Patterico's Pontifications

7/18/2008

Mmm, That’s Good Irony

Filed under: Race — Patterico @ 8:17 am



As regular readers know, I’m a fan of irony. Here’s some: Whoopi Goldberg talking about how oppressed she is.

I have an offer for Whoopi: you give me half of your wealth, and I’ll take half your skin hue as well.

Deal? Have your girl call my girl, babe. Oh, wait: I don’t have a “girl.” Well, just call me, then.

111 Responses to “Mmm, That’s Good Irony”

  1. If you can complain on national television about how oppressed you are, you aren’t oppressed…

    This is from the same logic that tells us “If Bush really WAS the second coming of Hitler, bitching about it would have gotten you killed long before now…”

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  2. “I have an offer for Whoopi: you give me half of your wealth …”
    Trouble is, most of her wealth was invested in Flooz. Remember Flooz?

    g Hussein p (72be5d)

  3. whoopi is the point woman for the next great civil rights battle: equal rights for the ugly. it must be heartbreaking for her to know that there isn’t enough money or beer in the world to get most guys’ little soldiers to stand at attention for her.

    assistant devil's advocate (08b72b)

  4. You think that’s why she hates Hasselbeck so much?

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  5. I appreciate the morning chuckle. Marxists in three hundred dollar shoes are one thing.

    I’m sure that Caryn Johnson has been treated badly in the past because of her skin color. But look over her biography at Wikipedia. There is a lot of interesting stuff there, but here are her professional accolades:

    “She is one of only thirteen people who have won an Emmy, a Grammy, an Oscar, and a Tony Award, including Daytime Emmy Awards. In 1990, she became the second African American female performer after Hattie McDaniel to win an Academy Award for acting. She has won two Golden Globe Awards and two Saturn Awards for her performances in Star Trek Generations and Ghost”

    That ought to help to some degree. The best revenge against bad people is to live well and be happy. She does the former and I hope the latter as well.

    Eric Blair (02ec00)

  6. Whoopi is an idiot. Can’t figure out why people haven’t recognized this yet.

    Next time I hear a Black person outraged over a non-Black saying “Nigger”, I’m going to tell them stop using it yourself.

    PCD (5c49b0)

  7. For half her wealth, I’ll take _all_ of her skin color, her physiognomy, and her screechy voice.

    Larry Sheldon (86b2e1)

  8. Racists.

    JD (5f0e11)

  9. If anyone has no business complaining about being oppressed, it’s a marginally-talented, unattractive black woman with a stupid stage name who is never hurting for work and who has chosen to romance (for long stretches of time) white actors who are infinitely out of her class in the looks department (Ted Danson & Frank Langella). Compare her with Josephine Baker, Dorothy Dandridge, and other black women who were world-class performers, but segregated from superstardom and acceptance.

    Say what you will about Elisabeth Hasselbeck’s voice and often fragile emotions; she was dead right calling Whoopi and Sherri out. They, like other myopic black Americans, are willing to sacrifice civility among themselves for the hollow privilege of saying they have appropriated a slur for their own use, and are willing to use it as a hammer against the “wrong” people who dare to utter it. Elisabeth was willing to take up the Obama invitation of the “discussion” about race, and Whoopi and Sherri just gagged her with an argument identical with the brainless t-shirt slogan from the nineties: “It’s a Black Thing – You Wouldn’t Understand.”

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  10. g hussein p wrote: Trouble is, most of her wealth was invested in Flooz. Remember Flooz?

    On cnet.com’s Top 10 dot-com flops, Flooz is ranked 4th, behind only poorly-conceived webtailers Webvan, Pets.com, and Kozmo.com.

    L.N. Smithee (b048eb)

  11. I think she feels she’s oppressed because she isn’t Oprah. Smaller ratings, less respect…that sort of thing!

    proof (4721a6)

  12. L.N. Smithee, your #9 post was fantastic. Very well put!

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  13. Ted Danson and Whoopi as a couple proved that not only can’t white men jump or dance, but some have taste for spit as well. I thought Whoopie and Cher were decent actresses, but otherwise they should keep their pieholes shut. Is Oprah still down with O!banus or has she thrown him under the bus because it affected ratings?
    But what do I know? I’m just a little gurly mon, never having split a black oak and thus failing to understand the saying that once you go black, you don’t go back. Is the reverse true for black men? Guess I’m not a compassionate conservative like love600AD and won’t pine for spinning top Urkel as Prez.

    madmax333 (5366cc)

  14. Patrick you wouldn’t last ten minutes if you looked like me.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  15. I watched them this week commenting on the New Yorker cover and was incredulous at their smug, self-righteousness while attempting to defend Obama. It was just as if Whoopi, Joy, and Sherri were talking about a defenseless, precious child, not a man, let alone a man who wants to be prez.

    When discussing racism toward blacks and the use of the N word, Sherri Shepherd commented that she was told by the animal shelter when she was dog shopping, that the last dogs to ever get adopted were black male dogs of any breed.

