Comments on: How it Works in the Real World — The Minimum Wage and Unemployment http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/ Harangues that just make sense Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:05:56 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Laura http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-405213 Laura Fri, 10 Oct 2008 11:21:10 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-405213 Online shopping is now a easy way of buying anything which they want by using the internet. Online shopping is now a easy way of buying anything which they want by using the internet.

]]> By: sierra http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-347113 sierra Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:10:15 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-347113 TomHynes says: <i>I think you meant somewhat elastic, not inelastic. If it was completely inelastic, demand would not change at all as prices rose.</i> The post reads: "inelastic <i>from a price stand point</i>." I don't know how well that maps to economists' usage, but clearly we're not talking about demand. TomHynes says: I think you meant somewhat elastic, not inelastic. If it was completely inelastic, demand would not change at all as prices rose. The post reads: “inelastic from a price stand point.” I don’t know how well that maps to economists’ usage, but clearly we’re not talking about demand.

]]> By: Friedman_ worshiper http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-347095 Friedman_ worshiper Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:17:34 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-347095 ADA your argument is foolhardy at best and plain ignorant of math and money at worst. That argument is the reason that the US experienced stagflation in 70's and 80's. Sweat is worth NOTHING, disposable income is everything. If the ice cream store is not turning a profit then your workers will have no job. You seem to have also forgot that this particular ice cream store was not out to compete with companies like Ben and Jerry's. Its market is small and price and demand so closely linked that a small change in either can mean disaster. And the people that they are employing don't need living wage, they are in high school living at home with their parents. As are most of .4% who were added to the unemployment roster. All the minim wage has done is make it harder for people with no skills or working experience to get a job. So you can take you egalitarian ideology and flush it down the toilet the hopes that those kids had at getting a summer job and some work experience. ADA your argument is foolhardy at best and plain ignorant of math and money at worst. That argument is the reason that the US experienced stagflation in 70’s and 80’s. Sweat is worth NOTHING, disposable income is everything. If the ice cream store is not turning a profit then your workers will have no job. You seem to have also forgot that this particular ice cream store was not out to compete with companies like Ben and Jerry’s. Its market is small and price and demand so closely linked that a small change in either can mean disaster.

And the people that they are employing don’t need living wage, they are in high school living at home with their parents. As are most of .4% who were added to the unemployment roster. All the minim wage has done is make it harder for people with no skills or working experience to get a job.

So you can take you egalitarian ideology and flush it down the toilet the hopes that those kids had at getting a summer job and some work experience.

]]> By: madmax333 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-346127 madmax333 Sun, 08 Jun 2008 18:21:25 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-346127 yassuh, our own watermelon jake. the workers are the victims and should share equally in fruits of their labors. Those damn owners of small business always taking advantage of the underclass with indentured-servitude conditions. To each according to their needs indeed. Works so bloody well in Cuba and Venezuela. That's why Oliver Stone, Kevin Spacey, Naomi Campbell and scuzzy M. Moore are abandoning filthy lucre of capitalism and relocating along with Susan Sarandon and others who have been harshly punished by the Bush regime. Work hard and accumulate some assets and the dem/socialists/marxists want to redistribute to the more needy who may well play the ant role in the grasshopper and ant parable. Cause I'm the tax man and what's yours is mine. I can see how many of us would be ticked off at the exorbitant executive priveleges given out. Maybe private industry is one thing, but why are local government's paying very lucrative perks to administrators? Just curious as to how they rate or what they do behind the scenes to warrant the rewards? And the whole PC lib racial card thing is so amusing. Blacks are apparently ready to get even with whitey. Boy, Oprah, OJ, Tiger and Urkel sure are suffering from the bigots against them. Ken Chenault, boss of American Express made $50.13 last year. Bet that black man must be sorely undercompensated compared to whites, eh? Maybe it just seems that the youth think they deserve to start out making mucho dinero. They cannot all be sports or rap stars with big bucks shoe endorsements? Bet most of us here worked our asses off at one time for less than minimum wages. Now there's an apparent culture of entitlement. I don't know what the minimum wage should be or what supply and demand would seem to dictate. If my days at minimum wage from 40 years back were extrapolated to today's numbers I suppose the minimum could be $12.50 an hour? Figure a new Corvette was $4000 then, a furnished room could be had for $10 a week, a haircut maybe 90 cents and many diner meals around $1. What can you buy today even with $12.50 an hour? Just wondering what the answer is. Government meddling only exacerbates the situation, no? How about if we started deporting the cheap illegal labor? Won't happen with Urkel or McCain. I reckon best thing for wls' parents is to rent out the property and forsake all the other headaches. yassuh, our own watermelon jake. the workers are the victims and should share equally in fruits of their labors. Those damn owners of small business always taking advantage of the underclass with indentured-servitude conditions. To each according to their needs indeed. Works so bloody well in Cuba and Venezuela. That’s why Oliver Stone, Kevin Spacey, Naomi Campbell and scuzzy M. Moore are abandoning filthy lucre of capitalism and relocating along with Susan Sarandon and others who have been harshly punished by the Bush regime.
Work hard and accumulate some assets and the dem/socialists/marxists want to redistribute to the more needy who may well play the ant role in the grasshopper and ant parable. Cause I’m the tax man and what’s yours is mine.

