Patterico's Pontifications

1/7/2008

Lethal Injection Case Heard Today

Filed under: Constitutional Law,Crime,General — Patterico @ 12:03 am



The Supreme Court today hears arguments on whether lethal injection as practiced in Kentucky is constitutional, or cruel and unusual punishment. Basic background is here; a much more detailed debate is here. Although the Court is considering only the cocktail combination used by Kentucky, it’s the same combination used by the vast majority of states. If the Court declares it unconstitutional, the decision will not legally mean an end to the death penalty, but rather that the states will have to develop a different protocol.

The current protocol used in Kentucky (and 37 of 39 states with the death penalty) is the product of historical accident — the result of a procedure developed by an Oklahoma medical examiner without any particular expertise in the area. Most states simply piggybacked on his procedure, meaning that most states use a procedure that provides far more risk of pain than the procedure used to put animals to death.

There are several ironies at work here.

One is that, if death penalty opponents are right, the procedure they pushed as a painless alternative to other forms of execution may well have resulted in far more painful executions for several hundred inmates.

Another is that, thanks to the bizarre Eighth Amendment jurisprudence that the Supreme Court has developed, Kentucky’s lethal injection procedure is less likely to be declared unconstitutional precisely because states have blindly copied the Oklahoma procedure, and stubbornly stuck with it in the face of countless attacks by abolitionists. You see, if states had started to move away from the cocktail combination used in Kentucky, the justices would be able to point to this movement as evidence of “evolving standards” in the various states. (And the cases of the past few years clearly show that it doesn’t take much movement to convince the liberal members of the Court that standards are “evolving” — as long as the Justices like the direction of the evolution.) But the pigheaded refusal of states to fix their procedures — even though it would seemingly be fairly easy and would minimize the potential for pain — deprives the Justices of this argument. I look forward to reading the oral argument transcript to see whether this irony is explored by the Justices and the lawyers.

The bottom line here is that, even if the method used causes pain, I don’t think it rises to the level of cruel and unusual punishment. But my opinion doesn’t really matter; I guess, as with so many other issues, the only person’s opinion that does matter is that of Justice Kennedy.

If I have time, I’ll revisit this tonight or tomorrow, after the transcript becomes available.

23 Responses to “Lethal Injection Case Heard Today”

  1. being an above average 91Q, i can think of several IV concoctions that would quickly and painlessly take down a scumbag, all using everyday drugs which are both inexpensive, readily available and who’s efficacy is unchallenged……

    first some midazolam, for the calming effect, then some “Milk of Amnesia” (propofol)to take the patient down out of consciousness.

    at this point, you could either titrate the propofol up until respirations stopped, or add succinylcholine or another drug from the general class to stop respirations. another alternative would be to use a lidocaine/KCl bolus drip to stop the heart after the initial sedation.

    regardless, i wish the whiners were half as concerned about the pain caused to the victims and their families as they are about the scum. what’s wrong with a firing squad?

    redc1c4 (48a20b)

  2. It’s pretty freaking hard to kill someone without doing at least some mearsure of violence to them. We have pain receptors to detect that stuff.

    Is it really cruel to put someone in a bit of pain? Why? Are we going to have to move to utterly sudden and violent ways of killing to minimize pain? I’m quite sure most of hte pain is mental anguish that last for years before death. Should we just not tell the convict of his sentence and surprise shoot him if his appeals fail (that he was unaware of to boot)?

    No. We should accept that working hard labor, serving probation, being executed, all involve pain. Shoot him up with morphine and electrocute him. The electric chair served as a powerful icon of deterrence. I think it really made an impact on the minds of some criminals. This injection stuff isn’t sexy enough to deter.

    Jem (9e390b)

  3. Second thought: why not just give these killers an overdose of heroin? That’s supposed to feel good, right? And it would send a message to kids that drugs kill. And I’m sure we pick up drugs off teh streets, right? We can use those. Shoot a pint of it into the guy’s veins.

    We’re making this more complicated than it needs to be.

    Jem (9e390b)

  4. One is that, if death penalty opponents are right, the procedure they pushed as a painless alternative to other forms of execution may well have resulted in far more painful executions for several hundred inmates.

    It isn’t. DP opponents are going to find fault in any and all procedures. I am appalled that any court would fall for their junk science arguments.

    tired (ed01cd)

  5. Should we just not tell the convict of his sentence and surprise shoot him if his appeals fail (that he was unaware of to boot)?

