Patterico's Pontifications

7/15/2008

Public Divided on Iraq Withdrawal

Filed under: 2008 Election,General — Patterico @ 6:32 am



The Washington Post reports:

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds the country split down the middle between those backing Sen. Barack Obama’s 16-month timeline for withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq and those agreeing with Sen. John McCain’s position that events, not timetables, should dictate when forces come home.

72% say McCain would be a good commander-in-chief. Only 48% say Obama would.

I think I’m starting to see why Obama is avoiding the military. I couldn’t figure it out before, but it’s starting to make sense.

Meanwhile, John Hinderaker attacks Obama’s op-ed on his plan for Iraq, and pulls out some choice Obama quotes from the past, like this one:

I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse.

It’s obviously too early to say what the final result will be in Iraq. But Obama’s judgment was clearly wrong that the surge would inflame sectarian violence and make the situation worse — at least in the near term.

Obama is going to be facing the military in Iraq, though not with John McCain at his side. Ed Morrissey reports that, in preparation, the Obama camp is scrubbing criticism of the surge from Obama’s site.

72 Responses to “Public Divided on Iraq Withdrawal”

  1. There is so much to attack with the plan I don’t know where to start. Frankly, you start with the fact that he forumulated it before meeting one commander or general on the ground in Iraq. How do you make such a monumental decision without speaking to them first?

    The biggest flaw that no one is talking about is that he is essentially saying we should revert back to the Rumsfeld strategy. His residual force will have a mission almost exactly like the mission they had when Rumsfeld was in charge. Here is my analysis of his plan.

    Michael Volpe (c55984)

  2. Powerline blog has article today about Obama’s “Ministry of Truth” scrubbing the Obama website over the weekend to remove Urkel’s negative spin about the future of the surge. Change for sure!

    madmax333 (965af6)

  3. Flipper goes for the record, apparently – “The Iraq Surge is not The Surge I thought it was.”

    Dmac (416471)

  4. What is mindboggling is that from reading Hindraker’s analysis, Obama is more than willing to continue ignoring hard facts, lie, and distort in order to keep his narrative alive.

    If he becomes POTUS, he will dovetail beautifully with the United Nations.

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  5. “Don’t tell me my words mean anything.”

    Barack H. Obama
    July 15, 2008

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  6. How do you make such a monumental decision without speaking to them first?

    Because when you’re “The One We’ve Been Waiting For,” you can’t be bothered with such inconsequential things as condescending to talk with people who actually know what the f*** is going on.

    MarkJ (42fe5b)

  7. the Obama camp is scrubbing criticism of the surge from Obama’s site.

    And, according to Instapundit, Google doesn’t cache Obama’s site. I guess it isn’t important enough or something.

    I think I’m starting to see why Obama is avoiding the military.

    Hey, I’m sure they’d let him ride around in a tank or let Michelle pose with an AK-47. What’s the worry?

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  8. What is Baracky’s position today? Oops, just changed. Changed again. There it goes again. Straight down the memory hole with that one.

    JD (75f5c3)

  9. The surge worked. The goods guys-US, ISF, Sons of Iraq-took out the bulk of AQI. Then Maliki went after JAM on his own; when it got dicey we backed him up and ensured that BAsra was liberated. Then Iraqi lead actions in Sadr City and Mosul broke the enemies’ backs. Mop up operations continue, but US, ISF, and Iraqi civilian casualties may all set new lows this month.

    And Michael #1-I completely agree that Obama’s stated strategy is a clone of Rumsfeld’s. It was the wrong strategy in 2006 and 2007. IRonically, it might be the right strategy in 2009 because it assumes a level of competence that the ISF may reach by then (but certainly did not have in 2006, 2007, or the first half of 2008.)

    This is the way the Iraq War ends-not with a bang but a whimper.

    MartyH (52fae7)

  10. So what is the vested interest that own the Democrats vis a vis opposition to a strong military and taking the fight over there to the islamomutants? The far left loons or the vast majority of liberals?

