Patterico's Pontifications

7/25/2008

American Flags and Other Symbols

Filed under: 2008 Election,Politics — DRJ @ 12:49 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

John Feehery blogs at The Hill and his 1:13 PM entry yesterday was a list of four things that are so surprising you just can’t make them up:

>> Rep. Charlie Rangel’s rent-controlled apartments save him so much money that “he was forced to complain about himself to the [House] ethics committee.”

>> The committee hosting the Democratic National Convention in Denver was caught “using the city’s gas pumps to fill up on fuel, avoiding state and federal highway taxes.” The 4-month-old practice was ended after it was brought to light at a Denver City Council meeting.

>> Proving that “politics must come first,” Barack Obama cancelled his trip to Rammstein and Landstuhl U.S. military bases in southwest Germany and missed an opportunity to honor and thank many military personnel who have been wounded in war.

>> Finally, the pièce de résistance is this Obama story [Note: Photos at the links — DRJ]:

“The Chicago Tribune’s John McCormick reported that when Obama replaced his Boeing 737 campaign plane with a Boeing 757, he noted the new aircraft had “a giant flag painted on its tail.”

But Chicago Sun-Times reporter Lynn Sweet now notes that Obama’s 757 has been repainted “with the Obama sunrise logo on the tail.”

Barack Obama’s plane illustrates that he thinks symbols are important and I agree. I’m glad he didn’t use his Presidential seal but he could have kept the American flag and added the signature Obama swoosh.

I wonder: Is it Obama or his supporters who believe the American flag sends the wrong message?

— DRJ

57 Responses to “American Flags and Other Symbols”

  1. Do McCain’s planes have flags on them?

    Levi (74ca1f)

  2. The American Flag, for Democrats, sends the wrong message when it is on the uniforms of soldiers liberating oppressed peoples from totalitarian tyrants – they believe that it should be replaced by the UN patch.
    But, the UN has singularly demonstrated its’ incompetence at liberating anyone from tyranny, or preventing their subjugation to oppression and death.
    Symbolism is always more important than competence to those on the Left.

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  3. #1…
    His bus did!

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  4. I wonder: Is it Obama or his supporters who believe the American flag sends the wrong message?

    Does this have to be an either/or question?

    JD (75f5c3)

  5. #1…
    His bus did!

    You’re a little too eager there, pal.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  6. Just answering (partly) the question, pal!

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  7. Just answering (partly) the question, pal!

    How do you figure?

    Levi (74ca1f)

  8. Obama’s planes MUST have a US flag visible on it somewhere (wings or fin stabilizer) by international flight regulations, since the aircraft is registered in the United States. (The actual heartfelt allegiances of those within the plane have nothing to do with the registration papers of the plane itself.)

    And he also doesn’t have any predesignated callsign like the POTUS or VPOTUS. (Neither does McCain, so kindly leggo of that red herring.)

    Obama just replaced the one that should be visible to those looking at the plane when it is sitting on a tarmac somewhere. It just seems more important to him to point out that the plane is O!bama’s, rather than just carrying an ordinary US Senator.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  9. The less Barack I-Am-A-Spirit-In-A-Material-World Obama identifies himself with us bitter, gun-clinging, religion clinging, cousin-humping rednecks America, the more I like it.

    nk (c1e92f)

  10. Do McCain’s planes have flags on them?

    His new 737 likely does, as it is campaign-owned, but I don’t believe his older flights did, as they were charters from Jet Blue, and I am frankly completely unsure as to whether Jet Blue has a flag on the tail…

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  11. Here’s a shot of a current Jet Blue AirBus…
    http://www.jetblue.com/about/whyyoulllike/about_whyairbus.html,
    No flag on vertical stabilizer – but then, it is a French-made plane.

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  12. It also isn’t rated, I don’t beleive, for international flight… Domestic-only Carrier is Jet Blue, yes?

    And at any rate, he was chartering them, so what is or is not on the tail is Jet Blue’s issue, not McCain’s.

    The tail of Obama’s plane arrived with a flag which he had removed and replaced with his personal logo…

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  13. This is the same guy who decried the use of any and all flag pins, then abruptly decided that it was fine and dandy. Coming soon – Obama paints a giant flag on the fuselage, all in the name of “nuance.”

