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	<title>Comments on: McCain and Obama:  Three Debates</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367316</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367316</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Who writes your talking point for you?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

HuffPo
Media Matters
Soros
Kos
CAP
Code Pink
et al.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Who writes your talking point for you?</p></blockquote>
<p>HuffPo<br />
Media Matters<br />
Soros<br />
Kos<br />
CAP<br />
Code Pink<br />
et al.</p>
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		<title>By: daleyrocks</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367311</link>
		<dc:creator>daleyrocks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367311</guid>
		<description>&quot;McCain is a veteran, but he doesn’t act like one.&quot;

Peter - You repeatedly demonstrated you ignorance of military matters here.  How the hell would you know what a veteran acts like?

Wouldn&#039;t a more accurate measure be to look at how other veterans in Congress voted on the same bills tather than to look at your biased opinion.  In back of your jaundiced screed, were there other versions of bills that McCain was supporting instead of the ones he voted against, cupcake?

Who writes your talking point for you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;McCain is a veteran, but he doesn’t act like one.&#8221;</p>
<p>Peter &#8211; You repeatedly demonstrated you ignorance of military matters here.  How the hell would you know what a veteran acts like?</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t a more accurate measure be to look at how other veterans in Congress voted on the same bills tather than to look at your biased opinion.  In back of your jaundiced screed, were there other versions of bills that McCain was supporting instead of the ones he voted against, cupcake?</p>
<p>Who writes your talking point for you?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: daleyrocks</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367307</link>
		<dc:creator>daleyrocks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367307</guid>
		<description>&quot;You’re deeply deeply mistaken and history will prove you as such.&quot;

Peter - Since you are so big on what people think, are you in that huge majority of people who are now in the 24% of Americans who did not approve of the Iraq war in April 2003?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You’re deeply deeply mistaken and history will prove you as such.&#8221;</p>
<p>Peter &#8211; Since you are so big on what people think, are you in that huge majority of people who are now in the 24% of Americans who did not approve of the Iraq war in April 2003?</p>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367306</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 12:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367306</guid>
		<description>Peter - Simply asserting something as true does not make it so.  When called on it, simply repeating it does not add to its validity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; Simply asserting something as true does not make it so.  When called on it, simply repeating it does not add to its validity.</p>
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		<title>By: Icy Truth</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367298</link>
		<dc:creator>Icy Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367298</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;as a senator and former soldier&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

-- So now McCain was in the &lt;b&gt;Army&lt;/b&gt;? Well, your confusion shouldn&#039;t be too surprising given that embarrassing situation from last year:

Ship&#039;s Captain: I&#039;m sorry, but I&#039;m afraid I&#039;m going to have to bar you from the aft section of the ship for the rest of the cruise. 
Lois: Oh, we are so sorry. Peter, what the hell did you think you were doing? 
&lt;b&gt;Peter&lt;/b&gt;: Lois, it is called the &quot;poop deck.&quot; That is why I pooped there. 
Ship&#039;s Captain: You&#039;re disgusting! 
&lt;b&gt;Peter&lt;/b&gt;: And you&#039;re misleading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;as a senator and former soldier&#8221;</i></p>
<p>&#8211; So now McCain was in the <b>Army</b>? Well, your confusion shouldn&#8217;t be too surprising given that embarrassing situation from last year:</p>
<p>Ship&#8217;s Captain: I&#8217;m sorry, but I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m going to have to bar you from the aft section of the ship for the rest of the cruise.<br />
Lois: Oh, we are so sorry. Peter, what the hell did you think you were doing?<br />
<b>Peter</b>: Lois, it is called the &#8220;poop deck.&#8221; That is why I pooped there.<br />
Ship&#8217;s Captain: You&#8217;re disgusting!<br />
<b>Peter</b>: And you&#8217;re misleading.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367297</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 07:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367297</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;No one in the Bush Administration lied about a single aspect of any presented evidence, there was no manipulation of the public, and that “war that should’ve never happened in the first place” was not one that we started.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You&#039;re deeply deeply mistaken and history will prove you as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>No one in the Bush Administration lied about a single aspect of any presented evidence, there was no manipulation of the public, and that “war that should’ve never happened in the first place” was not one that we started.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;re deeply deeply mistaken and history will prove you as such.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367295</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367295</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ruralvotes.com/thebackforty/?p=219&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Source here.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.ruralvotes.com/thebackforty/?p=219" title="" rel="nofollow">Source here.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367294</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367294</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;My evidence is irrefutable. Just see for yourself.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wow.  Can you be anymore impenetrable and stubborn?  here you go: 