    Powerline talks about how the party of the left is all tied up catering to various special interests, such as envionmental wackos ebeing againsts energy exploration and exploitation here.
    Would it matter if dems in Congress voted for drilling, for example, since the lefty loons won’t be voting for McCain in any case OR would it mean fewer donated dirty dollars in the pockets of Congressmen and under the table agreements?
    I know liberals who think nothing of trading on insider bank info while all the time bitching endlessly about Bush and Cheney cohorts getting richer from the war, high oil prices, etc. In fact, one limo lib I know brags about how his dad bribed both political parties forty years ago to amass a sizable sum. Of course he and his brothers were convicted of robbing state of Pa. for $4 mil, but received a slap on the wrist. And yes, I know GOP does it too, but people like William Jefferson and Murtha manage to survive any scandals.

    madmax333 (613e63)

  11. It’s obviously too early to say what the final result will be in Iraq.

    I disagree. I predict that the final result will be that America earns no return on its massive investment.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  12. I disagree. I predict that the final result will be that America earns no return on its massive investment.

    Ah, so predict that we’ll abandon Iraq, then? Or is that just your fondest desire taking the shape of a prediction?

    Pablo (99243e)

  13. Ah, so predict that we’ll abandon Iraq, then? Or is that just your fondest desire taking the shape of a prediction?

    It really is a good plan. Bush keeps us in Iraq until he’s out of office, then he can blame the ultimate failure of the mission, and it will certainly be a failure, on whichever President succeeded him. Then ex-President Bush, you know, on his speaking tours, can go around saying he had that shit all figured it out, everything was going according to plan, and that the 44th (or 45th? 46th?) President blew it.

    You dumbasses will probably fall for that shit, too.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  14. Bush keeps us in Iraq until he’s out of office, then he can blame the ultimate failure of the mission, and it will certainly be a failure, on whichever President succeeded him.

    Funny, but that’s not Obama’s shiny, hopey new vision. He’s been into that Change You Can Believe In.

    See, the surge worked and anyone who is capable of seeing can see it, Obama included. I realize that you are not among that group.

    Pablo (99243e)

  15. See, the surge worked and anyone who is capable of seeing can see it, Obama included. I realize that you are not among that group.

    It’s polish on a turd. And still, it’s not even as calm as it was when Saddam was in charge. Five years, thousands dead, billions wasted, and we can’t even do the job Saddam did. The New American Way. Thank you, George Bush.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  16. And still, it’s not even as calm as it was when Saddam was in charge.

    Define calm. Does it look like this?

    Pablo (99243e)

  17. And still, it’s not even as calm as it was when Saddam was in charge

    By this logic, the US should only support dictatorships around the world. After all they’ll contribute to the stability you seek. For that matter, we should elect a dictator here – keep everything calm, and devoid of those elements that would advocate chaos. Given your opinions of GWB, you should be hailing his “usurpation” of power, and demand he seize more to straighten everything out and impose “calm”

    Horatio (a549f7)

  18. Now Levi is applauding mass murderers for “keeping the peace”.

    You really are slime, Levi. What next? A paen to Stalin? Kept those Ukrainians and Chechnyans in line didn’t he?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  19. 15, Levi, thank you for proving that I’ve been right for years in that you Libs will support a mass murderer in any country so long as YOU aren’t the ones murdered.

    PCD (5c49b0)

  20. RE Google and cacheing Obama’s site:

    My understanding of Google’s policy is that they will stop cacheing a site if requested to not do so by he site’s owner. This happens a lot with site’s that have copyrighted material.

    If the Obama campaign has made such a request, that would be a big story.

    WLS (02df99)

  21. Madmax asked, “So what is the vested interest that own the Democrats vis a vis opposition to a strong military and taking the fight over there to the islamomutants?”

