Patterico's Pontifications


Democratic Debate in Philly (Updated)

Filed under: 2008 Election — DRJ @ 7:08 pm

[Guest post by DRJ]

I just got in and haven’t seen any of the debate. I hope I missed some fireworks.

Add your comments here and tell me what I missed.

UPDATE: Here’s some post-debate analysis from Marc Ambinder at The Atlantic and NBC’s Chuck Todd.


36 Responses to “Democratic Debate in Philly (Updated)”

  1. you didn’t miss a thing. McQ at QandO did some blogging on it, but really, what dod you THINK those two have said?

    Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec)

  2. Did you watch it? I read about it at the Politico blog but I didn’t see any of it.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  3. Clinton cleaned his clock, but they were both terrible when it came to the issues.

    Mike Lief (e6260e)

  4. If you can catch the late night rerun of Larry King, I’d be interested in your opinion. I didn’t watch the debate, but I did see five minutes or so of that. He had on some of the FDLS mothers. The one I heard speaking–well, it struck me as odd. She was talking about the raid and the state taking away her child, and yet–she spoke in more of a monotone than I do, and with fewer gestures than I use, which is saying a great deal. I suppose she might be on the spectrum, but even if is, it seemed a remarkable lack of emotion. Which is why I’d like your opinion, if possible.

    kishnevi (3806de)

  5. Thanks, Mike. I agree with your post on the oil industry. Too bad Obama and Clinton don’t see it the way we do.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  6. I think Dinglebarry’s kool-aid drinkers are pulling a page from the Paultards and packing the Drudge poll to have Obamalamdingdong ahead around 60% to 40%. Haven’t seen the reaction at Huffington, Kos or DU. Righty blogs opine that Hillary whupped his asp.

    madmax333 (4bbddc)

  7. Kishnevi,

    I didn’t see Larry King but I did see 5 FLDS mothers on Fox News program with Greta. They had the same affect you describe but I don’t think it was a natural behavior. It seemed conditioned, almost like a Stepford wife.

    I think their demeanor was conditioned rather than a natural response because of the change in their behavior when Greta asked the following question: “Have you ever seen girls at the compound who were 11-15 years old and pregnant?” The 2 who responded were clearly uncomfortable and they tried to avoid answering the question. Instead, they both resorted to Clintonian parsing, i.e., (I’m paraphrasing) “My daughters are clean and pure and that’s all I know” or “I don’t know for sure how old anyone is so I can’t say I ever saw anyone like that.”

    In other words, it seemed to me that the facade of innocent and grieving mothers seemed to slip as they struggled to answer that question.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  8. They did the same thing to a similar question on LKL, but he kept asking the question until finally one of them said something in the nature of a general denial. (Only for a denial it was a pretty weak one.)

    I agree that it was probably conditioned. This woman expressed no emotion over the fact that the state had taken her child from her, and she may well never see the kid again.

    kishnevi (3806de)

  9. I saw Flora Jessop (who escaped Colorado City cult 15 years ago) tonight on Fox explain that the women are put the ropes before ever speaking to the public. In this sort of situation they basically are told verbatim what to say, word for word. The trump card the men have is they will let these women go at any time, but they will never see their children again. Ms. Jessop said that they were completely given over to the belief of eternal damnation and separation from their children if they misspeak or misstep. And she said mothers like them do believe there is anything wrong with minors becoming wives and subsequent molestation that takes place. They sincerely believe it is their calling.

    p.s. I apologize if this is thread hijacking. I took #7 comments as a segueway.

    Dana (dcb5d2)

  10. I’m sorry, should have said, “And she said mothers like them do not believe there is anything wrong with minors becoming wives…”

    Dana (dcb5d2)

  11. I’m sure the mothers are emotional at what’s happened and some people handle pressure better than others. Still, the way they avoided answering that question makes them look more like liars than stoics.

    Dana – Don’t worry about thread-jacking. That never bothers me. We talk about what we want to talk about.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  12. Re: the debate, I read that they both Obama and Clinton promised not to raise taxes on people making under $200K a year. If that happens, how will all those Ivy League graduates making $200K+ manage to pay their students loans?

    DRJ (a431ca)

  13. Short version: raise taxes, surrender, free medicine, Sharpton on the Supreme Court. OK, made that last one up.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  14. Thanks, Kevin. I’m glad I missed it.

    DRJ (a431ca)

  15. I have to agree with the Stepford wives analogy. They seems programmed and when pressed with a solid question, kind of stumbled appearing not to know what to say. Kind of like Obama’s “I was not in the church when Rev. Wright was taking about how much he hates whites, Jews and America.”

    Did anyone notice how all of the women sat with their hands folded in the laps? All of them. Their posture was all the same. Their expressions were all the same. Their children have been taken away and none of them were crying. One woman on Greta Van Sustern’s program ( they were standing for that interview) said she had teenaged children, the ones that were pure, but she looked 60.

    There is something really wrong in Eldorado and it ain’t with the townsfolk or the Texas authorities.

    retire05 (485128)

  16. Gee, that McCain is looking more like a Republican every day.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  17. On the debate – big news is that Dems finally got asked some nasty / tough / hard / cheapshot / important questions that are the standard fare for Repub candidates, not to mention Repub Presidents.

    All the whining just shows how pampered by the media the Dems have been, and also explains why they have two empty suits standing up there mouthing platitudes, pandering like crazy, and trying to get elected based on gender and race.

