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	<title>Comments on: DRJ and Levi Debate Obama and Wright</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: AMac</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-359205</link>
		<dc:creator>AMac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-359205</guid>
		<description>&gt; ... I don’t see the point in continuing this... thus far Levi’s responses have been limited to general assertions and few links. 

I agree.  This hasn&#039;t been an exercise that played to Levi&#039;s strengths.  He probably would have profited from a structure that kept the debate within clearly-defined bounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; &#8230; I don’t see the point in continuing this&#8230; thus far Levi’s responses have been limited to general assertions and few links. </p>
<p>I agree.  This hasn&#8217;t been an exercise that played to Levi&#8217;s strengths.  He probably would have profited from a structure that kept the debate within clearly-defined bounds.</p>
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		<title>By: DRJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-359192</link>
		<dc:creator>DRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-359192</guid>
		<description>Patterico,

I&#039;m not trying to tell you how to spend your time but I don&#039;t see the point in continuing this.  Not only will I be busy with work this week but thus far Levi&#039;s responses have been limited to general assertions and few links.  I&#039;ve said all I plan to say (by my count, I&#039;ve posted 10 substantive comments with links), so if you want this to continue, please email me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patterico,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to tell you how to spend your time but I don&#8217;t see the point in continuing this.  Not only will I be busy with work this week but thus far Levi&#8217;s responses have been limited to general assertions and few links.  I&#8217;ve said all I plan to say (by my count, I&#8217;ve posted 10 substantive comments with links), so if you want this to continue, please email me.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-359085</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-359085</guid>
		<description>For that matter, daleyrocks, blacks &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; proportionately &lt;em&gt;over&lt;/em&gt;represented in such athletic areas as track and field, basketball and gridiron.

So maybe we should have a bit of affirmative action there instead.

/some people just don&#039;t think these things through, iykwimaityd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For that matter, daleyrocks, blacks <em>are</em> proportionately <em>over</em>represented in such athletic areas as track and field, basketball and gridiron.</p>
<p>So maybe we should have a bit of affirmative action there instead.</p>
<p>/some people just don&#8217;t think these things through, iykwimaityd.</p>
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		<title>By: daleyrocks</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-358828</link>
		<dc:creator>daleyrocks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-358828</guid>
		<description>&quot;But blacks in general are still not proportionally represented in government, higher income brackets, prisons, or very much of anything else.&quot;

Levi - Although some may disagree, certifiably insane people are proportionately underrepresented on the boards of Fortune 500 companies based on my experience.  Do you believe we need the government to step in and correct that injustice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But blacks in general are still not proportionally represented in government, higher income brackets, prisons, or very much of anything else.&#8221;</p>
<p>Levi &#8211; Although some may disagree, certifiably insane people are proportionately underrepresented on the boards of Fortune 500 companies based on my experience.  Do you believe we need the government to step in and correct that injustice?</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-358817</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-358817</guid>
		<description>Guys,

I am, obviously, woefully behind in trying to update the debate page.  I&#039;ve been busy.  Just remind me.  I&#039;ll try to do it tonight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys,</p>
<p>I am, obviously, woefully behind in trying to update the debate page.  I&#8217;ve been busy.  Just remind me.  I&#8217;ll try to do it tonight.</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-358815</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-358815</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But blacks in general are still not proportionally represented in government, higher income brackets, prisons, or very much of anything else.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Who said they were &lt;i&gt;supposed&lt;/i&gt; to be proportionally represented in anything?  Blacks in general are not proportionally represented in college education, high school graduation, or countless other criteria that bear on one&#039;s ability to obtain the jobs in question, so why on earth would you expect them to be proportionally represented in the jobs themselves?  The question to ask is how likely an individual black with X qualifications is to obtain job Y, vs. how likely an individual non-black is to obtain the same job with the same qualifications.  Once you control for qualifications, blacks have the same opportunities as anyone else, if not more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But blacks in general are still not proportionally represented in government, higher income brackets, prisons, or very much of anything else.</p></blockquote>
<p>Who said they were <i>supposed</i> to be proportionally represented in anything?  Blacks in general are not proportionally represented in college education, high school graduation, or countless other criteria that bear on one&#8217;s ability to obtain the jobs in question, so why on earth would you expect them to be proportionally represented in the jobs themselves?  The question to ask is how likely an individual black with X qualifications is to obtain job Y, vs. how likely an individual non-black is to obtain the same job with the same qualifications.  Once you control for qualifications, blacks have the same opportunities as anyone else, if not more.</p>
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		<title>By: AMac</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-358727</link>
		<dc:creator>AMac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-358727</guid>
		<description>An excerpt from Ryan Lizza&#039;s &lt;i&gt;New Yorker&lt;/i&gt; article on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/07/13/obama-your-typical-politician/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama&#039;s rise in Chicago politics.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Preckwinkle soon became an Obama loyalist, and she stuck with him in a State Senate campaign that strained or ruptured many friendships but was ultimately successful. Four years later, in 2000, she backed Obama in a doomed congressional campaign against a local icon, the former Black Panther Bobby Rush. And in 2004 Preckwinkle supported Obama during his improbable, successful run for the United States Senate. So it was startling to learn that Toni Preckwinkle had become disenchanted with Barack Obama.

