Patterico's Pontifications

7/4/2008

Jesse Helms Dies; Left Shows Class and Restraint

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 3:03 pm

Jesse Helms has died at 86. TBogg puts aside the partisanship:

Since we are supposed to say something nice about the dead I’ll just say that I feel sorry for his family and understand the grief that they must feel, fully aware that Jesse is in hell today … most likely getting [deleted by Patterico]ed in the ass by Roy Cohn.”

His commenters show similar class. Examples: “I look forward to his funeral, because then I will know where to go to piss on his grave.” Also: “Today, God blessed America.”

Note well: it is not support of the man or his views to note what assholes some leftists are when someone they don’t like dies.

Happy Fourth.

P.S. I firmly believe “TBogg” wouldn’t be this happy if the dead man were Osama bin Laden, instead of Jesse Helms.

Of course, if I’m wrong, it’s easily proven. All you need to do is dig up all his old posts exulting over the deaths of important terrorists.

Have fun trying to find those. I’ll be waiting for them, over here with the chirping crickets.

UPDATE: Captain Ed quotes a guy responding to notorious asshole Ken Layne by noting that Helms’s most racist comments (including some cited by TBogg) were made while he was a Democrat.

202 Responses to “Jesse Helms Dies; Left Shows Class and Restraint”

  1. Leftists have always subscribed to the motto “the personal IS the political.” So they cannot separate legitimate political disagreements from their feelings, since feelings are all that they possess.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  2. To call those who commented on that blog scum is a compliment. They’re worse than scum and I didn’t think that was possible.

    jwarner (0c2175)

  3. T.Bagg is among the classier acts on the frothing left.

    Patterico – Isn’t he also one of your good buddies from way back?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  4. Since we are supposed to say something nice about the dead I’ll just say that I feel sorry for his family and understand the grief that they must feel, fully aware that TBogg is not dead yet … most likely getting [deleted by Patterico]ed in the ass by somebody he picked up at a gay bar.”

    nk (16accd)

  5. The inability of the left to self-criticize has made them a perfect cesspool of hatred, intolerance, and sociopathic sentiment. No all of them so indulge, but they studiously look the other way when their own kind does it.

    Glen Wishard (02562c)

  6. Why is it that the left is always frothing? They seem such an unhappy bunch.

    btw, caption from LAT: Jesse Helms dies; former U.S. senator used race-baiting campaign tactics

    Nice.

    Dana (416b2c)

  7. i thought roy cohn was a bottom.

    assistant devil's advocate (f33a0d)

  8. Are they now saying that gays end up in hell? Or just famous ones?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  9. “White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories?” –Jesse Helms

    Well, he was indeed an asshole. Let us not lose sight of that central fact.

    johnw (cdd172)

  10. Drumwaster #8

    No, I think they believe that hell is just reserved for those they don’t like.

    Wheter one agreed with Senator Helms or not, you knew exactly where he stood.

    There was no flipping the Flop.

    Buckshot (0b6d26)

  11. So, are you guys going to actually defend Jesse Helms and his appalling history of racism, homophobia, and Salvadoran death squad support? Or is this more a chance to bash the Unhinged Moonbats who don’t think he was such a exemplary character.

    AJB (f4f260)

  12. So, are you guys going to actually defend Jesse Helms and his appalling history of racism, homophobia, and Salvadoran death squad support?

    So who here has defended him?

    Or is this more a chance to bash the Unhinged Moonbats who don’t think he was such a exemplary character.

    “If you can’t think of anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” – Moms everywhere

    Liberals everywhere have yet to learn that lesson. But liberals seem to… revel in the hatred they spew when anyone who disagrees with them dies.

    No one here has said he was even remotely exemplary, just that you asshats couldn’t lay off the hate.

    Not even for a day.

    I’d say “typical”, but you would call me a racist, no doubt.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  13. “she’s a damn lesbian. i am not going to put a lesbian in a position like that. if you want to call me a bigot, fine. –jesse helms

    jesse, you’re a bigot.

    i think the crux of patterico’s post, that the left is somehow more disrespectful of its fallen adversaries, is erroneous, particularly when this proposition is exhibited through carefully selected blog comments. when misfortune strikes, e.g., ted kennedy, a troll through the rightie blogs finds some very pungent sentiments. i think it’s about even, party-to-party, and claiming higher moral ground is less appealing to me than claiming higher practical/functional ground.

    assistant devil's advocate (f33a0d)

  14. Dumbwaiter-

    I’ll defend jesse Helmes to my grave. Yes, he was an exemplary Senator, one of a very few in the past century.

    rab (7a9e13)

  15. ada,

    I didn’t say the left is more hateful. But now that you mention it, you would conclude that if you compared blog posts and comments re Ted Kennedy to those re Helms.

    So maybe I *should have* said the left is more hateful, if the reactions to Kennedy and Helms are fairly compared.

    Patterico (a62b3b)

  16. I’ll defend jesse Helmes to my grave.

    You’ll defend him but you can’t even be bothered to capitalize his name? What kind of redneck are you?

    (Gee, I wonder how many liberal sites will use that comment as “proof” that “reich-wing sites” are “defending a bigot”…)

    Meanwhile, the point remains. So go play “Hide and Fuck Off”, alright? :-)

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  17. ok, i’ll bite.

    patterico, can you articulate an objective, scientific protocol for determining which side is more hateful? until then, you’re just featherfluffing on the high-minded morality perch.

    assistant devil's advocate (f33a0d)

  18. Just doing the usual quick scan of the posts when “Patterico]ed in the ass” jumped out at me. At first, I thought a new phrase had been coined.

    They hated Helms because he was effective. In their distorted world-view, Conservatives aren’t just wrong but evil. The invective is justified when speaking about damn-near satan himself.

    Helms never let it get to him, but soldiered on. We should do the same. RIP.

    Jeff C. (7b62cb)

  19. Jesse Helms was no hero. Period. But in death we all become saints. So I mourn his passing. May his soul rest in peace.

    love2008 (1b760a)

  20. ada, you can try what he suggested: “Of course, if I’m wrong, it’s easily proven. All you need to do is dig up all his old posts exulting over the deaths of important terrorists.”

    That would apply to any of the blogs on the left. Just simple parity between celebrating the deaths of terrorists and celebrating the deaths of conservative Americans would be nice. A 1:1 ratio.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  21. Nicely phrased, love, and a good job at setting a proper example.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  22. ADA,

    I don’t know who is more hateful but I think it’s striking how selective some liberals are in labeling people as evil. For years, the far left has called conservatives like George Bush, Jerry Falwell, and Jesse Helms evil while refusing to label authoritarian leaders from regimes like Iran, pre-2003 Iraq, or North Korea as evil.

    DRJ (a0ba79)

  23. Pat – just kidding with that “coined a new phrase” comment…

    BTW, we are heading to Long Beach later to take the kids to see the fireworks. Let me know if you guys want to go. Jeff

    Jeff C. (7b62cb)

  24. Why is independence day celebrated today instead of August the 2nd?

    love2008 (1b760a)

  25. Because it is the day that America declared her independence. It wasn’t for many years (and at least two wars with Britain) that she made it stick, but it was still the day.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  26. You see the same demagoguery over at the New York Times, where the news article (not opinion article, mind you–a news article) says Helms was “against civil rights.”

    Alan (0cf397)

  27. Jeff C,

    Long time no see.

    We’ll have to pass, though. Right now I’m lounging comfortably on a beach chair in Marina del Rey, our old stomping grounds.

    Patterico (6b04ed)

  28. ada,

    I’ll pick the five worst comments from TBooger’s site re Helms, and five comments from Malkin’s (or mine or Hot Air, pick one) re Kennedy.

    You pick the five worst comments from Malkin’s (or mine or Hot Air, pick one) re Kennedy, and you pick the five nicest comments fron TBooger re Helms.

    We’ll compare and contrast.

    Deal?

    Patterico (55629b)

  29. To me its more like the same reason christians celebrate christmas (the birth of Christ ) in december and not around september. Jesus couldnt possibly have been born around december period or the shepherds wont be out there in the cold winter night, watching their sheep. But because of church tradition, its been accepted as the date. The same with independence day. Even though everyone accepts that today is the day, we know that the declaration was not fully signed till around 2nd August. But why let that spoil a great day.

    love2008 (1b760a)

  30. Jesus couldnt possibly have been born around december period or the shepherds wont be out there in the cold winter night, watching their sheep.

