Patterico's Pontifications

10/20/2007

Baroque: The New Simple

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 1:27 pm



I’ve had this one on the back burner for a week or two. It’s the occasionally honest — but more commonly jaw-droppingly deceptive — Tim Rutten on Rush Limbaugh’s “phony soldiers” comment:

Now congressional Democrats are seeking a similar expression of disapproval for radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, who they allege insulted servicemen and women opposed to the Iraq war by calling them “phony soldiers.” (Limbaugh has a baroque explanation of what he actually meant by those words, but you probably have to be a regular listener to his show to follow it.)

I’m not a Limbaugh listener, but let me show you how simple it is to explain: Limbaugh was referring to actual phony soldiers. People who pretended to be soldiers — but weren’t.

Yeah, it’s real freakin’ baroque, Tim.

78 Responses to “Baroque: The New Simple”

  1. Yeah, like Jesse MacBeth.

    Paul (d71395)

  2. Can we expect clarity from someone who must traverse the Byzantine corridors of Spring Street?

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  3. Nice try, but a minute befor he called soldiers who are against the Iraq war “phony soldiers,” he called any Republicans who are against the Iraq war “phony Republicans.”

    alphie (99bc18)

  4. Nice try, but a minute befor he called soldiers who are against the Iraq war “phony soldiers,” he called any Republicans who are against the Iraq war “phony Republicans.”

    Staunch Brayer, I can’t believe you. Itsme absolutely waxed you on that point several hours ago.

    Why would you stupidly post that charge again?

    Paul (d71395)

  5. Actually, the article is pretty interesting overall.

    Itsme (871b28)

  6. “Actually, the article is pretty interesting overall.”

    Except for the blatant lie?

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  7. He was actually backing up my point, Paul.

    Put away that ol’ “Mission Accomplished” banner.

    Y’all got it wrong…again.

    alphie (99bc18)

  8. I think that’s a matter of opinion, really.

    Itsme (871b28)

  9. Christoph – I meant the use of the word “baroque” is opinion, and can’t really be classified as fact or fiction.

    In my view anwyay.

    Itsme (871b28)

  10. Limbaugh and the caller he was talking to were calling soliders who think the war should end “phony soldiers”, not the guy who said he was a soldier. It was an a-hole thing to say, but, you know, it was Rush Limbaugh pushing an “only persons/soldiers who are for the war until we win IN Iraq are real patrioits” viewpoint in that “I’m always right no matter what” in your face Limbaugh way and nothing is new under the sun. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t “respect the troops” it means he wants America to show more of his idea of a backbone.
    The stupid part of the whole thing is how politicians are squawking about it(just like they did with MoveOn’s little hit piece) and falling all over themselves to show how the OTHER side are the real troop haters blah blah coz, you know, it’s getting near election time.
    Politicians using these resolutions as cheap advertising for their “true” convictions robs them of their power to express true convictions…or have they always been cheap advertising?

    EdWood (9f0c0f)

  11. he called any Republicans who are against the Iraq war “phony Republicans.”

    You “work” for ABC don’t you?

    Darleen (187edc)

  12. EdWood #10:

    I sort of found it interesting that he had no comment on the caller’s claim that he was “one of the few” who enlisted out of patriotism and not just wanting money or benefits.

    I also think he called the previous caller who claimed he used to be military and was a Republican a phony vet, when he said: “And I used to walk on the moon.” I know I will be accused of parsing, but he did use the term “used to.”

    Itsme (871b28)

  13. Itsme, he also said, “but you probably have to be a regular listener to his show to follow it,” and that’s total bullshit.

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  14. Well Christoph, I think that’s opinion as well, but we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

    Itsme (871b28)

  15. No, Itsme, we don’t “have to agree to disagree,” we do already. So this additional step is unnecessary. That was always an inane expression anyway. Hopefully we can agree on that.

    Christoph (92b8f7)

  16. He was actually backing up my point, Paul.

    Problem is, Itsme posted the actual transcript…which I linked to.

    Y’all got it wrong…again.

    Only if you ignore the actual transcript…which I noticed you did on the other thread after it was posted.

    I ask again, Staunch Brayer: why would you stupidly post that charge again?

