Patterico's Pontifications

4/16/2008

L.A. Times Op-Ed: Muslims Love Equal Rights for Women and Hate Terrorism. Really?

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 12:02 am

It’s old news, but going through my e-mail, I see that one of my readers (Mike H. from Irvine) pointed me to this L.A. Times op-ed that was published when I was on vacation. The op-ed argues that Muslims really love women’s rights and hate terrorism. But it leaves out a few facts.

The authors tell us: “Anti-Muslim sentiment fuels misinformation, and is fueled by it — misinformation that is squarely contradicted by evidence.” The authors go on to dispute the notions that, for example, Muslims are against equal rights for women, or that they support terrorism:

For instance, Gallup found that 72% of Americans disagreed with this statement: “The majority of those living in Muslim countries thought men and women should have equal rights.” In fact, majorities in even some of the most conservative Muslim societies directly refute this assessment: 73% of Saudis, 89% of Iranians and 94% of Indonesians say that men and women should have equal legal rights. Majorities of Muslim men and women in dozens of countries around the world also believe that a woman should have the right to work outside the home at any job for which she is qualified (88% in Indonesia, 72% in Egypt and even 78% in Saudi Arabia), and to vote without interference from family members (87% in Indonesia, 91% in Egypt, 98% in Lebanon).

Well, that’s just peachy. But the fact remains that, according to the Washington Post, “Saudi Arabia follows a strict version of Islam that bans men and women from mingling and does not allow women to drive or travel without a male guardian’s permission.” In Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to vote. And if they get raped, they may end up getting lashed.

I could go on and on about this, but there is another misleading aspect of the op-ed to address:

What about Muslim sympathy for terrorism? Many charge that Islam encourages violence more than other faiths, but studies show that Muslims around the world are at least as likely as Americans to condemn attacks on civilians. Polls show that 6% of the American public thinks attacks in which civilians are targets are “completely justified.” In Saudi Arabia, this figure is 4%. In Lebanon and Iran, it’s 2%.

Once again, that’s lovely to see . . . but riddle me this: how is it, then, that a poll of Palestinians by an independent Palestinian group showed that “68 percent said they approved of suicide bombings against Israeli civilians, down slightly from 74 percent in December”?

If attitudes are really as depicted in this op-ed, I’m happy to hear it. Now how’s about making reality even slightly consistent with those attitudes?

28 Responses to “L.A. Times Op-Ed: Muslims Love Equal Rights for Women and Hate Terrorism. Really?”

  1. “In Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to vote. And if they get raped, they may end up getting lashed.”

    You’re overlooking the good things the Saudis do. Like funding a $20 million dollar propaganda mill at Georgetown University, so that the author of this op-ed can have a directorship.

    Glen Wishard (02562c)

  2. Majorities of Muslim men and women in dozens of countries around the world also believe that a woman should have the right to work outside the home at any job for which she is qualified

    …Why am I smelling a rodent here?

    If you can’t drive because it would interfer with your right not be be lusted after by men, you’re not qualified for many jobs… ditto for any job that involves you being alone with a man, as that would interfere with your “rights” as well.
    Probably against their right to be defended by their male relatives.

    Foxfier (74f1c8)

  3. “Polls show that 6% of the American public thinks attacks in which civilians are targets are “completely justified.”

    And I’d love to see the demographic data on this slice of “the American public.” To paraphrase Pauline Kael, nobody I know thinks this way. But I don’t know many recent immigrants from parts of the world where this sentiment is apparently common. Enough said.

    fat tony (b73a87)

  4. Muslims Love Equal Rights for Women

    Right. That explains why Muslim woman are not forced to cover their bodies, are not stoned for adultery, are not forced to undergo female genital mutilation and are not subject to honor killings.

    What a minute….

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  5. Islam is no more predisposed towards violence or peace than Christianity is. We get along with plenty of Muslim countries all over the world.

    Levi (76ef55)

  6. “how is it, then, that a poll of Palestinians by an independent Palestinian group showed that “68 percent said they approved of suicide bombings against Israeli civilians, down slightly from 74 percent in December”?”

