Security at the Democratic Convention
[Guest post by DRJ]
I don’t care what Denver does to enforce order at the Democratic National Convention (or, for that matter, what Minneapolis-St. Paul does at the Republican Convention), but I wonder why more Democratic leaders aren’t complaining about Denver’s secret jails with the same fervor reserved for Guantanamo:
“The newly created lockup is on the northeast side of Denver. Protesters have already given this place a name: “Gitmo on the Platte.”
Inside are dozens are metal cages. They are made out of chain link fence material and topped by rolls of barbed wire.
“This is a secured environment,” Capt. Frank Gale of the Denver Sheriff’s Department told CBS4. “We’re concerned about how that’s going to be utilized by people who will be potentially disruptive.”
In past conventions, mass arrests have taken place.
With Denver’s jails already overflowing, new space had to be created and officers trained.
Each of the fenced areas is about 5 yards by 5 yards and there is a lock on the door. A sign on the wall reads “Warning! Electric stun devices used in this facility.”
If he wants to be consistent, I think Barack Obama should condemn actions like this by the City of Denver. After all, he doesn’t want to risk losing the endorsement of those 80 volunteer lawyers representing Gitmo detainees.
— DRJ
After a few of them have been incarcerated five or so years with no legal representation, no hearings, no knowledge conerning any evidence against them, no witnesses or evidence to confront, etc., especially those who got stuck there because somebody had a personal grudge or got a monetary bounty for pointing the finger at them, gimme a call. I’ll get Karl to drop a dime on Obama and his people. They’re totally on the hook for whatever happens in Denver.
David Addington (d11f9a) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:28 pmPolitics 101: Do as we say, not as we do.
Icy Truth (784175) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:29 pm“If he wants to be consistent”
Why should he start now? He’s run a very successful campaign being inconsistent. In fact, its almost becoming his personal trademark.
Dana (254946) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:32 pmIs anyone else watching Obama at Saddleback? He just threw Clarence Thomas under the bus (or he Uncle Tom’d him — or however you want to say it). This after doing a valiant tap-dance around the abortion issue.
Icy Truth (784175) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:37 pmGuess what, Democratic mayor.
BTW, David, your description does not correctly describe Guantanamo.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:37 pmDavid Addington,
It’s good to know you don’t have a problem with Gitmo-type incarcerations and treatment unless they go on for years. I agree, just not on American citizens in an American city.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:42 pmAddington, come off it. You know that’s a non-starter. The Secret Service will be in Denver arresting anyone with anti-Obama bumper stickers. It’s how they work. Remember when they grabbed people who came to a Bush rally there in 2005 and threw them out because they had anti-war bumper stickers on their cars. Verbotten. Everyone knew they wouldn’t say “Heil.” So away they went. How dare someone say we might be trading blood for oil. It’s not a proper thought. They should be in Gitmo with those other enemies.
Alfred E. Neuman (d11f9a) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:43 pmElectric stun? Harrumph. They should be waterboarded. Anyone protesting against Obama surely believes it’s not torture anyway.
“It’s good to know you don’t have a problem with Gitmo-type incarcerations and treatment unless they go on for years. I agree, just not on American citizens in an American city.”
Unless it’s San Francisco, where they do it to each other for sexual gratification. Do you think they fly the Denver detainees to San Fran to hide what’s going on David?
Why the hell didn’t Cheney think of this!
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:52 pmDavid Addington/Alfred E. Neuman/Alan Greenspan/Larry Reilly/etc.,
Patterico has a rule that commenters must comment using a consistent identity. Please do so in the future or you will be banned.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/16/2008 @ 5:55 pmDRJ, that’s the same twit pretending to ridicule himself with that drivel?
Great. What a clown.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/16/2008 @ 6:18 pmDemocrats: Tiger Cages R Us!
Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 8/16/2008 @ 6:21 pm“…especially those who got stuck there because somebody had a personal grudge or got a monetary bounty for pointing the finger at them, gimme a call.”
Please provide sources for this claim, Mr. Whateverthehellyouareatthemoment. If not, then admit you’re just another asshat trolling for dollars here.
