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	<title>Comments on: Obama: I Don&#8217;t Like Post-Viability Abortions for Mental Health Reasons &#8212; But I Vote for Laws and Supreme Court Justices Who Do</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355798</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 05:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355798</guid>
		<description>As a Christian, I emotionally do not believe in abortion, but intellectually, I remember the things that happen before abortion was legal.  Rove v. Wade was decided &lt;b&gt;35 years ago.&lt;/b&gt;  A large number of people do not remember when abortion was illegal.  Women &lt;b&gt;without the money to pay doctors&lt;/b&gt; that would perform safe abortions received back-alley abortions.  Women also used coat hangers and other sharp items to induce abortions. 

&lt;b&gt;Republicans Never Delivered Promised Abortion Law Change&lt;/b&gt; 

 Why does anyone think &lt;b&gt;John McCain&lt;/b&gt; will make any changes in the abortion law? 

As California&#039;s governor, &lt;b&gt;Ronald Reagan&lt;/b&gt; signed permissive abortion legislation that leads to many abortions. As a presidential candidate, he pledged to seek an anti-abortion constitutional amendment, but never fought hard for one. &lt;/b&gt;

&lt;b&gt;George W. Bush flip-flopped&lt;/b&gt; from his earlier stance on abortion when he ran for President.  Bush has had 7.5 yrs and a Republican controlled Congress until 2006 - Bush did not achieve a constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion. 

There is a good article written by a doctor that treated the results of bad abortions:  Repairing the Damage, Before Roe By Waldo L. Fielding, M.D.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/views/03essa.html?_r=1&amp;scp=3&amp;sq=%22roe%20v.%20wade%22&amp;st=cse&amp;oref=slogin  
&lt;blockquote&gt;However, not simply coat hangers were used.

Almost any implement you can imagine had been and was used to start an abortion — &lt;b&gt;darning needles, crochet hooks, cut-glass salt shakers, soda bottles, sometimes intact, sometimes with the top broken off. &lt;/b&gt;

Another method that I did not encounter, but heard about from colleagues in other hospitals, was a &lt;b&gt;soap solution &lt;/b&gt;forced through the cervical canal with a syringe. This could cause almost &lt;b&gt;immediate death&lt;/b&gt; if a bubble in the solution entered a blood vessel and was transported to the heart. 

The worst case I saw, and one I hope no one else will ever have to face, was that of a nurse who was admitted with what looked like a partly delivered umbilical cord. Yet as soon as we examined her, we realized that what we thought was the cord was in fact &lt;b&gt;part of her intestine, &lt;/b&gt;which had been hooked and torn by whatever implement had been used in the abortion. It took&lt;b&gt; six hours of surgery&lt;/b&gt; to remove the infected uterus and ovaries and repair the part of the bowel that was still functional.

It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. They &lt;b&gt;have always been done, dating from ancient Greek days. &lt;/b&gt; 