    Sheperd shook her head in disapproval and noted that in America even her black dog brothers have it hard.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  16. Victimology is a disease.

    Or is it ‘victimitis’. ‘Victim Pox’? ‘Victimorrhea’?

    Whoopi won’t lay off until every possible racial statistic you could ever think of reflects parity. That is the Marxist credo after all: enforced equality. It starts with unemployment, poverty, and education numbers, then moves on to crime and prison population stats, and proceeds to equal representation within every major institution in American life; but not to worry, she will never press us on the high incidence of abortion and single motherhood within the black community.

    Icy Truth (ae62e7)

  17. If you read the original transcript what becomes increasingly clear between Whoopi and Elisabeth is that Elisabeth is immediately and consistently dismissed as not understanding there are two different worlds (one for whites, one for blacks) and that the usage of the N word is perfectly fine for one and not the other. And no matter how hard Elisabeth attempts to understand why the hypocrisy is acceptable, she is still dismissed.

    That is because the only way to understand Whoopi and Sherry’s line of thinking is to agree with it. If you don’t agree, you don’t understand. If you agree, then you can join their club.

    They are not interested in debate, or discussion, or acknowledging they are the ones that have willfully imposed a double-standard .

    Its a dishonest, disingenuous discussion from the get-go because there is only one acceptable position in the eyes of Whoopi and Sherry. Nothing else, no matter how rational or logical, matters.

    I emailed ABC and voiced my complaint about the ridiculous imbalance of having three left-leaning women (and aggressive at that) and one right. Lets get another conservative on the panel who is has a tougher hide…like say, Laura Ingraham.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  18. Laura just put together her $4M deal or at least somewhere in the neighborhood. And she’s way too good for that tripe served up on The View. Sadly, her input wouldn’t educate or enlighten anyone onstage or in the audience.

    Hasselbeck apparently plays ‘conservative stooge’ and basically serves as the panel’s resident pincushion. But the money sounds good.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  19. Of course it’s conditional equal representation. Blacks make up 12.3% of the population. In the House of Representatives 9.2% of the members are black; in the Senate it’s 1% (just Obama). In the NBA 75% of the players are black; in the NFL it’s 70%. In baseball the percentage of black players has plummeted over the past thirty years, from 25% (twice the percentage in the general population) to 10% (a little under); this due to the rise in Latino players (from 10 to 25%; also twice the percent in the general population) while the number of white players has held steady (60-65%).

    Whoopi will complain about the representation in Congress, and in the case of the Senate at least you could say her concern is justified. [One would think, or hope, that Mississippi (36% black), Louisiana (33% black), Georgia (29%), or South Carolina (30%) would be capable of electing a qualified black candidate.] But you will never hear her complain about the disparity against whites in the NBA and NFL — nor should she. Eric Blair referred to Whoopi as a Marxist, and I echoed it in my previous post. “From each according to his ability” is a major component of Marxist philosophy. In this context it means putting into place the best, the brightest, the most talented . . . the most qualified person for the job, regardless of ethnicity. Whoopi is okay with that concept, with the huge caveat that there is minimum representation equal to the percentage of blacks in the general population; and that means affirmative action forever.

    Icy Truth (ae62e7)

  20. I’m more upset that Joel Stein has written a good piece on why Obama should be included in political humor. Mr. Stein used madmax’s priceless campaign name, Urkel in the LAT. C’mon, Mr. Stein! Good article- but you give that handle back. Madmax333 came up with that. And I’m not entirely sure that m.max isn’t Michael Savage’s twin brother loose at the keyboard! .. heh

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  21. Vermont Neighbor, I think she would throw out possibilities that some on stage and in the audience have never considered. What they do with those possibilities isn’t the point – at least they would be given a strong voice.

    I’d like to see her go up against Whoopi & co. When she was a guest host about 6 months or so ago, she did quite well. And didn’t back down.

    Elisabeth is a sweet girl. And thats the problem .

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  22. Elisabeth saw what happened to her former adversary, and realized that the axe could swing in the other direction next time.

    Icy Truth (ae62e7)

  23. When one can’t logically and rationally debate a position, one (or two or three in this case) bullies.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  24. White Makes Right. As usual.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  25. I must be really, really oppressed, because Whoppi gets a better table at Spagos than I do.

    Perfect Sense (23c691)

  26. That is because the only way to understand Whoopi and Sherry’s line of thinking is to agree with it. If you don’t agree, you don’t understand. If you agree, then you can join their club.

    Its a dishonest, disingenuous discussion from the get-go because there is only one acceptable position in the eyes of Whoopi and Sherry. Nothing else, no matter how rational or logical, matters.

    Comment by Dana — 7/18/2008 @ 11:56 am

    Thank you. Exactly right.

    no one you know (1f5ddb)

  27. Joy, Whoopi, Liz, Sherri

    Read a few transcripts of their show.