    I think the vested interest is their adherence to the Marxist philosophy they developed during the Vietnam War. If the United States can be “militarily” defeated, then we would not use that strategy in the future to fend off aggression. Hence, Democrats have a vested interest in U.S. defeat. Defeat, or surrender, energizes the extremist Left, permits them to divert economic resources to welfare plans that were created to buy votes from dependent-classes, and gives them “talking points” with which to oppose keeping our military supplied with modern weapons. At their core, liberals really don’t believe that anything can or will happen to them as a result of their short-sightedness. Thus, they don’t want to pay for the military, which is comprised these days of people whom the liberals are much more inclined to sneer at because servicemembers tend to reflect a population of people who have values and believe in them. Worse yet, servicemembers are willing to put their own lives at risk for the defense of those values. Liberals merely congratulate themselves for marching in protests and vandalizing recruiting centers.

    509th Bob (e73ed2)

  22. Levi is in a race to surrender before Baracky and France.

    JD (75f5c3)

  23. …it’s not even as calm as it was when Saddam was in charge.

    The rally cry of dictators for 5,000 years. – we provide calm.

    Perfect Sense (23c691)

  24. They make the buses and trains run on time too.

    JD (75f5c3)

  25. hmmm..

    TLove (b8e7b4)

  26. I think dictators like hot lawyers that like to role play. Just sayin’ 😉

    JD (75f5c3)

  27. Levi never fails to demonstrate Stalin’s term for the secret column of dissent in this country -“useful idiots,” indeed. Since Levi will probably express complete ignorance on the reference, I suggest he look up Walter Duranty’s whitewashing of Stalin’s mass executions during his career at the NYT.

    Dmac (416471)

  28. Two reliable New Media sources for information on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are Bill Roggio/The Long War Journal and Michael Yon’s blog.

    From Yon’s post yesterday on Iraq:

    The war continues to abate in Iraq. Violence is still present, but, of course, Iraq was a relatively violent place long before Coalition forces moved in. I would go so far as to say that barring any major and unexpected developments, … a fair-minded person could say with reasonable certainty that the war has ended… What’s left is messy politics that likely will be punctuated by low-level violence and the occasional spectacular attack… But by my estimation, the Iraq War is over. We won. Which means the Iraqi people won.

    I wish I could say the same for Afghanistan. But that war we clearly are losing…

    Both sites have histories of presenting detailed accounts weeks before they appear in mainstream outlets.

    AMac (c822c9)

  29. #21-
    509th Bob,
    That makes certainly makes sense, but we still hear that Obama is not like his friends Wright, Ayers, Dohrn et al and truly loves his country. IMO his quest is for power and control and ability to push that neo-Marxist message. Still, one wonders how truly blind these cretins are not to recognize the lessons of history.
    Recently read a timeline about how democracies eventually fall back into dictatorships. You get enough people living off the public teat and then its all about complacency and more freebies. Anyway we are rapidly approaching some sort of crisis point and legalization of illegal immmigrants would help provide the tipping point. One opinion is we could fall into complete chaos in five years. Perhaps that would usher in the anti-Christ. Oh, another essay pointed out how Muslims are ok in certain low percentages of the population and become more unsettled with the status quo, pushing for sharia. You look at places like UK, FRance and what problems they have versus countries with substantially all Muslims and the mullahs running amok. You see some of the Christian church leadership are ok with sharia law governing Muslims in England, for example. And plenty of PC even here such as allowing separate facilities in public buildings for foot washing, prayer rooms, segregated gym and pools, etc.
    Wonder how Levi and friends would take to being enslaved dhimmis and obeying sharia laws. His free speech rights might well be sharply abridged. If he’s attractive enough, perhaps his butt would be desired fodder for some Arafat lookalike? Imagine going from analysis of the evil Bush regime to being anal-ized by mohammed’s minions. Praise allah…pass the loot and pork the levis.jajajaja

    madmax333 (e17a7a)

  30. But by my estimation, the Iraq War is over. We won. Which means the Iraqi people won.

    Winners typically win something. I’d really like for this idiot to explain what we’ve won. Republicans seem to always sidestep that bit.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  31. Levi, winners typically win something? Gee, you really are as completely clueless in history as I’ve said.

