue increasing his personal wealth and who knows where he’ll be financially in 30 years.

    So, while I personally find seven homes over the top, I don’t hold a begrudge anyone who is wealthy enough to afford to do so. Its their money, they worked for it judge?

    Likewise, I don’t begrudge Obama’s lavish spending either.

    But to use the seven houses statement as a sound bite to attack is ironic – especially when one considers the wealth of Soros, Clooney, etc., and all the other mega-wealthy Obama supporters…

    Dana (084de8)

  39. JD, he seems his only hobby currently.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  40. And which of those homes is used to domicile relatives, such as the elderly relative in San Diego? How is that “owning” a home?

    Please, Democrats. Post more ads like this. Imagine the return ad by McCain: “Bambi wants me to throw out my elderly aunt onto the streets of San Diego so she can live like his half-brother in Kenya.”

    steve miller (b589d7)

  41. p.s. But to use the seven houses statement as a sound bite to attack is ironic – especially when one considers the wealth of Soros, Clooney, etc., and all the other mega-wealthy Obama supporters… who of course only own ONE home.

    Dana (084de8)

  42. Dana – Associating wealth negatively with respect to Republicans and ignoring it completely with respect to Democrats is leftism 101. It doesn’t happen in the reverse, which is why it’s so insidious.

    Schadenfreude is the belief that “it’s not enough for me to succeed, others must fail.” Leftism is a study in its reverse, resulting in: “others must fail for me to succeed.” And that is where you find their energy directed.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  43. Dana – I’m hoping against hopeitude that the fundraising event with Georgie really happens.

    JD – the Troll in question’s typical morning goes something like this:

    – upon waking, immediately sucks on a lemon;
    – after lemon sucking, proceeds to ingest Ipiac, just enough to disgorge said lemon juice;
    – genuflects in front of recent issue of TigerBeat;
    – during walk outside to receive LAT, screams at local passersby (i.e. neighbors) who look vaguely threatening;
    – ingests daily dosage of Percoset, followed up with a chaser of Eye of Newt;
    – scans daily talking points from blogs such as FiredogHag, Crooks & Douchebags, and Arrianna’s HeyMyHusbandIsGayHowTheHellDidIMissThatOne OhMiGodISoundLikeaGaborSister.
    – after assimilation, begins to vent spleen in many directions.

    Dmac (874677)

  44. Apogee – Brilliant observation.

    JD (5f0e11)

  45. Of course, Apogee. I just felt that our friend at #19 may not have realized that. :)

    Republicans enjoy their wealth, are proud of their accomplishments and aren’t ashamed to say so. Its a living, breathing testament to a free market society.

    The left enjoys their wealth, are proud of their accomplishments but are ashamed to say so. Its living, breathing testament to them of those two Americas and they cannot reconcile their guilt and company line.

    Me? I like to think if I were as wealthy as O or even McCain, I would still be me and evidence my gratefulness at the frewdom to accumulate wealth by understanding more fully the immense gift of generosity – minus the unnecessary guilt.

    Dana (084de8)

  46. 5:42
    Cindy McCain is running for office? Who knew?!

    steve miller (b589d7)

  47. frewdom = freedom. oy.

    Dana (084de8)

  48. 7:14
    Yeah, I kinda got confused, especially when I thought about Mel Gibson crying “FREWDOM!”

    steve miller (b589d7)

  49. Dana – If you continue to worry about what our friend at #19 fails to realize, you will need to quit your day job and consequently be unable to amass the obscene level of wealth of our esteemed politicians.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  50. How could you worry about what 5:00 worries about? That’s generated by mescaline, I think.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  51. Cheeky. Someone reading that headline will get the wrong impression that Obama actually spent $8 million on a house! Come on, wls! Running out of anti-Obama stuff?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  52. Most people have adequate reading skills, love2008.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  53. I don’t think anyone following politics would think Bambi has the $8m house.

    He just has a house that Rezko gave him.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  54. Really, SPQR? Okay, where is the beef here?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  55. Oh, and we aren’t out of “anti” Bambi stuff yet. The night is young, and there is so much.

    Let’s look at his “How dare you question my patriotism” whine.

    JSM gets accused of having a vacation in the Hanoi Hilton (“he wasn’t really tortured”), and his response is – basically nothing, because there’s no need to refute it.

    Bambi gets accused of being a poor candidate for an executive office, and his response is HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY PATRIOTISM? Which is, of course, not the question that was asked. But he’s good at deflection. “When does a baby get human rights?” “That’s above my pay grade.” Like, he can’t just say “I don’t believe babies have human rights until they can say their own names” or “I believe babies have human rights at the beginning of the 2nd trimester” or whatever, but to take a “Present” vote on this? What’s he scared of? Telling the truth about what he believes?

    steve miller (b589d7)

  56. Dmac – Genius. Pure genius.

    JD (5f0e11)

  57. Amazing. The day after I tell you that your attack on how wls wrote his article was bad form . . . you do it again.

    RUSSELL: Man! That is NC.
    RUDY: NC? What’s That?
    RUSSELL: No class!