    They oughtta call it “Dumb, Dumb, Dumber, Dumber than a stump”.

    Dave Surls (793e0b)

  28. In case you forgot, you are all racists.

    JD (75f5c3)

  29. In case you forgot, you are all racists.

    Damned straight. Ain’t no race better than us humans.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  30. Oh, I forgot to add that you are jingoistic misogynistic xenophobic homophobes.

    JD (75f5c3)

  31. Icy Truth, please do a little research before commenting on Georgia politics.

    FYI, Georgia is a fairly conservative state – except, of course, for Atlanta, which gave us the lovely Cynthia McKinney. (Oh, well, at least she was/is black, and that’s all that REALLY matters to the race counters.)

    Anyway, if/when a competent conservative black emerges in Georgia politics, I am certain that he/she will be given a fair shake by conservative voters of all races. I say this because all of the conservatives I know vote on the basis of a candidate’s qualifications, and not his/her skin color. (How many liberals can honestly say the same thing?)

    (Speaking of libs: Vernon Jones, a black guy from metro Atlanta, is in the Democratic runoff for the right to challenge incumbent Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss in November.)

    One more thing, Icy: almost half of all blacks in this country fail to graduate from high school. In addition, a high percentage of black men are either in prison, on parole, or on probation.

    Obviously, low graduation rates and high crime rates have done much to reduce the pool of potential black candidates.

    Thus, don’t you think that these factors (and not “racism” among voters) are the primary reason that blacks are “under-represented” in Congress?

    Bubba Maximus (456175)

  32. high crime rates have done much to reduce the pool of potential black candidates.

    Why? The dems have little issue with guys like Cold Cash Jefferson or Marion Barry… Why should a record be holding them back?

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  33. “White Makes Right. As usual.”

    Village Idiot/Professional Victimologist/ Gay/Black/24/7 poster proves his bona fides. As usual.

    Dmac (416471)

  34. Oh gosh, Dmac, I didn’t see DE following me – again! Heh.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  35. Icy Truth, please do a little research before commenting on Georgia politics.

    Herman Cain.

    G (722480)

  36. Dana wrote: Lets get another conservative on the panel who is has a tougher hide…like say, Laura Ingraham.

    Not only couldn’t ABC afford Laura Ingraham, whose stock is rising in the talk radio world, she wouldn’t take the job for any price (if I know her like I think I do, and I listen to her show every day). Laura was a guest co-host a few months ago filling in for the pregnant Hasselbeck, and she looked very uncomfortable knowing that as soon as she opened her mouth, she’d have a coven jumping down her throat.

    I only am able to see The View when I’m too sick to work, but the last time I was, Michelle O. was on. I was impressed with Liz — I think the fact that schoolyard bully Rosie went running away crying after Hasselbeck finally gave her the rhetorical punch in the face she had coming for a long time gave her a little bit more confidence. The fact that she teared up in the exchange yesterday tells me she genuinely likes these liberal women, and wants to get along with them. I don’t think it would be as important to Laura, and while I would be cheering, it wouldn’t be pretty.

    L.N. Smithee (e1f2bf)

  37. Whoopi is where she is because of two words – the first is the “F” word and of course the “N” word…

    eartiets (56a0a8)

  38. 1. Scott Jacobs: If you can complain on national television about how oppressed you are, you aren’t oppressed…

    Yeah, that reminds me of pro-Palestinian propagandists who write op-eds and best-sellers and go on Larry King and other talk shows and take out full-page ads in the New York Times — all the while complaining that no one is allowed to cricize Israel.

    aunursa (1b5bad)

  39. Icy Truth, Bubba, please do a little research before commenting on Georgia politics.

    Anyway, if/when a competent conservative black emerges in Georgia politics, I am certain that he/she will be given a fair shake by conservative voters of all races. I say this because all of the conservatives I know vote on the basis of a candidate’s qualifications, and not his/her skin color.

    Apologies for the double post. But a few years back, the overly competent Herman Cain ran for Senate in the primary in Georgia. He now does a talk show on 750 WSB, among other things.

    G (722480)

  40. Vermont neighbor-
    thanks, but urkel originated someplace else. I did later see Obama complaining that he looked like urkel riding his photo-op bike.

    The View needs someone like that “man” who recently gave birth or some other weirdo like the unnamed west coast protest parade moonbat with the peace signs painted all over his body and the super-inflated scrotom immortalized by zombietime dot com. The scenes from boobs not bombs parade are really great when you need visual stimulation for masturbating..not. I imagine they’re the kind of skanky lady libs that levi and company pine for endlessly.

    madmax333 (9bba0e)

  41. David Ehrenstein wrote: Patrick you wouldn’t last ten minutes if you looked like me.

    Why wouldn’t he, David?

    L.N. Smithee (e1f2bf)

  42. Because Patrick just can’t understand the STRUGGLE…

    Pfft. With Patrick’s brains, he’s be the fucking DA if he was black…

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  43. “Joy, Whoopi, Liz, Sherri…. Read a few transcripts of their show…They oughtta call it “Dumb, Dumb, Dumber, Dumber than a stump”.

