<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: No Average Pickups Allowed</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 00:24:05 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: DRJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-374607</link>
		<dc:creator>DRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-374607</guid>
		<description>Peter,

It&#039;s coming from the Dallas area which is not classic red state conservative.  Think Harriet Miers and George W. Bush when he crossed the aisle to work with Teddy Kennedy.

Nevertheless, HOAs everywhere have crazy rules.  I&#039;ve never seen one like this story but my HOA comes close.  No vehicle is allowed to park in front of a home in my subdivision for more than 3 consecutive days, and that includes the homeowner who goes to work during the day.  The theory is:  You have a garage.  Use it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s coming from the Dallas area which is not classic red state conservative.  Think Harriet Miers and George W. Bush when he crossed the aisle to work with Teddy Kennedy.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, HOAs everywhere have crazy rules.  I&#8217;ve never seen one like this story but my HOA comes close.  No vehicle is allowed to park in front of a home in my subdivision for more than 3 consecutive days, and that includes the homeowner who goes to work during the day.  The theory is:  You have a garage.  Use it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Texan99</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-374603</link>
		<dc:creator>Texan99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-374603</guid>
		<description>You may think you can defend yourself against an HOA in Texas by characterizing its enforcement as &quot;state action&quot; on the ground that it uses a public court for enforcement, but you&#039;d be pretty disappointed.  You think people haven&#039;t tried that?  Some states (like Pennsylvania, I&#039;ve heard) have rules that impose constitutional limitations on associations that arrogate to themselves enough of the functions of government.  Texas does not.  In Texas the issue is treated as a private contract dispute.  The court&#039;s attitude is you should have been smarter than to sign the deed without understanding the CCRs better, and if you don&#039;t like the HOA, you should get your neighbors to vote to change it.  And indeed, short of moving out, that is your only realistic option.  If there is a professional management company and an experienced law firm running your HOA, however, you will be a singularly effective grassroots organizer if you succeed in reforming it.

As for the issue of which political party is to blame for this kind of thing, I&#039;m telling you, you can&#039;t tell.  I&#039;ve been involved in a huge number of these fights.  There are both Democrats and Republicans screwing up on this issue.  You think there aren&#039;t silly, interfering snobs in both parties?  I wish it weren&#039;t true.  The best lawyer in Houston when it comes to fighting HOAs successfully is an ACLU lawyer who is as Democrat as they come.  This is a libertarian issue that crosses party lines.

Someone on Ace of Spaces commented that HOAs are like some kind of unholy union between the Canadian Civil Rights Commission and the Mafia.  That&#039;s perfect.  That absolutely nails it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may think you can defend yourself against an HOA in Texas by characterizing its enforcement as &#8220;state action&#8221; on the ground that it uses a public court for enforcement, but you&#8217;d be pretty disappointed.  You think people haven&#8217;t tried that?  Some states (like Pennsylvania, I&#8217;ve heard) have rules that impose constitutional limitations on associations that arrogate to themselves enough of the functions of government.  Texas does not.  In Texas the issue is treated as a private contract dispute.  The court&#8217;s attitude is you should have been smarter than to sign the deed without understanding the CCRs better, and if you don&#8217;t like the HOA, you should get your neighbors to vote to change it.  And indeed, short of moving out, that is your only realistic option.  If there is a professional management company and an experienced law firm running your HOA, however, you will be a singularly effective grassroots organizer if you succeed in reforming it.</p>
<p>As for the issue of which political party is to blame for this kind of thing, I&#8217;m telling you, you can&#8217;t tell.  I&#8217;ve been involved in a huge number of these fights.  There are both Democrats and Republicans screwing up on this issue.  You think there aren&#8217;t silly, interfering snobs in both parties?  I wish it weren&#8217;t true.  The best lawyer in Houston when it comes to fighting HOAs successfully is an ACLU lawyer who is as Democrat as they come.  This is a libertarian issue that crosses party lines.</p>
<p>Someone on Ace of Spaces commented that HOAs are like some kind of unholy union between the Canadian Civil Rights Commission and the Mafia.  That&#8217;s perfect.  That absolutely nails it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stu707</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-374183</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu707</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-374183</guid>
		<description>NK #83

Good point. For Californians an excellent resource is &lt;i&gt;The Condominium Blue Book&lt;/i&gt;. It contains the portions of the Civil, Vehicle, and other codes that bear on HOAs as well as a synopsis of court decisions interpreting those laws. It is revised annually and is available on Amazon for about $20. The California Dept. of Real Estate has information about Common Interest Developments available on its web site.

