Patterico's Pontifications

8/21/2007

The French want to help in Iraq …

Filed under: General,International,War — DRJ @ 6:57 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

The French government has changed its stance on Iraq:

“During a three-day visit to Baghdad that ended Tuesday, the French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, said that the time had come for France, and Europe, to play a greater role in Iraq.

“I believe this is the moment. Everyone knows the Americans will not be able to get this country out of difficulty alone,” Kouchner told the French radio station RTL on Tuesday before returning to Paris. “I really believe that depending on what happens here it will change the world.”

“This is about having an opinion and knowing what positive things one can do and what role France can play in this region,” he said, adding that Iraq was “expecting something” from France.”

The media realizes this is All About the Oil:

“Kouchner’s trip, the first to Iraq by a French minister since the invasion in 2003, renewed interest in reports that the French oil company Total may seek a stake in Iraqi oil fields. This month, the French media reported that Total and one of its American rivals, Chevron, were seeking to jointly explore Iraq’s fourth-largest oil field.

But Kouchner’s office said that no executives had accompanied Kouchner to Iraq and that economic interests were not the focus of the trip.”

The French want to help talk, not fight:

“A senior official close to Kouchner explained that the French sought a role in political mediation in Iraq, and had no intention to enter the military conflict.”

This is good news but it still reminds me of all those French military jokes.

50 Responses to “The French want to help in Iraq …”

  1. Democrats, including John Kerry, will soon be trashing France.

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  2. This was my favorite part:

    “I believe this is the moment. Everyone knows the Americans will not be able to get this country out of difficulty alone,”

    Translation: America is winning. Let’s get on board.

    DRJ (bfe07e)

  3. That’s the last thing we need – continental European allies, just in time to take the credit for victory.

    No thanks. After our experience with fickle Spain and ransom-paying Italy, I have no desire for their help. We are better off without them. They have cost far more lives than they have saved.

    Too little, too late.

    Amphipolis (fb9e95)

  4. When the Democrats and Liberals have lost France — they have lost.

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  5. This is a part of the President’s Iraq policy I have always disagreed with. At the end of the “Shock and Awe”, which admittedly we were the only ones capable of accomplishing, he very arrogantly foreclosed non-participants from future roles in the rebuilding of Iraq. I am very glad that there is now a more pro-America government in France willing to let bygones be bygones.

    (Although the French are otherwise despicable surrender monkeys who surrendered to Hitler without a fight imagining that they could thus preserve the pleasures of wine, adultery and civilized conversation.)

    nk (e3412b)

  6. petit poulet rouge

    atmama (8e90d2)

  7. There’s nothing to add, not only were all the comments hilarious but they were, unfortunately, spot on.

    Dana (a74119)

  8. In other news later that same day, France singled it’s surrender to Iraq…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  9. The French have done such a merveillieux job of keeping Southern Lebananon demilitarized since last summer, how could we gracefully decline their help.

    Going to war without the French is like going hunting without a brass band.

    daleyrocks (906622)

  10. But seriously, if France can actually help, I won’t turn it down…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  11. Scott – France cannot help.

    The only reason that they are willing to sign on now is that they realized that they cannot officially surrender unless they are actually participating. Having tried to surrender under Chirac and Dominic de Villebluhbluh, they are quickly moving to correct the mistake.

    JD (815fda)

  12. Going to war without the French is like going hunting without an accordion.

    Donald Rumsfeld was being heckled by a French anti-war weenie when he suddenly turned and asked the Frenchman:
    “Excuse me. Do you speak German?” The Frenchman replied “No.” Rumsfeld looked him in the eyes and said “You’re welcome.”

    Q: How did the French react to German reunification?
    A: They put up speed bumps at the borders to slow down the panzers.

    Q: Why is it good to be French?
    A: You can surrender at the beginning of the war, and US will win it for you.

    Q: How can you tell if a Frenchman has been in your back yard?
    A: Your garbage is gone and your dog is pregnant.

    Q: What do you do if a Frenchman throws a hand-grenade at you?
    A: Take the pin out and throw it back.
    ——————————————————————————–
    Q: What do you do if a Frenchamn throws a pin at you?
    A: Run like hell – he’s still got a hand-grenade between his teeth.

    French President Jacques Chirac:
    “As far as I’m concerned, war always means failure.

    Q: How many Frenchman does it take to guard Paris?
    A: Nobody knows, its never been tried.

    Q: Why don’t they have fireworks at Euro Disney?
    A: Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender.