    I’ve always maintained that The View has consistently made women look bad. Meh.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  44. “The scenes from boobs not bombs parade are really great when you need visual stimulation for masturbating..not.”

    “Not” doesn’t begin to cover it. I saw Zombie’s coverage, and couldn’t have sex for a year.

    That stuff needs a NSFL (not safe for libido) warning.

    Dave Surls (793e0b)

  45. Dave Surls wrote: “Not” doesn’t begin to cover it. I saw Zombie’s coverage, and couldn’t have sex for a year.

    You were lucky. I couldn’t stand the sight of pancakes, either.

    L.N. Smithee (e1f2bf)

  46. Bubba Maximus,

    When I see that John Lewis, Sanford Bishop, David Scott, and Hank Johnson — 10% of the current black representation in Congress — are from Georgia; and that the Mayors of Atlanta and Savannah are black, I’m thinking it’s possible. But then maybe it’s more likely to happen as it did with Obama, where a bluer-than-blue state comes through.

    Thus, don’t you think that these factors (and not “racism” among voters) are the primary reason that blacks are “under-represented” in Congress?

    — Currently there are 40 blacks in the House of Representatives. To make 12.3% that number would need to increase to 54. Don’t you think that from among 35 million black people in the country . . . 14 qualified, electable candidates could be found? Subtract out convicted felons, high school dropouts, the very young and the very old; say that that leaves a pool of 14 million people. Are you saying that .001 (a thousandth of a percent) of that population isn’t electable? Three of those 40 representatives come from districts with majority white populations; the average black population for those 40 districts is 49%; three of the districts have an Asian population above 10%; 12 of the districts have a Hispanic population above 10%. Is the race of the electorate a factor in whether or not a black candidate is elected? Most of the time, YES.

    Anyway, if/when a competent conservative black emerges in Georgia politics, I am certain that he/she will be given a fair shake by conservative voters of all races.

    — Agreed. Maybe what we need is for 14 black conservatives to step up in conservative-friendly districts.

    Icy Truth (ae62e7)

  47. Why, Patrick! Obviously you are just a sexist, for how dare you (1) assume Whoopi’s personal assistant/ flunky is female, and (2) call Whoopi “babe”? Tsk.

    And obviously you are a racist, to be so casually tossing around the word “girl” over and over when addressing a black female!

    It’s enough to make David Ehrenstein — a PUBLISHED WRITER, mind you — seethe. Can you feel the seething?

    Mitch (890cbf)

  48. #39 – G

    We get Herman Cain’s radio show here in Arizona, through syndication, one day a week; Saturday afternoons. He’s quite good.

    Icy Truth (ae62e7)

  49. I guess I’ll write something nice about WG. She was very good in The Color Purple. And her early standup had some clever bits. I guess Ghost is in the top ten chixflix; WG gets some of the credit.

    LNS, here’s another thumbs-up for Josephine Baker. Some of her stuff is showing up on Netflix. I really liked Siren of the Tropics. As a silent actor, she blows Charlie Chaplin away.

    g Hussein p (ea9df7)

  50. It’s tough to know how she feels since we haven’t lived her life.

    TLove (b8e7b4)

  51. Boy you’ve got all the meme’s down pat, don’t you now, Rich.

    I’ll bet you think that Whoopi and Sheri represent all African-Americans and I agree with every single word they say.

    Isn’t that right, Dmac? I agree with every single word they say cause I’m black and all blacks think alike except for the Three Cs (Clarence, Colin and Condi) and famously freethinking Thomas Sowell.

    (Dana, please don’t flatter yourself to imagine that I’m stalking you.)

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  52. Elisabeth has, by far, the most stable personal life. Coincidence?

    Icy Truth (ae62e7)

  53. How do you know what her personal life is like? Are you dating her?

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  54. “I agree with every single word they say cause I’m black and all blacks think alike…”

    You don’t agree with anyone but yourself; but since you have a strong tendency to exhibit bi – polar/manic depressive behavior, you likely have no idea what you think at any given moment. Perhaps there is an alien race somewhere that’s more akin with your specific grievance mongering -make sure to get back to us when you find that magical place, will you? Thanks a bunch.

    Dmac (416471)

  55. My goodness! A cyber-diagnosis. Dmac’s powers are such that he’s able to declare me “bi – polar/manic depressive”!

    Most impresive.

    Meanwhile to return to the topic at hand it is my sincere wish that the “N-word” be retired from usage by all, regardless of race.

    I should also like to see the retirement of the “V-word” (victim). But to “Conservatives” it’s verbal cocaine. They can’t stop snorting it.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  56. Don’t you think that from among 35 million black people in the country . . . 14 qualified, electable candidates could be found?

    They apparently can’t find ONE to run for President. (I mean, seriously, Barack is the best you have?)