&lt;i&gt;What resources for veterans does McCain claim to support that Senator Obama has not?  It’s difficult to believe any senator would not want our current military who serve in combat to have individual body armor, helicopters and ammunition. What legislative bill is McCain referring to when he states that Senator Obama voted against providing these items?  The record shows in 2005 Senator Obama voted in favor of an amendment to provide additional funding for veterans and for an amendment to ensure continued funding for veterans’ health care.

McCain voted against these two funding bills.

Precisely what is it Senator Obama opposed that proposed “funding for veterans’ medical facilities and rehabilitation programs”?  Does McCain refer to S 2020 proposed in 2005? Senator Obama was part of the majority voting in favor of S 2020 which provided for an additional $500,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2006 through 2010, to be used for readjustment counseling, related mental health services, and treatment and rehabilitative services for veterans with mental illness, post-traumatic stress disorder, or substance use disorder.

McCain voted against it.

What about HR 4297 Military Funding and Tax Cuts Amendment of 2006 that set aside $21.9 billion for veterans?  It included $14 billion for disability compensation and $6.9 billion for medical services for veterans’ health care.  HR 4297 would reduce the deficit by making tax rates fairer for all Americans.  Senator Obama supported this amendment.

McCain voted against it.

S Con Res 23/Fiscal 2004 Budget Resolution/Military Health Care, was an amendment to increase spending on the TRICARE program (regionally managed health care for active duty, activated guard and reserves, retired members of the uniformed services, their families and survivors) by $20.3 billion over ten years.  This would give members of the National Guard and reserves and their families greater access to the health care program, and be offset by a reduction in tax cuts.  Barack Obama had not yet been elected, but John McCain was.

McCain voted against the funding.

Did McCain mean the 2008 Senate amendment to HR 2642?  Senate Amendment 4803 to HR 2642 provided, among other things, education funding for eligible members of the Armed Forces.  Senator Obama voted in favor of the amendment.

McCain was absent and did not vote.

Speaking of missing in action, McCain’s radio ad states, “There are few votes as important as funding our men and women in uniform.”  How does what he says pair up with what he does?    Or, in this case, did not do?  As he did not do with Senate Amendment 4803, the GI Bill that is crucially important to veterans, as it gives the same kinds of benefits that WWII/Korea vets received.  McCain was known to be opposed to it, so no wonder he just went AWOL and saved himself from adding another no vote to his record.  Senator Obama, on the other hand, was present and voted in favor of the GI Bill.

More challenges for veterans are yet to come, especially under the next president.  An April 2007 article in Congressional Quarterly quoted projections by Linda Bilmes, an expert in veterans’ policy at Harvard University, estimating that the cost for treating Iraq and Afghanistan veterans seeking medical care from the Department of Veterans Affairs will triple to almost $3 billion in 2010, to exceed more than twice that amount during the following four years.  Clearly, veterans are in serious need of a president who will prioritize the costs of their ongoing health care needs, before tax cuts for the wealthy. HR 4297 and S Con Res 23/Fiscal 2004 Budget Resolution/Military Health Care prioritized health care over tax cuts for the wealthy.

McCain voted against both.