    [Remember the original Fat Albert?]

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  58. If that same interviewer from Politico had sat down with Obama and asked him how much it cost to rent that house, he would have received the same answer.

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  59. #53
    And is that what this post is about? Obama’s house or the house he rented for a week-long, deserved vacation with his family? I am getting confused.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  60. I suspect the “reason” for this post is that Bambi thinks McCain is elite for having houses worth millions, but that he also has a house worth millions, and he is not above living for a week in a house worth $8m. So it’s not that someone has a beautiful home worth a lot of money, it’s that JOHN MCCAIN has such a home. The nerve!

    Many of the houses owned by Cindy McCain are for family members to live in. You want John to throw Cindy’s relatives out of their homes so Bambi can sleep better in his own multi-million dollar mansion?

    steve miller (b589d7)

  61. love2008, most people figure out what the post is about by reading it. Try it someday.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  62. #57
    Come on Icy. You mean wls can stand a little criticism? But he enjoys hitting on “Obambi” :)
    I believe he is man enough, to speak for himself.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  63. McCain’s housing

    The gist is, Cindy McCain has made several purchases of homes. Some are for family members (other that her and John); some are for their own use. They are also investments. Many of them are condos, not the palatial mansions dreamed up by Bambi.

    Is Cindy McCain rich? Yes. Does she own several properties? Yes. Has she acquired them illegally, through graft, or as favors by corrupt and indicted political operatives (such as Tony Rezko)? No.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  64. Why don’t YOU be man enough to just attack the message and not the messenger?

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  65. I think this would be termed an example of Obama playing what is called the “Class Warfare Card.”

    Now we know Senator Aristoslacker Kerry has five houses, so he’s a relative piker even though Ter-ay-za has a lot more money than Cindy.

    How many houses does Howlin’ Howie own or Senator Rockefeller, or even Leaky Leahy?

    With all Obama’s money, preaching about charity and quoting from Matthew, his hypocrisy stands front and center with his failure to help care for his $1 a month half brother in Kenya or the school he pledged to raise up. Charity begins at home Mr. Obama and you’ve failed that test.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  66. By the way, I don’t begrudge the presumed nominee and his family a vacation, and I don’t care if he spent ONE MILLION DOLLARS on the rent.

    What I find ludicrous is how Bambi likes to live the life of the elite while pointing fingers at JSM. “Look at dat dreat big bad man.”

    steve miller (b589d7)

  67. #61
    I have read this post and I couldn’t find any serious point there. I mean, he doesn’t even know how much was paid for the house. If it was paid for at all. It’s always good to complete your investigation before posting it.
    I don’t know for sure what Obama paid,

    love2008 (1b037c)

  68. I don’t know what he paid, either. WLS (who, I believe, lives in the islands) speculates that given the rentals for similar houses in the area, the market rate is pretty high – $18k month. Divide that by four, and you get about $4.2k for a week.

    I’m pretty sure that he’ll get his security deposit back, unless someone broke a glass or something.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  69. love2008, I’m sure that WLS will be certain to lower the reading level of his posts in the future.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  70. Ok Steve. Just making a point.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  71. love2008, you could try understanding Hinderaker’s point.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  72. steve – They’ll be putting up signs, The Messiah Slept Here, and at least doubling the rental rate I have no doubt.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  73. #69
    You would like that, wouldn’t you?

    love2008 (1b037c)

  74. You are making a good point. We don’t know how much he paid. Part of the problem is that Bambi is pointing fingers at McCain as if McCain is the elitist, while he himself enjoys the jet-setting lifestyle of the rich and famous.

    Like I said, I don’t begrudge him a vacation. Given what his life will be like during the campaign and afterwards if he wins, this is probably the last time he’ll be able to spend time like this with his family.

    I honestly am puzzled at how he can think he’s not elitist.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  75. love2008, 7:59pm, uh, no. I’m not having any trouble understanding WLS’ point.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  76. #72
    Now thats something to talk about! LOL!

    love2008 (1b037c)

  77. Look. Peace in our time, right here on Patterico’s blog!

    steve miller (b589d7)

  78. #74
    Anyone who presumes to say “When I am president, I will….” is an elitist.

    love2008 (1b037c)

  79. #65 – daleyrocks

    I think this would be termed an example of Obama playing what is called the “Class Warfare Card.”

