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	<title>Comments on: From the &#8220;Upsetting My Readers&#8221; File: How to Analyze Global Warming</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: chas</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-347213</link>
		<dc:creator>chas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-347213</guid>
		<description>Just had to post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.americanprogressaction.org/progressreport&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this. &lt;/a&gt;we cant dispel global warming myths w/ a cold day yet they scream &quot;global warming kills&quot; every storm that happens</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just had to post <a href="http://www.americanprogressaction.org/progressreport" title="" rel="nofollow">this. </a>we cant dispel global warming myths w/ a cold day yet they scream &#8220;global warming kills&#8221; every storm that happens</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Curtis</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323922</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Curtis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323922</guid>
		<description>There was a conference in New York just this week with over 200 internationally known scientists who disagree with global warming being man made.

http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm

Take a read then explain where these scientists A) are corporate schills, or B) are delusional and credible. 

Remember Global warming is a theory that has not been proven. The computer models have not even been able to predict the past with any degree of accuracy, so why would anyone trust them to predict the future?

Personally, I recycle because it makes economic sense. I drive a fuel efficient car because the cost of gas is one of the single largest items in my budget. 

But, after reading hundreds of articles, research papers and theses, I have to say that the vast majority of GW alarmists don&#039;t offer their data and testing methodologies up for peer review. You are supposed to take their word for the validity and accuracy of their data and methods. Also, I find it disingenuous to dismiss the findings of anyone who has ever accepted money from industry (energy companies, manufacturing, mining, etc.) but accept as gospel the findings of people whose entire funding, and the continuation of their funding is reliant upon the results of their research. Most of these scientists are being paid by government grants and grants from various &quot;interested parties&quot;. These include large political donors who have a vested interest in the outcome of the research. 

Seems that some people want to claim that there is a &quot;consensus&quot; that GW is real and man made. The last time there was a consensus on scientific matters, the belief was that the world was flat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a conference in New York just this week with over 200 internationally known scientists who disagree with global warming being man made.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm</a></p>
<p>Take a read then explain where these scientists A) are corporate schills, or B) are delusional and credible. </p>
<p>Remember Global warming is a theory that has not been proven. The computer models have not even been able to predict the past with any degree of accuracy, so why would anyone trust them to predict the future?</p>
<p>Personally, I recycle because it makes economic sense. I drive a fuel efficient car because the cost of gas is one of the single largest items in my budget. </p>
<p>But, after reading hundreds of articles, research papers and theses, I have to say that the vast majority of GW alarmists don&#8217;t offer their data and testing methodologies up for peer review. You are supposed to take their word for the validity and accuracy of their data and methods. Also, I find it disingenuous to dismiss the findings of anyone who has ever accepted money from industry (energy companies, manufacturing, mining, etc.) but accept as gospel the findings of people whose entire funding, and the continuation of their funding is reliant upon the results of their research. Most of these scientists are being paid by government grants and grants from various &#8220;interested parties&#8221;. These include large political donors who have a vested interest in the outcome of the research. </p>
<p>Seems that some people want to claim that there is a &#8220;consensus&#8221; that GW is real and man made. The last time there was a consensus on scientific matters, the belief was that the world was flat.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Levine</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323576</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Levine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323576</guid>
		<description>BTW - 

Let&#039;s not forget that the &#039;scientific community&#039; already tried to scare us a year ago by predicting that 2007 would be the &quot;warmest year on record&quot;.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070104-warmest-year.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW &#8211; </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not forget that the &#8217;scientific community&#8217; already tried to scare us a year ago by predicting that 2007 would be the &#8220;warmest year on record&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070104-warmest-year.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070104-warmest-year.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Justin Levine</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323575</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Levine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323575</guid>
		<description>Here is the challenge that this year&#039;s temperature drop poses - 

The global warming alarmists (for lack of a better term) have argued that there is a direct correlation between the amount of greenhouse gases and the Earth&#039;s temperature. The more greenhouse gases - the warmer the Earth will become.

Nobody I know of doubts that there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere this year than there has been in past years this decade. Therefore, if all other factors are constant, 2007 should have been the warmest year on record. Yet it wasn&#039;t. Why? 

You could naturally argue that all other factors AREN&#039;T constant, and that this year&#039;s record temperature drop was due to natural forces. But if you make that argument, then you would have to conclude that this year&#039;s temperature drop would have been EVEN FAR GREATER had it not been for the greenhouse gas warming effect. In other words, we would have had a one-year MEGA-temperature drop that would have far eclipsed anything our records could have contemplated. Then we would need to start asking ourselves why this happened.