    Evidently your knowledge of history begins from when you were potty trained i.e., 1993

    SPQR (26be8b)

  32. Levi, winners typically win something? Gee, you really are as completely clueless in history as I’ve said.

    Evidently your knowledge of history begins from when you were potty trained i.e., 1993

    Yes, I heard you say that not 5 minutes ago! Way to keep it fresh.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  33. Lets see — we have an emerging democracy governing a pluralistic society of about 25 million people in the heart of the Muslim world –so called “cradle of civilization.”

    Six years ago there was a despot who had started two wars with his neighbors, and who for 4 decades kept the majority of the population living in squalid conditions while spending hundreds of millions of dollars of the countries income from its oil exports on building lavish palaces for himself and his Baath party loyalists.

    Remember the Marsh Arabs? Go back and Google their history and then look at what Saddam did to them over his final decade in power.

    WLS (68fd1f)

  34. Winners typically win something. I’d really like for this idiot to explain what we’ve won.

    We won against the Baathests
    We won against Al Queda
    We won against the Sunnis
    We won against the Iranian Shiites.

    Oh yes… and we won against the New York Times and Democrat party who said it couldn’t be done.

    Perfect Sense (23c691)

  35. Lets see — we have an emerging democracy governing a pluralistic society of about 25 million people in the heart of the Muslim world –so called “cradle of civilization.”

    ‘Emerging.’ A really nice way of saying ‘Well, this hasn’t happened yet, but we all really hope it does!’

    Six years ago there was a despot who had started two wars with his neighbors, and who for 4 decades kept the majority of the population living in squalid conditions while spending hundreds of millions of dollars of the countries income from its oil exports on building lavish palaces for himself and his Baath party loyalists.

    And since then, an American invasion has triggered a holy war, ethnic cleansing, and daily car bombings. You know what’s worse than living in squalid conditions? Living in squalid conditions under the constant, pervasive threat of random gunfire from American invaders or random bombings from asshole terrorists, whom the leader of said American invaders implored to ‘Bring it on.’

    And lest we forget, we were supposed to be in Iraq for ourselves, to defend our country, to protect us, first. Get real. You don’t care about liberating the Iraqis beyond that being a useful fallback objective after all of your initial justifications proved to be not credible.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  36. Levi, there was ethnic cleansing in Saddam’s time. You really are completely freakin’ ignorant.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  37. Way to disparage the cumrags, Levi. Our proud men and women do not go around randomly killing innocent civilians, except in your fevered mind.

    Just JD (5f0e11)

  38. Levi, there was ethnic cleansing in Saddam’s time. You really are completely freakin’ ignorant.

    I know there was. I never said there wasn’t.

    And when George Bush invaded Iraq, there was more ethnic cleansing, wasn’t there?

    Levi (74ca1f)

  39. Constant and pervasive threat of random gunfire from American invaders.

    you are a disgusting lying asshat. You have proven yourself to be unworthy of even the tiniest bit of respect. You are a festering fistula on the asshole of humanity.

    Just JD (5f0e11)

  40. Levi, no there wasn’t more. There was retaliatory violence by the victims of Sunni oppression against the Sunni. That’s more of your utter ignorance.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  41. Levi, no there wasn’t more. There was retaliatory violence by the victims of Sunni oppression against the Sunni. That’s more of your utter ignorance.

    Semantic bullshit. You’re a tool buddy.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  42. Levi, a tool is useful, you are not.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  43. Levi #30:

    Winners typically win something. I’d really like for this idiot to explain what we’ve won. Republicans seem to always sidestep that bit.

    Levi,

    I don’t know if “this idiot” refers to me (who contributed #28), or to Michael Yon (who I quoted). If you’d meant “both”, you’d have used the plural these, no?