Dmac (874677) — 8/16/2008 @ 6:44 pmIs that BigIslandDave again?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/16/2008 @ 7:16 pmGitmo on the Platte…
Another Drew (c3bf7a) — 8/16/2008 @ 7:20 pmOnly Democrats could not see the irony, or even think it would be acceptable.
Fascists!
Sorry, Dmac, I can’t offer you the kind of “proof” you need, because proof for you could only be talking points from Rumsfeld/Cheney (Bush doesn’t count, he’s just the trust-fund-cowboy-cum-willing-marionette for Cheney.) I doubt you’re curious enough to be bothered by any of it. Hey, just keep cutting taxes and buying bombs. (Fiscal responsibility means cutting back on the expenses for armor…..and, uh, back home after-care for the crippled and maimed.)
Larry Reilly (d11f9a) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:05 pmEconomists and political scientists speak of choosing between guns OR butter in times of war or such buildup. Bush et al. showed they can have guns AND whipped cream. Now that’s magic, huh? Not for our grandkids. But hey, let’s talk about Obama raising taxes.
So you wouldn’t be interested in the thoughts and actions of Army Col. (that would be full-bird) Peter E. Brownback III as a military judge in Gitmo. Look him up. Look up others, military prosecutors, who have walked away in disgust.
And you would never, ever, ever want to peer behind the curtain that hides the slow and painful death from liver disease of Abdul Hamid al-Ghizzawi in Gitmo. I mean, after all, his feakin’ name is a crime post-9/11.
Never mind that some homeboys dropped his name to the Americans knowing they could pick up some coins for the effort, and away he went to the hoosgow.
Never mind that our military tribunal found there was nothing there in the case and no reason to hold him, so, for the integrity of all things huge, grand and important in government-as-political-campaigning, our higher ups in Washington convened another super-super-super secret tribunal, in D.C. of course, with nothing new other than newness itself and…….boom……that swarthy, worthless dude is still rotting away down there. Gonna die soon anyway.
I know, Dmac, just exactly whateverthehellyouareatthisverymoment has nothing to do with thinking and reasoning. (See above about talking points.) You happen to know, quite comfortably, that everything your government does, at least certain administrations, is right and good. And that makes you not just headless, but a hatless ass.
Doubt it, but maybe someday you’ll figure out that my country right or wrong doesn’t mean my government right or wrong.
Now, let the echoes in here quiet any cognitive dissonance that real thinking about these things might cause.
Protesters have already given this place a name: “Gitmo on the Platte.”
You don’t think some of these protesters calling it “Gitmo” could be Republicans wanting to equalize things with the atrocities our current administration has done do you?
Non Story here, this type of thing is done at every convention especially with overcrowded jails.
Get back to us when the Denver Police start water boarding the protesters.
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:06 pmLarry Reilly, that juvenile little rant of yours just showed how little relation your opinions have to facts. You are still repeating myths debunked half a decade ago.
Oiram, you are pretty ignorant about the many abuses that Denver PD really has been caught doing, I see.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:17 pmShow us here what the Denver PD has done so far. Please SPQR, before you go calling me ignorant.
And also I would love to see you tie in what they have done with The democrats. I mean this is what this all about right?
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:29 pmYes, Oiram, you are ignorant. Try looking up the Denver PD shooting of Frank Lobato for an example. And the tie-in is that Denver PD has been a poorly run police department for many decades, under Democratic mayors and city councils.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:34 pmWow, you give me an example of a man that was shot in 2004 and make it look like it just happened last week because of the Democratic convention next week.
And then you blame the Democratic mayors and city council on one cop who was stupid enough to think a bedridden man had a gun instead of a can of coke.
I may be ignorant, but I’m smart enough to know when a sneaky s.o.b. is trying to pull the wool over dumber people than me.
Nice Try SPQR
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:40 pmIndeed you are.
When someone says “… for an example.” it does not mean they intend to recap the entire sordid history of a political machine and its causal relationship to the poor quality and corruption of the police department cultivated under its stead.