    According to political and historical records, Jesus was born sometime in March in the year 6BC. That’s right, he was born six years before he existed. Tough job, but this was no ordinary dude.

    Even though everyone accepts that today is the day, we know that the declaration was not fully signed till around 2nd August.

    You’re conflating “signed” with “declared”. And the last signature on the DoI wasn’t affixed until much later. But the President of the Continental Congress, John Hancock, and the Secretary of the Congress, Charles Thompson, DID sign it on July 4, 1776 (the only two to sign on that day). That was sufficient to make it “legal”.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  31. We’ll compare and contrast.

    Who’s got the Vegas line on this action?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  32. Note that the vote was July Second. John Adams wrote Abigail saying ‘July 2nd will go down in history…’

    Al (d6892b)

  33. Let’s not forget that conventional wisdom spewed by an agenda driven media doesn’t make it right.

    Over at the Corner of National Review online they have a Helm’s interview by Nordlinger from ’85. Might be fairer to hear Helm’s side on his alleged anti-black stand. Even though the AP says, “Jesse Helms, a polarizer, not a compromiser.”
    And just how much has Urkel O!bama compromised on anything in the Senate? Or liberal lion Fat Teddy, for that matter?

    madmax333 (402fc8)

  34. Completely despicable — when Sen. Ted Kennedy was ill, I gave him my best wishes…he is a human being with a family, and he deserves our respect.

    The Left is shameless — a real disgrace to this great country of America.

    Richard Romano (3df804)

  35. i think the crux of patterico’s post, that the left is somehow more disrespectful of its fallen adversaries, is erroneous, particularly when this proposition is exhibited through carefully selected blog comments. when misfortune strikes, e.g., ted kennedy, a troll through the rightie blogs finds some very pungent sentiments. i think it’s about even, party-to-party, and claiming higher moral ground is less appealing to me than claiming higher practical/functional ground.

    All you need to do is just look at the blog posts on conservative leaning sites after Sen. Kennedy’s illness — you’re lying to yourself if you think the bigotry and intolerance even comes close to the horrific and monstrous comments left when a conservative is ill or dies.

    Don’t believe me? Do you know any blogs that turn off comments? I know HuffPo does often, because they know exactly what their readers are like.

    Leftists love to project their own feelings on others.

    Richard Romano (3df804)

  36. Alan:

    You see the same demagoguery over at the New York Times, where the news article (not opinion article, mind you–a news article) says Helms was “against civil rights.”

    The NYT said he was against civil rights because he was against civil rights. He was notorious for being a fierce (maybe the fiercest) opponent of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which he called “the single most dangerous piece of legislation ever introduced in the Congress.”

    Jeff C:

    They hated Helms because he was effective. In their distorted world-view, Conservatives aren’t just wrong but evil. The invective is justified when speaking about damn-near satan himself.

    “White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories?” That is evil. I would not say Jesse Helms himself is evil, but he believed in evil ideas and promoted those evil ideas in the political arena. To pretend otherwise is to truly have a distorted world-view.

    Silas (50a60b)

  37. Sort of like Robert Byrd evil Silas?

    daleyrocks (1cc55d)

  38. It strikes me that there are far too many people on either side of the political spectrum who would fit the following quote by James A. Baldwin.

    “Nobody is more dangerous than he who imagines himself pure in heart; for his purity, by definition, is unassailable,”

    While I have never done a study, my observation is that there is more hatred on the left than the right, but there certainly is plenty on the right. I suspect the reason for that is that more on the left operate on emotion rather than logic.

    Mr. Baldwin had some more words which we should all try to remember and learn from.

    “Hatred, which could destroy so much, never failed to destroy the man who hated, and this was an immutable law.”

    “I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.”

    While I vehemently disagreed with many of Sen. Helms’ positions, my sorrows go to his family and my hope is that he has found peace.

    Fritz (01411b)

  39. do all the comments about mary jo kopechne count as demerits for your side?

    assistant devil's advocate (0ef18c)

  40. ““White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories?” –Jesse Helms”

    Source please ?

    Mike K (2cf494)

  41. do all the comments about mary jo kopechne count as demerits for your side?

    Does pointing out that Kennedy left a girl to drown count as “negative propaganda”?

    I think the terms have been quite explicit, though, and I’d LOVE to see the contrast and compare.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  42. “Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.”

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  43. “do all the comments about mary jo kopechne count as demerits for your side?”

    ada, I gave you terms of a proposed deal. Did I stutter?

    Do your worst. If a reference to the name of a woman whom Senator Kennedy killed is the worst you can do, then so be it.

    Patterico (f35231)

  44. Mike K,

    Ever heard of Google? It takes about five seconds to find the sources.

    “White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories?” –Jesse Helms (The News and Observer, 8/26/01; The New Republic, 6/19/95; The Observer, 5/5/96; Hard Right: The Rise of Jesse Helms, by Ernest B. Furgurson, Norton, 1986)

    Silas (11c522)

  45. ““White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories?”

    Are you sure that’s not from one of Ron Paul’s newsletters Silas?

    daleyrocks (1cc55d)

  46. I’ll defend Jesse.
    1. When Jesse was ill and could not make it to the Senate (when in session), he would note the day and at the end of the Fiscal Year he would stroke a check back to the US Treasury for that days pay. He didn’t believe that the people of North Carolina should pay him for not doing his job. Jesse was not rich…I don’t think ole Ted would do that.
    2. He would return unused funds from his Senate Office account at the end of the Fiscal Year…always – every year he returned $$$$. Most Senators spend every dime and cry for more by the end of the FY…not Jesse.
    3. I had the pleasure of voting for Mr. Helms and President Reagan on the same day. It was always nice to see Mr. Helms defeat some corrupt Dem and never ever getting an endorsement from a major paper in the state. Every Dem that he ran against were crooks…Jim Hunt and Harvey Gantt were two of the biggest crooks in the state.
    4. You knew where Jesse stood. You may not agree with him, but he was a very consistent man and he was an honest man. You can’t say that much about anybody in politics these days.

    God Bless, Jess Helms.
    RIP

    Budahmon (b063fb)

  47. Silas,
    That is from an ad for a Democratic Senator in 1950!!!! Jesse never said those words. If he had they would have been used in every campaign by his Dem opponents. Dude you should learn the difference between what is a source and someone writing crap….

    Budahmon (b063fb)

  48. Lefties are good at one thing, hate.

    Ken Hahn (7742d5)

  49. Jesse Helms did, in fact, say hateful things about gays and the AIDS crisis. But later he admitted he was wrong and apologized.

    nk (16accd)

  50. That is from an ad for a Democratic Senator in 1950!!!!

    Do you have any knowledge of history? Really. Look up Dixiecrat. Jesse Helms was a Democrat in 1950. It wasn’t until 1970 that he became a Republican.

    Jesse never said those words.

    He wrote those words for an ad supporting fellow racist Willis Smith whose campaign focused on the endorsement of Jim Crow laws and the like. Look it up.

    Silas (11c522)

  51. My rule of thumb has always been that political differences end at the hospital door or any worse situation.

    At that point the opposition has no fair defense.

    After death a review of their actions after a time of separation from the event is allowable but not in the form of just vile language.

    daytrader (ea6549)

  52. Jessie Helms was a great American Patriot. We will miss him. To those who support a Congressional Caucus where membership is based on the color of ones skin, all I can say is HYPOCRITE.

    Dennis D (ae900a)

  53. John Stennis, Lester Maddox, William J, Fullbright, Huey Long, Al Gore Sr, Robert Byrd and many others never became Republicans. They remained and were embraced in their Dem Party.

    Dennis D (ae900a)

  54. Jesse Helms proved that he had real class in the matter of Carol Mosely Brown. When she was a Senator, she humiliated him in front of the whole Senate by shooting down his bill to renew the charter of the Daughters of the Confederacy. But, later, when Clinton appointed her ambassador and he was chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he treated her with kid gloves and ushered through her appointment. He was a good-hearted soul who evolved and learned all his life.

    nk (16accd)

  55. *carol moseley braun*?

    nk (16accd)

  56. Few Americans did more to help the rise of Islamofacists than Jesse Helms. Dan Burton would come in a close second.

    Becaues of his obsession with white Communists (he had no problem with ChiComs), Helms used his position in the US Senate to continously advance Pakistani interests. That Pakistan was run by Wahabi fundamentalists was of no concern to Helms.