    — Wouldn’t it be fascinating to have a peek inside his wallet? Photos of Michelle and the kids, platinum credit cards, race cards, buy 10lbs of arugula get 1lb free card, illegally obtained drivers license, patriotism card, cheat sheet of common French and Spanish phrases, Daley-machine membership card, union card, class warfare card. . . .

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  80. love2008,

    The post was clearly to stimulate discussion, not represent itself as hard news since there aren’t any links in the post itself. I even defended Obama earlier in the thread. You’ve got to know that wasn’t easy, right?
    😉
    I’d say the post did what it was intended to do. That it mutated into something else is common as well, but the post itself doesn’t even imply Obama did anything wrong… if anything the rental agent/owner might have but IMO that’s unlikely as well. Wouldn’t you agree?

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  81. #78 – love2008

    Anyone who presumes to say “When I am president, I will….” is an elitist.

    — Therefore, you are labeling both of them as elitst; is that it? For Sen. Obama certainly has used that phrase:

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200807220005

    — I just hope that you consider it a reliable source.

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  82. Sorry for the redundancy in #79. A union membership card, of course, is a class warfare card.

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  83. Conservatives want you to succeed and live well. After liberals make obscene amounts of money, they preach that YOU should live a modest, limited luxury-free existance. For the good of the people.

    You can bet your last dollar, love2008, that Barack Hussein Obama will make sure you and your family can NEVER afford a week in an $8M vacation home. Or an $800,000 home. You should be angry your candidate dictates that … not that he stays where you can’t.

    Figure that out before you rip WLS on the meaning of a post.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  84. I think Obama’s point about multiple McCain houses is effective at showing the McCains could be out-of-touch with regular people, but I don’t think it hurts McCain with everyone. Most people want wealth and not all Americans are so selfish that they feel resentful when someone has more than they do.

    McCain’s response has been to point out Rezko’s connection to Obama’s house and the suspicious circumstances of that assistance, and I think that’s also been effective. I also think McCain should consider addressing the topic directly. My choice would be for him to raise it in a campaign stop where he could state that his wife’s family is fortunate to have wealth and that they’ve used it to provide for family members, make investments, and help others through charitable work.

    DRJ (a5243f)

  85. #80
    Yes you did. Really appreciate the gesture. And yes. I agree with you, Obama is not to blame for having a nice time out with family. In that case, wls is ok. But tell me, has the mutation already begun?

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  86. Right around post # 7:21 pm

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  87. DRJ,

    If his wife’s trust owns and/or trades properties without notifying McCain, then his hesitancy in reply makes perfect sense. He does not have a typical joint property arrangement and his signature or knowledge of property transactions is simply not required.

    Rick Ballard (0a8990)

  88. McCain, unfortunately, didn’t understand the question & thought he was being asked something akin to “how much is in your checking account right now?”

    He was really being asked, “how many MANSHUNS are you using as you jet around the country with your SECOND, BUT RICH WIFE?”

    He really ought to try the “that’s above my pay grade” response.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  89. Ask Bambi to count the number of Marxists that are personal friends of his.

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  90. Yes I do consider myself some kind of an Elitist. Yes, yes I denounce myself.

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  91. He really ought to try the “that’s above my pay grade” response.

    — And, considering that it’s Cindy who has the money, he’d be telling the truth!

    Icy Truth (f4d960)

  92. Give props to men everywhere whose wives control the family finances.

    And love, no fair having a sense of humor! It’s starting to make you likeable.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  93. That’s a good point, Rick, and I realize the Hensley family has been protective of their information with the public. But I can’t believe Cindy McCain has not shared information with her husband’s campaign. It’s too dangerous not to fully vet that kind of information, and after the 2000 GOP primary the McCains know that everything is fair game.

    DRJ (a5243f)

  94. #86
    Don’t you just love it when that happens? :)

    love2008 (0c8c2c)

  95. DRJ,

    McCain returned a nice forehand smash into Obama’s teeth concerning Chateau Rezko – I wouldn’t be surprised if he follows with a rather thorough explanation regarding treating the Hensley Trusts as blind trusts.

    Obama is just plain stuck on stupid at the moment. There’s no hurry.

    Rick Ballard (0a8990)

  96. If his wife’s trust owns and/or trades properties without notifying McCain, then his hesitancy in reply makes perfect sense. He does not have a typical joint property arrangement and his signature or knowledge of property transactions is simply not required.

    Keeping in mind that the question was how many houses he and his wife own, this is exactly right. Had the question been “How many houses do you own?” I’m willing to bet that McCain would have that answer quite handy as the number is zero.

    John McCain’s family owns at least eight properties — not the seven Democrats are alleging or the four McCain’s staff identified — according to a Politico analysis of property and tax records, as well as interviews.