McCain’s voting against or going missing on legislation for funding for veterans’ healthcare are shots in the back aimed at our veterans.  And McCain’s alliance with George W. Bush is even more wounding.  McCain refused to defend veterans under Bush’s “cost-cutting” attack of FY 2005.  The national income average for a single veteran in 2005 was $25,842.  Bush declared that any veteran earning more than an average wage would be denied access to VA hospitals, clinics and medications.  With this revised classification over 260,000 veterans were turned away from health care benefits in FY 2005 alone, including nearly 6,000 veterans in McCain’s home state of Arizona.  McCain’s past and continuing silence in the face of such aggressive acts against veterans gives little hope of their surviving more political ambushes.

McCain is a veteran, but he doesn’t act like one.

Veterans are completely deserving of all the care and funding we can legislate to guarantee their well-being and happiness.  They deserve a change in Washington politics that would guarantee that their issues become a priority.  Talk is cheap.  Especially to a politician.  Yet it comes at a high price for veterans.  Comparing the voting record of McCain to Obama, I can only say this:  if McCain does not support the funding for a decent quality of life for veterans now as a senator and former soldier, what could he possibly offer veterans as Commander-in-Chief?&lt;/i&gt;

This is the truth.  Go to http://www.govtrack.us/ and prove otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>My evidence is irrefutable. Just see for yourself.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Wow.  Can you be anymore impenetrable and stubborn?  here you go: </p>
<p><i>What resources for veterans does McCain claim to support that Senator Obama has not?  It’s difficult to believe any senator would not want our current military who serve in combat to have individual body armor, helicopters and ammunition. What legislative bill is McCain referring to when he states that Senator Obama voted against providing these items?  The record shows in 2005 Senator Obama voted in favor of an amendment to provide additional funding for veterans and for an amendment to ensure continued funding for veterans’ health care.</p>
<p>McCain voted against these two funding bills.</p>
<p>Precisely what is it Senator Obama opposed that proposed “funding for veterans’ medical facilities and rehabilitation programs”?  Does McCain refer to S 2020 proposed in 2005? Senator Obama was part of the majority voting in favor of S 2020 which provided for an additional $500,000,000 for each of fiscal years 2006 through 2010, to be used for readjustment counseling, related mental health services, and treatment and rehabilitative services for veterans with mental illness, post-traumatic stress disorder, or substance use disorder.</p>
<p>McCain voted against it.</p>
<p>What about HR 4297 Military Funding and Tax Cuts Amendment of 2006 that set aside $21.9 billion for veterans?  It included $14 billion for disability compensation and $6.9 billion for medical services for veterans’ health care.  HR 4297 would reduce the deficit by making tax rates fairer for all Americans.  Senator Obama supported this amendment.</p>
<p>McCain voted against it.</p>
<p>S Con Res 23/Fiscal 2004 Budget Resolution/Military Health Care, was an amendment to increase spending on the TRICARE program (regionally managed health care for active duty, activated guard and reserves, retired members of the uniformed services, their families and survivors) by $20.3 billion over ten years.  This would give members of the National Guard and reserves and their families greater access to the health care program, and be offset by a reduction in tax cuts.  Barack Obama had not yet been elected, but John McCain was.</p>
<p>McCain voted against the funding.</p>
<p>Did McCain mean the 2008 Senate amendment to HR 2642?  Senate Amendment 4803 to HR 2642 provided, among other things, education funding for eligible members of the Armed Forces.  Senator Obama voted in favor of the amendment.</p>
<p>McCain was absent and did not vote.</p>
<p>Speaking of missing in action, McCain’s radio ad states, “There are few votes as important as funding our men and women in uniform.”  How does what he says pair up with what he does?    Or, in this case, did not do?  As he did not do with Senate Amendment 4803, the GI Bill that is crucially important to veterans, as it gives the same kinds of benefits that WWII/Korea vets received.  McCain was known to be opposed to it, so no wonder he just went AWOL and saved himself from adding another no vote to his record.  Senator Obama, on the other hand, was present and voted in favor of the GI Bill.</p>
<p>More challenges for veterans are yet to come, especially under the next president.  An April 2007 article in Congressional Quarterly quoted projections by Linda Bilmes, an expert in veterans’ policy at Harvard University, estimating that the cost for treating Iraq and Afghanistan veterans seeking medical care from the Department of Veterans Affairs will triple to almost $3 billion in 2010, to exceed more than twice that amount during the following four years.  Clearly, veterans are in serious need of a president who will prioritize the costs of their ongoing health care needs, before tax cuts for the wealthy. HR 4297 and S Con Res 23/Fiscal 2004 Budget Resolution/Military Health Care prioritized health care over tax cuts for the wealthy.</p>
<p>McCain voted against both.</p>
<p>McCain’s voting against or going missing on legislation for funding for veterans’ healthcare are shots in the back aimed at our veterans.  And McCain’s alliance with George W. Bush is even more wounding.  McCain refused to defend veterans under Bush’s “cost-cutting” attack of FY 2005.  The national income average for a single veteran in 2005 was $25,842.  Bush declared that any veteran earning more than an average wage would be denied access to VA hospitals, clinics and medications.  With this revised classification over 260,000 veterans were turned away from health care benefits in FY 2005 alone, including nearly 6,000 veterans in McCain’s home state of Arizona.  McCain’s past and continuing silence in the face of such aggressive acts against veterans gives little hope of their surviving more political ambushes.</p>
<p>McCain is a veteran, but he doesn’t act like one.</p>
<p>Veterans are completely deserving of all the care and funding we can legislate to guarantee their well-being and happiness.  They deserve a change in Washington politics that would guarantee that their issues become a priority.  Talk is cheap.  Especially to a politician.  Yet it comes at a high price for veterans.  Comparing the voting record of McCain to Obama, I can only say this:  if McCain does not support the funding for a decent quality of life for veterans now as a senator and former soldier, what could he possibly offer veterans as Commander-in-Chief?</i></p>
<p>This is the truth.  Go to <a href="http://www.govtrack.us/" rel="nofollow">http://www.govtrack.us/</a> and prove otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: daleyrocks</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367266</link>
		<dc:creator>daleyrocks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367266</guid>
		<description>Peter - That IAVA group you are touting above.  I know it sounds incredible, but they don&#039;t give one sindle &quot;A&quot; rating to a republican.  They save them all for democrats.  It&#039;s gotta be a coincidence or quirk of their methodology or something.  Curious that.