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  57. I guess I’ll write something nice about WG. She was very good in The Color Purple. And her early standup had some clever bits. I guess Ghost is in the top ten chixflix; WG gets some of the credit.

    Comment by g Hussein p — 7/18/2008 @ 3:51 pm

    She did do an awesome job in The Color Purple IMO; along with Margaret Avery she made that movie. (She was pretty funny in Sister Act too.) Her early comedy’s a bit raw for me but I remember a bit about a little African-American girl who doesn’t see her own beauty and wishes ardently for long blond hair instead of her own; very moving.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  58. That bit was one of the best things she ever did. I found The Color Purple terrible. Maudlin, overcooked with the last half hour consisting of one overwrought “ending” after another until the damned thing was (finally) over. Easily Spielberg’s worst film.

    I always found it amusing, however, when whites of my acquaintance referred to it as The Colored People.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  59. DE, you told us once what your all-time favorite movie was. It was some shocking foreign grotesquerie skewering the upper classes, wasn’t it?

    g Hussein p (ea9df7)

  60. “I always found it amusing, however, when whites of my acquaintance referred to it as The Colored People.”

    Yeah, white people are always doing that kind of casually ignorant naively bigoted stuff. I’ll bet it happened dozens of times, huh?

    g Hussein p (ea9df7)

  61. Easily Spielberg’s worst film.

    Ah…worse than “1941“?

    Eric Blair (02ec00)

  62. David,
    Are you the LAT’s David Ehrenstein? Of Rush/Barack fame? Sorry. I’m a bit slow on the uptake.

    Chris (b6ebef)

  63. #53 – David Ehrenstein

    How do you know what her personal life is like? Are you dating her?

    — Yeah, it is hard to find out personal info on celebrities these days; especially for five women, two of which have written memoirs, who mention portions of their personal histories five days a week every week in front of a national television audience.

    It’s amazing that I even knew that she had a personal life.

    Icy Truth (dfa803)

  64. #56 – Drumwaster

    They apparently can’t find ONE to run for President. (I mean, seriously, Barack is the best you have?)

    — Well, as I noted, Barack is the only black Senator, and Representatives never get elected president. Governors? There’s Deval Patrick (Obama’s ghost-writer) who is struggling in Massachusetts; David Paterson, who could be the first legally-blind president but for what he’s revealed of his past; former Virginia Governor Douglas Wilder who is 77; and that’s it for potential candidates based on their resume, except for Colin Powell who, if he wanted to run, would have done so 12 years ago.

    Icy Truth (dfa803)

  65. I guess Patterico is moderating the comments now, so if this is a repeat, I apologize.

    DE writes: “I always found it amusing, however, when whites of my acquaintance referred to it as The Colored People.”

    I call BS on that statement! I don’t believe anybody said that to DE even once, let alone the multiple instances that DE’s post implies.

    Obviously, I can prove nothing about the behavior of DE’s “white acquaintances.” I do know for a fact that I’ve seen white people weep (and I, an extremely pale white person, have wept twice) watching The Color Purple.

    Yes, of course the movie is maudlin! I think that was the intention of the writer, and the director. It worked!

    I’m saying, flat out, DE was lying in his above quoted statement. His writings remind me of something a hyper-educated Debbie Downer would concoct: always contrary, always negative, always grieving.

    gp (ea9df7)

  66. I want to hear from at least TWO of DE’s “white acquaintances,” either:

    1) “Yes, I, through indifference or ignorance or carelessnesa or thoughtlessness or brainfart, misidentified the movie ‘The Color Purple’ as ‘The Colored People.'”

    or

    2) “Yes, I, through racial hatred, denigrated the movie ‘The Color Purple’ as ‘The Colored People.'”

    I suspect that the response will be:

    3) It Never Happened. DE took a cheap shot, and only gp called him on it.

    gp (ea9df7)

  67. We get Herman Cain’s radio show here in Arizona, through syndication, one day a week; Saturday afternoons. He’s quite good.

    To clarify my earlier post, it should have read Icy Truth with your name being struck out, but I don’t think it is working… at least on my screen.

    Regarding Herman Cain, I’d love to see him try again, just hope he wins the primary. His radio show is excellent, very good stuff. If you are so inclined, it is broadcast on the internet, I can provide a link to his homepage, but I’m sure google can too. I don’t quite know Patterico’s policy on links, so yeah…

    G (c0157b)

  68. Representatives never get elected president

    Really? I was under the impression that it was SENATORS who had the rough time getting into the white house.

    I should also like to see the retirement of the “V-word” (victim).

    Al and Jesse would be out of a job, so I support this inititive…

    But to “Conservatives” it’s verbal cocaine. They can’t stop snorting it.

    Name three prominate Con’s who has spoken of victimhood in the last 12 months…

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  69. I would posit the lack of viable black candidates for public office, including the Presidency, is partly due to the way the House of Representatives has been racially gerrymandered.