    Paul (d71395)

  17. Christophe #15:

    Touche.

    Itsme (871b28)

  18. Ah — lying Liberals and the lies they tell.

    When are the phony statesmen Democrats going to end the war they promised, promised, promised to end? All they can do is lie about a private citizen.

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  19. Paul,

    The adolescent Thought Crime patrolling that pass for “patriotism” on the far right end of the dial is a losing strategy.

    If you want me to respond to anything you write from here on out, you’re going to have to show me that you understand what objective truth is.

    Here is the call again:

    CALLER: Are we ever going to take care of it, though? How long do you think we’re going to have to be there to take care of it?

    RUSH: Mike, you can’t possibly be a Republican.

    CALLER: I am.

    RUSH: You can’t be Republican.

    CALLER: Oh, I am definitely Republican.

    RUSH: You sound just like a Democrat.

    A is A.

    alphie (99bc18)

  20. If you want me to respond to anything you write from here on out, you’re going to have to show me that you understand what objective truth is.

    Tee-hee. Snicker. Guffaw. How could anyone fail to respect a threat by Betatroll to stop talking to us. ROTFLMAO.

    nk (da3e6b)

  21. Limbaugh was referring to actual phony soldiers. People who pretended to be soldiers — but weren’t.

    And yet… somehow you can’t quite bring yourself to post any transcript backing that up. I wonder why…

    Oregonian (8ef6bc)

  22. Here you go.

    He immediately talks about Jesse Macbeth.

    Patterico (bad89b)

  23. Well.

    He “immediately” had this exchange:

    CALLER: The phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they’re willing to sacrifice for the country.

    RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.

    alphie (99bc18)

  24. Sure, Staunch Brayer, that caller reads remarkably like you did months ago when you claimed to be a Republican.

    If you want me to respond to anything you write from here on out, you’re going to have to show me that you understand what objective truth is.

    If you had a clue what objective truth is, you’d post this part:

    RUSH: You’re not listening to what I say. You can’t possibly be a Republican. I’m answering every question; it’s not what you want to hear, and so it’s not even penetrating your little wall of armor you’ve got built up. I said we stay to get the job done, as long as it takes. I didn’t say forever. Nothing takes forever. That’s not possible, Bill. Mike. Whatever. Nobody lives forever, no situation lasts forever, everything ends. We determine how do we want it to end, in our favor or in our defeat? With people like you in charge, who want to put a timeline on everything — do you ever get anything done in your life? Or do you say, “Well, I wanted to have this done by now, and it’s not, so screw it”? You don’t live your life that way. Well, hell, you might, I don’t know. But the limitations that you want to impose here are senseless, and they, frankly, portray no evidence that you are a Republican.

    Remarkably like you used to do here on this blog.

    If you actually listened to the show, you’d know he refers to such callers as “Seminar Callers.” They are leftists that adhere to a strict formula to get past call screeners and get on air: compliment the host, state that they agree with Rush on most things, then espouse a far-left moonbat-based position, again like you used to do.

    Lefties have been attempting this tactic all 16 years I have listened to the show, Staunch Brayer. Denying it is illogical and stupid, like denying the truth about Jesse MacBeth.

    Paul (d71395)

  25. Other than when the transcript was posted up a few hours ago in the post about Dingy Harry, Oregonian…

    http://patterico.com/2007/10/19/how-else-can-you-describe-harry-reid-other-than-to-call-him-a-liar/

    If you want me to respond to anything you write from here on out, you’re going to have to show me that you understand what objective truth is.

    The last refuge of the idiotic demagogue is always declare victory and your general superiority and refuse to speak on the issue any longer.

    Interesting how Idiot Demagogue has to lie by omission to make his argument… the rest of the transcript of the call with “Mike the Fake Republican” we’ll call him, that Idiot Demagogue resolutely ignored just a few hours ago:

    RUSH: As long as it takes.

    CALLER: How long?

    RUSH: As long as it takes. It is very serious. This is the United States of America at war with Islamofascists. Just like your job, you do everything you have to do, whatever it takes to get it done, if you take it seriously.

    CALLER: So then you say we need to stay there forever?

    RUSH: No, Bill — (Laughing) or Mike. I’m sorry. I’m confusing you with the guy from Texas.