    At any rate, Yon’s answer can be found at his blog (he’s also written a book on the subject). Since 2003, he’s spent much time in Iraq and Afghanistan, embedded with various U.S., British, Iraqi, Australian, and Afghani units. He’s also traveled independently in these and neighboring countries.

    You might try following links first, casting stones second.

    If I am the idiot you meant: well, that would be ad hominem, and I decline to respond.

    By the way, I am not now, nor have ever been, a Republican.

    AMac (c822c9)

  44. I think it’s time to ignore Mr. Non Sequitur. He is a theologian, and theology depends upon faith, not reason. He simply believes what he believes, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. He genuflects before his spiritual leader, the Obamessiah (“Barack Obama (PBUH) is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life”) who will solve all our national ills, as well as heal the sick and infirm, conquer poverty, usher in an era of whirled peas and bull markets, and ascend to the head of the world governing body which he so clearly desires.

    I only have one question – will Obama-wan (“Help me Obama-wan. You’re my only hope.”) ride around town in a clear Obamamobile?

    Horatio (a549f7)

  45. I don’t know if “this idiot” refers to me (who contributed #28), or to Michael Yon (who I quoted). If you’d meant “both”, you’d have used the plural these, no?

    Yon.

    At any rate, Yon’s answer can be found at his blog (he’s also written a book on the subject). Since 2003, he’s spent much time in Iraq and Afghanistan, embedded with various U.S., British, Iraqi, Australian, and Afghani units. He’s also traveled independently in these and neighboring countries.

    You might try following links first, casting stones second.

    I know all about Micheal Yon, and yeah, he’s an idiot. The left has there stable of war reporters that have been in Iraq from the beginning, too.

    By the way, I am not now, nor have ever been, a Republican.

    Bush voter? War supporter?

    Levi (74ca1f)

  46. “And when George Bush invaded Iraq,”

    W went in all by himself heh

    Lord Nazh (899dce)

  47. I think it’s time to ignore Mr. Non Sequitur.

    Why am I not surprised? The first time you and I have ever communicated you try to play some stupid little game about how old you and your wife are, and that means I should just, what exactly? Mindlessly agree with you?

    That doesn’t work, so it’s time to go back to pretending like I don’t exist, huh? Are your daughters Republicans, by the way?

    He is a theologian, and theology depends upon faith, not reason. He simply believes what he believes, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

    Lol, what the hell are you talking about?

    He genuflects before his spiritual leader, the Obamessiah (”Barack Obama (PBUH) is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life”) who will solve all our national ills, as well as heal the sick and infirm, conquer poverty, usher in an era of whirled peas and bull markets, and ascend to the head of the world governing body which he so clearly desires.

    I only have one question – will Obama-wan (”Help me Obama-wan. You’re my only hope.”) ride around town in a clear Obamamobile?

    Obama lost my vote last week. And it didn’t take a flag pin or his wife or his preacher to do it, I judged him on his job performance. Can’t really beat me over the head with that.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  48. “I know there was. I never said there wasn’t.”

    Levi’s favorite response when his ignorance is exposed.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  49. “The left has there stable of war reporters that have been in Iraq from the beginning, too.”

    List them Levi

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  50. Levi’s favorite response when his ignorance is exposed.

    Okay buddy. Kindly point me to the post where I said that there was no ethnic cleansing under Saddam.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  51. Why am I not surprised? The first time you and I have ever communicated you try to play some stupid little game about how old you and your wife are, and that means I should just, what exactly? Mindlessly agree with you?

    For the umpteeth time – a commenter asked you to provide some info. You balked and invited him to go first. I went first instead as a methodology of providing some profile info behind those who comment at this blog. I don’t ask that you agree with anything or anyone.

    That doesn’t work, so it’s time to go back to pretending like I don’t exist, huh? Are your daughters Republicans, by the way?

    You make an assumption -that I am a Republican. I happen to be a registered independent, as are my daughters. The older ones dislikes both Obama and McCain. Don’t know where the younger one stands. She is philosophically libertarian.