    The presumptive Republican nominee, though, may have some wiggle room in explaining why he couldn’t immediately provide an answer when asked by Politico how many houses he and his wife, Cindy, own. Sen. McCain himself does not own any of the properties. They’re all owned by Cindy McCain, her dependent children and the trusts and companies they control.

    The McCains have a prenup that keeps their finances separate. Given that Cindy is filthy rich, and that some of the houses are investment properties or the residences of family members, it isn’t any more surprising that McCain doesn’t know how many of them there are than it is that he doesn’t know how many pairs of shoes she owns. Which I’ll bet he doesn’t.

    This leads me to another point, which is that the Obama attack ad claiming that McCain owns 7 houses is a lie. He owns none, his wife owns 8. She owns a whole lot of other stuff that isn’t his too. They are not a joint property couple.

    Pablo (99243e)

  97. love2008 –

    “Take away … the 10-bedroom home rental, ….”

    Hmmm.

    “Not so pricey”, eh?

    jim2 (a9ab88)

  98. And the McC’s spent a quarter million $ on household help last year.
    Servants

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11477_Page2.html

    And remember this?

    But he took more questions, including a pointed one on his immigration plan.
    McCain responded by saying immigrants were taking jobs nobody else wanted. He offered anybody in the crowd $50 an hour to pick lettuce in Arizona.
    Shouts of protest rose from the crowd, with some accepting McCain’s job offer.
    “I’ll take it!” one man shouted.
    McCain insisted none of them would do such menial labor for a complete season. “You can’t do it, my friends.”
    Some in the crowd said they didn’t appreciate McCain questioning their work ethic.
    “I was impressed with his comedy routine and ability to tap dance without music. But I was impressed with nothing else about him,” said John Wasniewski of Milwaukee. “He’s supposed to be Mr. Straight Talk?”

    JAR (b249e3)

  99. And the McC’s spent a quarter million $ on household help last year.
    Servants

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11477_Page2.html

    JAR (b249e3)

  100. ^ Wow. People working for money. We know Obama won’t promote THAT. OPEN YOUR WALLET.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  101. McCain, who has portrayed Obama as an elitist, is the son and grandson of admirals. The Associated Press estimates his wife, a beer heiress, is worth $100 million. Obama was raised by a single mother who relied at times on food stamps, and went to top schools on scholarships and loans. His income has increased from book sales since he spoke at the 2004 Democratic convention.”

    JAR (b249e3)

  102. JAR –

    “His income has increased from book sales since he spoke at the 2004 Democratic convention”, and his housing increased thanks to Rezko.

    Just thought I’d help.

    jim2 (6482d8)

  103. Rezko
    I’ll raise you a Keating.

    JAR (b249e3)

  104. The only thing John McCain got from Keating was grief.

    Another Drew (72bbba)

  105. campaign contributions, son.
    campaign contributions.

    JAR (b249e3)

  106. Hey, JARhead,

    “McCain, who has portrayed Obama as an elitist, is the son and grandson of admirals.
    — Career military men? How . . . dare he be related to such hoity-toity types?

    The Associated Press estimates his wife, a beer heiress, is worth $100 million.
    — Too bad she didn’t become an heiress post-Obama, huh? Otherwise, she could have helped balance the budget by contributing 75% of her inheritance to the federal coffers.

    Obama was raised by a single mother who relied at times on food stamps, and went to top schools on scholarships and loans.
    — I hear that occasionally she actually worked for living, too.

    His income has increased from book sales since he spoke at the 2004 Democratic convention.
    — That’s right; he’s been up there with the rich elite for awhile now.

    Obama is an elitist because of how he behaves, not because of where he came from. He is a political elitist of the “we need to take care of you because you are not capable of doing it yourselves” school of Socialist income-redistribution philosophy.

    Icy Truth (48f459)

  107. And the economy is doing just great!
    How’s your mortgage?

    I wish Obambi were a socialist, but he isn’t.
    He sucks, but he’s all we’ve got at the moment.

    JAR (b249e3)

  108. JAR,

    Why do you say Obama sucks? Is it a specific policy or is it that you think he’s a weak candidate?

    DRJ (a5243f)

  109. JAR – #105

    Nope, the pot’s still light.

    jim2 (a9ab88)

  110. I wish Obambi were a socialist, but he isn’t.

    — You are correct. He’s a capital “S” Socialist.

    Icy Truth (48f459)

  111. “Why do you say Obama sucks?”
    I’m a socialist, why wouldn’t I think that?

    I don’t think the US is the center of the universe and I have no respect for those who do. I believe in taxing the rich heavily the middle class less and the poor even less. I think government should provide services for the taxes we pay, and I’m sick of people whining about big government who live off it. I’m referring to the die hard republican southern US which sucks money from NY and California and then comes back with sermons and lectures. I don’t like privatizing government services, including the army. I don’t like Mercs. War profiteers should be executed.