    CALLER: I used to be military, okay, and I am a Republican.

    RUSH: Yeah.

    CALLER: And I do listen to you, but –

    RUSH: Right, I know. And I, by the way, used to walk on the moon.

    CALLER: How long do we have to stay there?

    RUSH: You’re not listening to what I say. You can’t possibly be a Republican. I’m answering every question; it’s not what you want to hear, and so it’s not even penetrating your little wall of armor you’ve got built up. I said we stay to get the job done, as long as it takes. I didn’t say forever. Nothing takes forever. That’s not possible, Bill. Mike. Whatever. Nobody lives forever, no situation lasts forever, everything ends. We determine how do we want it to end, in our favor or in our defeat? With people like you in charge, who want to put a timeline on everything — do you ever get anything done in your life? Or do you say, “Well, I wanted to have this done by now, and it’s not, so screw it”? You don’t live your life that way. Well, hell, you might, I don’t know. But the limitations that you want to impose here are senseless, and they, frankly, portray no evidence that you are a Republican.

    Even if Limbaugh’s original “phony soldier” statement in the middle of a conversation could be interpreted to mean that any soldier who opposes the war is a “phony soldier,” as soon as the conversation was over he immediately clarified what he meant. I suppose it’s Limbaugh’s fault that he didn’t even further limit the limited amount of time his caller had on the air (courtesy, Idiot Demagogue, something you’re unfamiliar with) to spend a minute explaining exactly what he meant, and waited until the call was over before he did. It’s not like the caller had 3 hours a day to say what he has to say, he had 1-2 minutes. It was perfectly reasonable for Rush to give him the full opportunity to speak his mind and wait until the call was over to expound further on the point he raised about phony soldiers during the conversation with the caller.

    The blatant dishonesty of people like alphie is just… weird. Where are their consciences?

    chaos (9c54c6)

  26. Well.

    He “immediately” had this exchange:

    CALLER: The phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they’re willing to sacrifice for the country.

    RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.

    Well.

    Let’s run the full exchange, shall we?

    RUSH ARCHIVE: It’s not possible intellectually to follow these people.

    CALLER: No, it’s not. And what’s really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

    RUSH: The phony soldiers.

    CALLER: The phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they’re proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they’re willing to sacrifice for the country.

    RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.

    Gotcha, Staunch Brayer.

    Paul (d71395)

  27. Paul,

    For some people, guess, thirty years of voting straight-ticket Republican isn’t enough, eh?

    Patterico,

    I don’t think you linked to a trascript.

    That is an edited apologia.

    alphie (99bc18)

  28. Your “arguments,” if they can be called that, should be able to stand on their own regardless of whether you’re a Republican, Democrat, or a big furry creature from Mars, Idiot Demagogue.

    Edited apologia is a sham argument. What was “edited” out had no relevance to the comment, as has been pointed out before, with the edited portion again posted up in the comments to the latest Harry Reid post Patterico made. Which you ignored, of course.

    The staggering amount of arrogance the Idiot Demagogue displays – he has to think that we’re all too stupid to go look at the evidence for ourselves and just accept his laughable assertions at face value.

    chaos (9c54c6)

  29. For some people, guess, thirty years of voting straight-ticket Republican isn’t enough, eh?

    FYI, Staunch Brayer, I used to be a Liberal Democrat. Ronald Reagan never got my vote, neither did George Bush 41. Seeing the abject failure of liberalism up close and personal (and working side-by-side with obtuse triangles like you) is what made me a conservative convert.

    How do you think I can swat away your illogical arguments so easily?

    Paul (d71395)

  30. chaos #25 –

    Well, this is exactly how the segue went, and I’m not sure I’d agree that he was simply “clarifying” what he meant:

    And all of these anti-war Democrats are getting even more hell-bent on pulling out of there, which means that success on the part of you and, and your colleagues over there is, is a great threat to them. It’s just, it’s frustrating and maddening, and it is why they must be kept in the minority.

    Look, I want to thank you, Mike, for calling. I appreciate it very much. I gotta — let me see — got something — here is a “Morning Update” that we did recently talking about fake soldiers. This is a story of who the left props up as heroes. And they have their celebrities.