    Lol, what the hell are you talking about?

    You have your beliefs which don’t appear to be subject to reconsideration if you learn something that contradicts what you believe.

    Obama lost my vote last week. And it didn’t take a flag pin or his wife or his preacher to do it, I judged him on his job performance. Can’t really beat me over the head with that.

    Now I’ve learned something. I will take you on face value. You’ve come across like an “BOcolyte”. Do you support anyone for President or are you sitting out that particular race?

    Horatio (a549f7)

  52. “And still, it’s not even as calm as it was when Saddam was in charge. Five years, thousands dead, billions wasted, and we can’t even do the job Saddam did.”

    “since then, an American invasion has triggered a holy war, ethnic cleansing, and daily car bombings.

    Oh, and Levi, while you were accusing me of attacking the troops, the slime bag that is you wrote: “the constant, pervasive threat of random gunfire from American invaders”

    You are slime, Levi, pure slime.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  53. #31 SPQR,

    With respect SPQR, I must disagree with your comment:

    Evidently your knowledge of history begins from when you were potty trained i.e., 1993

    With all the feces that Levi throws around here, I see no evidence that Levi is potty trained!

    Kenny (76922b)

  54. Levi #45

    Bush voter?

    Once.

    War supporter?

    Yes, a la Threatening Storm. I think Pollack’s 2002 depiction of the lousy set of alternatives holds up pretty well. Like him, I was dismayed at the fairy-tale thinking and poor policy planning and execution that, we now know, underlay the decision to go to war. In retrospect, were I President, I would have chosen one of the other bad alternatives, even knowing that my committed enemies would excoriate me for their bad consequences. Not that this matters so much, as far as figuring out the status of US forces in Iraq right now and for the future.

    AMac (c822c9)

  55. Point taken, Kenny.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  56. It appears that Levi was scared that Peter, Bigislander, David Petranos Esp, or MKDP was going to take his crown of asshat extraordinaire. What would your Dad think of the way you denigrate the troops, Levi?

    JD (5f0e11)

  57. #56 you omitted Jharp. I guess too many Indianans around him are living poor and voting rich.
    Wonder how many trolls are sock puppets and share same IP address or which one really is the most clueless?

    Regardless of what Bush did the left would find fault. They claim Afghanistan has been neglected and Osama should have been captured, but is there any doubt that if things were the reverse they’d day Iraq was neglected?

    IMO defeatists such as Murtha, Reid and Obama are truly beyond redemption and deserve approbation. Why the far left wields so much power is beyond me. Do they really bring in that much dough?

    madmax333 (e17a7a)

  58. here’s a page you should be reading. It’s a Milblog so that should get you all hard.

    As a commenter there says
    “Yep, a quick check of Obama’s website shows that only 52 pages on it mention the surge, and none of them appear to be complementary. But I guess that counts as a scrub.”

    JAR (9c32c0)

  59. Just because Baracky arouses you, JAR, do not project your fantasies onto us.

    JD (5f0e11)

  60. #58 pity gateway pundit has before and after screen shots of the scrub-a-dub.

    and your bozo poster doesn’t know the difference between complementary and complimentary.

    madmax333 (e17a7a)

  61. “I know all about Micheal Yon, and yeah, he’s an idiot. The left has there stable of war reporters that have been in Iraq from the beginning, too.”

    Have you actually read Yon’s work? Or is just a uninformed knee-jerk reaction?

    http://michaelyon-online.com/

    When an embedded journalist like Yon has earned the respect of seasoned war correspondent Joe Galloway, and current journos like Brian Williams and Micheal Barone, then surely he brings something substantial to the table, no?

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  62. btw, would you please provide links to the left’s stable of war reporters?

    Dana (f3e2a8)

  63. Why even bother to ask? The troll only knows conjecture and filth, and nothing about actual objective sourcing for statements of opinion, not fact.