    Bear in mind that Obama did not profit from the gerrymandering system, at least not at the national level. He catapulted to fame by running in a statewide election when he declared for Senate. This meant he had to learn to immediately appeal to people from all backgrounds, ethnic and economic. This is a critical skill if one is to later aspire to even higher office.

    By contrast, someone like Charley Rangel can welcome Fidel Castro with open arms and have no fear of reprisal the following November because Cuban-Americans do not consitute a core constituency his district. Maxine Waters chanted “No justice, no peace” while L.A. burned during the riots and yet she still coasted to re-election because she didn’t need to rely on white and Korean votes in order to win. That’s why you will never see politicians of their ilk in a statewide election or on a national ticket. These people have no clue how to appeal to people outside their narrowly defined districts. And why would they? They’ve never had to before.

    The same argument, in case you’re wondering, applies to white candidates as well. By default, creating blacks-only (or largely blacks-only) districts only creates whiter competing districts. Black outreach if you’re a Congressman from an all-white district? Why bother? Ditto Asians and Hispanics.

    In short, if you want better candidates at the major league level, you need a better farm system. End racial gerrymandering and force candidates to compete in districts drawn along geographic, not racial, lines. Many currently seated black Representatives would suddenly vanish from Congress, that’s true, but then hopefully so would some of their more provincial Wonder Bread counterparts. The candidates who did prevail, whether seasoned veterans or rookies new to the game, would be those best adapted to forging broad-based coalitions. Over time, some of these politicians would be more suited to higher office, say the Senate or the Governorship, and from there, one day, the White House.

    And that’s how you would get more black candidates at the major league level.

    DubiousD (97e42d)

  70. #68 – Scott Jacobs

    I was under the impression that it was SENATORS who had the rough time getting into the white house.

    — 1) That isn’t a problem this year. 2) The only sitting member of the House of Representatives ever to be elected president was James A. Garfield; and, of course, he also had ‘Major General during the Civil War’ on his resume. Lincoln was the only other president for whom ‘Member of the House’ was his biggest public position prior to becoming president; in his case there was a ten year gap between the two, during which he: worked as a lawyer, was a major player in organizing the “new” Republican Party, and ran for Senate (losing). 3) Many presidents have ‘Senator’ on their resume, but they were serving in another capacity — several of them as Secretary of State — at the time of their election to the White House.

    Icy Truth (dfa803)

  71. DE, you told us once what your all-time favorite movie was. It was some shocking foreign grotesquerie skewering the upper classes, wasn’t it?

    Comment by g Hussein p — 7/18/2008 @ 7:31 pm

    My favorite movie is Patrice Chereau’s Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train, and it’s far from “some shocking foreign grotesquerie skewering the upper classes.” It’s a film about love and friendship, parents and children. Go rent the DVD and see for yourself

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  72. Yeah, white people are always doing that kind of casually ignorant naively bigoted stuff. I’ll bet it happened dozens of times, huh?

    Comment by g Hussein p — 7/18/2008 @ 7:39 pm

    Even once would be more than enough. it was a lot more. But you wouldn’t know about that, or care.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  73. David,
    Are you the LAT’s David Ehrenstein? Of Rush/Barack fame? Sorry. I’m a bit slow on the uptake.

    Comment by Chris — 7/18/2008 @ 9:47 pm

    Infame is more like it. CBS television even sent a crew to interview me about drug addict. But they never ran it.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  74. Ah…worse than “1941“?

    Comment by Eric Blair — 7/18/2008 @ 8:35 pm

    1941 is what the French would call a film maudit. Completely insane but amazingly directed. Go rent the DVD and watch it on a decent-sized screen. As pieces of direction the dogfight over Hollywood boulevard and the dance sequences are truly somethign else as is the performance of the late, great and much-missed Wendy Jo Sperber.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  75. Name three prominate Con’s who has spoken of victimhood in the last 12 months…

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 7/19/2008 @ 12:46 am

    Whyb go for “prominence” when it’s all over this dicussion board from characters like Dmac?

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  76. Obviously, I can prove nothing about the behavior of DE’s “white acquaintances.” I do know for a fact that I’ve seen white people weep (and I, an extremely pale white person, have wept twice) watching The Color Purple.

    Yes, of course the movie is maudlin! I think that was the intention of the writer, and the director. It worked!

    I’m saying, flat out, DE was lying in his above quoted statement. His writings remind me of something a hyper-educated Debbie Downer would concoct: always contrary, always negative, always grieving.

    Comment by gp — 7/18/2008 @ 10:52 pm

    Wow! White people crying at a Spielberg movie! That proves that racism does not exist anymore — of it ever did. Right gp?

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  77. Every time she says “us,” it’s like, “Who’s ‘us’? Millionaire Oscar winners? Millionaire Oscar hosts?

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  78. Are you saying that because she has money she has no business speaking about those not of her class?

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  79. #56 – Drumwaster

    They apparently can’t find ONE to run for President. (I mean, seriously, Barack is the best you have?)