    One of them was Jesse MacBeth. Now, he was a “corporal,” I say in quotes – 23 years old.

    Itsme (871b28)

  31. The staggering amount of arrogance the Idiot Demagogue displays – he has to think that we’re all too stupid to go look at the evidence for ourselves and just accept his laughable assertions at face value.

    That’s the best part, Chaos–Staunch Brayer cannot grasp the dilapidating and destructive effect an online archive has on incessant lying.

    I find it quite amusing.

    Paul (d71395)

  32. I meant to add that I don’t know that Jesse McBeath was held up as an advocate of troop withdrawal.

    I thought his game was claiming to have participated in war crimes and trying to stick the VA with a PTSD claim.

    I could be wrong, so if you know, please post.

    Itsme (871b28)

  33. If you pull up the previous day’s transcript, you should see explicit reference to Jessie. The term “Phony Soldiers” isn’t used there, but a swath of that entire week used terms nearly as inflamatory – yet clearly target at Jesse MacBeth and, events like Scott Beauchamp’s fabulous fables.

    Al (b624ac)

  34. Itsme #12
    Exactly, First caller disagreed, in fact went beyond that, he said, “you are wrong” which is like catnip to Limbaugh, or maybe a shot of espresso, and that instantly made the guy “not a Republican” or “solider” (which, even if it was true was a really weak attempt at creating some sort of credibility at the last moment of the argument). The second caller did it right, came on the air and stayed complimentary, respectful, and on script all the way. He could have said he was anything and Rush would have played along….in other words Classic Rush Limbaugh show. Rush is so used this that he must have a private, monthly, “stir em up” set of comments taht he airs just for laughs.

    EdWood (9f0c0f)

  35. Haha,

    here’s what Rush said:

    I’m not the one who linked to a “phony transcript.”

    Or put it online in the first place in the hopes someone would see it instead of the real transcipt:

    CALLER 2: No, it’s not, and what’s really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.

    LIMBAUGH: The phony soldiers.

    CALLER 2: The phony soldiers. If you talk to a real soldier, they are proud to serve. They want to be over in Iraq. They understand their sacrifice, and they’re willing to sacrifice for their country.

    LIMBAUGH: They joined to be in Iraq. They joined —

    CALLER 2: A lot of them — the new kids, yeah.

    LIMBAUGH: Well, you know where you’re going these days, the last four years, if you signed up. The odds are you’re going there or Afghanistan or somewhere.

    CALLER 2: Exactly, sir.

    I’m not sure why patterico got suckered by a “phony transcript” but I think it’s clear Rush was talking about any soldier who was against the war.

    If you’re one of the less than 1% of Americans who listen to his show and need to believe what you need to…well, if you can get over his personal life, you can believe anything.

    alphie (99bc18)

  36. Tell us about your personal life, Betatroll.

    nk (da3e6b)

  37. Haha alphie,

    You are the one pushing a phony transcript — a Media Matters edited apologia for the smears against Rush. It rips out the context and is dishonest.

    Haha.

    Patterico (37b2c6)

  38. I thought his game was claiming to have participated in war crimes and trying to stick the VA with a PTSD claim.

    No, you’re right, Itsme. That’s why he was referred to as a “phony soldier” because that is a truthful description of him.

    No, the troop withdrawal advocates would be the Congressional Dems as a group (most of them, anyway)…and those that agree with them. It was such as they that held up MacBeth as part of their pullout narrative.

    Paul (d71395)

  39. If it ain’t baroque, don’t nix it.

    Patterico (6873f1)

  40. Maybe I should change the title . . .

    Patterico (fe49df)

  41. Haha alphie,

    You are the one pushing a phony transcript — a Media Matters edited apologia for the smears against Rush. It rips out the context and is dishonest.

    Haha.

    Patrick, you’ve probably already seen this, but I posted the edited portion already on the Harry Reid thread…something Staunch Brayer ignored.

    The sheer inepitude demonstrated is hilarious!

    Paul (d71395)

  42. EdWood #34:

    Yes, I really think he was calling the previous caller a phony vet, but people could diagram those sentences all day and not agree.