    Ha ha ha. Then the argument would be that subjecting a prisoner to his execution without notice is cruel and unusual.

    tired (ed01cd)

  6. Isn’t this a common execution technique? If so, it isn’t unusual, and therefore is not cruel and unusual.

    I’ve still never found anyone making that simple argument about the constitutionality of the death penalty. The word and seems very important to me; a punishment must meet both criteria to be considered unconstitutional. Can the death penalty really be considered unusual?

    Justin (747191)

  7. I’ve been told that putting one in a “persistent vegetative state” and then starving them to death produces a painless, often euphoric outcome.

    Techie (ed20d9)

  8. The problem with death penalty opponents as that they are not arguing in good faith. Ask me what crimes for which I do not support the death penalty. Rape would be one and even that of a child – making it a death penalty case places an incentive on the perp to kill the witness. Ask Jean Prejean which crimes she would find the death penalty appropriate, and the answer is none. So nothing to negotiate or discuss, because there is no common ground.

    baslimthecripple (2d63f1)

  9. I tried to discuss a recent grant of certiorari by the Supreme Court with two state judges. They said that it would be pointless to engage in a legal analysis of the case according to construction and precedent because the Supreme Court will not. It will just be “what they say”.

    nk (4bb3c1)

  10. Guys! Who cares if this causes them pain?? Let’s all take a moment and try to remember all of the endearing pain this has caused the friends & family of each death, that they will now live with forever.

    The reality of this is, we should be torturing these criminals before they die – Not letting them leave silently!! Jesus!!

    MadDog (fe0704)

  11. It is all going to come down to the Supreme Court’s definition of “AND”. If they treat it as “OR”, as most liberals do, you’ll see a ruling against this leathal cocktail. Frankly, I think the method of execution ought to be a 12GA slug to the back of the head. The criminal won’t know what hit them until they have Satan explaining the working of Hell to them.

    PCD (5c49b0)

  12. Ask Jean Prejean which crimes she would find the death penalty appropriate, and the answer is none.

    You’re right. Which also explains the opponents tendency to play fast and loose with the facts.

    tired (6a7a53)

  13. I wish the anti DP bunch would just stick to that argument. Once one is convicted and run through the 20 yrs of appeals and still can’t get out of it, then what does it matter if it hurts a bit?

    BTW a bullet to the back of the head is completely painless and quick!

    Some of these folks should get the same sort of death they bestowed upon their victims. Amputations, cuts, beating, drinking drain cleaners and the such. For some it should hurt and hurt horrifically as well.

    TC (1cf350)

  14. Do you know why society is going to hell? I will tell you why because all society does is focus on the NEGATIVE, never do they focus on positive stuff. It’s always can’t this fight that, kill that. That costs too much we can’t do that. I WANT to see some good news. That person lived and has a happy life. I really want to good news that is why I hardly ever watch the news cause all I see is this crap. I want to put a positive look on my life so I can attract the things I WANT not those that I DON’T want. So, before all of you out there make you snide comments about the death penalty consider this. IS IT REALLY WORTH YOUR ENERGY?

    Phillipe Farneti (aeccf3)

  15. IS IT REALLY WORTH YOUR ENERGY?

    Yes.

    tired (6a7a53)

  16. I am sorry you feel that way.

    Phillipe Farneti (aeccf3)

  17. I’m sorry you don’t.

    tired (6a7a53)

  18. I just have enough on my plate without worrying and being negative and focusing on negative shit. Like attract likes, no matter what you may think. I am done here and I will post no further.

    Phillipe Farneti (aeccf3)

  19. Like attract likes, no matter what you may think.

    Nope. I’ve worked in the criminal justice system for over 20 years and have never committed a crime or had the desire to do so.

    I am done here and I will post no further.

    A quick google of your name reveals that you are the opposite of what you claim you want to be. So, posting no further may not be such a bad idea.

    tired (6a7a53)

  20. Thanks for the link, tired. I thought the state missed a golden opportunity when the prisoner raised the issue of animal euthanasia. It should have pointed out the methods of animal butchery, which are far more numerous than animal euthanasia, and which are quick and painless — such as a hard blow with a sledgehammer between the eyes and then a quick slice with a sharp knife through the neck arteries.

    nk (4bb3c1)

  21. Guillotine! Guillotine!

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  22. How about the gas chamer for all those liberal lawyers i mean look how long it took them to exicute ROBERT ALTON HARRIS and all those stupid liberal bleedinghearts staging their stupid protests i mean when they convicted CHARLIE STARKWEATHER he was exicuted with in a year of his conviction and no stupid 14 to 15 years of stupid appeals

    krazy kagu (484aa9)


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