Since most expect the amount of greenhouse gases to increase even more overall in 2008, would anyone care to wager what the climate change will be this year? Even if it inches up a bit relative to 2007, the temperature will still be lower than compared to say 2005. So relative to that time we would still have a cooling &#039;trend&#039; even though there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. You would need an even larger record-shattering one year jump in atmospheric temps in order to continue the alarmist heating trend.  &quot;Trends&quot; are only defined by what (arbitrary) starting point you decide on. If you chose 2005 as the starting point for a trend, we will likely be in an overall cooling trend for the next several years (even if we experience a slight up-tick in warming compared to rather cool year of 2007).

Either way, this one year alone shatters the concept of &quot;More greenhouse gases automaticialy equals more warming&quot; theory - unless you are prepared to argue that 2007 would have experienced a drop that was even far larger than the one we already experienced had it not been for greenhouse gases. That seems to be a rather dubious theory to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the challenge that this year&#8217;s temperature drop poses &#8211; </p>
<p>The global warming alarmists (for lack of a better term) have argued that there is a direct correlation between the amount of greenhouse gases and the Earth&#8217;s temperature. The more greenhouse gases &#8211; the warmer the Earth will become.</p>
<p>Nobody I know of doubts that there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere this year than there has been in past years this decade. Therefore, if all other factors are constant, 2007 should have been the warmest year on record. Yet it wasn&#8217;t. Why? </p>
<p>You could naturally argue that all other factors AREN&#8217;T constant, and that this year&#8217;s record temperature drop was due to natural forces. But if you make that argument, then you would have to conclude that this year&#8217;s temperature drop would have been EVEN FAR GREATER had it not been for the greenhouse gas warming effect. In other words, we would have had a one-year MEGA-temperature drop that would have far eclipsed anything our records could have contemplated. Then we would need to start asking ourselves why this happened.</p>
<p>Since most expect the amount of greenhouse gases to increase even more overall in 2008, would anyone care to wager what the climate change will be this year? Even if it inches up a bit relative to 2007, the temperature will still be lower than compared to say 2005. So relative to that time we would still have a cooling &#8216;trend&#8217; even though there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. You would need an even larger record-shattering one year jump in atmospheric temps in order to continue the alarmist heating trend.  &#8220;Trends&#8221; are only defined by what (arbitrary) starting point you decide on. If you chose 2005 as the starting point for a trend, we will likely be in an overall cooling trend for the next several years (even if we experience a slight up-tick in warming compared to rather cool year of 2007).</p>
<p>Either way, this one year alone shatters the concept of &#8220;More greenhouse gases automaticialy equals more warming&#8221; theory &#8211; unless you are prepared to argue that 2007 would have experienced a drop that was even far larger than the one we already experienced had it not been for greenhouse gases. That seems to be a rather dubious theory to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Leviticus</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323553</link>
		<dc:creator>Leviticus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323553</guid>
		<description>&quot;ADA - If things get as bad as you suggest, there won’t be any Ph.Ds because we won’t have the luxury of graduate schools.&quot;

-DRJ

Aaah, that&#039;s where you&#039;re wrong, DRJ.  
In the drought-ravaged future, &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; will have a Ph.D. - from the &lt;i&gt;University of Hard Knocks&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;ADA &#8211; If things get as bad as you suggest, there won’t be any Ph.Ds because we won’t have the luxury of graduate schools.&#8221;</p>
<p>-DRJ</p>
<p>Aaah, that&#8217;s where you&#8217;re wrong, DRJ.<br />
In the drought-ravaged future, <i>everyone</i> will have a Ph.D. &#8211; from the <i>University of Hard Knocks</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: LarryD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323522</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323522</guid>
		<description>The temprature drop isn&#039;t just this winter, but for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/january-2008-4-sources-say-globally-cooler-in-the-past-12-months/&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;last 12 months&lt;/a&gt;.  Even Dr. Hansen&#039;s GISS reflects this.   This also happens to correlate with the low level of sunspot activity over the same period (cycle #23 ending, cycle #24 late in getting started).  &lt;a href=&quot;http://home.earthlink.net/~ponderthemaunderf/&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Current thinking&lt;/a&gt; is that it&#039;s the solar magnetic effects (which are reflected by sunspot activity), when the solar magnetic field is weak, more cosmic radiation reaches Earth, prompting cloud formation, which increases Earth&#039;s albedo.