    Helms and his fellow travellers (e.g., the Wall Street Journal) cheered when the Taliban (created by the Pakistani ISI) took over Afghanistan.

    India warned the US aobut sleeping with Islamofacists (but hey they mey be Aryan but they are brown skinned so their views had no bearing on the Great Jesse Helms).

    Thousands of Americans are now dead because of Helms’ fatal obsession.

    Alas, actions do have consequences.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  57. “He wrote those words for an ad supporting fellow racist Willis Smith whose campaign focused on the endorsement of Jim Crow laws and the like. Look it up.”

    You have been asked for the source for the following statement several times…

    “White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories?”

    You have not provided it. Now when called out on it you admit it is over 50 years old and that he did not say it but he wrote it for a campaign ad…but still cannot provide the original source. I’ll repeat this: If this had been true it would have been used in every campaign against Jesse. It was never used once by anybody, by any Democrat. That tells you a lot right there about who is telling the truth here.

    I do know history and I do know North Carolina politics. Having wetted my teeth as a democrat political operative in the state. I saw the corruption up close and personal. It’s the reason I became a Republican.

    Budahmon (67fb25)

  58. Thousands of Americans are now dead because of Helms’ fatal obsession.

    Alas, actions do have consequences.

    Comment by barry — 7/5/2008 @ 5:35 am

    How many thousands of Americans would be alive today if Helms had succeeded early on at quarantining the HIV infected before they could spread their disease throughout the country?

    j curtis (c84b9e)

  59. India warned the US aobut sleeping with Islamofacists (but hey they mey be Aryan but they are brown skinned so their views had no bearing on the Great Jesse Helms).

    Baryy, you might want to learn the difference between “Afgan” and “Arabic”, before you continue.

    TomB (ce6566)

  60. We are definitely guilty of malign neglect in post-Soviet Afghanistan but that blame is best placed at the feet of several Presidents, Republican and Democrat.

    nk (16accd)

  61. And that neglect is now echoed by the calls of the Left to cut and run from Iraq.

    nk (16accd)

  62. A wahabi fundamentalist is a wahabi fundamentalist be he an Arab, Afghan, Sindhi, or Punjabi.

    The families of several thousand Americans have learned that lesson the hard way.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  63. Fucking cracker-ass American wingnuts defending this piece of shite.

    Jesus Christ…smarten the hell up.

    The Rest of the World (09e2d9)

  64. Waiting for some of these asshole Republican to die is really the only thing liberals can do. God knows you people can’t be reasoned with…

    Levi (74ca1f)

  65. I belive that since one of Jesse’s staffers died of AIDs so I suspect his ‘quarantine’ proposal was one of the unconstitutional politicaly ploys garnered to gain votes.

    Jesse was also in a position to legislatively overturn Roe v Wade by introducing legislation that would exclude abortion cases from the purview of federal courts. Niethr he nor Henry Hyde did anything like that.

    Make no mistake about it — there was no neglect with regard to Pakistan post 1981. Jesse Helms worked hard to make sure Wahabi fundamentalists retained power in Pakistan and helped extend and consolidate their reach in Afghanistan.

    Jesse and Dan Burton worked hard to extend the role Wahabi fundamentalists to India, but, fortuntely for the free world, they failed.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  66. Helms and his fellow travellers (e.g., the Wall Street Journal) cheered when the Taliban (created by the Pakistani ISI) took over Afghanistan.

    barry – You have a link for this, correct?

    daleyrocks (1cc55d)

  67. I love how individual leftists claim to know and espouse the feelings of the rest of the world. I wish they’d seek professional, competant mental help.

    PCD (520e75)

  68. Jesse Helms was like all men: flawed.

    Like few men, he accomplished a lot in the Senate and acquired many enemies.

    Now that he is gone, it is easy to criticize him & his accomplishments.

    Fire away, liberals. You have no class, but you have the podium.

    steve miller (724340)

  69. I think barry goes on the same list as tbagg and mkdp. Jesse Helms and Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd. Compare and contrast.

    JD (5f0e11)

  70. A wahabi fundamentalist is a wahabi fundamentalist be he an Arab, Afghan, Sindhi, or Punjabi.

    I stand in awe at your ability to conflate wahabism, the Taliban, the mujahadeen, and the Pakastiani ISI (?!).

    Along with arabs, afghans, sindhi(?), and punjabs(!?!!).

    Of course, they’re all brown savages to you, aren’t they?

    TomB (ce6566)

  71. Thousands of Americans are now dead because of Helms’ fatal obsession.

    Alas, actions do have consequences.

    A wahabi fundamentalist is a wahabi fundamentalist be he an Arab, Afghan, Sindhi, or Punjabi.

    The families of several thousand Americans have learned that lesson the hard way.

    Wait, hold up.

    I thought it was because they were mad at us is the reason thousands of Americans are now dead.

    But it was all because of Jesse Helms?

    Wow, who knew he wielded such power?

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  72. From the WSJ editorial page Sep 7, 1995 (unable to post link as it requires a paid subscription).

    The taliban — chiefly traditional tribal people with a core of rural religion students, or talibs — have been trying to end the country’s agony for a year. They rousted warlords and restored order to the cheers of ordinary Afghans. Things started to go wrong when they reached the capital of Kabul, where the turbaned irregulars were massively outgunned by the well-equipped army of Afghanistan’s self-styled president, Burhanuddin Rabbani. By this summer, government soldiers had pushed the talibs way back toward Kandahar, and it appeared that their country’s best hope of peace was over.

    and

    They all joined the taliban . By the time the talibs reached Herat early Tuesday, the president’s men were nowhere to be seen. Ismail Khan, Mr. Rabbani’s chief man in Herat for more than a decade, had fled over the border into Iran.

    True to their national traditions, though, the taliban have invited their enemies to sit down for a talk. They believe that if foreign meddlers can be kept at bay this time, an exhausted Afghan nation may finally begin to come together. It is a post-Cold War coda to be hoped for.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  73. You can post a link w/o paying for a subscription.

    steve miller (724340)

  74. Waiting for some of these asshole Republican to die is really the only thing liberals can do. God knows you people can’t be reasoned with…

    Mr. Sunny, as always, a classless ass.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  75. Add Levi to that list. He already demonstrated his abject lack of class on the Russert thread.

    barry is a lovechild of mkdp and Big Brown.

    JD (5f0e11)

  76. Wow, someone who actually believes that there is no link between the ISI, the Taliban, and Wahabi Fundamentalist!

    And I bet you believe that inflation is only 2% becuase you heard that from the US Government?

    I guess facts don’t matter as much as defending a particular political party.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  77. Besides, many Punjabis and Sindhis are white.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  78. Sam Ervin & Jesse Helms were from the same era & had much of the same political outlook.

    Which one is vilified by the left? Oh, the Republican one. Of course, that’s just a coincidence.

    steve miller (724340)

  79. “Thousands of Americans are now dead because of Helms’ fatal obsession.”

    I thought Al Queda was responsible for 9/11.

    Now we learn that Jesse Helms was the root cause!

    Let’s invade North Carolina!!!!!

    daleyrocks (1cc55d)

  80. Sam Ervin didn’t employ homosexuals.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  81. Wow, someone who actually believes that there is no link between the ISI, the Taliban, and Wahabi Fundamentalist!

    Read what I wrote again:

    Wait, hold up.

    I thought it was because they were mad at us is the reason thousands of Americans are now dead.

    But it was all because of Jesse Helms?

    Wow, who knew he wielded such power?

    Now point out where I make any such claim.

    And I bet you believe that inflation is only 2% becuase you heard that from the US Government?

    Project much?

    I guess facts don’t matter as much as defending a particular political party.

    Show me where I was defending any party, much less a particular one.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  82. Sam Ervin didn’t employ homosexuals.

    Well then, by liberal standards, he must have been a homophobe.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  83. I’m confused who to believe this morning.

    barry, who says they hae us because of Jesse Helms, not because we invaded their country.

    or

    Obama bin Laden who says he hates us because of American military bases in Saudi Arabia or some other bullshit.

    barry – thee was nothing about Jesse and Afghanistan in your WSJ excerpt.

    daleyrocks (1cc55d)

  84. I see nothing in you post that clarifies your point. It does not deal with the real differences between, specifially, arabs and afghans.

