Patterico's Pontifications

7/6/2008

More Obama Abortion Flip-Flopping

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:08 am



Jan Crawford Greenburg recently quoted Obama as saying:

Now, I don’t think that ‘mental distress’ qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term.

(My emphasis.)

According to Greenburg, Obama now “clarifies” that “serious physical issue” can include, uh, “mental issues”:

My only point is that in an area like partial birth abortion having a mental, having a health exception can be defined rigorously . . . It can be defined through physical health. It can be defined by serious clinical mental health diseases.

Greenburg notes that this still goes beyond the current state of the law, which doesn’t require women to show they are affected by serious clinical mental heath diseases.

The Court has said the Constitution prohibits states from banning post-viability abortions unless those laws contain a broad mental health exception—one that includes mental distress and severe emotional harm. Abortion rights groups have fought for decades to preserve these exceptions, and I’m awfully curious what they will think about limiting them to women with mental disease or mental illness.

I hope she’s also curious to press Obama to answer all of her questions. She had said she would ask Obama if he still supports the Freedom of Choice Act, which doesn’t limit the mental health exception as rigorously as Obama now claims is appropriate. She also said she would ask him whether he would “direct his Solicitor General to file a brief supporting state abortion bans that did not include a mental health exception.”

Obama’s response ducked these questions.

We’re left with yet another flip-flop — one that will probably require another flop back to the original flip.

Stay on him, Jan.

41 Responses to “More Obama Abortion Flip-Flopping”

  1. This, from the supposed expert on constitutional law?!?

    I simply cannot understand how this man graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude.

    Beldar (221b63)

  2. A pessimist skeptic would say that he graduated affirmativa actionis.

    Icy Truth (4094e8)

  3. You can bet that if one of his daughters gets “punished with a baby” inside of her, “mental distress” will qualify.

    Icy Truth (4094e8)

  4. Obama says you have to be crazy to get an abortion.

    Hazy (56a0a8)

  5. Beldar:

    I simply cannot understand how this man graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude.

    Harvard, hell. I’m not sure he would have graduated with honors from my high school, notable mostly for its fine chicken pluckers and tree fellers.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  6. What is truly breath-taking is the way the MSM is coving for this guy…….CNN is openly campaigning.

    There is nothing that he can flip on that he will be held to. Nothing.

    It’s kinda like a coronation.

    Increase Mather (c28cbb)

  7. Greenberg’s citation on the mental health exception does appear to go beyond “mental distress” alone:

    As an Ohio-based federal appeals court recently put it, “States must provide a maternal health exception to an abortion ban that encompasses situations where a woman would suffer severe mental or emotional harm if she were unable to obtain an abortion.”

    Abortion rights groups won’t yank their support if Obama pushes for clarity on that point, and he knows it. Yes, he’s pandering, but he’s not fence-sitting on Roe by arguing post-viability abortions shouldn’t be allowed on a whim. Problem for the courts is “viability” is not what it was in 34 years ago.

    steve (2837ea)

  8. The MSM’s not going to call him on any of this flip – floppery; just wait for the inevitable “walk back” on immediate troop withdrawals regarding Iraq. It will all be explained away with vague notions of “nuance” and “newfound maturity,” along with “the evolution of a President.” Bring your air sickness bags, this is going to get a lot worse in the months to come.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  9. http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2008/07/john-mccain-flip-flop-flupper.html

    Then, as his(McCain) presidential campaign gained steam in 2000, he pivoted rather wildly to the center in order to appeal to his new found political base, the Beltway press corps. He moderated his positions on abortion, on taxes, on a whole host of issues. He referred to people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as “agents of intolerance.” And after he lost the nomination, during Bush’s first year in office, he openly flirted with the idea of leaving the Republican party and caucusing with the Democrats. He opposed Bush’s tax cuts on the grounds that they were reckless and unfairly skewed toward the wealthy. And as late as 2004, he is reported to have been genuinely considering an offer to become John Kerry’s running mate.

    Then, when he realized that his most likely path to the presidency was winning the Republican nomination in 2008, he began tacking wildly back to the right. He backed President Bush on just about every issue that arose during his second term. He started pulling people into his fledgling campaign that he had previously decried. He spoke at Liberty University. He became an ardent supply-sider and began criticizing those who would allow President Bush’s tax cuts to expire (even in part). He started touting his conservative voting record and backed off any number of previously reasonable positions he’d taken on issues like torture, warrantless surveillance, the estate tax, and now off-shore drilling.

    No presidential candidate in recently memory has as well-established a track record of flip-floppery as John McCain.

    jharp (00ec6a)

  10. No presidential candidate in recently memory has as well-established a track record of flip-floppery as John McCain.

    Translation: Hey, look over there!