[snip]

On issue after issue, Preckwinkle presented Obama as someone who thrived in the world of Chicago politics. She suggested that Obama joined Jeremiah Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ for political reasons. “It’s a church that would provide you with lots of social connections and prominent parishioners,” she said. “It’s a good place for a politician to be a member.” Preckwinkle was unsparing on the subject of the Chicago real-estate developer Antoin (Tony) Rezko, a friend of Obama’s and one of his top fund-raisers, who was recently convicted of fraud, bribery, and money laundering: “Who you take money from is a reflection of your knowledge at the time and your principles.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excerpt from Ryan Lizza&#8217;s <i>New Yorker</i> article on <a href="http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/07/13/obama-your-typical-politician/" rel="nofollow">Obama&#8217;s rise in Chicago politics.</a><br />
<blockquote>Preckwinkle soon became an Obama loyalist, and she stuck with him in a State Senate campaign that strained or ruptured many friendships but was ultimately successful. Four years later, in 2000, she backed Obama in a doomed congressional campaign against a local icon, the former Black Panther Bobby Rush. And in 2004 Preckwinkle supported Obama during his improbable, successful run for the United States Senate. So it was startling to learn that Toni Preckwinkle had become disenchanted with Barack Obama.</p>
<p>[snip]</p>
<p>On issue after issue, Preckwinkle presented Obama as someone who thrived in the world of Chicago politics. She suggested that Obama joined Jeremiah Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ for political reasons. “It’s a church that would provide you with lots of social connections and prominent parishioners,” she said. “It’s a good place for a politician to be a member.” Preckwinkle was unsparing on the subject of the Chicago real-estate developer Antoin (Tony) Rezko, a friend of Obama’s and one of his top fund-raisers, who was recently convicted of fraud, bribery, and money laundering: “Who you take money from is a reflection of your knowledge at the time and your principles.”</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: madmax333</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-358599</link>
		<dc:creator>madmax333</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 20:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-358599</guid>
		<description>Regarding Levi&#039;s claim that Obama&#039;s parents would have been illegally married in many states, why were they ever considered legally married when the father was already married and thus became a BIGAMIST? Do any states actually recognize polygamy? Even the great state of Utah populated with all those of LDS, doesn&#039;t legalize multiple marriages. 

And as far as blacks not being proportionally represented in prisons,what would Levi have us do..release them for racial balance or incarcerate more whites and asians? Seems blacks have more of a culture of violence. I know Obama has spoken about correcting the overrepresentation of blacks in prison, but how would that work? Maybe lower the sentences or just throw some out. Give longer terms for whites and less for blacks. Or perhaps the heat just goes after black murderers and lets white skate on murder and other crimes? Perhaps we could just legalize crack cocaine or drugs in general and pay burglars and assorted thieves NOT to play their chosen trades? Legalize prostitution since it is soooo victimless and honor pimps as upstanding businessmen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Levi&#8217;s claim that Obama&#8217;s parents would have been illegally married in many states, why were they ever considered legally married when the father was already married and thus became a BIGAMIST? Do any states actually recognize polygamy? Even the great state of Utah populated with all those of LDS, doesn&#8217;t legalize multiple marriages. </p>
<p>And as far as blacks not being proportionally represented in prisons,what would Levi have us do..release them for racial balance or incarcerate more whites and asians? Seems blacks have more of a culture of violence. I know Obama has spoken about correcting the overrepresentation of blacks in prison, but how would that work? Maybe lower the sentences or just throw some out. Give longer terms for whites and less for blacks. Or perhaps the heat just goes after black murderers and lets white skate on murder and other crimes? Perhaps we could just legalize crack cocaine or drugs in general and pay burglars and assorted thieves NOT to play their chosen trades? Legalize prostitution since it is soooo victimless and honor pimps as upstanding businessmen?</p>
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		<title>By: JD Esq.</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-358588</link>
		<dc:creator>JD Esq.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 20:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-358588</guid>
		<description>Levi&#039;s style of &quot;debate&quot; is to throw shite at the wall, and see what sticks.  Facts be damned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Levi&#8217;s style of &#8220;debate&#8221; is to throw shite at the wall, and see what sticks.  Facts be damned.</p>
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		<title>By: DRJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/comment-page-12/#comment-358583</link>
		<dc:creator>DRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/05/drj-and-levi-debate-obama-and-wright/#comment-358583</guid>
		<description>With thanks to Pablo and AMac, I adopt by reference comments 580, 581-582, 583 and 585.  In addition, this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_wright_pastor/2008/04/13/87617.html&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Newsmax article&lt;/a&gt; has more details on Jeremiah Wright&#039;s middle class life and early education: &lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Described by Obama as his sounding board and mentor for more than two decades, Wright was born in Philadelphia in 1941. He lived in a racially mixed section called Germantown, which consisted of homes on broad tree-lined streets in northwest Philadelphia. The owners then were middle-class families.