    One of the reasons I don’t buy the whole “I was only talking about one particular phony and not the many heroic patriot soldiers who question the war” is because I’d never heard of him defending the latter’s patriotism before. On the contrary, he has questioned or denigrated the service of anti-war vets before, e.g., calling veteran Paul Hackett a “staff puke” and “a liberal hiding behind a military uniform” who went to Iraq to “pad his resume.” Where was the outrage over that?

    Then he compared the wounded vet who made the critical ad to a suicide bomber. Of course the vet had been wounded by a suicide bomber…nice way to defuse the situation, RB (no pun intended).

    His explanation was nearly as bad…the kindest take means that he thought these “heroes” are just too dense to read the transcript or listen to the segment and make up their own minds.

    Itsme (871b28)

  43. Paul #38:

    No, you’re right, Itsme. That’s why he was referred to as a “phony soldier” because that is a truthful description of him.

    But the “phony soldier” remark was in the context of people who advocate pulling out. And the caller said, “yeah, they don’t even talk to real soldiers…”

    Itsme (871b28)

  44. P #39:

    Very good.

    Itsme (871b28)

  45. Patterico,

    Your “transcript” contains a link to another show.

    I wasn’t aware you could post links on the radio.

    Anyhoo, right-wing news posted the same transcipt Media matters did:

    http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2007/09/phony_soldiers_a_phony_story_i.php

    Are you saying right wing news is lying, too?

    alphie (99bc18)

  46. I have to admit I couldn’t find a transcript at the RB link, but maybe I wasn’t looking close enough.

    Itsme (871b28)

  47. Went back and looked…it was there, but only a partial transcript, in the middle of the other transcript. Kinda confusing.

    Itsme (871b28)

  48. Are you saying right wing news is lying, too?

    Staunch Brayer, you really need to read through the entire Harry Reid thread. This point has already been refuted also.

    Paul (d71395)

  49. Itsme’s right (in number 42), more or less. Why’s it so hard for anyone to believe that Limbaugh would question the patriotism of soldiers who don’t support the war?

    It was stupid for Harry Reid to try to turn the whole thing to his political advantage, but that doesn’t change the fact that the whole “phony soldiers” exchange was asinine.

    Leviticus (8e623b)

  50. Itsme, I agree, in fact it was the continuing conversation after the “phony soldier” comment, lumping other war critical soldiers with the caller that convinced me that he really was calling other soldiers phonies as well. And it would probably have been just another day in Limbaugh Land if the country wasn’t creeping up on the primary elections.

    EdWood (9f0c0f)

  51. The distilled truth remains that Reid was elected to the Senate by about 300,000 morons from a State which supports itself by gambling and prostitution.

    nk (da3e6b)

  52. Did you mean 300,000 morons or 300,000 Mormons? (I’m kidding. Mormons are not morons.)

    DRJ (67ced6)

  53. Morons!!! That’s about the number of Democrat votes in Nevada Senatorial elections.

    I don’t have anything against Mormons. They did what the whole Confederacy could not do — fought the Union Army to a standstill. 😉

    nk (da3e6b)

  54. DRJ, three of the people I respect the most are Mormon… And you have no idea how often I make that typo…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  55. It was stupid for Harry Reid to try to turn the whole thing to his political advantage, but that doesn’t change the fact that the whole “phony soldiers” exchange was asinine.

    Levi, if what Rush said was so deplorable, so beyond the pale, then how come Harry Reid got p3wnd?

    Paul (d71395)

  56. It’s par for the course for Rutten. He really does think he, not John Miller interviewed Bin
    Laden in 1997.

    narciso (d671ab)

  57. Wow the breathtaking lies and distortion of Itsatroll and Alpho is beyond belief. Its not just Jessie MacBeth, its Jimmy Massey, Micah Wright, Josh Lansdale and Scott Beauchamp and all the other wanna be John Kerry’s.

    Its people like Itsatroll and Alpho that spread the lies of Kerry and now try to distort the anti American activities and treason of the dhimmierats.

    I would wonder what have these “patriotic” Leftists and all the Leftist progressives done besides deny the troops in the Bay area access to public facilities, mock the wounded at Bethesda, and generally give aid and comfort to our enemies? I was in Georgetown and saw these idiots, perhaps two hundred masked zit faced morons lead by a cadre of fifty something professional communists throwing rocks and behaving as only progressive moonbats can. Why do people practising honest dissent need to disguise their identities?