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  11. And yet another link to a fair, objective news source. Harpy think it’s just great, of course – since it sounds exactly like his loon – faced projections.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  12. No.

    Look at the above post and read it and let in sink in at what a bunch of nonsense the right wingers are promoting as meaningful.

    We’ve got real issues that are hurting our country. War, credit crises, mortgage crisis, deficits, weak dollar.

    At the party of the biggest flip flopper in modern history calls Obama a flip flopper for one reason.

    To distract from the problems caused by the GOP and George Bush.

    jharp (00ec6a)

  13. Dmac,

    “And yet another link to a fair, objective news source. Harpy think it’s just great, of course – since it sounds exactly like his loon – faced projections.”

    Why don’t you try something new, Mr. Dmac.

    Read the substance of the post and point out where it is in error.

    McCain is the flip flopper. And you dam well know it.

    jharp (00ec6a)

  14. The mental health issue was the original device that legalized abortion in California. True health reasons for abortion are exceedingly rare but once mental health was permitted as a reason, the doors were wide open. In 1969, when I was a resident at LA County, young women who wanted an abortion had a pro forma exam by a psychiatrist, that lasted about 5 minutes, and then went to the OB admitting area for their abortions. It quickly became a mill and that was four years before Roe v Wade.

    Allowing a mental health exception is the same as no restriction. It will never be enforced. I suspect that very late term abortion has as many mental health consequences as any pre-existing condition.

    MIke K (b9ce3e)

  15. Why don’t you try something new, Mr. Dmac.

    Why don’t YOU try something new: defend your guy without bashing the other side (See? See? He does it too!)

    Read the substance of the post and point out where it is in error.

    What substance?

    You’ve pissed and moaned about virtually anything we’ve linked to as being “biased.” Don’t whine when your own dismissal rhetorical tools are turned against you.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  16. Paul,

    So I guess you have no defense of McFlippy McFlopper.

    I didn’t think so.

    jharp (00ec6a)

  17. Read the substance of the post and point out where it is in error.

    You first. Still waiting for what you think is “bullshit” in that API position paper, using your two whole years of economics classes.

    One other thing: Tu Quoque is a logical fallacy. See if you can figure out why…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  18. So I guess you have no defense of McFlippy McFlopper.

    You’re the one who is defending Obama. Why should Paul defe… oh, I get it. More ad hominems without evidence.

    Typical.

    All this time to throw around insults, and none to debate me using the same rules DRJ and Levi are using.

    Coward.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  19. I’m looking forward to the gnashing of teeth from the Obama cultists when they realize that Obama spoke of being in favor of faith-based initiatives this week.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  20. In a public hospital somewhere in Obamaland in 2009:

    Woman: I’m bipolar and I’ve got to get an abortion, now.

    Doctor: How about we take the baby by C-section and adopt it out?

    Woman: I won’t feel better until it’s dead.

    Doctor: Okay. That’s the law, I guess.

    Patricia (f56a97)

  21. All this time to throw around insults, and none to debate me using the same rules DRJ and Levi are using.

    Hell, Drumwaster, Mr. Sunny already is bordering on breaking the rules, and he’s barely started. What makes you think harpy can?

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  22. I just want the same punishment when his utter lack of good faith is finally revealed beyond any attempt at spin to modify…

    In short, if he can’t put up, he should be made to shut up.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  23. Drumwaster, I suspect that the harpster is a flea on a dog’s backside when it comes to being worth paying attention to. Just think: he gets to drink himself to stupor, post on this blog, and all sorts of intelligent people rush to answer him.

    I don’t understand that type of need for attention, but then, there are a lot of people in this world doing things I don’t understand.

    steve miller (724340)

  24. Jan Crawford Greenburg NOW is proposing Obama made “his Declaration of Independence from abortion rights groups.”

    While entitled to such hyperbole, an analyst owes readers more than this head-scratcher:

    “I’m awfully curious what they [abortion rights groups] will think about limiting them to women with mental disease or mental illness. (A good question for Monday, when we’re all back in the office.)”

    Pick up a phone. Google it. NARAL provided AP a response. Tortured though it was.

    steve (2f9a22)

  25. I suspect that the harpster is a flea on a dog’s backside when it comes to being worth paying attention to.

    Doesn’t mean the dog shouldn’t scratch in order to get rid of the flea…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  26. heh

    steve miller (724340)

  27. I’m thinking that if the harpster posts less here, the demand for his consumption of alcohol will go down.

    steve miller (724340)

  28. In law school, you get the best grades when you equivocate, hold open multiple possibilities, and refuse to take a stand. “Flip-flopping” is the hallmark of the “A” student.