For 62 years, Wright’s father, the Rev. Jeremiah Alvesta Wright, was pastor at Grace Baptist Church of Germantown. He was one of the first blacks to receive a degree from the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia.

Wright’s mother, Mary Elizabeth Henderson Wright, was a schoolteacher. She was the first black to teach an academic subject at Roosevelt Junior High, the first to teach at Germantown High, and the first to teach at the Philadelphia High School for Girls. She became vice principal of Girls High in 1968.

Rather than attend the more racially mixed Germantown High School at 40 East High St., Wright traveled a few miles to the elite Central High School at 1700 West Olney Ave., graduating in 1959. Opened in 1838, Central High has a distinguished past and admits only highly-qualified applicants who are privileged to attend from all over the city. It is comparable to the Bronx High School of Science and Boston Latin School, both public schools known for academic excellence.

When Wright attended Central High, the student body was 90 percent white, according to students who attended around the same time. At least three-quarters of the students were Jewish. Former students of the period say racial tension did not exist.

Bill Cosby, who attended the school until transferring to Germantown High, has referred to Central as a “wonderful” school. In contrast to Wright, Cosby has denounced blacks who take refuge in self-pitying victimhood and seek to blame whites for problems in the black community.

“Central High was a marvelous academic environment,” says Tod Mammuth, who graduated in 1965 and is now a Philadelphia-area lawyer. “You had to have high academic credentials to be accepted and a high IQ score. Many later said it was more rigorous than college. We had no racial friction.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With thanks to Pablo and AMac, I adopt by reference comments 580, 581-582, 583 and 585.  In addition, this <a href="http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_wright_pastor/2008/04/13/87617.html" title="" rel="nofollow">Newsmax article</a> has more details on Jeremiah Wright&#8217;s middle class life and early education:<br />
<blockquote>&#8220;Described by Obama as his sounding board and mentor for more than two decades, Wright was born in Philadelphia in 1941. He lived in a racially mixed section called Germantown, which consisted of homes on broad tree-lined streets in northwest Philadelphia. The owners then were middle-class families.</p>
<p>For 62 years, Wright’s father, the Rev. Jeremiah Alvesta Wright, was pastor at Grace Baptist Church of Germantown. He was one of the first blacks to receive a degree from the Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia.</p>
<p>Wright’s mother, Mary Elizabeth Henderson Wright, was a schoolteacher. She was the first black to teach an academic subject at Roosevelt Junior High, the first to teach at Germantown High, and the first to teach at the Philadelphia High School for Girls. She became vice principal of Girls High in 1968.</p>
<p>Rather than attend the more racially mixed Germantown High School at 40 East High St., Wright traveled a few miles to the elite Central High School at 1700 West Olney Ave., graduating in 1959. Opened in 1838, Central High has a distinguished past and admits only highly-qualified applicants who are privileged to attend from all over the city. It is comparable to the Bronx High School of Science and Boston Latin School, both public schools known for academic excellence.</p>
<p>When Wright attended Central High, the student body was 90 percent white, according to students who attended around the same time. At least three-quarters of the students were Jewish. Former students of the period say racial tension did not exist.</p>
<p>Bill Cosby, who attended the school until transferring to Germantown High, has referred to Central as a “wonderful” school. In contrast to Wright, Cosby has denounced blacks who take refuge in self-pitying victimhood and seek to blame whites for problems in the black community.</p>
<p>“Central High was a marvelous academic environment,” says Tod Mammuth, who graduated in 1965 and is now a Philadelphia-area lawyer. “You had to have high academic credentials to be accepted and a high IQ score. Many later said it was more rigorous than college. We had no racial friction.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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