What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting, thus conferring on women, finally, the &lt;b&gt;full rights of first-class citizens&lt;/b&gt; — and freeing their doctors to treat them as such. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
It is way past time to &lt;b&gt;stop&lt;/b&gt; making abortion a &lt;b&gt;one-issue&lt;/b&gt; decision for choosing a President.  It is time to focus on the &lt;b&gt;economy, Iraq war, gas prices, health care&lt;/b&gt;—the things that matter to everyone, except the &lt;b&gt;wealthy that want a President that will make them richer. &lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Christian, I emotionally do not believe in abortion, but intellectually, I remember the things that happen before abortion was legal.  Rove v. Wade was decided <b>35 years ago.</b>  A large number of people do not remember when abortion was illegal.  Women <b>without the money to pay doctors</b> that would perform safe abortions received back-alley abortions.  Women also used coat hangers and other sharp items to induce abortions. </p>
<p><b>Republicans Never Delivered Promised Abortion Law Change</b> </p>
<p> Why does anyone think <b>John McCain</b> will make any changes in the abortion law? </p>
<p>As California&#8217;s governor, <b>Ronald Reagan</b> signed permissive abortion legislation that leads to many abortions. As a presidential candidate, he pledged to seek an anti-abortion constitutional amendment, but never fought hard for one. </p>
<p><b>George W. Bush flip-flopped</b> from his earlier stance on abortion when he ran for President.  Bush has had 7.5 yrs and a Republican controlled Congress until 2006 &#8211; Bush did not achieve a constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion. </p>
<p>There is a good article written by a doctor that treated the results of bad abortions:  Repairing the Damage, Before Roe By Waldo L. Fielding, M.D.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/views/03essa.html?_r=1&amp;scp=3&amp;sq=%22roe%20v.%20wade%22&amp;st=cse&amp;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/views/03essa.html?_r=1&amp;scp=3&amp;sq=%22roe%20v.%20wade%22&amp;st=cse&amp;oref=slogin</a>  </p>
<blockquote><p>However, not simply coat hangers were used.</p>
<p>Almost any implement you can imagine had been and was used to start an abortion — <b>darning needles, crochet hooks, cut-glass salt shakers, soda bottles, sometimes intact, sometimes with the top broken off. </b></p>
<p>Another method that I did not encounter, but heard about from colleagues in other hospitals, was a <b>soap solution </b>forced through the cervical canal with a syringe. This could cause almost <b>immediate death</b> if a bubble in the solution entered a blood vessel and was transported to the heart. </p>
<p>The worst case I saw, and one I hope no one else will ever have to face, was that of a nurse who was admitted with what looked like a partly delivered umbilical cord. Yet as soon as we examined her, we realized that what we thought was the cord was in fact <b>part of her intestine, </b>which had been hooked and torn by whatever implement had been used in the abortion. It took<b> six hours of surgery</b> to remove the infected uterus and ovaries and repair the part of the bowel that was still functional.</p>
<p>It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. They <b>have always been done, dating from ancient Greek days. </b> </p>
<p>What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting, thus conferring on women, finally, the <b>full rights of first-class citizens</b> — and freeing their doctors to treat them as such. </p></blockquote>
<p>It is way past time to <b>stop</b> making abortion a <b>one-issue</b> decision for choosing a President.  It is time to focus on the <b>economy, Iraq war, gas prices, health care</b>—the things that matter to everyone, except the <b>wealthy that want a President that will make them richer. </b></p>
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		<title>By: Drumwaster</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355415</link>
		<dc:creator>Drumwaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355415</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;is there any enumerated right that is held as absolutely as the made-up unenumerated abortion right?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The separation of church and State.

(Oh, c&#039;mon, I&#039;m KIDDING...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>is there any enumerated right that is held as absolutely as the made-up unenumerated abortion right?</p></blockquote>
<p>The separation of church and State.</p>
<p>(Oh, c&#8217;mon, I&#8217;m KIDDING&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Murphy</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355405</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355405</guid>
		<description>By the way, is there any enumerated right that is held as absolutely as the &lt;strike&gt;made-up&lt;/strike&gt; unenumerated abortion right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, is there any enumerated right that is held as absolutely as the <strike>made-up</strike> unenumerated abortion right?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Murphy</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355404</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355404</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t you guys understand?

It is a clearly written Constitutional Right for a 14-year-old girl to have a publicly-financed week-37 abortion on a whim, and have the state lie to her parents about it for her.

Obama&#039;s just following the Constitution.  Can&#039;t you guys READ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t you guys understand?</p>
<p>It is a clearly written Constitutional Right for a 14-year-old girl to have a publicly-financed week-37 abortion on a whim, and have the state lie to her parents about it for her.</p>
<p>Obama&#8217;s just following the Constitution.  Can&#8217;t you guys READ?</p>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355377</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355377</guid>
		<description>“Mental stress” is not a well defined exception. 

On that, we agree.  It has grown to encompass so many things so as to make it meaningless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Mental stress” is not a well defined exception. </p>
<p>On that, we agree.  It has grown to encompass so many things so as to make it meaningless.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355372</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355372</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mental stress&quot; is not a well defined exception. 