    Dmac (416471)

  64. I’m starting to think that the word “idiot” does not mean what Levi thinks it means.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  65. Levi: ‘ “Idiot” is not the “Idiot” I thought I knew.” ‘

    Dmac (416471)

  66. I finally got around to reading his policy, printed in Tuesdays newspaper. Wow, Obama’s proposed Iraq policy truly is an inane mess. Can he really be that stupid?

    I find it much more credible that his mushy policy is actually designed to provide political cover in his race for President. In that sense the statement is a masterpiece of mush, allowing voters and pundits to read whatever they want into what Obama said, and plausible deniability to do whatever Obama wants should he actually be in a position to set policy.

    Brad (05dfaa)

  67. Feeding trolls is an exercise in futility

    Mike K (2cf494)

  68. “Have you actually read Yon’s work? Or is just a uninformed knee-jerk reaction?”

    Levi doesn’t have to read Yon’s work to know Yon’s work!

    Lord Nazh (899dce)

  69. For the umpteeth time – a commenter asked you to provide some info. You balked and invited him to go first. I went first instead as a methodology of providing some profile info behind those who comment at this blog. I don’t ask that you agree with anything or anyone.

    And for the umpteenth time, that shit is meaningless. I don’t need ‘profile info’ on any of you, and you shouldn’t need any about me, but again, this is how Republicans operate. On ‘character issues.’ You make more money, my girlfriend is younger than your wife, what do those things have to do with a political discussion?

    What’s more, it just isn’t smart to give out too much personal information on the internet. You guys know I live in Montana, that I’m in college, and my dad’s in the military. That’s enough.

    You make an assumption -that I am a Republican. I happen to be a registered independent, as are my daughters. The older ones dislikes both Obama and McCain. Don’t know where the younger one stands. She is philosophically libertarian.

    Independents are cop-outs. You’re a liberal or a conservative.

    You sure argue, if we could even call this an argument, like a Republican though.

    You have your beliefs which don’t appear to be subject to reconsideration if you learn something that contradicts what you believe.

    And that is based on…. what exactly? I deal with a large number of people around here, but I’m pretty sure that I’ve never said more than two words to you.

    I mean really. There’s nothing a right-wing blog can ‘teach’ me. I’ve been posting here for 4 or 5 months, and I’ve probably consumed more conservative media on-line and on television than you have. It’s all a joke.

    Now I’ve learned something. I will take you on face value. You’ve come across like an “BOcolyte”. Do you support anyone for President or are you sitting out that particular race?

    I was a ‘BOcolyte’ as recently as a few weeks ago, then he betrayed his liberal and progressive base on the FISA issue, which in my view is unforgivable. I’m not voting for him anymore. And I made that decision without getting all hysterical about his preacher or his wife or his flag pins or because he knows what arugula is.

    I’m just not going to vote for anybody. This country deserves these assholes.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  70. When an embedded journalist like Yon has earned the respect of seasoned war correspondent Joe Galloway, and current journos like Brian Williams and Micheal Barone, then surely he brings something substantial to the table, no?

    I don’t know much of anything about Joe Galloway, but Brian Williams and Micheal Barone are both deuchebags. Especially Williams. If you earn that guy’s respect, you’re definitely doing something wrong.

    On the left, Richard Engel has been in Iraq since the beginning.

    Levi (74ca1f)

  71. Levi, you don’t know anything about Joe Galloway? Once again, you attempt to turn your ignorance into an argument.

    Astonishing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  72. #70 Thank you for the link.

    I’m sorry you don’t know about Joe Galloway. He is a noted combat correspondents in the ranks of Ernie Pyle…and Micheal Yon. Joe Galloway also co-authored with Lt Gen. Hal More, We Were Soldiers, which was about the Battle of la Drang, 1965, and later made into a very strong film starring Mel Gibson. At the least, rent it.

    I only threw in Brian Williams in the mix in order to be politically inclusive…he’s a well known left leaner… but bethat as it may, he is still an experienced and professional journalist.

    Dana (f3e2a8)


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