    Dmac (416471)

  14. Levi “Do McCain’s planes have flags on them?”

    I did a basic google image search, all I see are him getting off a typical “JetBlue” plane… That doesn’t mean anything either way… Just need to find some more pictures of him getting off his campaign planes…

    G (722480)

  15. “And he also doesn’t have any predesignated callsign like the POTUS or VPOTUS”

    POSSUMUS?

    fat tony (601b8d)

  16. Ohh sweet I found my plane!

    G

    G (722480)

  17. Levi,

    the new plane is supposed to mimic the straight talk bus’s imagery (which has a big flag in the front as the dominant image), so I think that noting his bus has flags is a great answer the question of what his plane looks like. The press is ignoring the plane, but has noted many times that his plane looks like his bus.

    Also, it’s relevant enough that Mccain put the flag on his older vehicles. Barack doesn’t use the flag, and often goes for a light blue / white UN color scheme. His campaign is unabashedly less patriotic, even using Guevara flags.

    Juan (a31de5)

  18. Am I the only one who thinks the Obama logo looks like a plastic teething ring for infants?

    Mahon (5ece56)

  19. Thanks, G.

    Yeah, it looks exactly like one of his buses, but with wings.

    The only image on the entire plane is a US flag. Once again, Levi could have been a lot nicer in his argumentation against the obvious, but yeah, of course Mccain has a flag on his plane. Unlike Obama, Mccain has never insulted people who display flags, and his campaign has used the flag many times. you would practically have to ignore Mccain’s entire message to miss it, which I guess Levi has. Too bad that Mccain, a guy many democrats used to respect, can’t even get many of the left to give him a fair hearing.

    Juan (a31de5)

  20. McCain does not need to wrap himself with the flag to prove his patriotism because he wrapped himself around the flag to protect it and the country it stands for. At great suffering and sacrifice to himself.

    Want to play, Levi?

    nk (c1e92f)

  21. I will say I find it very ironic that all my liberal friends in real life as well as other sites that I go to, used to praise McCain and exclaim their love for him. Now they talk like he’s Bush 3.

    G (722480)

  22. I’m glad to hear that Obama used a plane to get the Europe. As flattering as his press coverage has been, I was wondering if he hadn’t walked across the Atlantic Ocean.

    JVW (6a7c34)

  23. “to get to Europe” of course

    JVW (6a7c34)

  24. And with regards to Charlie Rangel, the rent controlled apartments (one of which, it should be noted, he is illegally using as a campaign headquarters) aren’t the worst of it; it turns out that he is soliciting donations for an academic institute named for him from parties (mostly corporations) that have business pending in front of the House Ways and Means Committee which he chairs. Not only that, but he is using Congressional stationery to do so. The Washington Post has the story here.

    JVW (6a7c34)

  25. I’m ultra liberal, and I don’t think McCain is Bush 3.

    TLove (b8e7b4)

  26. #15

    I was also thinking about Hillary’s (in)famous callsign, “Broomstick One”, when she went to visit the soldiers. (Some of whom had to be directly ordered to attend.)

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  27. Juan wrote: Unlike Obama, Mccain has never insulted people who display flags

    In anticipation of people claiming that’s not true, click here. Here’s what BHO said back in October 2007 (bold mine):

    “You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin,” Obama said. “Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest.

    “Instead,” he said, “I’m going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism.”

    I wonder what Carrie Haurum of Waterloo, Iowa thought of his decision to start wearing it again.

    L.N. Smithee (d1de1b)

  28. L.N., I get a 403 error for that link.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  29. Until now, my animus towards BHO was strictly academic. His concepts were flat wrong, if not ludicrous, but I never actually disliked the man.

    That is done.

    That slimeball dares call himself a patriot? He has the utter gall to vote to decrease the military’s preparedness and then refuses to meet with those who would have fought with incrementally fewer weapons and smaller force strength had his concept won the day?

    I am furious. At least Carter served. This Obama isn’t much of a man. He may be a product of his environment and decades of his people’s strife, but damnit, he chose to be a political leader. If such a person can’t be bothered to express thanks for the sacrifice made on our behalf, such a person should be shamed and scorned.

    I’ll tell you what. Wild freaking horses wouldn’t keep W or McCain from our brave wounded. Nor any other decent, let alone patriotic, elected official.

    Ed (59b337)

  30. McCain’s speech in Denver today was quite good. He really spells out the likely consequences had Obama’s legendary judgment been followed. I know of course he’s running for office and he’s not psychic or however anyone cares to eviscerate a casual observation. I also realize that Obama’s politically brave act of being against the war from the beginning trumps all arguments. And the racism thing and all.

    Jack Klompus (b796b4)

  31. The man doesn’t particularly like the flag. He didn’t live under it for much of his life and he’s more comfortable with Europe than he is with the mainland US.