You&#039;ll notice that the AGW crowd has stopped talking about &quot;Global Warming&quot;, now they use the phrase &quot;Climate Change&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The temprature drop isn&#8217;t just this winter, but for the <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/january-2008-4-sources-say-globally-cooler-in-the-past-12-months/" title="" rel="nofollow">last 12 months</a>.  Even Dr. Hansen&#8217;s GISS reflects this.   This also happens to correlate with the low level of sunspot activity over the same period (cycle #23 ending, cycle #24 late in getting started).  <a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~ponderthemaunderf/" title="" rel="nofollow">Current thinking</a> is that it&#8217;s the solar magnetic effects (which are reflected by sunspot activity), when the solar magnetic field is weak, more cosmic radiation reaches Earth, prompting cloud formation, which increases Earth&#8217;s albedo.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll notice that the AGW crowd has stopped talking about &#8220;Global Warming&#8221;, now they use the phrase &#8220;Climate Change&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: rhodeymark</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323509</link>
		<dc:creator>rhodeymark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323509</guid>
		<description>And despite what Psyberian says - you best get to know Gavin Schmidt a little better before you blithely cast in your lot. Do you stop by Realclimate much, Patterico?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And despite what Psyberian says &#8211; you best get to know Gavin Schmidt a little better before you blithely cast in your lot. Do you stop by Realclimate much, Patterico?</p>
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		<title>By: rhodeymark</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323508</link>
		<dc:creator>rhodeymark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323508</guid>
		<description>Serenity Now - kinda like the way tree rings match temperature reconstructions up until they diverge? And the graphs are truncated to excise the divergence (oh wait - that&#039;s unique). 
Let&#039;s also not forget that 1) the Sun does more than provide the TSI that you Googled, and 2) the Earth is a giant heat sink that doesn&#039;t instantly respond to much of anything not catastrophic (see AlGore&#039;s temp/CO2 charts).
I do give you points for looking for data though, keep it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serenity Now &#8211; kinda like the way tree rings match temperature reconstructions up until they diverge? And the graphs are truncated to excise the divergence (oh wait &#8211; that&#8217;s unique).<br />
Let&#8217;s also not forget that 1) the Sun does more than provide the TSI that you Googled, and 2) the Earth is a giant heat sink that doesn&#8217;t instantly respond to much of anything not catastrophic (see AlGore&#8217;s temp/CO2 charts).<br />
I do give you points for looking for data though, keep it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Psyberian</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323488</link>
		<dc:creator>Psyberian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 13:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323488</guid>
		<description>The amount of resistance displayed from commenters here on one small, incontrovertible point made in Patterico’s post is alarming.  

Never accept a fact unless it is verified by your ideology!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amount of resistance displayed from commenters here on one small, incontrovertible point made in Patterico’s post is alarming.  </p>
<p>Never accept a fact unless it is verified by your ideology!</p>
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		<title>By: Serenity Now</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/comment-page-2/#comment-323479</link>
		<dc:creator>Serenity Now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2008/03/02/from-the-upsetting-my-readers-file-how-to-analyze-global-warming/#comment-323479</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;Google-Fu&lt;/b&gt;: I did a Google search for “Graph of Earth Temperatures”, downloaded thegraph and saved it as a jpeg. Next, I repeated the search but this time for “Graph of Solar Output”, once again downloading and saving the graph as a jpeg. Then it became a simple matter of opening both graphs and comparing the data by timeline. With the exception of one spike in solar activity (which I took to be a rather significant flare that Earth’s temperature did NOT follow), the Earth’s temperature pretty well followed solar activity. That’s when I considered the science settled. Who should I believe? Al Gore or my lying eyes?&lt;/blockquote&gt;They track closely until about 1985, when surface temperatures continue climbing and solar output drops.

- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/solar/temp_vs_spot_irradiance.gif&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;graph&lt;/A&gt;
- &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1701587/posts&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Reuters story&lt;/A&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><b>Google-Fu</b>: I did a Google search for “Graph of Earth Temperatures”, downloaded thegraph and saved it as a jpeg. Next, I repeated the search but this time for “Graph of Solar Output”, once again downloading and saving the graph as a jpeg. Then it became a simple matter of opening both graphs and comparing the data by timeline. With the exception of one spike in solar activity (which I took to be a rather significant flare that Earth’s temperature did NOT follow), the Earth’s temperature pretty well followed solar activity. That’s when I considered the science settled. Who should I believe? Al Gore or my lying eyes?</p></blockquote>
<p>They track closely until about 1985, when surface temperatures continue climbing and solar output drops.</p>
<p>- <a href="http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/gw/solar/temp_vs_spot_irradiance.gif" rel="nofollow">graph</a><br />
- <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1701587/posts" rel="nofollow">Reuters story</a></p>
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