    On Israel, on foreign policy Obama is unfailingly “moderate” which means he sucks. “An undivided Jerusalem?” Against US policy to this point. On Georgia he’s been an idiot, but McCain has come off as an ignorant lunatic. McCain scares me. Bush is a brain dead cokehead and no we get an idiot whose claim to fame is surviving 6 years in a dungeon. No that does not inspire confidence in the man’s ability to reason.

    Obama’s a slick American politician, and the democrats haven’t had one of them since Clinton. Of course to get elected you need to be all those things, but I don’t trust him to rise above them enough to impress me.
    But on all these accounts McCain is far worse.

    I vote, and I’ll vote for Obama, but I don’t jump on bandwagons.

    JAR (b249e3)

  112. JAR — 8/22/2008 @ 1:43 pm
    McCain’s an idiot whose claim to fame is surviving 6 years in a dungeon.

    And Obama’s claim to fame?
    a slick American politician

    JAR’s claim to fame:
    I vote, and I’ll vote for Obama, but I don’t jump on bandwagons.

    Looks like it’s change you can’t believe in. How honestly dishonest.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  113. Comment by JAR — 8/22/2008 @ 1:43 pm

    Wowsa. I disagree with just about everything you said there. That you say it without the “foaming at the mouth” hysteria and anger (except the BDS-tinged BS) we usually see is appreciated.

    Let’s see:

    I don’t think the US is the center of the universe and I have no respect for those who do.

    Not the center of the universe, but is there anyplace better on Earth? (Besides, everyone knows Paris Hilton is the center of the universe… pffft! 😉 ) If you think so, where and why?

    I believe in taxing the rich heavily the middle class less and the poor even less.

    Poor economics and unfair, but apparently your priority is social engineering. I don’t know that we’ll be able to discuss this without talking past each other.

    I think government should provide services for the taxes we pay, and I’m sick of people whining about big government who live off it.

    I agree with this, but for what are probably different reasons. Cut most government services and taxes and the size of government will decrease (if we make them stick to what they collect in revenue anyway). Now, who in a socialist system is not living off the government?

    I’m referring to the die hard republican southern US which sucks money from NY and California and then comes back with sermons and lectures.

    I’m somewhat lost here without something showing why you think southern states take money from NY and CA when it’s more likely the opposite is true. Also, the rhetoric goes both ways and the MSM promotes the sermons and lectures of NY and CA while minimizing the south.

    I don’t like privatizing government services, including the army. I don’t like Mercs. War profiteers should be executed.

    Of course not, you’re a socialist. I think most government services should be privatized. We don’t use mercenaries (please don’t trot out Blackwater, Halliburton, etc… they’re not and you know it.) War profiteers… I do not think this means what you would like it to mean.

    On Israel, on foreign policy Obama is unfailingly “moderate” which means he sucks. “An undivided Jerusalem?” Against US policy to this point.

    We agree that Obama sucks on foreign policy. I honestly don’t know if you think he’s too “anti-Israel” or “pro-Israel”. You’ll need to be clearer on this point I’m afraid.

    On Georgia he’s been an idiot, but McCain has come off as an ignorant lunatic. McCain scares me.

    I thought McCain did better than Obama, but as a socialist I guess you would not like anything criticizing Russia’s action. McCain probably should scare you in fact… that’s a feature, not a bug.

    Bush is a brain dead cokehead and no we get an idiot whose claim to fame is surviving 6 years in a dungeon. No that does not inspire confidence in the man’s ability to reason.

    *Sigh* If you really believe this about President Bush, what does it say about your system that he runs circles around it? Now, I don’t have a lot of confidence in McCain’s ability to reason… and I certainly don’t trust him enough to ever vote for him, but “claim to fame”? Really? That’s pretty weak, even for a socialist.

    Obama’s a slick American politician, and the democrats haven’t had one of them since Clinton. Of course to get elected you need to be all those things, but I don’t trust him to rise above them enough to impress me.

    Agree completely… would add that Hillary and McCain fall into that mold (IMO) as well.

    But on all these accounts McCain is far worse.

    Meh… toss-up on most, advantage McCain on a couple.

    I vote, and I’ll vote for Obama, but I don’t jump on bandwagons.

    I vote, but won’t vote for Obama or McCain. Bandwagons? What else could you describe socialism as for goodness sake?

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  114. JAR-JAR,

    I don’t think the US is the center of the universe and I have no respect for those who do.
    — Just think how long the ballot will be when you’re voting for a one-world-government leader. [Can you imagine the cacophony when they call for a voice-vote in that legislature?]

    I believe in taxing the rich heavily the middle class less and the poor even less.
    — Good thing, then, that this is the way things already are.