    – Well, as I noted, Barack is the only black Senator, and Representatives never get elected president.

    And are those your only choices? Professional politicians? Why not any of the CEOs who have shown that they know how to run a business? Economists who know how to most efficiently run an economy? Teachers, Craftsmen, Soldiers, hell I’ve known Boy Scout Troop leaders who have more executive experience than Barry.

    I think that anyone who actively seeks the post should be forever barred from the office.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  80. #80

    Hey, Michael Vick knows how to run a business. You mean like that ?

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  81. I’m not trying to advocate that candidates for President be based only on their skin color – unlike some I could mention – but if you had to choose a black individual, why not a woman (daughter of sharecroppers, single mom working her way through law school, now a Justice on the DC Court of Appeals)? If you had to choose a black man, is he really the best the ethnicity has to offer the world?

    That having been said, I’d take Michael Jordan over Michael Vick. So would many people living in Chicago.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  82. #17, 21

    Dana, I missed that part. You emailed ABC about the lopsided panel… excellent.

    That is because the only way to understand Whoopi and Sherry’s line of thinking is to agree with it. If you don’t agree, you don’t understand. If you agree, then you can join their club.

    That’s why I don’t watch the View. The bias and the brand just don’t reel me in. Whoopi is okay, I guess. She’s pro Second Amendment which is a big improvement over the last one. (Queen of poetry, i am angri, luv ro)

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  83. ^ Agreed. Michael Jordan. AND Magic Johnson. Business leaders.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  84. #40 madmax,

    thanks, but urkel originated someplace else. I did later see Obama complaining that he looked like urkel riding his photo-op bike.

    Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t know Urkel even had a sense of humor… so far you’ve provided the only example.

    You guys are funny and crude with your pancake jokes.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  85. Vermont Neighbor, I don’t normally watch it but periodically check in to see if the image of women presented to the world by ABC has improved. Sadly, no.

    The last time I popped in, happened to be the day Michelle Obama was on. Other than her dress being one heckuva terrific fit on her, the rest of the show was one of the most embarrassing collective suck-ups I’ve ever witnessed.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  86. Either of them would be better than Barack “Community Organizer/Slumlord” Obama…

    You can pick 100 people at random and find at least half who have a better grasp on the issues than Barry.

    I’ve known kindergarten students with more intellectual honesty and seen mannequins with more integrity.

    Even Jerry Wright nailed him with the comment, “he’ll say what he has to to get elected.”

    Seriously, I don’t decide who should be President based on skin color, but is he really the best example that can be provided?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  87. #14

    David, I enjoyed your article in the Weekly. It’s a different tone than the sparring that goes on here, of course. But I think I got the point as to why O and Halle Berry choose the minority side of their heritage. Even when, in both cases, the love and nurturing didn’t come from the parent they happen to ID with.

    I haven’t thought about Sabu in ages.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  88. Dana, yeah I’m glad you spot-check the View. It’s a dirty job and someone’s gotta do it. I can only imagine the lovefest that happened with Lady O. I bet they put her coffee mug in the ABC awards window just for visitors to ogle over.

    A horrible potential First Lady. Actually gives angry women a bad name. Racist to the core.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  89. her coffee mug

    I meant the one she drank from. Not her face.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  90. You don’t choose it, Vermont Neighbor — it chooses you.

    Thanks for the kind words.And here’s something that should interest you.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  91. #80 – Drumwaster

    And are those your only choices? Professional politicians?

    — Hey, I was just going by history. Every man person who has been elected President, as well as those who inherited the presidency after the President died, had either: served in Congress, been a state governor, or, been a commanding general in time of war; several of them held high cabinet posts; many of them had two or three of those positions (i.e. Senator, Governor, & Secretary of State) on their resume.

    I mean, you can hope for some outsider, a Steve Forbes (who couldn’t make it out of the primaries), a Mike Bloomberg (who, even with all of his money, felt the need to become Mayor of New York), a Ross Perot (who graduated from the Naval Academy, worked for the Texas governor as a civilian, and received enough votes to disrupt the election but not enough to win a single electoral vote). It is the way that it is.

    And yes, Obama seems to be the best possible black candidate at this time. Michael Steele hasn’t been able to break through yet.

    Icy Truth (572ed3)

  92. What’s up with that ‘strike through’ function not working?

    Icy Truth (572ed3)

  93. Are you saying that because she has money she has no business speaking about those not of her class?

    No, I’m saying that when she refers to “us,” she’s talking about a group of people of which she is no longer a part. But then, you knew that.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  94. P.S.

    Meanwhile to return to the topic at hand it is my sincere wish that the “N-word” be retired from usage by all, regardless of race.

    I agree with this, and incidentally, so does Hasselbeck. That’s the exact point she kept trying to make, in her uniquely witless way.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  95. I would agree, too, if that weren’t pre-emptive censorship based on one subgroup’s “feelings”. Burning Mark Twain books will be the next step.