    Here’s a hint. They weren’t best buddies.

    TomB (ce6566)

  85. Which one is vilified by the left, Ervin or Helms?

    I’m not sure the question was answered.

    steve miller (724340)

  86. Seems to me that Helms was instrumental in fighting against reverse discrimination and the left truly hated the idea that affirmative action was a bad thing. Surely blacks trult need to feel beholden to their liberal dem masters who fork out the laws and dough.

    Most of the leftist loons on this blog don’t give give a fiddler’s feck about what the truth is or how their actions impact on the country as a whole. All they care about is power and striking a blow against the Bush administration which has “robbed us of our constitutional right.” Bush has “wiped his ass with the constitution”.

    Any of you anuses on the left care to defend the Al-Haramain deicision reached in San Francisco? Think it really is a good idea if your urkel o!bama has to reveal the inner workings of how our intelliegnce services are able to track down terrorists? Or is it only a good idea when Bush admin. is attempting to foil islamofascists?
    Ok, go back to festering at the rectum of your various neo-marxist idols now. Oh, what will the far left have to say when KKK Grand Kleagle emeritus Bobby Byrd expires?

    madmax333 (2ef975)

  87. 65I suspect his ‘quarantine’ proposal was one of the unconstitutional politicaly ploys garnered to gain votes.

    How are quarantines unconstitutional?

    j curtis (c84b9e)

  88. #44, yes I have heard of Google. In fact, I even used it after your comment and found this:
    While working on the 1950 Democrat primary campaign of Willis Smith against Frank Porter Graham, Helms helped create an ad that read “White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories? Frank Graham favors mingling of the races.” Another ad featured photographs Helms himself had doctored to illustrate the allegation that Graham’s wife had danced with a black man. (FAIR 9/1/01, The News and Observer 8/26/01)

    First, that was 1950. I believe Senator Byrd was still an officer of the Klan at that time. Second, that statement is not a *quote* of Helms but an attribution and you know how they can be distorted. Maybe he was in the room when the ad was written and maybe not.

    MY point, which you missed or ignored, is that Helms was hated by the left and I don’t trust these alleged “quotes” attributed to him until I see the source. Note the date on the newspaper citation. I know you might have trouble with arithmetic but I’ll do it for you. That was 51 years AFTER the alleged incident. Why no cite from the same decade ? Hmmm ?

    99% of the stuff attributed to Helms are lies.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  89. “Waiting for some of these asshole Republican to die is really the only thing liberals can do.”

    Then why do even bother to post here, Levi – if we’re all just so terrible to even have to talk to, why not go away and shut the hell up, just this once? Could it be because you’re quite miserable in your own little world, and that no one can stand you on a personal level? Are you that repugnant to people, Levi? Could it be that your unrelenting anger and rage would only get you cold – cocked if you ever spoke that way to an actual person in real life? Are you a scared and frustrated little boy, Levi?

    Are you that insecure, Levi? Is your life that pitiful, in that you force yourself to consort with other sentient beings that you allegedly find so distateful? You have an unfortunate habit of making statements like these, but then you never fail to come crawling back to continue your flights of idiocy and invective.

    Do you go home and kick your dog each night, Levi?

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  90. Death and funerals are times when we are supposed to commend the good a man does during his brief existence, and to reflect on the fragility of life and our common humanity. With Helm’s death, like Wellstone’s, the Left shows us that their political interests exceed their interest in common human heritage. If a partisan is someone who puts party ahead of country, what do you call someone who puts party ahead of humanity?

    Socratease (11b622)

  91. The NYT said he was against civil rights because he was against civil rights. He was notorious for being a fierce (maybe the fiercest) opponent of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which he called “the single most dangerous piece of legislation ever introduced in the Congress.”

    Didn’t know Helms was a Democrat.

    Crimso (d27c42)

  92. Do you go home and kick your dog each night, Levi?

    Likely only if it’s a very small dog.

    Old Coot (85f458)

  93. You have been asked for the source for the following statement several times…You have not provided it

    In fact I have. Look at comment 44. What part of “The News and Observer, 8/26/01; The New Republic, 6/19/95; The Observer, 5/5/96; Hard Right: The Rise of Jesse Helms, by Ernest B. Furgurson, Norton, 1986″ don’t you understand?

    There is enough material here to comprise a Ph.D. thesis on cognitive dissonance.

    (1) Someone asks for the source, as if the five seconds of googling required to find it would be too difficult an endeavor to undertake alone.

    (2) I provide several sources.

    (3) Another person, also confused with cognitive dissonance, is unable to type the words into Google and retrieve the source.

    (4) Additionally this person claims that I did not provide the source — he is so confused that he is unable to notice the blog comment right in front of him.

    (5) Now a claim is made that the ad never existed and/or that Helms did not write it. An interesting move, considering how widely reported the ad, the quote, and its attribution to Helms are. It would be a grand cabal indeed if the press conspired to invent it. That level of conspiratorial thinking on par Holocaust denial.

    (6) To deny that Helms did not hold these views is also on par with Holocaust denial. The quote in question precisely reflects the platform on which Willis Smith won the election with the help of his campaign strategist, Jesse Helms, who wrote the ad. It is also the platform on which Helms himself later won elections.

    Silas (01325f)

  94. I love how the Dems have tried to re-write history in such a way that ignores that it was their party that opposed things like the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights, etc … It is always breathtaking in its audacity.

    JD (a6d772)

  95. the problem with taking up patterico’s proposition is that it would boil down to people speculating about kennedy going to hell for chappaquiddick—>good, and people speculating about helms getting buggered by roy cohn in hell—>bad. the commenters here aren’t the kind of jury i want to empanel for this decision.

    assistant devil's advocate (ce981f)

  96. Silas is a liar. And not a very good person.

    JD (a6d772)

  97. ada – I will be a fair juror.

    JD (a6d772)

  98. “To deny that Helms did not hold these views is also on par with Holocaust denial.” Of course, an editing mistake on my part. Should read: “To claim that Helms did not hold these views is also on par with Holocaust denial.”

    Silas (11c522)

  99. Silas is a liar.

    Which statement of mine do you claim is untrue?

    Silas (11c522)

  100. Silas – All you did was provide people that reprinted the quote, not the source.

    daleyrocks (1cc55d)

  101. jd, i’d feel better about your comment #97 if it hadn’t come right after comment #96. we all think we’re fair jurors, but we can’t all be right.

    assistant devil's advocate (ce981f)

  102. So, ada, are you admitting that what left-wing sites say is so bad that you cannot claim even the most remote compare and contrast with what the right-wing sites say (such as your “Kennedy is bad because he killed a girl” vs “Helms is evil because he was a Republican”)?

    Even Jeffrey Dahmer got a fair trial.

    Not willing to put up?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  103. Silas – do you understand the actual nature of providing sources? You didn’t provide links to articles that directly attribute those statements to Helms. Those articles merely speculate and indulge in heresay – no direct sources are provided. It shouldn’t be difficult to find, since other statements made by Helms (regarding the AIDS quote, for example) are easily indentifiable.

    You’re not arguing in good faith here – either provide direct sources for those statements or admit that you’re just farting in the wind.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  104. thank you drumwaster, for helping to illuminate the standard we’re exploring, which can be described as patterico did in the headline “class and restraint”. you seem to feel that class and restraint doesn’t preclude the mention, nay, the focus on a newly diagnosed brain cancer patient’s 40-year old manslaughter. i also liked your “helms is evil because he was a republican” spin attempt; noooo, i don’t think helms is getting all this negative attention just because he was a republican, i think it’s a little more than that. if republican arnold schwarzenegger died today, there would be very little negative commentary, let alone the image of him being sodomized by roy cohn. i’ll be (one of the) first to acknowledge that there are many, many good republicans out there, people who aren’t too much different from me. both my parents were registered republicans all their lives, although i was able to get them to vote for bill clinton. soon enough i’ll find out if i have to answer in the afterlife for that.

    assistant devil's advocate (ce981f)

  105. Why should Kennedy be handled with kid gloves just because he’s a brain-cancer patient? When bad things happen to bad people, that doesn’t mean we should forget how rotten they were. Christ. When Ivan the Terrible died, should people have started calling him “Ivan the Sweetie Pie?”

