Patterico's Pontifications

10/22/2007

The Very Definition of Cruel and Unusual Punishment: Reading Inane Crap Like This

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 12:03 am



Catching up on my blog reading, I see that Eugene Volokh has posted the relevant portions of the recent decision holding that conditions at the L.A. County Jail constitute cruel and unusual punishment. The reasoning ends up having some apparent precedent in the law — and yet, is shocking in its silliness. Even sillier is the sophomoric way in which it’s expressed. Here is an example:

The Constitution clearly does not allow prisoners to suffer the deprivation of adequate food or water. Just so, prisons may not deprive those in their care of a basic place to sleep — a bed; for like wearing clothing, sleeping in a bed identifies our common humanity.

That many individuals, for cultural or health reasons, choose to sleep on the floor in no way detracts from this point. A predilection for camping under the stars or the soothing touch a hard futon may have on a sore back is entirely different in kind from stripping an individual of the option of using a bed. Quite simply, that a custom of leaving inmates nowhere to sleep but the floor constitutes cruel and unusual punishment is nothing short of self-evident.

Quite simply, that this opinion is badly written is nothing short of self-evident.

UPDATE: In case you don’t click through to Volokh’s post, I should make it clear: the inmates weren’t really sleeping on the floor. They were sleeping on mattresses, which were on the floor. Apparently, this is unconstitutional.

35 Responses to “The Very Definition of Cruel and Unusual Punishment: Reading Inane Crap Like This”

  1. Sleeping on the floor is cruel and unusual punishment? Because this equates with not having food or water? This judge is a moron.

    God, I couldn’t be a lawyer, Patterico. I’d start my statement with, “Your honor, you moron…”

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  2. They will drive themselves crazy trying to define “bed.” Mattress width, length, and thickness, wood or metal frame, sheet threadcount, size and number of pillows, the specifications of acceptable fabric softeners, etc.

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  3. Geez! How do I get that minute of my life back?

    Paul (d71395)

  4. Where were these guys when I was drafted in 1969. They don’t know the half of cruel and inhuman.

    Actual (8f715f)

  5. I think we need to revise Shakespeare–replace “lawyers” with “judges.” After all, with no judges there would be no lawyers, right? So let kill all the….

    TheManTheMyth (9f3bd7)

  6. Jefferson warned us repeatedly why the judiciary would destroy the US. He was right.

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  7. For those who haven’t read the decision, some clarification is in order.

    They weren’t sleeping on the floor. They were sleeping on mattresses, which were on the floor.

    Now, I don’t think military accommodations and prison accommodations are parallel, and I’d guess that I’m an order of magnitude more sympathetic to prison condition lawsuits than most on this blog, but this looks nuts to me.

    Sleeping on an unsupported mattress on the floor? Just not so bad, I think. This is a very odd decision.

    –JRM

    JRM (355c21)

  8. JRM:

    Until I read your comment I hadn’t noticed that I hadn’t made that point clear. I just updated, thanks.

    Patterico (bad89b)

  9. Now, what kind of mattress was it?

    PosturePedic? Simmons? TempurPedic? Serta? Sealy?

    Or, was it an off-brand?

    It probably was NOT the kind that Rush sleeps on, and if everyone, even prisoners, can’t have that, there is something drastically wrong with the American Way of Life!!!!

    (and for alphie and all other humorless people, this was sarcastic and satrical….but, I guess by typing this I am digressing….)

    reff (bff229)

  10. So, build more county jails. Then the same people complaining about overcrowding will complain that building more jails is not a solution blah blah blah.

    dave (0606c0)

  11. alphie doesn’t seem to want to defend this one.

    So, a bed (constituting a mattress, box spring and frame, I guess) “identifies our common humanity”? Can an appeals court overturn with just “What a moron!” as their opinion? If I had to lose a case, I couldn’t ask for a better one to appeal.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  12. “So, build more county jails.”

    Heck, just buy some bedframes and plywood. This ruling is a classic example of CPL (Chronic Perspective Loss). Jail is supposed to be unpleasant. The idea is that you want to avoid coming back.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  13. BTW, I really don’t see how the judge missed calling incarceration “cruel and inhuman.” Not all that much room left.

    What new horrors will those jailers think of next? Uncarpeted floors? Lack of cable TV? No seconds on dessert? No cellphones? Net-nannnies on the wi-fi?

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  14. I liked then decision.

    Rehabilitation is still a goal of the criminal justice system, isn’t it?

    alphie (99bc18)

  15. Rehabilitation is still a goal of the criminal justice system, isn’t it?

    Only nominally.

    Moops (444e9b)

  16. So, explain to us, Alphie, how sleeping on a mattress sans frame is “Cruel and Unusual”?

    Techie (c003f1)

  17. alphayammerer doesn’t give a rat’s behind about the decision. He just wants grownups to pay attention to him. For your own sake, alphie, get a girfriend. Or at least a magazine.

    nk (da3e6b)

  18. Rehabilitation is still a goal of the criminal justice system, isn’t it?

    Not for pre-trial detainees. And the post conviction ones are not detained long enough for rehab.

    dave (0606c0)

  19. So, a bed (constituting a mattress, box spring and frame, I guess) “identifies our common humanity”?

    Even today, the Japanese will disagree.