    Probably because palestinians are different than Americans and Saudis.

    stef (394243)

  7. Stef,

    Are you a real person? You condone Palestinian terrorism? You are a sick person.

    Oh, even Brigitte Bardot has had it with Islam and how they destroy western culture:

    Bardot on trial for saying the Muslim community was “destroying our country and imposing its acts”.

    PCD (5ebd0e)

  8. “And I’d love to see the demographic data on this slice of “the American public.” ”

    They probably include people who think the bombing campaigns of WWII are “completely justified.”

    stef (dfd808)

  9. 8, Stef, they were, otherwise if you were even allowed to be born and live, your masters would be speaking German or Japanese.

    PCD (5ebd0e)

  10. Polls show that 6% of the American public thinks attacks in which civilians are targets are “completely justified.” In Saudi Arabia, this figure is 4%. In Lebanon and Iran, it’s 2%.

    What isn’t mentioned is the fact that Israel’s enemies don’t consider any Israelis to be civilians … on the basis of compulsory military service.

    See for example this article (scroll down to the 8th paragraph).

    aunursa (4c8f82)

  11. These polls are all very nice and all…when is the last time that an American or Israeli or British or Australian civilian…went into another country for the purpose of intentionally targeting civilians for death?

    These polls are about civilians being targeted. They are asking civilians (I suppose, although I really don’t know about the standards used by these polls or even the statistics)

    As far as I know, attempts by civilians to target and murder other civilians on foreign soil (or on ships, planes and other vehicles)…is purely a product of fanatical Islam in the last four decades.

    Who has targeted busloads of children, reporters, Olympic athletes…even a wheelchair bound vacationer? Have the Australians done that?

    I don’t know who “favors” what…I only know who acts upon it and who stays silent about those acts.

    cfbleachers (4040c7)

  12. #5:

    Islam is no more predisposed towards violence or peace than Christianity is. We get along with plenty of Muslim countries all over the world.

    You have said some really stupid stuff here at Patterico’s blog, but this takes the cake.

    The fundamental motivation of Islam is violent world conquest. To compare the aims of Christianity with that is ludicrous.

    And it offends me that you sully the name “Levi” with your idiocy.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  13. But it leaves out a few facts.

    Yeah, like most of them.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  14. #11 cfbleachers:

    …when is the last time that an American or Israeli or British or Australian civilian…went into another country for the purpose of intentionally targeting civilians for death?

    That’s happened quite recently, actually. But those guys were all …

    Uh, nevermind.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  15. I’ve seen muslims eating in muslim restaurants in Toronto Canada. (The restaurant was actually run by Lebanese Christians.) Head coverings everywhere.

    What was more interesting was to watch muslim families….Father with sons walking in front, mother’s and daughters behind.

    And there are no Islamic countries where women have equal rights. Nor are there any Islamic countries where non-muslims have equal rights, unless of course they have mega-wealth like Jackson, Jolie and Pitt.

    Jack (d9cbc5)

  16. From the article: [Fair use of LA Times copyrighted material]

    In fact, majorities in even some of the most conservative Muslim societies directly refute this assessment: 73% of Saudis, 89% of Iranians and 94% of Indonesians say that men and women should have equal legal rights. Majorities of Muslim men and women in dozens of countries around the world also believe that a woman should have the right to work outside the home at any job for which she is qualified (88% in Indonesia, 72% in Egypt and even 78% in Saudi Arabia), and to vote without interference from family members (87% in Indonesia, 91% in Egypt, 98% in Lebanon).

    So:

    94% of Indonesians say men and women should have equal legal rights.

    88% of Indonesians say women should be able to work at jobs they are qualified for.

    87% of the same group say women should be able to vote without interference from family members.

    Someone doesn’t know what “equal legal rights” means. This is such a siren that it’s hard to believe the pollsters missed it.

    The whole article reads more as a screed than a balanced factual account.