    Perhaps for the same reason itsatroll and Alpho demonstrate such a profound indifference to honesty and such a detachment from reality.

    Heres the Jason Blair Award to Alpho and Itsatroll for truthfulnss and accuracy. Keep it up you’re threatening Eason Jordan and Walter Duranty for their titles.

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  58. Paul #55:

    Levi, if what Rush said was so deplorable, so beyond the pale, then how come Harry Reid got p3wnd?

    Simple. RB has a much better PR guy.

    Itsme (871b28)

  59. Simple. RB has a much better PR guy.

    Oh, come on.

    Paul (d71395)

  60. Paul, think about it. How much interest do you think either one of these stories would generate on their own? Would people be running to the water cooler to discuss?

    The fact is, Harry Reid pushed the game piece one way on the board, hoping to score his PR points. RB pushed back with a really pretty masterful PR stunt – auction the thing on eBay, proceeds to a military-law enforcement charity.

    Presto. P3wnd.

    I think the best explanation for the various pushbacks I’ve seen is in this article. The most interesting, anyway.

    Itsme (871b28)

  61. I take it back…I think RB’s original “phony soldiers” comment probably generated a lot of discussion, and a lot of flak.

    The rest was PR though. On both sides.

    Itsme (871b28)

  62. The use of phony soldiers by the MSM is just PR. Must you quote the Goebbels school of thought at every chance. When someone calls black white and white black you realize what Newspeak is. Mo0re bombast from Itsatroll.

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  63. I take it back…I think RB’s original “phony soldiers” comment probably generated a lot of discussion, and a lot of flak.

    I think some on the Left tried to play “Gotcha!” with a broadcast quote that is somewhat unclear taken out of context, and clear to those of us that have spent years listening to the show. That’s the only reason it even got discussed; the MSM ignored the story until the eBay high bid rose over $1 million.

    And it is taken out of context. Get a load of this: ABC News’ Charlie Gibson ran a segment two days before Limbaugh on “phony soldiers” with similar language, similar context. How come ABC News gets a pass and Limbaugh doesn’t?

    CHARLES GIBSON (ABC NEWS)

    (Voiceover) ‘A Closer Look” tonight at phony heroes. A famous recruiting slogan once touted the Army as a place to be all you can be. But increasingly, scam artists are posing as the war heroes they never were, claiming credit for acts of courage in Iraq and Afghanistan. Federal officials have launched a crackdown. Operation Stolen Valor they call it. Tonight, our Brian Ross investigates.

    BRIAN ROSS (ABC NEWS)

    (Voiceover) At a time when tens of thousands of US soldiers have put their lives on the line in Iraq and been honored for their sacrifice and courage, federal prosecutors have had to launch a crackdown on phony heroes.

    Paul (d71395)

  64. Well, without rehashing the whole “what did he mean” question, I think there was a willingness to let it play out. I’ll just put it that way.

    Itsme (871b28)

  65. PS, I will say that the ABC story appeared to talk about two “phonies,” neither one of whom were described as advocates of bringing the troops back from Iraq.

    The first was a fake military chaplain and the second was Jesse MacBeath. One of the interviewees made the point that most fakes are trying to scam the VA for benefits.

    So once again, I don’t see where anyone in the ABC story has anything to do with the claim that when it comes to people who want to pull out, the media never interviews “real soldiers.”

    Itsme (871b28)

  66. Its me said….PS, I will say that the ABC story appeared to talk about two “phonies,” neither one of whom were described as advocates of bringing the troops back from Iraq.

    Yet more mendacious material from itswhoever. Its, are you paid to disseminate misinformation?

    Jesse MacBeth was a PROMINENT war critic who traitorously alleged that he committed war crimes and attrocities against mosques. Frankly, given the incendiary nature of his statements, he should have been prosecuted for this, he probably killed real US soldiers (no matter what their position on the war) by inflaming the Iraqis.

