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	<title>Comments on: My Proposed Correction for Tim Rutten&#8217;s Column on the Beauchamp Affair</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-2/#comment-295862</link>
		<dc:creator>TCO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295862</guid>
		<description>Pat:  I totally disagree with your &quot;test&quot;.  Sure Alphie is being a bit sophistic (adj?), but one can call him on that and engage by forcing him to make explicit assertions, by refuting the Johnie did it so Frankie can argument, etc. etc.  

BUT WHAT&#039;s totally wrong with your test is that the running dog nitwits on our side do crap posts all the time.  Take Chaos or similar low-middlebrow Limbaugh listeners.  

And alphie actually had a decent point (once I got over my reaction to his over-terseness) that your first &quot;error&quot; is really the weakest.  And really more of an error of rhetoric than knowledge of the subject (an error none the less, but still an insight to note differences.)

FREE ALPHIE!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat:  I totally disagree with your &#8220;test&#8221;.  Sure Alphie is being a bit sophistic (adj?), but one can call him on that and engage by forcing him to make explicit assertions, by refuting the Johnie did it so Frankie can argument, etc. etc.  </p>
<p>BUT WHAT&#8217;s totally wrong with your test is that the running dog nitwits on our side do crap posts all the time.  Take Chaos or similar low-middlebrow Limbaugh listeners.  </p>
<p>And alphie actually had a decent point (once I got over my reaction to his over-terseness) that your first &#8220;error&#8221; is really the weakest.  And really more of an error of rhetoric than knowledge of the subject (an error none the less, but still an insight to note differences.)</p>
<p>FREE ALPHIE!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: corona</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-2/#comment-295819</link>
		<dc:creator>corona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295819</guid>
		<description>always, even</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>always, even</p>
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		<title>By: corona</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-2/#comment-295817</link>
		<dc:creator>corona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295817</guid>
		<description>I never get tired of alway being right.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.weeklystandard.com/Weblogs/TWSFP/TWSFPView.asp#2906&quot; title=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never get tired of alway being right.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Weblogs/TWSFP/TWSFPView.asp#2906" title="" rel="nofollow">link</a></p>
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		<title>By: SPQR</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-2/#comment-295610</link>
		<dc:creator>SPQR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295610</guid>
		<description>GP, those three titles refer to three different documents located in two different files originally posted on Drudge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GP, those three titles refer to three different documents located in two different files originally posted on Drudge.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Jackson</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-1/#comment-295607</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295607</guid>
		<description>Alpho reminds me of the Rosenburg defenders.  But its nice to know we still have true believers with us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alpho reminds me of the Rosenburg defenders.  But its nice to know we still have true believers with us.</p>
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		<title>By: gp</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-1/#comment-295587</link>
		<dc:creator>gp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295587</guid>
		<description>Why are people talking about &quot;Memorandum of Record&quot; and &quot;Memorandum of Concern&quot; when the things are titled &quot;Memorandum for Commander?&quot;

BTW, the only reason I think the STB story is important is because of TNR&#039;s mishandling of it.  They should have retracted the stories months ago.  After the Glass thing, and Lee Siegel, and that other guy whose name I forgot, I&#039;d expect TNR to be super-scrupulous about the accuracy of their content and the reliability of their contributors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are people talking about &#8220;Memorandum of Record&#8221; and &#8220;Memorandum of Concern&#8221; when the things are titled &#8220;Memorandum for Commander?&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW, the only reason I think the STB story is important is because of TNR&#8217;s mishandling of it.  They should have retracted the stories months ago.  After the Glass thing, and Lee Siegel, and that other guy whose name I forgot, I&#8217;d expect TNR to be super-scrupulous about the accuracy of their content and the reliability of their contributors.</p>
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		<title>By: gp</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-1/#comment-295583</link>
		<dc:creator>gp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295583</guid>
		<description>Are there multiple versions of 3.pdf out there?

I downloaded the three PDFs from Drudge at 1:53PM CDT 10-24-2007, and still have them.
3.pdf is 3,039,940 bytes in size.
Its properties (as displayed by Adobe Reader 8) have no creation timestamp, and a mod timestamp of 8/24/2007 9:40:51AM.
The contents (indicated by page numbers of the PDF doc) are:
1-2 Memorandum for Commander, signed by William J. Johnson
3-7 Memorandum for Commander, signed by John D. Cross
8-9 Table of Contents
10 Report of Proceedings, DA1574

My guess as to why Drudge took them down: 3.pdf contains the names and unit affiliations of the soldiers interviewed by the investigators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there multiple versions of 3.pdf out there?</p>
<p>I downloaded the three PDFs from Drudge at 1:53PM CDT 10-24-2007, and still have them.<br />
3.pdf is 3,039,940 bytes in size.<br />
Its properties (as displayed by Adobe Reader <img src='http://patterico.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> have no creation timestamp, and a mod timestamp of 8/24/2007 9:40:51AM.<br />
The contents (indicated by page numbers of the PDF doc) are:<br />
1-2 Memorandum for Commander, signed by William J. Johnson<br />
3-7 Memorandum for Commander, signed by John D. Cross<br />
8-9 Table of Contents<br />
10 Report of Proceedings, DA1574</p>
<p>My guess as to why Drudge took them down: 3.pdf contains the names and unit affiliations of the soldiers interviewed by the investigators.</p>
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		<title>By: Great Banana</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-1/#comment-295580</link>
		<dc:creator>Great Banana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295580</guid>
		<description>Martin,

I may be wrong, it has been awhile, but I think I am correct.  I believe that the Commanding officer usually has the discretion to make a MOR permanent, or, as in this case, temporary, but that calling it a Memorandum of Conern versus a Memorandum of Record does not mean anything.  What matters is what the Commanding officer decides to do with it.