I can see how many of us would be ticked off at the exorbitant executive priveleges given out. Maybe private industry is one thing, but why are local government’s paying very lucrative perks to administrators? Just curious as to how they rate or what they do behind the scenes to warrant the rewards? And the whole PC lib racial card thing is so amusing. Blacks are apparently ready to get even with whitey. Boy, Oprah, OJ, Tiger and Urkel sure are suffering from the bigots against them. Ken Chenault, boss of American Express made $50.13 last year. Bet that black man must be sorely undercompensated compared to whites, eh?
Maybe it just seems that the youth think they deserve to start out making mucho dinero. They cannot all be sports or rap stars with big bucks shoe endorsements? Bet most of us here worked our asses off at one time for less than minimum wages. Now there’s an apparent culture of entitlement.
I don’t know what the minimum wage should be or what supply and demand would seem to dictate.
If my days at minimum wage from 40 years back were extrapolated to today’s numbers I suppose the minimum could be $12.50 an hour? Figure a new Corvette was $4000 then, a furnished room could be had for $10 a week, a haircut maybe 90 cents and many diner meals around $1. What can you buy today even with $12.50 an hour? Just wondering what the answer is. Government meddling only exacerbates the situation, no? How about if we started deporting the cheap illegal labor? Won’t happen with Urkel or McCain.
I reckon best thing for wls’ parents is to rent out the property and forsake all the other headaches.

]]> By: SPQR http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-346121 SPQR Sun, 08 Jun 2008 18:00:22 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-346121 Yes, it is <i>because</i> it is a "no-brainer", ADA, that Democrats' economic policy is such a joke. Democrats apply "no-brains" to economic policy - falling for emotional arguments that ignore economic reality. Yes, it is because it is a “no-brainer”, ADA, that Democrats’ economic policy is such a joke. Democrats apply “no-brains” to economic policy – falling for emotional arguments that ignore economic reality.

]]> By: assistant devil's advocate http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-346113 assistant devil's advocate Sun, 08 Jun 2008 17:38:55 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-346113 cracks have appeared in the parable of the mom-and-pop ice cream parlor, admittedly bought "on a lark" for their retirement. perhaps they thought it would be a standalone, self-sustaining money factory. how could they possibly have failed to write their names in the ice cream pantheon alongside ben, jerry, baskin, robbins and the inscrutable mr. haagen-dazs? did they work hard enough to succeed? did they bring any new ideas to the table? did they consider branching out into gelato and frozen yogurt? did they consider giving their youthful workforce raises and positioning themselves in the local market as a fair-wage establishment? did they make the best ice cream that they possibly could and charge a fair price for it, reflecting the cost of labor and ingredients, or did they use high-fructose corn syrup instead of sugar and buy the cheaper eggs/dairy at the end of their shelf life? we can't tell from this record, but we're asked to choose which to honor more; the disposable capital of wls' parents, or the sweat of a young worker. that's a no-brainer for me and most of my fellow democrats. cracks have appeared in the parable of the mom-and-pop ice cream parlor, admittedly bought “on a lark” for their retirement. perhaps they thought it would be a standalone, self-sustaining money factory. how could they possibly have failed to write their names in the ice cream pantheon alongside ben, jerry, baskin, robbins and the inscrutable mr. haagen-dazs? did they work hard enough to succeed? did they bring any new ideas to the table? did they consider branching out into gelato and frozen yogurt? did they consider giving their youthful workforce raises and positioning themselves in the local market as a fair-wage establishment? did they make the best ice cream that they possibly could and charge a fair price for it, reflecting the cost of labor and ingredients, or did they use high-fructose corn syrup instead of sugar and buy the cheaper eggs/dairy at the end of their shelf life? we can’t tell from this record, but we’re asked to choose which to honor more; the disposable capital of wls’ parents, or the sweat of a young worker. that’s a no-brainer for me and most of my fellow democrats.