Greenberg appears to consider the observation Obama&#039;s definitive and comprehensive ruling out of ANY mental health exception. She can label him the most unblushing panderer in recorded history, but  that&#039;s one imprecise exhibit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mental stress&#8221; is not a well defined exception. </p>
<p>Greenberg appears to consider the observation Obama&#8217;s definitive and comprehensive ruling out of ANY mental health exception. She can label him the most unblushing panderer in recorded history, but  that&#8217;s one imprecise exhibit.</p>
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		<title>By: Drumwaster</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355362</link>
		<dc:creator>Drumwaster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355362</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Abortions would be available to all who chose them without a second thought.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Speculation at best, insulting at worst. I, for one have no objection for abortions performed to save the life of the mother (or perhaps pregnancies due to rape), but better than 99% of all abortions are done &lt;b&gt;at the convenience of the mother&lt;/b&gt;, because having a baby would inconvenience her in some way.

Because it&#039;s all about protecting the woman from stretch marks, innit? How about just keeping their fucking legs closed? (No pun intended.) Abstinence has a 100% success rate at preventing pregnancies, not to mention preventing the spread of STDs.

But self-control has never been a big part of the pro-choice arguments...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Abortions would be available to all who chose them without a second thought.</p></blockquote>
<p>Speculation at best, insulting at worst. I, for one have no objection for abortions performed to save the life of the mother (or perhaps pregnancies due to rape), but better than 99% of all abortions are done <b>at the convenience of the mother</b>, because having a baby would inconvenience her in some way.</p>
<p>Because it&#8217;s all about protecting the woman from stretch marks, innit? How about just keeping their fucking legs closed? (No pun intended.) Abstinence has a 100% success rate at preventing pregnancies, not to mention preventing the spread of STDs.</p>
<p>But self-control has never been a big part of the pro-choice arguments&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: steve miller</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355361</link>
		<dc:creator>steve miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355361</guid>
		<description>Shaun, nice comment, but off-topic.

It&#039;s not whether abortion is a sacrament. It&#039;s that Baracky now is changing his mind on his position about abortion.

And that he supports killing an infant in the process of being born. I find it hard to call that &quot;abortion&quot; unless we also want to call it abortion when we strangle the infant immediately after birth.

However, as long as the act is called &quot;abortion,&quot; then it is off-limits for discussion, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaun, nice comment, but off-topic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not whether abortion is a sacrament. It&#8217;s that Baracky now is changing his mind on his position about abortion.</p>
<p>And that he supports killing an infant in the process of being born. I find it hard to call that &#8220;abortion&#8221; unless we also want to call it abortion when we strangle the infant immediately after birth.</p>
<p>However, as long as the act is called &#8220;abortion,&#8221; then it is off-limits for discussion, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355357</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355357</guid>
		<description>If men could become pregnant abortion wouldn&#039;t even be debated. Abortions would be available to all who chose them without a second thought. If it&#039;s your uterus in your body, then it goes without arguing that the sole decision should be yours and yours alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If men could become pregnant abortion wouldn&#8217;t even be debated. Abortions would be available to all who chose them without a second thought. If it&#8217;s your uterus in your body, then it goes without arguing that the sole decision should be yours and yours alone.</p>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/comment-page-1/#comment-355350</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/07/04/obama-i-dont-like-post-viability-abortions-for-mental-health-reasons-but-i-vote-for-laws-and-supreme-court-justices-who-do/#comment-355350</guid>
		<description>steve - Baracky has stated that he would appoint jurists who viewed the primary role of SC Justice as one to bring about social and economic justice.  Now, one may quibble with whether or not the Justices that would view the mental health exception in the broadest sense possible would necessarily be in the same group as those that seek social and economic justice, but it is abundantly clear that they both come from groups that read things into the Constitution that are not otherwise there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve &#8211; Baracky has stated that he would appoint jurists who viewed the primary role of SC Justice as one to bring about social and economic justice.  Now, one may quibble with whether or not the Justices that would view the mental health exception in the broadest sense possible would necessarily be in the same group as those that seek social and economic justice, but it is abundantly clear that they both come from groups that read things into the Constitution that are not otherwise there.</p>
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