I could be wrong about them being the same exact thing, but I believe I am correct that people are using the two terms interchangably talking about this specific document.  Also, it would make no sense for the acknowledgment page to be a &quot;Memorandum of Record&quot; while the document itself is a &quot;Memorandum of Concern.&quot;  It&#039;s not like the acknowledgment page is going to be separately placed in someone&#039;s record w/o the main document.  That would make no sense and have no meaning.

Thus, my guess is that it was originally going to be called a &quot;Memorandum of Record&quot; and when the change to &quot;Memorandum of Concern&quot; was made, the typist did not change the heading on the acknowledgment page, the same way typist failed to change the date on the acknowledgment page.

But, ultimately, it makes no difference.  The documents have been identified by the Army as legit, and even TNR does not claim they are not authentic.  So, TNR&#039;s defenders, such as alphie, are really grasping at straws to avoid the truth in this matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin,</p>
<p>I may be wrong, it has been awhile, but I think I am correct.  I believe that the Commanding officer usually has the discretion to make a MOR permanent, or, as in this case, temporary, but that calling it a Memorandum of Conern versus a Memorandum of Record does not mean anything.  What matters is what the Commanding officer decides to do with it.</p>
<p>I could be wrong about them being the same exact thing, but I believe I am correct that people are using the two terms interchangably talking about this specific document.  Also, it would make no sense for the acknowledgment page to be a &#8220;Memorandum of Record&#8221; while the document itself is a &#8220;Memorandum of Concern.&#8221;  It&#8217;s not like the acknowledgment page is going to be separately placed in someone&#8217;s record w/o the main document.  That would make no sense and have no meaning.</p>
<p>Thus, my guess is that it was originally going to be called a &#8220;Memorandum of Record&#8221; and when the change to &#8220;Memorandum of Concern&#8221; was made, the typist did not change the heading on the acknowledgment page, the same way typist failed to change the date on the acknowledgment page.</p>
<p>But, ultimately, it makes no difference.  The documents have been identified by the Army as legit, and even TNR does not claim they are not authentic.  So, TNR&#8217;s defenders, such as alphie, are really grasping at straws to avoid the truth in this matter.</p>
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		<title>By: martin.musculus</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-1/#comment-295577</link>
		<dc:creator>martin.musculus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 18:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295577</guid>
		<description>GBanana:
	Are you *sure* that an MOC MOR are the same?  I know from the Air Force HAS 2 (well actually more than that...[grin]) types of bad paper, and LOCs (Letter Of Concern &amp; Counc. ), LORs (Letter of Record), LOAs (Letter Of [Administrative] Action), etc.

The difference, for example, between an LOC &amp; LOR, is that an LOC is removed from your record during the next PCS, but an LOR is forever... but the issuer can pull it.

I know where of I speak, having had these impinge upon my personage [grin*2]

- martin.musculus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GBanana:<br />
	Are you *sure* that an MOC MOR are the same?  I know from the Air Force HAS 2 (well actually more than that&#8230;[grin]) types of bad paper, and LOCs (Letter Of Concern &amp; Counc. ), LORs (Letter of Record), LOAs (Letter Of [Administrative] Action), etc.</p>
<p>The difference, for example, between an LOC &amp; LOR, is that an LOC is removed from your record during the next PCS, but an LOR is forever&#8230; but the issuer can pull it.</p>
<p>I know where of I speak, having had these impinge upon my personage [grin*2]</p>
<p>- martin.musculus</p>
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		<title>By: Marko</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/comment-page-1/#comment-295567</link>
		<dc:creator>Marko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2007/10/29/my-proposed-correction-for-tim-ruttens-column-on-the-beauchamp-affair/#comment-295567</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The Laddies by the banks o Nith
Wad trust his Grace wi a&#039; alphie;
But he&#039;ll sair them, as he sair&#039;d the King-
Turn tail and rin awa, alphie.&lt;/i&gt;

- adapted from Robbie Burns,  
&lt;i&gt;Up an Waun Them a&#039; Jamie&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The Laddies by the banks o Nith<br />
Wad trust his Grace wi a&#8217; alphie;<br />
But he&#8217;ll sair them, as he sair&#8217;d the King-<br />
Turn tail and rin awa, alphie.</i></p>
<p>- adapted from Robbie Burns,<br />
<i>Up an Waun Them a&#8217; Jamie</i></p>
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