Most HOAs are not petty tyrannies. Potential buyers should walk around the complex, talk to residents about HOA policies, and just be observant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NK #83</p>
<p>Good point. For Californians an excellent resource is <i>The Condominium Blue Book</i>. It contains the portions of the Civil, Vehicle, and other codes that bear on HOAs as well as a synopsis of court decisions interpreting those laws. It is revised annually and is available on Amazon for about $20. The California Dept. of Real Estate has information about Common Interest Developments available on its web site.</p>
<p>Most HOAs are not petty tyrannies. Potential buyers should walk around the complex, talk to residents about HOA policies, and just be observant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-374144</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-374144</guid>
		<description>BTW,

If the HOA uses the courts to enforce rules that infringe on First Amendment rights, such as flying a flag, it is considered state action.  Depending on your state&#039;s public policy on restraints on the use and enjoyment of land, it might be for other rules as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW,</p>
<p>If the HOA uses the courts to enforce rules that infringe on First Amendment rights, such as flying a flag, it is considered state action.  Depending on your state&#8217;s public policy on restraints on the use and enjoyment of land, it might be for other rules as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reactionary</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-374121</link>
		<dc:creator>Reactionary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 11:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-374121</guid>
		<description>People who choose to live in an area with a HOA should expect this kind of crap.  It&#039;s a pretty common feature of those miniature totalitarian states.  Places like that were invented to allow people with means to escape the consequences of our failed social engineering.  Riffraff are an issue because we have a system that pays them to multiply themselves - fix that, and within a couple decades you don&#039;t need home owners associations or gated communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who choose to live in an area with a HOA should expect this kind of crap.  It&#8217;s a pretty common feature of those miniature totalitarian states.  Places like that were invented to allow people with means to escape the consequences of our failed social engineering.  Riffraff are an issue because we have a system that pays them to multiply themselves &#8211; fix that, and within a couple decades you don&#8217;t need home owners associations or gated communities.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stu707</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-373951</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu707</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-373951</guid>
		<description>#78 Jayhub

&lt;blockquote&gt;In CA, if you want to buy a new home, or pretty much any home built in the last 20 years or so, you’re going to have a HOA whether you like it or not. Only older homes aren’t in HOA tracts (like mine thankfully, built in 1968). &lt;b&gt;It’s one of the unintended consequences of Proposition 13&lt;/b&gt;, CA’s famous initiative that in 1975 limited property taxes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
What explains the rise in HOAs in states that have no equivalent of Prop. 13?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#78 Jayhub</p>
<blockquote><p>In CA, if you want to buy a new home, or pretty much any home built in the last 20 years or so, you’re going to have a HOA whether you like it or not. Only older homes aren’t in HOA tracts (like mine thankfully, built in 1968). <b>It’s one of the unintended consequences of Proposition 13</b>, CA’s famous initiative that in 1975 limited property taxes.</p></blockquote>
<p>What explains the rise in HOAs in states that have no equivalent of Prop. 13?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SDN</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-373917</link>
		<dc:creator>SDN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-373917</guid>
		<description>HOA = &quot;No Sale&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HOA = &#8220;No Sale&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-373894</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-373894</guid>
		<description>#42 JD

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;No matter what the topic is, the likes of Phil and Peter can find a way to call someone racist.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You know JD, if this were taking place in Massachusetts or San Francisco, there is no doubt in my mind the political background of these insane petty stupid HOA people would be exploded into a &lt;i&gt;major&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i&gt;defining&lt;/i&gt; issue pointing to the hypocrisy of &quot;liberuls&quot; and owning a Ford F150 truck would be declared an American right and perhaps a &quot;Freedom of Speech&quot; issue.  And I would agree with you, &lt;i&gt;if&lt;/i&gt; that was the case.