    Alan (0cf397)

  106. the focus on a newly diagnosed brain cancer patient’s 40-year old manslaughter.

    Which jury was it that came down with that specific verdict again? Because I remember that Kennedy was never even indicted…

    noooo, i don’t think helms is getting all this negative attention just because he was a republican, i think it’s a little more than that.

    Patterico addressed this:

    “P.S. I firmly believe “TBogg” wouldn’t be this happy if the dead man were Osama bin Laden, instead of Jesse Helms.

    Of course, if I’m wrong, it’s easily proven. All you need to do is dig up all his old posts exulting over the deaths of important terrorists.

    Have fun trying to find those. I’ll be waiting for them, over here with the chirping crickets.”

    Have you managed to find any posts celebrating the deaths of people who were trying to kill Americans? Any at all?

    if republican arnold schwarzenegger

    That would be the “Republican” married to Kennedy’s niece? He’s what we call a RINO. He was only a Republican compared with Gray Davis. (Remember that Arianna Huffingpaint ran for Governor at the same time as Arnold, and as a “Independent”, no less…)

    This whole State and every politician in her has been blue-shifted. So don’t take any California political designation as representative of the nation as a whole. Anywhere else, I would be a fairly moderate guy, since I support the decriminalization of cannabis and wide open immigration. But because I would vote against abortion-as-means-of-birth-control and that all those new immigrants should file the paperwork and get permission (rather than just showing up), I’m on a par with Genghis Khan.

    i’ll be (one of the) first to acknowledge that there are many, many good republicans out there, people who aren’t too much different from me.

    We’re not talking abou YOU. We were talking about all of those left-wing sites.

    You get to cherry pick the comments – the very VERY worst about Kennedy on the right-wing sites and the very nicest things said of Helms oin the left-wing sites, while Patterico gets the mirror image (vest best on Kennedy from the right and the very worst about Helms on the left).

    How is that not fair? Can’t you find any of those sites that have said anything nice about Helms? Or anything bad about Kennedy?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  107. thank you alan, for unwittingly reinforcing my position. i won’t be impaneling you as a juror, but i might subpoena you as an adverse witness. teddy kennedy and ivan the terrible together in one short comment, sweet.

    assistant devil's advocate (ce981f)

  108. I really have to start using the Preview… LOL

    Sew mulch four triune two use the spell checker

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  109. teddy kennedy and ivan the terrible together in one short comment, sweet.

    You just used them in a single sentence.

    Not the same, I know. It never is.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  110. And you’ve unwittingly proven your stupidity. I wasn’t equating a mass murderer with a minor one. I was simply using an example (clear enough for you to understand) of the point that when something bad happens to a bad person, that’s no reason to forget how bad that person was. How much more obvious could I have made that?

    Alan (0cf397)

  111. thanks again, drumwaster, for the insight you provided into hardcore republican thinking: marrying a democrat equates to a betrayal of principles. without knowing any more about you, i can conclude with reasonable confidence that you’re not married to a democrat. the next item up in my frequently prurient curiosity would be, have you ever had sex with a democrat? if not, you’ve missed out. i’m an equal opportunity lustbucket.

    assistant devil's advocate (ce981f)

  112. marrying a democrat equates to a betrayal of principles.

    No. Marrying a member of the Kennedy family is an indicator that the designator “Republican” might not be “hardcore”.

    I also speak about having seen him in action as my Governor for the past several years, and I can assure you that the word “Republican” in reference to Arnold is used as a comparative, not an absolute.

    without knowing any more about you, i can conclude with reasonable confidence that you’re not married to a democrat.

    She was a Democrat when I married her. Not any more, though. Exposure to facts will do that to you, I suppose. But I never, ever, ever criticized her political choices, just the facts on which they were based.

    All three of our daughters are also Democrats. Incidentally, they utterly refuse to acknowledge any facts that might disturb their world views, too.

    the next item up in my frequently prurient curiosity would be, have you ever had sex with a democrat?

    As I said above, the wife was a Democrat when I met her. Why? Because her parents were Democrats. Not because she actually looked at the facts or at the candidates, but just because it was expected of her.

    Have you ever had sex with a Republican? What about a Green Party candidate? Or the Peace And Freedom party?

    And what the fuck does this have to do with the hate being spewed by Democrats?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  113. marrying a democrat equates to a betrayal of principles.

    ada – That is not what he said. He noted he married a Kennedy, and he noted that very little about the way Ahnuld governs is conservative. RINO, so to speak.

    JD (a6d772)

  114. A few simple facts that seem ‘alien’ to many:

    1) Al Qaeda attacked the US because we had troops in Saudia Arabia

    2) George Bush acceded to the demands of Al Qaeda and withdrew all US forces from Saudia Arabia in April 2003

    3) Osama bin Laden said (circa 1998) that oil should be priced at $144 a barrel.

    4) Looks like that demand has also been met

    5) These are the first American surrenders to a foreign ‘diktat’ since Corregidor

    6) Jesse Helms and Dan Burton helped the Wahabi Fundamentalists gain control of Pakistan

    7) Jesse Helms was a strong supporter of Khalistan. Had India not fought that with blood and treasure (with Helms and Burton railing at India in Congress on almosta daily basis), we would have the Islamofascists in control of the five key rivers of the Indian subcontinent.

    8) You can praise Jesse Helms all you want but the fact remains that helped the Islamofasciss gain their key demands.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  115. 3) Osama bin Laden said (circa 1998) that oil should be priced at $144 a barrel.

    4) Looks like that demand has also been met

    Funny how it took a Democratically-controlled Congress to pull this off, innit?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  116. drumwaster: republicans, si. i’ve never been personally acquainted with any green party or peace and freedom people, i have a more libertarian outlook. i acknowledge that some democrats spew hate, as do some republicans. i don’t think it’s a profitable inquiry to determine which side is worse, but i couldn’t let patterico’s implications go unchallenged. just playing for the team.

    jd, i don’t agree with every single thing schwarzenegger has done, but his moderate approach that you are criticizing is the basis of his popularity. he’s doing a better job than gray davis (whoa, my team is frowning at me).

    assistant devil's advocate (ce981f)

  117. 6) Jesse Helms and Dan Burton helped the Wahabi Fundamentalists gain control of Pakistan

    I have no idea what that means, other than you have quite an imagination.

    Islamic fundamentalism had its start as an international force when Jimmy Carter pulled the rug out from under the Shah in favor of Kohmeni.

    IOW, don’t start pointing fingers, you won’t like in which direction they end up.

    TomB (ce6566)

  118. i acknowledge that some democrats spew hate, as do some republicans.

    No one is doubting that both parties are guilty of this. The question being discussed is the comparative levels being displayed publicly.

    i don’t think it’s a profitable inquiry to determine which side is worse, but i couldn’t let patterico’s implications go unchallenged.

    Yet you HAVE let it go unchallenged, claiming something about not being able to find “a fair jury”(read: favorable to your side).

    Yet you could settle the question very easily by pointing out where any left-wing site celebrated the death of a well-known terrorist like they are celebrating the death of a US Senator from a different political persuasion.

    Or, conversely, by taking up the alternate challenge of finding the very nicest things said about Helms on left wing sites (playing for your team, of course) and the very nastiest things said about Kennedy, while Pat finds the inverse.

    Then comparing and contrasting as to relative nastiness.

    The first would be either extremely easy or outright impossible (since it is a yes/no proposition), while the second requires some searching.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  119. he’s doing a better job than gray davis

    That’s much like being the prettiest fat girl at the dance.

    (I denounce myself for that comment)

    TomB (ce6566)

  120. Silas,
    You do have a hard time reading and comprehending English don’t you? You were asked for the source you provided attributions….not once but several times. Please provide the source for your claim. Define attribution and source if you are having trouble understanding simple concepts.

    Budahmon (5fdec0)

  121. the problem with taking up patterico’s proposition is that it would boil down to people speculating about kennedy going to hell for chappaquiddick—>good, and people speculating about helms getting buggered by roy cohn in hell—>bad. the commenters here aren’t the kind of jury i want to empanel for this decision.

    You go to trial with the jury you have. Were you ever a real trial lawyer?