    I think government should provide services for the taxes we pay,
    — There it is. What all liberals think, but most restrain themselves from expressing publicly: As long as we’re giving a chunk of money to the government, we might as well get something for it. How about the concept of having the government take less of your money away from you?

    and I’m sick of people whining about big government who live off it. I’m referring to the die hard republican southern US which sucks money from NY and California and then comes back with sermons and lectures.
    — That’s very specific, and yet it still means nothing. What is this money that the Southern suckers suck away from the ‘suckers’ in the two most populous (and by no coincidence — blue) states in the US?

    I don’t like privatizing government services, including the army. I don’t like Mercs. War profiteers should be executed.
    — Well, as long as you’re prepared to be reasonable about it.

    On Israel, on foreign policy Obama is unfailingly “moderate” which means he sucks. “An undivided Jerusalem?” Against US policy to this point. On Georgia he’s been an idiot, but McCain has come off as an ignorant lunatic. McCain scares me.
    — For Obama you give specifics; for McCain, a non sequiter. Hmmm.

    Bush is a brain dead cokehead and [now] we get an idiot whose claim to fame is surviving 6 years in a dungeon. No that does not inspire confidence in the man’s ability to reason.
    — Yeah, it’s too bad that he doesn’t have … oh, say a 26 year record in the Congress of the United States that you could refer to.

    Obama’s a slick American politician, and the democrats haven’t had one of them since Clinton.
    — How . . . dare you say that John “Lurch” Kerry wasn’t slick!

    Of course to get elected you need to be all those things, but I don’t trust him to rise above them enough to impress me.
    — You have to be “all” of what things? “slick” and a Clinton?

    But on all these accounts McCain is far worse.
    — You’re correct. He is neither slick enough nor ‘Clintony’ enough.

    I vote, and I’ll vote for Obama, but I don’t jump on bandwagons.
    — You must have been standing out in the street and gotten run over by this one.

    Icy Truth (48f459)

  115. The richest states pay more to the Feds than they receive. This has been true for a long time. It’s not news and I’m not complaining about it, but the Southern US is subsidized by my taxes I’m I’m sick of the whining by republicans.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/29/nyregion/29economy.html

    If the tristate region seceded and established itself as a separate country, it would replace the United States as the second-wealthiest nation in the world behind Luxembourg in terms of per capita income, according to a new study by Rutgers University.
    Given their wealth and the nation’s progressive tax system, taxpayers in Connecticut, New York and New Jersey pay a disproportionately high share of the nation’s federal income and employment taxes, the study found. Those states rank 49th, 40th and 50th, respectively, in the amount of federal aid they receive per tax dollar, according to the study.

    JAR (b249e3)

  116. Here’s a good one of Georgia. Anatol Lieven

    And Tom Friedman isn’t bad either. But of course McCain’s go to guy is a paid lobbyist for Georgia. And McCain shot his mouth off before he know what the f was going on.
    he’s a hothead and an idiot.

    JAR (b249e3)

  117. BTW JAR, what type of tax system is it where the top 10% of income earners pay 90% of the income taxes received by the Fed. Govt.?

    Another Drew (72bbba)

  118. Comment by JAR — 8/22/2008 @ 2:53 pm

    The richest states pay more to the Feds than they receive.

    Which is what you wanted as a socialist… ok, check.

    It’s not news and I’m not complaining about it, but the Southern US is subsidized by my taxes I’m I’m sick of the whining by republicans.

    Here’s where you lose me. If I grant your premise, because they are “subsidized”, they shouldn’t “lecture” and give “sermons”? So, whoever pays the most should be the only voice and those who pay less or don’t pay should not be talking or complaining. How does that reconcile with socialism where everyone is supposed to be equal no matter how much they pay? They pay because it’s owed, right? Not because they’re better or right. Seems a contradiction to me.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  119. #118 – JAR

    The richest states pay more to the Feds than they receive. This has been true for a long time.

    — For a long time? It’s always been true:
    16th Amendment – The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

    It’s not news and I’m not complaining about it, but the Southern US is subsidized by my taxes [and] I’m sick of the whining by republicans.

    — If you’re not complaining about it, why did you include that quote from the NYT? And, Who are these Republicans, and What are they whining about?

    Icy Truth (48f459)

  120. Comment by JAR — 8/22/2008 @ 2:54 pm

    And McCain shot his mouth off before he know what the f was going on.

    Because he wasn’t asked questions by the MSM, right? If he had said nothing, you would accuse him of being clueless. If he said that we should wait until we get a clearer picture of what’s going on, you would accuse him of being clueless. If he gives an answer, it’s too soon to know and he’s “shooting off his mouth” which means he’s… clueless.