    But if it is claimed to be appropriate for one ethnicity to use it (as it has been every time this subject arises), it should then be appropriate for all ethnicities to use it. Anything less is racism in its most explicit form – treating people differently based on their skin color.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  96. This was an interesting bit from HuffPo:

    “Whoopi, who earlier in the broadcast had used the n-word repeatedly, sending the censors into overload, argued that the word is only as powerful as a society allows it to be and advocated for using the word to give it new meaning.”

    Wouldn’t society include both blacks and whites?

    A commenter said:

    “I am reminded of an incident at work when there was a Black History Week display at work, where several employees brought in their collection of ‘mammy’ cookie jars and the like. I asked them why, and isn’t that insulting etc. and their reply was ‘but we can make it our own, we control it, it’s ours, our history etc.‘”

    Its just very inconsistent.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  97. “No, I’m saying that when she refers to “us,” she’s talking about a group of people of which she is no longer a part. But then, you knew that.”

    You mean money is melanin-remover? Fascinating!

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  98. It reminds me of the Cornel West book and the very use of the word; in rare occasions when it’s not attached to a speaker. There’s virtually no way to present it without its origin. Either Whoopi said it, Cornel wrote it, Eminem sang it or Spike Lee is pimping it.

    Whoopi isn’t a full- on flake like a lot of the mouthpieces. It’s true we’ve become indifferent to sex & violence through conditioning. It just hasn’t worked in this one area. I think its value as a political tool is just too important to too many people. And face it. People don’t want harmony. They want control (/power).

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  99. #14 David,

    I have to amend my post, re minority thinking and Obama. From reading your article, I understand how people are affected or burdened by the internal balance… Not Obama. Obama has proven to be a poseur over and over. He’s as calculating as any politician with credentials and experience. We’re currently being flogged by someone who’s gaming the system; he could not do it on his own.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  100. Well true, Vermont Neighber. He’s a politician — like a whole mess of other politicians, regardless of party affiliation. If he becomes POTUS it won’t eradicate the history of racism in this coutnry, or bring it to an end, any more that Condi Rice’s ascendancy to Secretary of State did.

    I’m not sure what the “could not do it on his own” line means. What politician has ever gotten anywhere “on his own”?

    Individuals in history reflect aspects of the groupings to which they belong. They don’t ultimately control them. That’s a far more complex process. A President Obama might help the racial situation in this country. But he’s more likely to be superfluous to it.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  101. Perhaps you are unaware of Whoopie Goldberg’s history. She was actually born sometime during our mid-eighteenth century, and is an el-Aurian. She was present on earth, in San Francisco, at least as early as 1893, where she somehow, despite an appearance that made her look like a black woman, she was a close friend of the author Samuel Clemens (more popularly known as Mark Twain) and was apparently accepted unquestioningly into San Francisco’s society scene at the time. Her perspectives, therefore, are rather different from our own.

    Dana R Pico (556f76)

  102. ^ Thank you for clearing that up. I can picture Whoopi and the newspaperman hanging around together. Did he base the character of– nevermind.

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  103. If he becomes POTUS it won’t eradicate the history of racism in this country, or bring it to an end, any more that Condi Rice’s ascendancy to Secretary of State did.</

    There’s a certain point at which you have to admit that Condi and Barry and Oprah are the post-racism icons. To embrace racism without the results of its progress is to embrace more than history; it’s hanging on to victim status.

    And without political ties or family connections, how did BHO get to where he is today? Clearly it wasn’t because of remarkable accomplishments in his current field. Not to sound crisp but he’s an educated productive American. There’s no evidence he’s done anything but organize poverty groups and work at a law firm. His radical core attracts liberals, repels conservatives.

    The whole Chicago mob behind him is something I don’t want this country to encourage. Should this man make it to the Oval Office many, many favors will be owed.

    The latest is he plans on staying 8-10 years to work with world leaders.

    I don’t even get to vote the dictator in first ?

    Vermont Neighbor (31ccb6)

  104. You mean money is melanin-remover?

    You mean melanin is a money-remover? Doesn’t seem to have held her back.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  105. Are you really going to pretend you don’t understand my point, Ehrenstein? What am I saying, of course you are. That’s what you do.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)

  106. You have no idea what I do, Treacher. None whatsoever.

    David Ehrenstein (85f463)

  107. David Ehrenstein wrote: 1941 is what the French would call a film maudit. Completely insane but amazingly directed. Go rent the DVD and watch it on a decent-sized screen. As pieces of direction the dogfight over Hollywood boulevard and the dance sequences are truly somethign else as is the performance of the late, great and much-missed Wendy Jo Sperber.

    Well! How about that, Dave — something we can agree about! 😀

    From my blog, November 30, 2005: Ode to Wendie Jo, Funny Lady

    L.N. Smithee (0931d2)

  108. You have no idea what I do, Treacher.

    So that’s a yes.

    Jim Treacher (592cb4)


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