]]> By: Stew http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-346085 Stew Sun, 08 Jun 2008 12:15:20 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-346085 I really enjoyed reading this. Great anecdotal evidence of the dangers of tampering with the small business model. Which is growing more fragile every year. I wish that people could understand that while Microsoft/GM/IBM and the like get the notoriety, there are many many more small businesses that provide the backbone of employment in America. I think the figure is something like 90% of businesses in America are defined as small businesses. So punishment, erosion and vituperative attacks on small business owners will eventually hurt all Americans. What happens to that 90% of the part of the economy that provides the vast majority of employment? I really enjoyed reading this. Great anecdotal evidence of the dangers of tampering with the small business model. Which is growing more fragile every year.

I wish that people could understand that while Microsoft/GM/IBM and the like get the notoriety, there are many many more small businesses that provide the backbone of employment in America. I think the figure is something like 90% of businesses in America are defined as small businesses.

So punishment, erosion and vituperative attacks on small business owners will eventually hurt all Americans. What happens to that 90% of the part of the economy that provides the vast majority of employment?

]]> By: denelian http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-346084 denelian Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:44:40 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-346084 for years, i had a second (sometimes 3rd) job delivering pizza for a guy who owned his own shop. paid under the table, at $5 an hour (but no taxes!), and $1 a run minimum wage went up... of course, so did many other things. cheese and milk and pepperoni and gas... he didn't raise our wage (although he DID raise the amount per run as gas rose). he raised prices a bit (which is harder than you think - pizza prices don't change much). he mostly raised the delivery fee. so of course people stopped tipping, because they were paying 2 bucks for delivery, and don't delivery drivers make $13-15 an hour? (at least according to all the signs that advertise for delivery drivers) i don't work there anymore; i can't AFFORD to work there. break it down: $500 a month for rent, $300 for bills (basic bills - electricit, water, gas - the things you are required by LAW to have) food is around $200 a month, gas for the car, if you are frugal, as another hundred, and so is car insurance. don't get sick. don't ruin your only pair of shoes, or rip one of your 4 pairs of pants; you can afford NONE of these things. no cable, no phone, no movies, no books or games or dates or anything but the gerbil wheel of minimm-wage work. or even slightly-more than minimum wage work. for years, i had a second (sometimes 3rd) job delivering pizza for a guy who owned his own shop. paid under the table, at $5 an hour (but no taxes!), and $1 a run
minimum wage went up… of course, so did many other things. cheese and milk and pepperoni and gas…
he didn’t raise our wage (although he DID raise the amount per run as gas rose). he raised prices a bit (which is harder than you think – pizza prices don’t change much). he mostly raised the delivery fee. so of course people stopped tipping, because they were paying 2 bucks for delivery, and don’t delivery drivers make $13-15 an hour? (at least according to all the signs that advertise for delivery drivers)

i don’t work there anymore; i can’t AFFORD to work there.

break it down: $500 a month for rent, $300 for bills (basic bills – electricit, water, gas – the things you are required by LAW to have) food is around $200 a month, gas for the car, if you are frugal, as another hundred, and so is car insurance. don’t get sick. don’t ruin your only pair of shoes, or rip one of your 4 pairs of pants; you can afford NONE of these things. no cable, no phone, no movies, no books or games or dates or anything but the gerbil wheel of minimm-wage work.

or even slightly-more than minimum wage work.

]]> By: Amused Observer http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-346083 Amused Observer Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:43:09 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-346083 " I don’t necessarily buy into frequently given explanation that businesses don’t pay tax increases, consumers do." Eventually either the customer does or the company folds. Not every small businessman is an astute operator but the math grinds away regardless. Profit is the lifeblood of a business. Remove sufficient profit and the business dies. ” I don’t necessarily buy into frequently given explanation that businesses don’t pay tax increases, consumers do.”

Eventually either the customer does or the company folds. Not every small businessman is an astute operator but the math grinds away regardless. Profit is the lifeblood of a business. Remove sufficient profit and the business dies.

]]> By: daleyrocks http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/comment-page-2/#comment-346082 daleyrocks Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:37:50 +0000 http://patterico.com/2008/06/06/how-it-works-in-the-real-world-the-minimum-wage-and-unemployment/#comment-346082 Yet another liberal who has never been involved in managing a business chimes in to make unrelated arguments. Yet another liberal who has never been involved in managing a business chimes in to make unrelated arguments.

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