EW1(SG) (84e813) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:48 pm“You don’t think some of these protesters calling it “Gitmo” could be Republicans wanting to equalize things with the atrocities our current administration has done do you?”
Oiram – What atrocities? Are the rtotesters you’re talking about part of “Recreate 68”? Are they the ones planning on throwing urine and feces that the city has already been negotiating with?
Gitmo on the Platte – Catchy. I like it. I also like Moronic Convergence.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:51 pm“Wow, you give me an example of a man that was shot in 2004 and make it look like it just happened last week because of the Democratic convention next week.”
Oiram – Democrats must have a strange selective sense of time then because they keep newly discovering John McCain’s infidelities as if they had never been discussed before and had only happened yesterday.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:55 pmOiram, clumsy strawman you tried to build there. Not really a nice try. I didn’t try to make anything look like it happened last week.
Now look up Emily Rice and the falsified jail records and altered video from the Denver Sheriffs department.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/16/2008 @ 8:56 pm“I wonder why more Democratic leaders aren’t complaining about Denver’s secret jails with the same fervor reserved for Guantanamo”
DRJ – The answer is simple. They know that the rank and file democratic base are absolutely bugfuck, rugchewing, certifiably insane and don’t want to risk getting anywhere close to them. That’s why they have those caged protest zones set up outside the convention.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/16/2008 @ 9:07 pmThis is truly rich. Republicans here at Patterico are trying to blame unscrupulous police officials in Denver on Democrats. And mind you they are police officials from the past not even the present.
O.k. not everyone, just SPQR. He likes to call me ignorant for pointing out to people here that a horrible incident that happened to Frank Lobato in 2004 and Emily Rice in 2006 somehow is related to the Democratic convention next week.
Protests happen on both sides. If the protesters play nice maybe there wont be over 1800 arrests like there was at the Republican convention 2004 in New York. 90% of the charges were dropped, not by the Republicans but by New York.
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 10:53 pmGetting back to the original thread. DRJ feels the need to ask: “why more Democratic leaders aren’t complaining about Denver’s secret jails with the same fervor reserved for Guantanamo:”
The ACLU is on this already…….. I’m pretty sure you guys label the ACLU as bleeding heart liberal Democrats. Secret Jails in Denver are apparently not so secret.
Yup, I’m calling a spade a spade here, certain Republicans feel the need to justify Guantanamo bay by pointing out what is going on in Denver next week, which has been going on since the beginning of party conventions.
Sad, too sad. No on second thought I’m happy. Grasping at straws eventually leads to a fall.
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 10:57 pmThat’s right. You arrest them for disorderly conduct in order to remove them from the scene and maintain order; then you release their dumb-asses so that they aren’t tarnished with a criminal record . . . for being a dumbass.
When — not “if”, but when members of Code Pink are arrested at the Dem convention I’m sure you will appreciate the fact that they will not end up with criminal records as a consequence of their stupidity.
Icy Truth (784175) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:02 pmOiram,
You missed the point of the post. The Bush Administration believed it was necessary to detain possible terrorists at Gitmo to protect Americans and America in the war on terror. Denver officials believe it will be necessary to detain threatening protesters in a warehouse jail to protect people attending the Democratic Convention.
Both groups have shown themselves willing to push the envelope to protect something they think is important. They just have different ideas of what’s important.
DRJ (a5243f) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:12 pmIn that case, pointless post then DRJ. You’re comparing Apples to knives here.
These protesters will be released soon after the convention.
Do you see my point DRJ?
Your trying to justify lack of due process at Guantanamo bay and years of incarceration with possibly days is not hours of prison time in Denver.
It’s a long stretch…………….
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:19 pmI’m getting tired,
What I meant was:
Your trying to justify lack of due process at Guantanamo bay and years of incarceration with possible days if not hours of prison time in Denver.
(Getting sleepy) Sorry.
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:20 pm“certain Republicans feel the need to justify Guantanamo bay by pointing out what is going on in Denver next week”
Oiram – This doesn’t make any freaking sense. Are you suggesting we began setting up detention camps in Guantanamo Bay by foretelling what would home to pass in Denver six years later? Are you nuts? Have you benn drinking or are you high?