    LarryD (feb78b)

  20. So at least half of the nation’s undergraduates are inflicting unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment on themselves?

    rightwingprof (ef9e0f)

  21. Having sex in a bed identifies our common humanity. Though good arguments can be made for doing it on the floor, the table, a desk, the couch . . .

    dave (0606c0)

  22. Can Patterico inform the readers what percentage of the LA County Jail population is due to the “INSANE War on Some Drugs”™

    Or even provide some raw numbers?

    Horatio (3e425e)

  23. Too bad Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County Arizona couldn’t be the Sheriff over all the country. The malcontents filing these suits would really have their knickers in a wad for being issued pink underwear and sleeping in tents on cots.

    PCD (b47ba5)

  24. Um…. I don’t know of any enlisted sailors on a ship who have more than a mattress on a steel rack.

    For that matter, I’ve been sleeping on a mattress on the floor for the past four or so years, when I can sleep at home– I tried the Japanese style, and I like it.

    It is most assuredly NOT inhumane, and if I were the type to cry racism, I might call the judge racist for insulting the humanity of the Japanese people, and all others who choose to sleep without box-springs and frames.

    Foxfier (290c52)

  25. Andrew will be along shortly to inform everybody that this treatment constitutes torture.

    daleyrocks (906622)

  26. This brave, visionary court has finally put a dark chapter of American history to rest. I speak not of our prison system, but of the more distant past:

    Now that we know Native Americans are not part of our shared humanity (they did not have mattresses in their wigwams) we know that America did nothing wrong in breaking so many Indian treaties.

    I can’t speak for the rest of you, but my conscience is assuaged.

    Daryl Herbert (4ecd4c)

  27. Yes, the ruling is a doofy one, but there’s an interesting (to me at least, since IANAL) corollary question here, towit:

    To be unconstitutional, must a punishment be:

    a) cruel AND unusual; or

    b) cruel OR unusual.

    On the surface, a) wins; that’s what the constitution says, anyway. But the judge appears to be interpreting it according to b).

    After all, there’s nothing unusual about sleeping on a mat on the floor; we’ve all done it many times. But because the judge deems it cruel, and because he is interpreting the constitution according to b), he arrives at his doofy conclusion.

    In terms of precedent, the a) vs b) distinction seems worlds more important than whether or not a mat on the floor is actually cruel or not. Debating the cruelty of the mat is a sideshow that distracts from the larger issue, no?

    The real arg here is, or should be: since all punishment is by definition cruel to at least some extent, is all punishment therefore, under b), to be deemed unconstitutional? Cuz that’s what b) means and leaving it unchallenged implies acceptance.

    ras (adf382)

  28. So, build more county jails.

    Better yet, take the extra prisoners and house them with legislators and prosecutors who support the war on drugs. I imagine that would be therapeutic for all concerned.

    Paul S. (8cbb16)

  29. Paul S. – You’ve got it backwards. House the folks with the legislators and prosecutors who oppose the war on drugs. I imagine that would be therapeutic for all concerned. Let them experience the real world outside of their bubbles.

    daleyrocks (906622)

  30. District Judge Dean D. Pregerson was the ignoranus that issued this ruling. Hw is another one of Clinton’s brilliant appointments. I’m looking forward to more like him after Hillary is elected president.

    tmac (0c909a)

  31. How funny. A huge percentage of the third world can only dream of what it must be like sleeping on a mattress, even on a floor, a dirt floor for that matter…(let alone w/three guaranteed squares a day).

    Dana (165e7a)

  32. Ironic how in jail it’s cruel & unusual punishment for a convicted criminal to sleep on the floor yet it is SOP for an infantry soldier or a Marine at times in every war to sleep on the ground for days, weeks & months during a deployment.

    Bud Dickman (2a4d4b)

  33. Too bad the judicial confirmation process does not include an affirmation that the IQ of the nominee exceeds room temperature.

    Dean D. Pregerson: Maroon of the Week!

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  34. Interesting. My National Guard unit has no billets — they are promised by 1995 — and in the meantime, the guys sleep on the floor of the drill hall or classroom.

    Mattresses?

    How do we go about getting this terrible injustice before this eminent jurist?

    On second thought, to hell with it. Just be glad we don’t take up crime to improve our accommodations.

    Kevin R.C. 'Hognose' O'Brien (88bf29)

  35. After all, there’s nothing unusual about sleeping on a mat on the floor; we’ve all done it many times. But because the judge deems it cruel, and because he is interpreting the constitution according to b), he arrives at his doofy conclusion.

    No kidding. If the “judge” really thinks the Constitution bans cruel or unusual punishment, let’s see him strike down every sentence that is unusual but not cruel.

    Xrlq (6c2116)


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