    I don’t think for a second you’ll take up my challenge. I think you’re a) too lazy and b) aware that taking up my challenge would show that you’re wrong.

    So I’m just going to sit here and have fun berating you for failing to take action to prove your assertions. It’s fun watching you dance and offer reasons not to do it, which is all you’ll ever do.

    Patterico (cb443b)

  122. 119 Tom B, you should be ashamed.
    The question is, does she sweat a lot?

    Labcatcher (afe438)

  123. Shocking as this may seem, Wahabai fundamentalists are not now in control, nor ever have been, in control of Iran.

    Iran was fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan on 9/10/2001.

    The Democrats were not in control of Congress (the Republicans had control of the House) in 2003.

    George W. Bush was the Commander in Chief when the US surrendered to Bin Laden’s demand that we withdraw our forces from Saudia Arabia.

    I guess he never heard of Patrick Henry’s ‘chains and slavery speech’ nor had Bush ever heard of Tony McAuliffe’s reply to a Nazi request for surrender at Bastogne.

    Mission Accomplished, indeed.

    And Jesse Helms paved the way.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  124. Barry – You still haven’t provided any support for your claims about Helms and Afghanistan and Pakistan. Can we expect it any time soon?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  125. “Barry” (perhaps harpster as a dry drunk) is fond of assertions masquerading as fact.

    steve miller (724340)

  126. Patterico – On your Captain Ed update, Rusty Shackleford takes Ken Layne to task in the comments section and leaves this parting thought:

    Go hug a tree, you bleeding-heart socialist faggot.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  127. So the view in the peanut gallery is that Jesse was a saintly American who fought to overturn Roe v Wade, end the scourge of African Americans taking over our jobs, and valiantly liberate Europeans from the yoke of Communism.

    Pakistan had nothing to do with the Taliban in Afghanistan. And Jesse Helms was not an ally of Pakistan.

    Wow! I guess ignorance is bliss.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  128. I guess ignorance is bliss.

    You’re the only one who can tell.

    Still waiting for that evidence…

    George W. Bush was the Commander in Chief when the US surrendered to Bin Laden’s demand that we withdraw our forces from Saudia Arabia.

    Wow. I wasn’t aware that bin Laden suddenly became the King of Saudi Arabia.

    Because THAT is who the request would have come from.

    And they didn’t leave the region, since they only moved to more friendly neighbors in Qatar and Bahrain, where there aren’t any Muslims.

    Wait, what?

    Guess his demands weren’t as effective as you are trying to portray them.

    Disappointing for you, I’m sure.

    How’s that exit strategy for Kosovo doing?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  129. Ignorance is indeed bliss for those who make assertions based on nothing – how about those sources, Barry? What’s that? You say you don’t need them? You just know in your gut that you speak truth to power?

    Come with proof, or don’t come at all.

    Dmac (ea35f7)

  130. “UPDATE: Captain Ed quotes a guy responding to notorious asshole Ken Layne by noting that Helms’s most racist comments (including some cited by TBogg) were made while he was a Democrat.”

    Why is the partisanship so important? And if it is, I’d be embarassed to point out this guy got fed up with the other team and is now on mine.

    afall (14fcf2)

  131. Why is the partisanship so important?

    Yeah, it does tend to make the “Republicans=racist” meme a bit problematic, doesn’t it?

    I wonder what Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd thinks?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  132. I wonder what Grand Kleagle Robert Byrd thinks?

    Drumwaster – He’s too busy building another public works project named after himself to be disturbed to ask.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  133. “Yeah, it does tend to make the “Republicans=racist” meme a bit problematic, doesn’t it?”

    That racists leave the democrats and join the republicans? Not at all.

    afall (9ae93b)

  134. “So the view in the peanut gallery is that Jesse was a saintly American who fought to overturn Roe v Wade, end the scourge of African Americans taking over our jobs, and valiantly liberate Europeans from the yoke of Communism.”

    Somebody put that straw out before it burns the place down!!!!

    barry – Can you back up your words or are you just making shit up?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  135. That racists leave the democrats

    Wow, I must have missed Bobby “white nigger” Byrd’s conversion. Or Hillary “Gandhi would be pumping my gas” Clinton’s. Or Howard “only blacks in the room would be hotel staff” Dean.

    Or multiple references to Condi Rice as “Aunt Jemima”? Colin Powell and Justice Thomas as :Uncle Tom”? Lt. Gov. Michael Wright in blackface?

    I could go on, of course, but you wouldn’t learn anything from it…

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  136. afall – Sen. Byrd (D-KKK), Bull Conner, Fulbright, Gov. Wallace.

    JD (5f0e11)

  137. “I could go on, of course, but you wouldn’t learn anything from it…”

    At most it shows that the partisanship don’t really matter. Helms opposed the civil rights act, opposed an MLK holiday, etc etc etc. I don’t see a need to put a partisan label on these activities. They may have spot on the liberal-conservative spectrum, but even then, not much of a point.

    afall (64f7de)

  138. I think barry is a Petranos Esp. You have some interesting ideas, barry. Where could I sign up for your newsletter?

    JD (5f0e11)

  139. NK@#54:
    “Jesse Helms proved that he had real class in the matter of Carol [Moseley Braun]”

    I doubt that Braun was all that impressed with Helms’ “class”:

    Soon after the Senate vote on the Confederate flag insignia, Sen. Jesse Helms (R.-N.C.) ran into Mosely-Braun in a Capitol elevator. Helms turned to his friend, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R.-Utah), and said, “Watch me make her cry. I’m going to make her cry. I’m going to sing ‘Dixie’ until she cries.” He then proceeded to sing the song about “the good life” during slavery to Mosely-Braun (Gannett News Service, 1993-09-02; Time, 1993-08-16)

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  140. From Atlas Shrugs 07/04/08

    “Obama probably did not think about the presidential office possibility when he wrote the book “Dreams From My Father” as it is laden with racist categorizations. Obama catagorizes people according to skin tone, as some are olive, pale, walnut, etc. Almost to the point of being laughable, if it was not so pathetic and scary. The last person to be that race obsessed in power started freakin’ WWII and murdered millions of innocent people.”………………

    “My point is further made by the fact that the Obama for President Website censored the guy that posted direct quotes from Obama’s books within 36 hours.

    Obama’s minions are banking on the fact that the bulk of the American public will rely on CNN for their information. That and most people are to stupid or busy to pick up Obama’s book, as the liberals will just buy it so it’s on their bookshelf and they can say they read it.

    The truth is the truth and the words that the guy posted were written by Obama.”

    Obama, in his own words ( via Right Mind)

    From Dreams of My Father: “I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.”

    From Dreams of My Father: “I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother?s race.”

    From Dreams of My Father: “There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.”

    From Dreams of My Father: “It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.”

    From Dreams of My Father: “I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn’t speak to my own. It was into my father’s image, the black man, son of Africa, that I’d packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, Dubois and Mandela.”

    And more here:

    From Dreams of My Father: ‘I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.’

    The democrats are the party of identity politics, which is why Obama feels right at home. He’s just coming at it from the opposite side than Jesse Helms.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  141. At most it shows that the partisanship don’t really matter.

    So the facts don’t support your argument, therefore the facts don’t matter. Is that about it?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  142. Carol Moseley Braun is a piece of trash IMHO.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  143. daleyrocks: So that makes Helms’ behavior fine with you then?

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  144. Bob – Can you show me where I said that?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  145. Bob Loblaw – If Barack Obama’s words are OK with you, then I take it you have no problem with what Jesse Helms did or said.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  146. “So the facts don’t support your argument, therefore the facts don’t matter. Is that about it?”

    I started by saying that Helm’s party didn’t really matter. and If it does, it shows a racist leaving the dems and joining the GOP. The facts haven’t changed around that.

    afall (f08e10)

  147. If it does, it shows a racist leaving the dems and joining the GOP. The facts haven’t changed around that.

    Nor does it hide the fact that the Democratic party is still filled with racists of one stripe and another, who haven’t bothered to leave. Some are still in office.

    But thanks for playing.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  148. Grand Kleagle Byrd. Bull Conner. Gov. Wallace. Fulbright. Which party tried to filibuster the Civil Rights Act? Which party had a higer percentage of its members vote in favor of the Civil Rights Act?

    JD (5f0e11)

  149. daleyrocks: Ummm, are you on medication?