    Sensing a trend here.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  121. Stashiu3 — 8/22/2008 @ 3:13 pm
    Sensing a trend here.

    Sorry, but I see no organization of thought whatsoever.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  122. Comment by Apogee — 8/22/2008 @ 3:20 pm

    Sorry, but I see no organization of thought whatsoever.

    Unless you remember that he’s a socialist… in which case the contradictions are inherent and should be expected. Anyone who espouses a system that fails everywhere it’s tried cannot be expected to adhere to linear, goal-oriented, and logical thoughts.

    It’s like anarchists… they would never survive if their beliefs were put into practice. What they really want is permission to do anything they like without consequence while everyone else plays by current rules.

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  123. Stashiu3 — 8/22/2008 @ 3:31 pm

    So you’re saying that the illogical contradictions are a logical conclusion?

    Apogee (366e8b)

  124. For DRJ – “So you’re saying there’s a chance.”

    Apogee (366e8b)

  125. Comment by Apogee — 8/22/2008 @ 3:52 pm

    So you’re saying that the illogical contradictions are a logical conclusion?

    It’s a logical conclusion for us to expect them to have illogical contradictions. 😉

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  126. #29 JD, Not such a silly question when Obama is the one being portrayed as “Elitist”.

    Is it 7 homes or 9 that he owns?

    Who ever said “At least McCain didn’t lie about it” I agre with.

    But at the very least we should expect a presidential answer to a question, even if you think it was a dumn one.

    oiram (08ed42)

  127. Boy, this thread has gone all over. The answer to how many houses is (a) none myself, but (b) my wife’s trust owns several that (c) are used to house family members and (d) as investments.

    steve miller (e40bf1)

  128. Plus, he could answer “That’s above my pay grade” and satisfy some people here.

    Or he could answer, “I have several. How many does Bambi’s half-brother in Kenya own?”

    steve miller (e40bf1)

  129. Stalag13 says:
    “Unless you remember that he’s a socialist… in which case the contradictions are inherent and should be expected. Anyone who espouses a system that fails everywhere it’s tried…”

    By which you mean the tragedy of Sweden I assume.
    Or Canada under Trudeau?
    There’s a long list kiddo. Including at least one governor of the state of Minnesota

    “Because he wasn’t asked questions by the MSM, right? If he had said nothing, you would accuse him of being clueless. If he said that we should wait until we get a clearer picture of what’s going on,”

    A lot of people knew what was going on. All you had to do was pay attention. McC. was listening to a paid flack for one of the combatants.

    “So, whoever pays the most should be the only voice and those who pay less or don’t pay should not be talking or complaining.”

    No. Campaigning against big government while living off its services is silly. But the economic conservative republican leadership plays politics for the social conservative vote.

    As I said above, paying attention helps. You should try it sometime

    JAR (b249e3)

  130. Does JAR ever actually add anything?

    JD (5f0e11)

  131. Yes.
    Facts.

    JAR (b249e3)

  132. What’s so great about Sweden? They have big problems with Muslim immigranion, but as far as socialism goes, also very high taxes and problems finding work for people. Atleast that’s what Swedes have told me. Their own citizens cannot afford Volvos and Saabs and make do withAsian imports. France has elected a leader steering them away from socialism and the nightmare inherent in hiring anyone it was impossible to fire. I don’t know about Swedish health care, but know that Canada and Ireland health care is so great that many citizens flock to US for timely and comprehensive health care. I don’t know about Cuban quality, but if Sicko director goodyear blimp-ss Moore thinks it is so fine, why doesn’t he get his medical stuff there?
    Also, my understanding was that the powers that be here are unhappy with us when we mutate monikers. DRJ recently chastised someone for calling Stashi3u Satan. I doubt that Stalag13 is an improvement. I’ve refrained from toying with your name.I do enjoy using various terms of endearment for liberal icons and even use Juan for RINO McCain.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  133. I love the delusional twatwaffles.

    JD (5f0e11)

  134. JAR has nothing except Godwin. He can’t respond coherently to a real point and resorts to name-calling and propaganda. Sweden? Please.

    JAR, you can keep the “kiddo” to yourself as well. You may be older than I am (doubtful), but certainly not enough to justify that. I applaud you having the courage to admit you’re a socialist. I have to question the wisdom of espousing a system that has failed everywhere it has been implemented.

    Campaigning against big government while living off its services is silly.

    No, silly is when you paint the south with such a broad brush that everyone is “living off of” big government services. “Living under” might have been more accurate, but then campaigning against it wouldn’t be silly, would it? You’re obviously not interested in having a reasonable discussion as I went far out of my way to be respectful to your position, no matter how ignorant and cultish is was.

    As I said above, paying attention helps. You should try it sometime

    Now we’re talking some serious projection!