    –JRM

    JRM (355c21)

  17. The LAT Opinion piece is just extraordinarily vapid. But I repeat myself.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  18. Actually cflbleachers, the terrorist attacks cannot all be laid to fanatical islam over the last four decades, a small fraction must be laid to marxists. But otherwise, you are correct.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  19. An OpEd in the LAT…
    This, the paper of record for the country’s second-largest city, and it can no more be relied on for a fair, balanced presentation of facts than Pravda at the height of the Cold War.

    We (and Russians in the street) used to say, in those wonderful days of duck and cover, that there was no news in Pravda (truth), and there was no truth in Izvestia (news).
    The LAT is the embodyment of both of those publications in one corrupt rag.

    Sam Zell must have a great amount of income he needs sheltered, or his purchase of Tribune and the LAT makes no sense at all. It is beyond saving.

    Another Drew (f9dd2c)

  20. Anyone who has designed survey questions knows that the results of a poll cannot be interpreted without analyzing the questions. I can imagine the way the poll was conducted.

    No doubt the Saudis thought this woman “should have the right to work outside the home at any job for which she is qualified .” Of course, that work does not include visiting Starbucks with male colleagues when the air conditioning in the office quit working.

    Levi, you are such a fool I wonder that you can get your computer to work.

    Mike K (86bddb)

  21. In fact, majorities in even some of the most conservative Muslim societies directly refute this assessment: 73% of Saudis, 89% of Iranians and 94% of Indonesians say that men and women should have equal legal rights. Majorities of Muslim men and women in dozens of countries around the world also believe that a woman should have the right to work outside the home at any job for which she is qualified (88% in Indonesia, 72% in Egypt and even 78% in Saudi Arabia), and to vote without interference from family members (87% in Indonesia, 91% in Egypt, 98% in Lebanon).

    Many charge that Islam encourages violence more than other faiths, but studies show that Muslims around the world are at least as likely as Americans to condemn attacks on civilians. Polls show that 6% of the American public thinks attacks in which civilians are targets are “completely justified.” In Saudi Arabia, this figure is 4%. In Lebanon and Iran, it’s 2%.

    They don’t tell us how they know any of this. What’s the sources? What studies?

    Gerald A (b9214e)

  22. “Islam is no more predisposed towards violence or peace than Christianity is. We get along with plenty of Muslim countries all over the world.”

    Really? Why not ask the 8-year old Yemeni girl whose father forced her into marriage with a 30-year old man who raped her repeatedly (his right as her husband)whether Islam is a predisposed toward peace.

    Then ask yourself the last time you heard of a Christian parent in America forcing their 8 year old into marriage with a 30 year old man – and the law of the land permitted it.

    Dana (b4a26c)

  23. So Gallup has a Center for Muslim Studies? And the head pollster is a veiled Muslim woman with an MBA, no less, and famous “non-partisan” John Esposito, recipient of Muslim millions. What a coinky-dink that their “study” shows such wonderful opinions on the part of the world’s Muslims!

    I wonder who runs the Gallup Center for Christians or Jews…

    Patricia (f56a97)

  24. “Really? Why not ask the 8-year old Yemeni girl whose father forced her into marriage with a 30-year old man who raped her repeatedly (his right as her husband)whether Islam is a predisposed toward peace.”

    Are we in the texas thread?

    stef (394243)

  25. stef, why don’t you report on the raid on the Yemeni compound that captured the 30-year-old man and freed the 8-year-old girl ?

    Oh, I forgot. No raid, just a divorce.

    You guys are too much.

    Mike K (86bddb)

  26. The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 04/16/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.

    David M (447675)

  27. If it’s all the same, your trolls, Pat, will probably be on the next plane to take up residence in a muslim country.

    And I think at least one of the Baldwins hasn’t seen fit to honor his 2004 commitment so if you can make an extra stop…………..

    Sweetie (2fd7f7)

  28. “of course we are peaceful, and we will roast your stomachs in hell if you say otherwise!”

    not Bagdad Bob (5dfc6c)


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