That DAV organization too, can you tell me how many votes and what they were to come up with the 20% and 80% rankings for McCain and Obama?  I couldn&#039;t figure it out from your link.  What other liberal senators are ranked highly and what other senators are ranked poorly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; That IAVA group you are touting above.  I know it sounds incredible, but they don&#8217;t give one sindle &#8220;A&#8221; rating to a republican.  They save them all for democrats.  It&#8217;s gotta be a coincidence or quirk of their methodology or something.  Curious that.</p>
<p>That DAV organization too, can you tell me how many votes and what they were to come up with the 20% and 80% rankings for McCain and Obama?  I couldn&#8217;t figure it out from your link.  What other liberal senators are ranked highly and what other senators are ranked poorly?</p>
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		<title>By: SPQR</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/08/02/mccain-and-obama-three-debates/comment-page-2/#comment-367223</link>
		<dc:creator>SPQR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=10136#comment-367223</guid>
		<description>Peter, your endorsement of Wesley Clark as authority is amusing.  You have a long history of not having any clue to the credibility problems of your sources.  Not least after Clark showed his own willingness to say anything to attack McCain a month ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, your endorsement of Wesley Clark as authority is amusing.  You have a long history of not having any clue to the credibility problems of your sources.  Not least after Clark showed his own willingness to say anything to attack McCain a month ago.</p>
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