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  135. *no matter how ignorant and cultish it was.

    (Preview isn’t working)

    Stashiu3 (460dc1)

  136. JD @ 11:23…

    Bigot!

    Another Drew (11dd7a)

  137. Give me data on health care, not hearsay.
    How’s your health insurance? I’d rather have the French or Canadian system to ours.
    You should travel more.

    JAR (b249e3)

  138. If the Canadian system is so great, why do so many Canadians come south to get simple proceedures such as an MRI?

    Another Drew (11dd7a)

  139. JAR, there is a lot of data on how long people have to wait for treatment in the Canadian system as well as data on treatments that Canada’s bureaucracy decides not to fund out of cost. If one bothers to look. But those who have blinded themselves to the faults of socialism out of a religious faith like yourself just pretend it does not exist.

    People who want to pretend that socialist health care systems don’t use long waiting lists and denied care to cut costs are pretty amusing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  140. You should move. We will help you pack.

    Not kidding.

    Icy Truth (784175)

  141. #143 was for JARbage

    Icy Truth (784175)

  142. Socialists run medical services the same way they run industries, into the ground.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  143. If there’s all this data, then give it to me.
    Last year there was this big story about a Canadian couple driving[!] a thousand miles into the US to give birth to quadruplets because there was no room in the local hospital north of the border. There was no room because there’s a small baby boom in the area so the local government flew them down and paid for everything.

    The rumors were everywhere and they were all false. They were in fact… lies

    Give me facts on Canada. Give me facts on France. My friends go home to see doctors.

    Read the post and comments here http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2007/08/andrew-samwic-1.html

    JAR (b249e3)

  144. It would be too easy to say that you should join them on their journey; so I won’t.
    But, you should.

    Another Drew (11dd7a)

  145. JAR – Move there. Here is a simple question. If your health and life were on the line, or that of your children, and you could choose to get healthcare in the US, Canada, France, or Cuba, you should be arrested for child neglect if you pick anywhere not named the US of A.

    JD (5f0e11)

  146. #146 – JAR JAR binky

    My friends go home to see doctors.

    — Go home and see the shrink . . . if you can get an appointment.

    Icy Truth (784175)

  147. “My friends go home to see doctors.”

    Is that because the mediacal care of Canadians traveling outside of the country is not covered by their great socialized medical plan JAR? There is big market is selling medical insurance to traveling Canadians, especially those who prefer not to be repatriated for their medical care.

    Fact not fiction.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  148. If your health and life were on the line, or that of your children, and you could choose to get healthcare in the US, Canada, France, or Cuba, you should be arrested for child neglect if you pick anywhere not named the US of A.

    The French health care system is excellent. I would have no hesitation about being treated in France. In fact, there is an issue about so many British retirees who have moved to France and, when they get sick, they do NOT want to go back to the NHS. As a result, the French are starting to limit access to the health care system for non-French citizens.

    I have quite a bit more on my blog about the French system which I think is a model for reform here.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  149. By the way, the Canadian system is nothing like the French system. The French system is more like ours with multiple plans funded by salary deductions. The difference in France is that there is a fee schedule for doctors (and free medical school) plus the French use evidence-based medical criteria for paying for care. In other words, if you want chiropractors or acupuncture, you pay for it yourself. About 25% of French hospitals are private, most care is fee-for-service and there are no HMOs.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  150. Socialists and their illusions are not soon parted, it requires years and years of waiting in line before the fog even begins to lift.

    You can’t tell them anything, evidence doesn’t persuade, history is denied, long standing traditions are rejected, unquestioned belief in the infalibility of Marxist dogma is the ends and the means of their self-delusion.

    When socialists can’t lie, distort, cheat, or deny reality any longer, they attack the messanger, trash the forum, and if all else fails they call in the goon squad.

    They, and they alone, have THE ONE true religion, and they will have no other gods before them.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  151. Mike K – Good, but not as good as ours. But, since you quibble on the margins with one does not change my point. Selecting Canada, CubaM etal. over ours is laughable.

    JD (5f0e11)

  152. Compulsory national insurance.
    Fine by me.

    Tax and invest, smartly. not stupidly

    National Health for the Auto Industry
    “Aug. 22 (Bloomberg) — General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., Chrysler LLC and U.S. auto-parts makers are seeking $50 billion in government-backed loans, double their initial request, to develop and build more fuel-efficient vehicles.

    The U.S. automakers and the suppliers want Congress to appropriate $3.75 billion needed to back $25 billion in U.S. loans approved in last year’s energy bill and add $25 billion in new loans over subsequent years, according to people familiar with the strategy. The industry is also seeking fewer restrictions on how the funding is used, the people said today.”

    JAR (b249e3)


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