    So, I’ll take it you don’t think your own low opinion of Senator Moseley Braun excuses Senator Helms’ racist (and rather ungentlemanly) behavior in this instance.

    And I’ll leave you to whatever conversations you are conducting with yourself.

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  150. So, I’ll take it you don’t think your own low opinion of Senator Moseley Braun excuses Senator Helms’ racist (and rather ungentlemanly) behavior in this instance.

    He said nothing about that. He simply called that POS CMB a “piece of trash”.

    The rest is you projecting your own nonsense onto that simple comment. Are you saying that Carol isn’t a piece of trash?

    Provide proof.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  151. Wow, its in the water!

    I didn’t provide any opinion on Moseley Braun; I don’t really know all that much about her. What I do know doesn’t lead me to believe she is a “piece of trash”. So, no I don’t think she is – and the proof that I’m saying that is this sentence. Moron.

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  152. “Nor does it hide the fact that the Democratic party is still filled with racists of one stripe and another, who haven’t bothered to leave. Some are still in office.”

    I don’t understand your obsession with ‘hiding facts.’ I started all this not understanding the need to pin a party label on helms. People wanna think he’s a conservative hero? fine. let them know what he wanted to conserve.

    afall (f08e10)

  153. I didn’t provide any opinion on Moseley Braun;

    By which I can take it to mean that she is not worthy of soiling your lily-white lips with, and that proves that you are a racist.

    (Wow, projecting on a negative can be fun!)

    What I do know doesn’t lead me to believe she is a “piece of trash”.

    Ladies and gentlemen, this is known as “argument from ignorance”. The argument most often takes the form of “it didn’t happen to me, therefore it didn’t happen at all”. Moving on…..

    and the proof that I’m saying that is this sentence.

    “I’m saying so, and that’s all the evidence I need.”

    No wonder you believe such ridiculous things.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  154. Bob Noballz has dropped by before. I believe he called everyone a racist last time too.

    Racists

    JD (5f0e11)

  155. I’ll upgrade my ad hominem to Moron Troll, Timewaster. You have a good day though :)

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  156. You, too, dumbass! 8)

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  157. No Muslims in Qatar? Wow, you learn something everyday.

    Bin Laden wanted US troops out of the Muslim Holy Land.

    And George W. Bush, said, “Yes, sir, Mr. Bin Laden, Sir”

    Given the bravery of the current occupant of the White House, one can be thankful that Helms/Burton failed in their efforts to help Pakistan set up puppet Islamaofascists states in Kashmir and the Punjab.

    We can also be thankful that Douglas MacArthur, Tony McCaullife, William Lawrence and Patrick Henry aren’t alive to see what has become of this once great nation.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  158. “And George W. Bush, said, “Yes, sir, Mr. Bin Laden, Sir””

    barry – I’ll bet you’re not going to give us any back up for this one either, are you?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  159. Wow, you learn something everyday.

    Yup. It’s called “sarcasm”. Next, we’ll try “irony”…

    (Does being that stupid hurt?)

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  160. Bullshit JD. I’ve never called anyone racist on this blog – not before, and not now (except for Helms – and is anyone actually disputing that?)

    I’m an occassional reader, infrequent commenter, but all my comments (until Dumbwaiter there) have been civil and on point. So I’ll leave you to your little circle jerk fantasies and move on, thanks.

    Bob Loblaw (6d485c)

  161. geez Drum, you leave the thread for a few minutes and people break bad on you when you use their cheap rhetorical ploys against them.

    Sore losers. Thanks. CMB is a worthless POS.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  162. You’re still here? You claimed you were leaving.

    Guess you couldn’t leave without yet another ad hominem to finish off your last ad hominem with a little class.

    See ya later, Bobo Nobslob.

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  163. I still find this an amazing statement:

    only moved to more friendly neighbors in Qatar and Bahrain, where there aren’t any Muslims.

    BTW, Qatar and Bahrain aren’t part of the Mulism Holy Land. Neither is Iraq. But why deal with facts when you can recite RNC talking points.

    I know, I know, you want a link that says that because according to the RNC we are kicking butt in Iraq and inflation is only 2% and gasoline is close to $5.00 a gallon because of Jimmy Carter.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  164. I wonder if Bush sent a cake shaped like a key to bin Laden telling him that the troops have been withdrawan from Saudia Arabia like he ordered.

    I know, I know, Ollie North is a hero because he grovelled before the Ayatollah begging for the release of hostages. Rudy Guiliani said so.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  165. $5.00 gas is the Democrat Party’s baby – they promised to lower gas prices when they took over, and surprise, that didn’t happen.

    steve miller (724340)

  166. barry – Can fire melt steel?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  167. barry – LIHOP or MIHOP?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  168. barry is a real loonwffle.

    FWIW – Dan Burton is my congresscritter and I have voted for him many times.

    JD (5f0e11)

  169. Drum – harpy declared himself to be a LIHOP.

    JD (5f0e11)

  170. Dan Burton was for an Islamofascist puppet states in Kashmir and the Punjab.

    Call me old fashioned,but I don’t think that was in the interests of the United States.

    Everything is the fault of the Democrats. God Bless the GOP.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  171. Call you old fashioned, barry? Uh. No.

    We’ll just call you clueless for the fact that you are still taking a sarcastic comment as a serious one.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  172. barry – Did your dog tell you to say these things today?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  173. daleyrocks:

    Yup, his dog whispered in his ear.

    Paul (0ea0cf)

  174. LA Times has major errors in Helms story. From Newsbusters:

    Today’s Chicago Tribune carries a front page story on the late Jesse Helms, “5-time senator ‘great patriot’ who held fast to his beliefs.”

    The piece’s author, Los Angeles Times staff writer Johanna Neuman, states:

    Often he was the lone voice of dissent in the Senate. He was the only senator to vote against confirming Henry Kissinger as secretary of state during the Nixon administration. And he was the only senator to vote against making Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.’s birthday a holiday.

    Both assertions are wrong. MSNBC reported in a 2005 article on secretary of state Condoleezza Rice that Henry Kissinger was approved by the Senate in a 78-7 vote. And the King Center notes on its Web site that the King holiday bill, sponsored by Senator Edward Kennedy, passed in the Senate by a vote of 78-22.

    In its eagerness to portray the late Senator as an isolated, extreme extremist, the mainstream media are making up their own “facts.”

    He may be dead, but Jesse Helms is still driving liberals to distraction. May he rest in peace.

    PrestoPundit (ff5e16)

  175. I see barry’s still making unsupported assertions.

    Not that this will help, but this well explains the “nuances” in US foreign policy with regard to Afghanistan:

    “While the charges that the CIA was responsible for the rise of the Afghan Arabs might make good copy, they don’t make good history. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of gray. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA.

    Former CIA official Milt Bearden, who ran the Agency’s Afghan operation in the late 1980s, says, “The CIA did not recruit Arabs,” as there was no need to do so. There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight, and the Arabs who did come for jihad were “very disruptive . . . the Afghans thought they were a pain in the ass.” Similar sentiments from Afghans who appreciated the money that flowed from the Gulf but did not appreciate the Arabs’ holier-than-thou attempts to convert them to their ultra-purist version of Islam. Freelance cameraman Peter Jouvenal recalls: “There was no love lost between the Afghans and the Arabs. One Afghan told me, ‘Whenever we had a problem with one of them we just shot them. They thought they were kings.’”

    … There was simply no point in the CIA and the Afghan Arabs being in contact with each other. … the Afghan Arabs functioned independently and had their own sources of funding. The CIA did not need the Afghan Arabs, and the Afghan Arabs did not need the CIA. So the notion that the Agency funded and trained the Afghan Arabs is, at best, misleading. The ‘let’s blame everything bad that happens on the CIA’ school of thought vastly overestimates the Agency’s powers, both for good and ill.” [Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden (New York: The Free Press, 2001), pp. 64-66.]

    TomB (ce6566)

  176. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of gray. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan

    Gee, and I wonder who all those supported the ISI in the United States Senate? The same ISI that was launching terror campaigns in the Punjab and Kashmir to set, no doub, Islamist states.

    And what does ‘pro-Pakistan’ mean other than Wahabi fundamentalism?

    God Bless those who voted for Jesse Helms and Dan Burton for all those years! We have met the enemy and he is us.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  177. Alas, the true patriots on this site can’t deny that George Bush cut and ran from Saudia Arabia, just as bin Laden demanded.