    I don’t know how in the world anyone votes for a guy who wants to take 60% of their paycheck, doesn’t like the flag and a foreign policy that wavers between Neville Chamberlain and Bert Lahr in the Wizard of Oz.

    cfbleachers (4040c7)

  32. Neville Chamberlain was in the Wizard of Oz?

    Wow, you learn something new every day…

    😉

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  33. Or the you do and I’ll give you such a pinch! elephant in Warner Brothers cartoon?

    Jack Klompus (b796b4)

  34. Here is an Article about McCain’s Plane that has pictures of both planes (McCain, Obama). One of them has a US flag on it.

    kaf (5fdaff)

  35. >> Rep. Charlie Rangel’s rent-controlled apartments save him so much money that “he was forced to complain about himself to the [House] ethics committee.”

    Nobody forced him except for, surprisingly, The New York Times. But Rangel’s ample posterior is in the most secure seat in Congress, thanks to the power-worshippers in his Brooklyn district. If he’s asking for a self-probe, it’s because the fix is already in. He wants to play this like he’s flagellating himself a la Opus Dei legends, but in fact the whip he’s beating himself over the shoulder with is made of overcooked spaghetti.

    Mr. Ways & Means knows it will take a lot more than a simple financial scandal to put him in danger of losing an election, and that’s why the Dems want him there; Howard Dean doesn’t trust vulnerable pols like Tom Daschle with power. That’s why tried-and-true Congressional dinosaurs like Nancy Pelosi and Barney “My Boyfriend’s Running a WHAT Out of My House?” Frank get the big jobs.

    >> The committee hosting the Democratic National Convention in Denver was caught “using the city’s gas pumps to fill up on fuel, avoiding state and federal highway taxes.” The 4-month-old practice was ended after it was brought to light at a Denver City Council meeting.

    “What can I say? ‘Some animals are more equal than others!’ HEE-HAW!”

    L.N. Smithee (d1de1b)

  36. The issue is not whether or not McCain’s planes have a flag on them. That’s Levi’s usual juvenile attempt to derail a thread like the troll he is.

    The question is why did Obama’s campaign feel the need to make the affirmative action of removing a flag?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  37. L.N. — Aw man, will Rangel’s self-probe take place on the floor of the House?

    Jack Klompus (b796b4)

  38. Drumwaster wrote: L.N., I get a 403 error for that link.

    Yeah, I know. Sorry. If you have too many blockquotes, the preview feature short-circuits itself.

    Try it now (ahem):

    I wonder what Carrie Haurum of Waterloo, Iowa thought of his decision to start wearing it again.

    L.N. Smithee (d1de1b)

  39. Jack Klompus wrote: L.N. — Aw man, will Rangel’s self-probe take place on the floor of the House?

    If I was a tasteless guy, I might suggest that Barney Frank might enjoy that.

    But I’m not a tasteless guy, so I won’t.

    L.N. Smithee (d1de1b)

  40. Barack Obama’s plane illustrates that he thinks symbols are important and I agree. I’m glad he didn’t use his Presidential seal but he could have kept the American flag and added the signature Obama swoosh.

    Heh. Maybe Obama just didn’t need to be reminded.


    “Yes. The real word is a SYMBOL.” The New Teacher frowned. “But we don’t need a sign to remind us that we love our country, do we? You’re all good boys and girls. Do you need a sign to remind you?”

    Guess that reference.

    Alex (2edb43)

  41. 41. The Children’s Story!

    Jack Klompus (b796b4)

  42. Alex, in his Berlin speech, Obama said that he was a citizen of the United States and a citizen of the World. Seems like he does need a reminder.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  43. Alex, in his Berlin speech, Obama said that he was a citizen of the United States and a citizen of the World. Seems like he does need a reminder.

    “Let me say at once that I am no advocate of a foolish cosmopolitanism. I believe that a man must be a good patriot before he can be, and as the only possible way of being, a good citizen of the world. Experience teaches us that the average man who protests that his international feeling swamps his national feeling, that he does not care for his country because he cares so much for mankind, in actual practice proves himself the foe of mankind; that the man who says that he does not care to be a citizen of any one country, because he is the citizen of the world, is in fact usually an exceedingly undesirable citizen of whatever corner of the world he happens at the moment to be in. In the dim future all moral needs and moral standards may change; but at present, if a man can view his own country and all others countries from the same level with tepid indifference, it is wise to distrust him, just as it is wise to distrust the man who can take the same dispassionate view of his wife and mother. However broad and deep a man’s sympathies, however intense his activities, he need have no fear that they will be cramped by love of his native land.” — Teddy Roosevelt

    Emphasis mine

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  44. SPQR is right, what’s bizarre here is that Obama’s staff saw a flag on his plane, and thought it made sense to paint Obama’s ‘workers of the world unite’ theme logo over that flag.