But it&#039;s not, this behavior is coming from the heart of a Red State, Texas, nonetheless which boggles my mind, and I would bet dollars to donuts there&#039;s some underlying reason for this moronic rule.  And it would be interesting to get a demographic run down on the home owners who make up this HOA, because I don&#039;t think this is the whole picture.  

I wonder if there&#039;s some fear that pick up trucks (Ford F150 Pick up trucks) are going to lower the value of houses that are already tanking in the RE Market??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#42 JD</p>
<blockquote><p><i>No matter what the topic is, the likes of Phil and Peter can find a way to call someone racist.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>You know JD, if this were taking place in Massachusetts or San Francisco, there is no doubt in my mind the political background of these insane petty stupid HOA people would be exploded into a <i>major</i> <i>defining</i> issue pointing to the hypocrisy of &#8220;liberuls&#8221; and owning a Ford F150 truck would be declared an American right and perhaps a &#8220;Freedom of Speech&#8221; issue.  And I would agree with you, <i>if</i> that was the case.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not, this behavior is coming from the heart of a Red State, Texas, nonetheless which boggles my mind, and I would bet dollars to donuts there&#8217;s some underlying reason for this moronic rule.  And it would be interesting to get a demographic run down on the home owners who make up this HOA, because I don&#8217;t think this is the whole picture.  </p>
<p>I wonder if there&#8217;s some fear that pick up trucks (Ford F150 Pick up trucks) are going to lower the value of houses that are already tanking in the RE Market??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JayHub</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-373860</link>
		<dc:creator>JayHub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-373860</guid>
		<description>In CA, if you want to buy a new home, or pretty much any home built in the last 20 years or so, you&#039;re going to have a HOA whether you like it or not. Only older homes aren&#039;t in HOA tracts (like mine thankfully, built in 1968). It&#039;s one of the unintended consequences of Proposition 13, CA&#039;s famous initiative that in 1975 limited property taxes. It&#039;s just another layer of government for most people here, but there are horror stories.

When you buy a home here the Seller is required by law to give you the financial statements of the HOA, minutes of its meetings and all the rules and regs before closing. Whether buyers read them is another story.

The situation described would not raise any eyebrows in the more expensive gated communities here. The other side of snobbery is &quot;prestige&quot; and prestige is a BIG emotional driver for a lot of people. A &quot;working man&#039;s&quot; truck in the driveway doesn&#039;t fit the image the majority of the people in these communities want. This kind of thing really has little to do with property values, it&#039;s the feeling of social superiority that&#039;s important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In CA, if you want to buy a new home, or pretty much any home built in the last 20 years or so, you&#8217;re going to have a HOA whether you like it or not. Only older homes aren&#8217;t in HOA tracts (like mine thankfully, built in 1968). It&#8217;s one of the unintended consequences of Proposition 13, CA&#8217;s famous initiative that in 1975 limited property taxes. It&#8217;s just another layer of government for most people here, but there are horror stories.</p>
<p>When you buy a home here the Seller is required by law to give you the financial statements of the HOA, minutes of its meetings and all the rules and regs before closing. Whether buyers read them is another story.</p>
<p>The situation described would not raise any eyebrows in the more expensive gated communities here. The other side of snobbery is &#8220;prestige&#8221; and prestige is a BIG emotional driver for a lot of people. A &#8220;working man&#8217;s&#8221; truck in the driveway doesn&#8217;t fit the image the majority of the people in these communities want. This kind of thing really has little to do with property values, it&#8217;s the feeling of social superiority that&#8217;s important.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DRJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/17/no-average-pickups-allowed/comment-page-2/#comment-373856</link>
		<dc:creator>DRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=11161#comment-373856</guid>
		<description>JD,

We used to have a woman homeowner that livened up our HOA.  She was equal parts trouble and entertainment, but I admit I was glad when she moved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JD,</p>
<p>We used to have a woman homeowner that livened up our HOA.  She was equal parts trouble and entertainment, but I admit I was glad when she moved.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