How about trying again in english or more clearly?
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:22 pmOiram – Who were the protesters at the 2004 Democratic convention?
Who were the protesters at the 2004 Republican convention?
If you check I bet you’ll find significant overlap.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:24 pmNo, I just don’t see the need to make Democrats look like hypocrites here. That is the point of this post is it not?
I’m not high…….. I just need to call a spade a spade.
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:25 pmThank you daley, I know there is an overlap, tell that to DRJ.
DRJ wrote: “but I wonder why more Democratic leaders aren’t complaining about Denver’s secret jails with the same fervor reserved for Guantanamo:”
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:27 pmOiram sure talks a lot about “spades”.
Where’s JD when you need him?
Icy Truth (784175) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:29 pmSorry, gots to calls them likes I sees them.
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/16/2008 @ 11:32 pmThere is no “lack of due process” at Guantanamo Bay. Under the “Laws of Warfare” (a useful fiction in referring to a myriad of treaties and conventions covering the treatment of combatants in hostilities) the prisoners at Guantanamo have a well defined status in international law, and the treatment accorded them by the US is far beyond anything called for by such treaties or conventions.
And, there is no
because they are doing that quite well all by themselves.
EW1(SG) (84e813) — 8/17/2008 @ 4:45 amLet’s just call what the Dem’s are doing in Denver, Rendition. Let’s get John Yoo to write a legal opinion about what their doing in the Valley of Elah. Actually, this is what so disgusts me about the Lefties, they lie, lie, lie and so discredit what they claim they stand for. Free speech = Fairness Doctrine. Protest = protester cages. Diversity = race discrimination. Antiwar = anti-Americanism (do they ever protest other wars?)
Jabba the Tutt (4fe723) — 8/17/2008 @ 6:51 amThank you, EW1(SG), for attempting to get through Oiram’s thick skull with correct info re GTMO.
Another Drew (688ffe) — 8/17/2008 @ 8:39 amThe “due process” that the internees there have received is much more than they would have received historically, or that they deserve.
This problem should have been handled under Rule 7.62!
Its funny how people who claim to want to “call a spade a spade” have no idea how to recognize ordinary garden tools.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/17/2008 @ 9:28 am#38 says “Laws of Warfare” justifies lack of due process at Guantanamo.
Who are we at war with Al Queda? We know that is not a country.
There is also a war on drugs, would that make it o.k. to detain our criminals in the u.s. without due process?
Sad
Oiram (6ff3d9) — 8/17/2008 @ 11:14 amEnemy combatants. Anyone that attacks US military personnel. Anyone that attacks US interests in a military fashion.
Icy Truth (612a80) — 8/17/2008 @ 11:28 amAnd, under the recognized Rules of Warfare, conducting military operations sans a flag, recognizable uniforms, and conduct outside the parameters of civilized warfare (beheadings, come to mind), strip the combattants who fall in the above catagories of all protections due lawful-combattants.
Another Drew (688ffe) — 8/17/2008 @ 12:46 pmThe reward for such conduct has historically been Summary Execution!
Please tell me how internment at Club Gitmo, instead of Summary Execution, is a deprivation of due process?
42.
Hundreds of millions of lives were savagely and brutally taken in the last century in the name of Utopian ideologies~supposedly supranational movements touting their benefit to all mankind; and the murderous ideology that drives Al Qaeda is no less dangerous, even if much more forward in its proclamations of what awaits the losers in this conflict.
In case you hadn’t noticed, Al Qaeda and their ideological companions are playing for all the marbles. The whole, entire world, preferably by bloody conquest. And the prospects are pretty grim for those of us who can’t convert to Islam in case they win.
EW1(SG) (84e813) — 8/17/2008 @ 2:05 pmWho are we at war with Al Queda? We know that is not a country.
This is just not a serious comment. It shows a lack of education in history to think first of all that warfare requires a nation state, and secondly to be ignorant of just how often this nation, much less other Western nations, have conducted military operations against enemies that were not nominally nation states like piracy and slavery.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/17/2008 @ 11:18 pm