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  29. In law school, you get the best grades when you equivocate, hold open multiple possibilities, and refuse to take a stand. “Flip-flopping” is the hallmark of the “A” student.

    To quote my old See-Pee-Oh, “That’s nice, kid, but this here’s the fleet.”

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  30. John McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

    This wasn’t always McCain’s position on abortion. In 1999, as he was mounting his first presidential bid, he said this: ‘Certainly in the short-term, or even the long-term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade.’ Why not? Because without Roe, he said, ‘thousands of young American women would be performing illegal and dangerous operations.’ Therefore, he said, Roe was ‘necessary.’”

    jharp (00ec6a)

  31. harpo takes another shot to the head and still comes back sucking Obama’s dick.

    Amazing.

    If Obama came out and sodomized a puppy on stage I think Harpo would still say that’s my boy and did you hear what McCain did today.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  32. Comment by MIke K — 7/6/2008 @ 9:33 am

    Exactly. And of course Doe v Bolton enshrined this “mental health” exception federally, the same year as Roe v Wade. But the pro-abortionists don’t like to talk about that.

    Allowing a mental health exception is the same as no restriction.

    Right. Which is why Sarah Weddington et al worked so hard to get it. And, as you imply in your last sentence, going through any abortion, much less this kind of one, of course is going to have mental health consequences, many of which are well documented. Post abortion relief is common (the immediate stress is gone), but months to years later, post abortion trauma is very common.

    But who cares about suicidal women, many trapped into abortions by unsupportive partners or families, when there are future “punishments” to be free to kill, and votes to get, right Senator Obama? Just plain evil.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  33. John McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned.

    Harpie. Bubeleh. Let’s try this.

    Cut and paste the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, then tell us what you think they mean.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  34. I’ll even paste them for you:

    Amendment IX: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  35. Harpster does not know the Constitution. He proved it when he was unable to answer the simple question of which house of Congress originates tax bills.

    steve miller (724340)

  36. “But who cares about suicidal women, many trapped into abortions by unsupportive partners or families, when there are future “punishments” to be free to kill, and votes to get, right Senator Obama? Just plain evil.”

    Do you recall the NY Times magazine piece by the writer about his girlfriend’s abortion ?

    We’re adults, we’ve decided. We became pregnant alone, made our decision alone and will face the aftermath alone.

    What do you mean we, white man ?

    I take our Champagne to the window and pop it; we kiss, toasting, “To us.”

    Emily has only a sip. She doesn’t want to drink while pregnant. “It’s just not something you do,” she says. Even though the pregnancy is scheduled to be terminated in two days, there’s still something — someone? — inside of her she doesn’t want to hurt. I’m utterly baffled but mask it with a respectful, if distant, “O.K.” I don’t want to ruin the mood.

    Yes, he’s sure that she is sure. Does this sound like she is an emancipated woman ? Or a woman trying to hang onto a man who doesn’t want a child?

    I’ve never felt pleasure more guiltily.

    No, I don’t sense any guilt there. The most pro-choice segment of society is male ages 18-to-35. Why do you suppose ?

    The eternal adolescent. And a big Obama supporter, I’m sure.

    Mike K (b9ce3e)

  37. There was opposition to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act because a “botched” late term abortion where the child lived instead of died was unfair to the woman who wanted a late term abortion. If the child lived and was not left to die (as was the case before the Act was finally written into law in 2005) then that would be unfair to the woman who wanted an abortion. Why, if you actually cared for the child instead of leaving him or her on a shelf to die, then the mother would actually have a child to take care of. That’s diametrically opposed to what she went in there for now isn’t it?

    She went in to kill a child and leave a dead child there, not have to take a live child home and care for him or her. What happens to choice then?/sarcasm

    She went in to abort a nearly full term, viable baby. God decided otherwise.

    kimsch (2ce939)

  38. Comment by Mike K — 7/6/2008 @ 4:21 pm

    Yes, have seen that article; very revealing of this man’s selfish attitude. IIRC Patterico linked it within a day or two of its publishing and had a thread about it.

    Ah, here it is. Glad to see the article being linked again since more people need to see this attitude being exposed.

    no one you know (1ebbb1)

  39. Do pledged Obama delegates have the obligation to switch votes at the convention if they feel that he no longer represents the sentiments of those that elected him?

    The DNC rules not only allow it, they encourage it:

    http://www.pledgednotbound.com/

    Tony Kondaks (c1fae6)

  40. In the Democratic convention, ALL delegates can switch their votes (section J I believe). They are supposed to ‘in good conscience’ vote for their pledged supporter (or some such), but there is no requirement (not even on the 1st ballot) to vote for the one that brung em

    Lord Nazh (899dce)

  41. This guy graduated from Harvard magnum cum fraude

    steve miller (724340)


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