    But for all I know they had that planned out before they saw the plane they got. These are the same friends of Obama who have flown flags with Che on them. The same who, frankly, have even bombed the pentagon. Obama has a huge problem with patriotism in his staff, and for some reason he insists on rejecting the simple symbols of patriotism in adopting his own symbols, which evoke the UN and China.

    but this isn’t exactly on my top ten list of issues.

    Frankly, I thought using the Jetblue planes was more savvy. Made Mccain look a lot less arrogant than Obama with his pseudo Air Force One. But I guess he does need a plane and all that.

    Juan (a31de5)

  45. “Ich bin ein Beginner!”

    steve miller (0da5b6)

  46. #46…
    Exactly!

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  47. So the new official reason to not vote for Obama is…. because he doesn’t have a flag on his plane?

    This is an issue to you people?

    Levi (74ca1f)

  48. No, it isn’t that it “doesn’t”, it’s that it had one and Obama thought it was more important to display an homage to himself.

    World-class narcissism, in other words. Something you show an… intimate familiarity with, I might add…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  49. Gift wrapped for the dim’s, this election was. Even Johnny ‘nam Kerry could probably close the deal in 2008. And BO is on his way to screwing it up.

    Good times! We can’t afford him right now so we’re lucky to, hopefully, dodge the bullet.

    Chris (b6ebef)

  50. No, it isn’t that it “doesn’t”, it’s that it had one and Obama thought it was more important to display an homage to himself.

    World-class narcissism, in other words. Something you show an… intimate familiarity with, I might add…

    Jeeeeee-sus. An ‘homage to himself.’ And now we’re directly attributing the idea to Obama even though there’s nothing to suggest he had anything to do with it, that’s how it’s gonna be now? Unless you have some hot tip… do you have a hot tip?

    Levi (74ca1f)

  51. Levi,
    A major party candidate for the presidency of the United States could reasonably be expected to ask, upon inspecting his campaign plane for the first time, where’s my flag? It is his plane after all.

    That the thought probably never crossed his mind is noteworthy. And the alternative would be damning. Not to you, of course. But in the view of, oh I don’t know, maybe 80-85% of the public.

    Judgment. To lead?

    Chris (b6ebef)

  52. A major party candidate for the presidency of the United States could reasonably be expected to ask, upon inspecting his campaign plane for the first time, where’s my flag? It is his plane after all.

    And this is something you’d thought about before you read this thread, right? It’s been your long-held opinion that it’s reasonable to expect that a Presidential candidate makes sure his campaign plane has a big flag on the tail for how many years or election cycles now, exactly?

    That the thought probably never crossed his mind is noteworthy. And the alternative would be damning. Not to you, of course. But in the view of, oh I don’t know, maybe 80-85% of the public.

    Are you serious? You think people care about whether or not Obama has a big flag on the tail of his plane? There aren’t many solid majorities of opinion in this country, but you’re telling me that the ‘campaign plane tail graphic issue’ is one of them?

    Levi (74ca1f)

  53. He’s in a bind either way. If he didn’t notice, that’s problematic. He’s running for the presidency of the US. He may be a citizen of the world but most people in flyover land, the place where elections are decided, tend to think of themselves as Americans.

    You can spin it any way you want but the electorate simply has another data point. Kind of like the flag lapel pin. I wouldn’t be surprised if the campaign rolls out version 2.0 of the plane in the next few weeks, resplendent w/Old Glory.

    The flag is easily an 80-20 issue in the US. Not difficult to understand. You and BO’s staff may not like that but it is what it is.

    Drilling. It’s 70-30 now headed for 80-20 by election day. The elite don’t get that one either and probably never will.

    Illegal immigration is another. I could go on listing the solid majority opinions that cost Dem’s (and sometimes Republicans) elections but I’m sure you know them.

    Chris (b6ebef)

  54. Read these words, O ye doubters of The Precious, and believe!

    And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.

    The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow. . .

    H/t to Swamper Vivian Louise

    Bradley J Fikes (0ea407)

  55. Dear Sir / Madam

    I have in my possession a World War 1 flag that measures five and a half inches by three inches, it is silk and has 48 stars on it, i assume that that was the amount of states in the country at that time. It was given to my grand father and it passed down to my mother and to me after she passed away. The history that my mother was told was that it was exchanged some where in France by a American soldier GI to my grand father. Can you please give me or tell me where i can find out any information or that you may know about it.

    Kind regards

    Michael Fowler

    Michael Fowler (6c543b)


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