    The ‘Saudis asked us to leave’ shows the weakness of the traitor right in this country. Bin Laden ordered the Saudi monarchy to get US troops out.

    We have gone form “I have not yet begun to fight” to “Yes, Sir, Mr. bin Laden, Sir”

    Let’s name some airports after Jesse Helms — the great patriot who did his best to enable Islamofasicm.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  178. #175

    I think that’s absolutely amazing. It couldn’t possibly have been a mistake, it just literally felt better to the journalist to make Helms “the only senator” in these instances because “Helms was one of twenty-two senators…” just didn’t express the point she wanted to make boldy enough. It just wasn’t lively enough for the page.

    j curtis (c84b9e)

  179. The ‘Saudis asked us to leave’ shows the weakness of the traitor right in this country.

    Right. What we need to be doing is violating sovereign, allied countries at our own whim and with no authority under international law. Obama ’08, Operation Pakistani Freedom ’09!

    Pablo (99243e)

  180. barry has an unhealthy attachment to Helms and Burton, and a tenuous grasp of the concepts of cause and effect.

    JD (5f0e11)

  181. barry, you remain ignorant. Do you have any clue why Pakistan’s efforts to foment insurrection in the Kashmir was not necessarily a problem for US interests?

    Because for many decades, India had a relationship with the Soviet Union and opposed US interests. Until the fall from power of the Congress-I party, the rise of more conservative Hindu parties in India, and very successful diplomatic work by the Bush administration, India was hostile to the US.

    Sheesh, learn some real freakin’ history instead of all the Chomsky crap.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  182. Let’s see as recent as the 1998, Jesse Helms (the great American patriot) was supporting the establishment of Islamofascist puppet states on the Indian subcontinent.

    This was when the virulently anti-communist BJP led coalition was running India.

    Despite the best efforts of Jesse Helms,Dan Burton, Dana Rorhbacher and Gary Condit, the Islamofascists did not gain control of the granary of Indian subcontinent.

    Name your airports after the great Jesse Helms. Treason thy name is GOP.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  183. Bin Laden demanded that we leave Saudia Arabia and George Bush said “Yes, Sir, Mr. bin Laden, Sir”

    To you, that shows incredbile bravery on the part of the US and proves that we are kicking Al Qaeda butt.

    Thank God, you guys weren’t around in 1776. That George Washington didn’t show any respect for the sovereign rights of the King.

    In June 1944, you guys would have said, look, France signed an Armistice with Germany ceding control of the northern 2/3rds of their country. We can’t violate the sovereign rights of two nations.

    Cowardice thy name is GOP

    barry (4ed0dd)

  184. Barry, you seem to misunderstand discussion. Merely repeating things over and over does not make them any more right. Do you have a shred of proof for any of the claims you make?

    TomB (ce6566)

  185. Barry asshat-
    Let’s say what you think about Mr. Helms were true. One powerful dude for sure to get all that accomplished on his own or with two other Congressmen. Somewhere I did read that Helms re-election turned out to a be the deciding vote that kept us from even more affirmative actions and set-asides. I don’t know how much power Helms could project over the state dept. or cia when apparently Geo. Bush himself is not obeyed by either, even if he is the boss.
    How about telling us about the efforts of one Jimmy Carter and his impact on overall life and foreign affairs for the USA? The dipshit is still allowed to throw monkey wrenches in US policy as ex-Prez and is another hate america and the dirty Joos first patriot in your eyes, eh? Tell us about Jimmuh’s dealing with Iran’s Shah? Or his interference in N. Korea nuclear goals during Clinton administration? Or his current ass-kissing of every anti-american despot he can reach out to. Israel bad- Hamas/Hezbollah/Fatah all good actors.
    I’m wondering just what John McCain would do with all the disloyal and treasonous libs enjoying apparent tenure in the State DEpt. and CIA? I’m sure that Obama isn’t going to betray those leftwiong whackjobs that brung him to the dance because he might promise that he’s pragmatic and will look out for best interests of all americans and not just those who brought him to power in Illinois or his “black power” constituency. People read the drivel in his books and praise him to high heaven and merely gloss over the troubling phrases about his views of whitey and his loyalty to muslims. I don’t know why the RNC cannot highlight Urkels’ own words even if that is deemed unfair and racist by the media and bambi’s minions.
    All these trolls leaves one to wonder how many are sock puppets from the same computer(s).

    madmax333 (93ae05)

  186. Bin Laden demanded that we leave Saudia Arabia and George Bush said “Yes, Sir, Mr. bin Laden, Sir”

    TomB said that barry misunderstands discussion, and barry replied “I would like to fellate each and every commenter on this board, and then perhaps snack on some of your excrement”

    Aren’t quotation marks fun?

    Pablo (99243e)

  187. Did bin Laden demand that we remove our troops from Saudia Arabia?

    Did George Bush remove those troops as ordered by bin Laden?

    I know, I know, the Saudis (a sovereign nation) just happened to ask us to leave, so the Bush surrender is nothing at all like Corregidor.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  188. Did you manage to prove a single one of your comments?

    I know, asking for proof for your unfounded and unsupported assertions that contradict actual historical facts is kinda tough, but you’re a MAN, right?

    (Pardon me while I double over laughing.)

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  189. barry, repetition of the same point while ignoring all responses is the mark of a troll.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  190. Jesse Helms did his level best to get Islamofascist puppet states established on the Indian subcontinent. Dan Burton did his level best to get Islamofascist puppet states established on the Indian subcontinent.

    That they failed in their efforts is apparently a mark of patriotism in GOP circles.

    barry (4ed0dd)

  191. Barry, we’re patient, but not deaf.

    Repeating your position w/o proof doesn’t make it true.

    steve miller (724340)

  192. At this point, barry, you are just spamming the thread. That’s just the act of a troll and vandal.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  193. 1) George Bush didn’t surrender to bin Laden. The U. S. still has troops in Saudia Arabia. It was Jimmy Carter that ordered their withdrawal in 2003.

    2) Jesse Helms and Dan Burton were stalwarts in the fight against Islamofascism. The Wahabi Fundamentalists who ruled Pakistan had nothing to do with the establishment of the Taliban in Afghanistan. It was those pesky Iranians.

    3) Jesse Helms is, arguably, the greatest American who ever lived (save George Bush).

    4)It’s time we forgot the so-called heros of our past like Tony McCauliffe and William Lawrence. Surrender to preserve peace is not so bad. Patrick Henry was a terrorist anyway and belongs in Guantanamo.

    5) And there are no muslims in Qatar and Bahrain. And Sindhis and Punjabis are all brown skinned.

    God Bless the GOP!

    barry (4ed0dd)

  194. Repeating does not make it so.

    Try again.

    steve miller (724340)

  195. 5) And there are no muslims in Qatar and Bahrain.

    I should have figured that sardonic comments would be a bit subtle for his intellect.

    Mea culpa.

    Can we flush him now?

    Drumwaster (5ccf59)

  196. Not a troll. A mental midget.

    JD (5f0e11)

  197. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340101/

    “Indeed, to this day, those involved in the decision to give the Afghan rebels access to a fortune in covert funding and top-level combat weaponry continue to defend that move in the context of the Cold War. Sen. Orrin Hatch, a senior Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee making those decisions, told my colleague Robert Windrem that he would make the same call again today even knowing what bin Laden would do subsequently. “It was worth it,” he said.

    “Those were very important, pivotal matters that played an important role in the downfall of the Soviet Union,” he said.

    unknown peacenik (74027b)

  198. And the MSNBC quote pertains to Jesse Helms’ death how, exactly?

    steve miller (724340)

  199. It does not. Of course, unknown peacenik does not put it in any context.

    The linkage between the US support of the Afghan resistance and bin Laden himself is pretty thin as has been shown before. There is no reason to believe that an absence of US funding for the resistance would have made any difference in bin Laden’s choices.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  200. Was away for the holiday and just heard about Jesse’s death. I am shocked! Shocked and saddened. This news is going to stick with me for a while.
    By the way, did anyone catch the Phillies score from today? They were tied with Mets in the 10th and didn’t see a final.

    Thanks.

    bayville (58eebc)

  201. It was yesterday and the Phils lost 4-2 in 12.

    TLove (b8e7b4)


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