    Note his birth name…. apparently muslim.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

    Jesse Adam Macbeth (b. Jesse Adam Al-Zaid,[1] in 1984) is a civilian anti-war protester who falsely claimed to be an Army Ranger and veteran of the Iraq War. He lied in alternative media interviews that he and his unit routinely committed war crimes in Iraq. [2][3] Transcripts of the video were made in English and Arabic.[4] According to the U.S. Army, there is no record of Macbeth being a Ranger,[5][6] or serving in a combat unit: he was discharged from the service after having been declared unfit or unsuitable for the Army, or both,[7] before he could complete basic training.[8]

    After his release from the Army in 2004, Macbeth purported himself to be a veteran, telling war stories and garnering attention from mainstream,[9] alternative[10] and student media outlets. He joined Iraq Veterans Against the War in January of 2006,[11] and represented, or was scheduled to represent them publicly at various events throughout the country;[12][13][14] the organization has since said it does not endorse Macbeth or his accounts of military service.[11]

    red (9e9332)

  67. Dennis Miller has a nice riff on Ringside Harry here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD_-li0ofjw

    daleyrocks (906622)

  68. #49:

    Why’s it so hard for anyone to believe that Limbaugh would question the patriotism of soldiers who don’t support the war?

    Well, probably because nobody has ever heard him do that.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  69. Well, probably because nobody has ever heard him do that.

    Beleive me, if such an audio file existed, we’d be hearing it 24/7 from the MSM.

    Paul (d71395)

  70. Two million plus raised by that “evil” Rush Limbaugh for the troops versus who much for the “patriotic” Left? Its embarassing to see the Left whine and make such excuses. No brains, less class, and definitely not patriots.

    2008 looking more and more like a 1972 landslide again. 11% approval for the dhimmierats. Can’t wait for the leeming leap!

    Thomas Jackson (bf83e0)

  71. red #66:

    Thanks, I actually have read the Wiki article and several others. Aside from the fact he was mostly “prominent” only in certain alternative Internet circles, I don’t see any quotes from him specifically advocating withdrawal of troops from Iraq. Maybe you can find some and post them.

    The context of the RB quote was that of arguments for withdrawing the troops, in which the caller claimed that the media never talked to “real soldiers” about it. And that those who did talk to the media about it just “came up out of the blue.”

    I just don’t see how Jesse McBeath qualifies.

    Itsme (f1f2ec)

  72. PS, re the Arizona Courier article, which may be as close as McBeath came to “talking to the MSM,” remember that the article was mostly about his supposed wounds and battle trauma, and his desire for a medical discharge and PTSD treatment. Nothing in there about withdrawing the troops.

    Itsme (f1f2ec)

  73. Paul #69:

    Well, after he was lambasted for comparing the wounded vet to a suicide bomber, he did publicly thank the man for his service whether he supported the war or not.

    Itsme (f1f2ec)

  74. Itsme #72,

    Sigh. Have you been taking lessons in disingenuousness from the three Greenwalds?

    nk (da3e6b)

  75. The illogical babble coming out of itstroll is just too good.

    Jesse Macbeth was poster boy for Iraq Veterans Against the War until they found out he was a phony soldier who’d never been anywhere near Iraq. His testimony was used as a powerful piece of evidence for the argument that the war is immoral and US involvement should be ended in it for that reason. IVAW had him running around the country telling his lies until he was found out.

    Your posts are just so blatantly dishonest. That’s the internet for you.

    chaos (9c54c6)

  76. One thing a lot of non-regular Rush listeners (or just plain critics who get all of their info 2nd hand) fail to remember/realize, is that Rush really can’t hear the callers. He has to rely on a transcriber to put the caller’s words into type on his monitor, so that he can respond to them.

    His operation on his hearing (some form of electronic implant) makes it possible for him to conduct conversations in the normal course of events, but it doesn’t work well with electronic reproduction of voices that he has to deal with through the headset he wears while at the mike.

    You can pick up on this if he has a caller who talks very fast, and runs-on sentences: Rush just can’t keep up because his transcriber is always behind.

    Considering his impairment, and what he does, we should all do as well in our chosen forms of employment.

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  77. chaos #75:

    When you find a media interview with Jesse MacBeath advocating for withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, I’d be interested in seeing it.

    Thanks.

    Itsme (f1f2ec)

  78. AD #76:

    That’s pretty interesting. I always wondered how his hearing thing went.

    Itsme (f1f2ec)


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