    That Karma, she is such a bitch!

    sherlock (b4bbcc)

  18. Allahpundit has a round up of leftie snivelling which means that Barack He-Whose-Middle-Name-Must-Not-Be-Mentioned Obama did not come off well.

    nk (6b7d4f)

  19. Kevin…
    Hell, almost any Dem from the Scoop Jackson wing of the party looks like a Republican now.

    Another Drew (f9dd2c)

  20. “McCain won”

    – Beldar

    That’s a phrase we won’t be hearing often over the next 8 months or so…

    Leviticus (b987b0)

  21. Drudge thinks it’s news that ABC did eight closeups of Chelsea during the debate? Was Michelle America-Overcooked-My-Steak Obama there?

    nk (6b7d4f)

  22. nk – I think Michelle was here in Indy, yelling at, I mean talking to some school kids.

    I watched the entire debate. To summarize. I already answered that. I was not there. I surrender in Iraq. I will surrender quicker. No, I will. Screw the Generals. I will talk to ahmadinnerjacket. I won’t, but we will use diplomacy. I will not raise taxes on anyone. I will tax the holy hell out of the rich. it is all the Republicans fault.

    JD (5f0e11)

  23. Good summation, you definitely hit the high spots there.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  24. There’s a wonderful article in the WSJ today about those two and the Second Amendment.

    Imagine an election race of Pat Robertson versus James Dobson, each of them appearing at organic grocery stores and Starbucks throughout Massachusetts, with each candidate insisting that he alone deserves the vote of gay-marriage advocates.

    Kevin Murphy (805c5b)

  25. I love this line at the title of a link at Glenn Reynolds’ “Welcome to the big leagues, rookie.”

    SPQR (26be8b)

  26. Malkin has links to the Dems ‘whine and Geez’ over the questions that George and Charlie asked.Turnabout is fairplay. Heh.

    paul from Fl (47918a)

  27. Some are noticing that Obama is now wearing a flag lapel pin.

    Clinton or Obama … the Democrats really have a selection of two tools.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  28. SPQR – I missed one. They each vowed to tax the bejeesus out of any corporation that dares to make money, and capital gains taxes? Baracky was a force to be reckoned with.

    JD (5f0e11)

  29. JD, I figure that their performance is likely to be worth a 5% drop in the value of every American’s retirement portfolio as they scare Wall Street by pandering to the plebian desire to have more bread and circuses.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  30. Where’s the Katrina Donations Rev. Wright collected?

    No one has asked Obama where the CASH donations to his church went to. It was curious that donations were to be cash or checks written to the church. Is this where Wright got the money for his retirement home? This smacks of usual Chicago/Daley Machine corruption.

    PCD (5ebd0e)

  31. PCD wrote: No one has asked Obama where the CASH donations to his church went to. It was curious that donations were to be cash or checks written to the church. Is this where Wright got the money for his retirement home? This smacks of usual Chicago/Daley Machine corruption.

    Excellent questions. But to be fair, those are questions for Wright, not for Obama.

    L.N. Smithee (e1f2bf)

  32. L.N.,

    As a Federal Official who had repeatedly called for more money for Katrina Victims and for Louisana, Obama, should be the first questioning Wright were the money went. If I went to a church and the pastor called for cash donations, I’d be asking where they went.

    When I was living in Orange County, CA, and the County Supervisors increased taxes to raise money to loan to the Treasurer to invest for more spending revenues, I sat down with the Chairman of the Supervisors, Bill Steiner, at church and told him it was a bad idea and discussed with him at length. At the Grand Jury investigating the OC Bankruptcy, Bill mentioned me and our conversation when the DA asked Bill if anyone questioned the scheme and where the money was going.

    Where was Obama? Sleeping in the pews?

    PCD (5ebd0e)

  33. PCD wrote: As a Federal Official who had repeatedly called for more money for Katrina Victims and for Louisana, Obama, should be the first questioning Wright were the money went. If I went to a church and the pastor called for cash donations, I’d be asking where they went.

    Agreed. But while Atlas Shrugs — in a great display of investigative blogging — has thusfar failed to track down any Katrina donations from TUCC, it is not yet an established fact that they were misappropriated or out-and-out stolen.

    However, once the question has been put to Wright or his successor, and an unsatisfactory response (or non-response) is given, that is when it becomes Obama’s problem. But not, IMHO, a moment before.

    L.N. Smithee (e1f2bf)

  34. LN

    I tried a fairly high profile case in the Northern District of Illinois with numerous tentacles, but one piece of this case involved a restaurant/bar.

    The problem for both sides, stemmed from the fact of the daily transactions…in cash.

    Proof is rarely absolute in cases involving cash transactions. I suspect (without knowing), that the problems surrounding where the cash went (or didn’t go) will be the same in this instance.

    I have not researched the rules with respect to 501c3 MAKING donations and how they must be recorded.

    Generally, records should be kept for 3 years and the annual return with attachments should be made public. Depending upon when they suggest they made their collections and donations…those should be included, although they may not be line items, but rather, compilation reports which would be harder to decipher from an evidentiary standpoint.

    Tracing cash taken in, it is virtually impossible to tell if the books are “cooked” without a whistleblower from the congregation or staff of the church. Tracing cash OUT…should be easier…but, not necessarily easy.

    If no receipts for contribution were given for any cash donation, there may not even exist a record to reflect any particular payment.

    However, failure to keep adequate records…may, might or could…place the 501c3 in a position where substantial recordkeeping problems place in peril the exempt status of the church.

    cfbleachers (4040c7)

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