    Q: What do you call a Frenchman with a sheep under one arm and a goat under the other?
    A: A bisexual.

    “France has neither winter nor summer nor morals. Apart from these drawbacks it is a fine country. France has usually been governed by prostitutes.”
    —Mark Twain

    “I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.”
    — General George S. Patton

    “Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion.”

    “The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don’t know.”
    — P.J O’Rourke (1989)

    Next time there’s a war in Europe, the loser has to keep France.

    JD (815fda)

  13. Mon Deu!

    The “support the troops” crowd is insulting the folks who are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan with our guys?

    Quell surprise!

    alphie (015011)

  14. Come one, Alphie. Jokes are funnier when there’s a bit of truth to them. It’s true with lawyer jokes and with French jokes, and JD’s jokes are funny.

    Anyway, it’s Mon Dieu.

    DRJ (bfe07e)

  15. Aaah,

    I’m sure this guy would get a real kick out of the chickenhawk humor on display here:

    http://www.brotherhoodinarms.org/casualties/french-warrant-officer-pascal-correia/

    alphie (015011)

  16. The right doesn’t cheer the death of its own soldiers or its allies or civilians, Alphie, unlike the left, which needs a bodycount for political purposes.

    What makes you think the French don’t make fun of other countries Alphie, looking down their superior pseudo intellectual noses at the rest of the unsophisticated and uncultured world?

    daleyrocks (906622)

  17. America looks down on France and France looks down on America. It’s not a big deal.

    And it’s not about taking credit. America needs to be big enough to let France in. They are very useful on the world stage in ways we are not.

    And Iraq is only the beginning. We will have to invade another nation or two before this war really turns out way. So we need to slowly get the world to understand and help. Let France pretend it’s the hero if that helps fight Islamists. I’d gladly take my medals off my uniform and pin them on Al Franken if it meant death to a single terrorist.

    Dustin (aba75b)

  18. On the other hand, about that sock, Carl ……

    A day after I scolded Sen. Carl Levin (D-IL) for an egregious case of speaking out of school, this WaPo article may lead some credibility to a possibility that I mentioned but discounted as very unlikely: that Levin’s comments about the Maliki governm…

    BeldarBlog (72c8fd)

  19. With republican parents, I’ve allways known better to be a big fan of France. However, honestly, the idea of refusing help is pretty rediculouse. This ware is not about American pride- this is not another notch on our historical millitary bed post. This is about hundreds of thousands of people lives wich are all i physical hell right now as we chat from our computers unworried about any rockets flying through our windows.

    The kind of help is important to discuss though. At the same time as us needing to accept help and accellorate the process of finishing this war, there is a place for certain types of help.

    Millitary help could be used. They could help by guarding the Iraqi government an d Iraqi police stations.

    There is also a place for them in reconstruction, to help rebuild distroyd police stations and other things that have been inconveniantly blown up.

    They could help by setting up free helth clinics for the many Iraqi’s in need of it. Sent up places where people can turn in weapons to be distroyed and bring anonymous tips that can be forwarded to the central U.S. command.

    However, I do not think it would be appropriate for them to play a political role. They were selfish in the beginning, I don’t think they should be rewarded for their cowerdouse by getting to have any sort of influence with the Iraqi polititions or anything like that. They extremely wealcom and encouraged to take a little load off the backs of the two Marene freinds I have in Iraq, but it is unfair to reward their inicial cowerdace and selfishness.

    Christopher (Fipher) D. Osborn (66468c)

  20. The French aren’t interested in “helping”, they’re interested in re-establishing the Total-Final-Elf contracts they signed with Saddam.

    Rob Crawford (240cf9)

  21. This is a chicken-and-egg problem. France has changed, but only because it elected a more sane, more conservative govt. It elected a more sane, conservative govt because the economy was in danger and Moslem thugs ruled the streets (any idea how that is going these days?). The need for a new, more sane, conservative govt was created by the old, Socialist, surrender monkey enablers. The more sane, conservative govt is now in a position to take a more sane, conservative approach to foreign policy, relations with the U.S., and a reassessment of their attitudes toward Moslem thugs, both at home and abroad.

    So, Perfect Sense, you are correct, sort of. John Kerry does not have to trash France, since he was in contact with them daily during the campaign. That would require learning a new script, not one of John’s strong suits. He can talk honestly about how the good, Socialists, amoral, surrender monkeys were his friends, and how these French “Republican” warmongers are ruining France. It’s an easier script to learn. Just change all of the “American” reference to “French.”

    Scott (412f3f)

  22. The French aren’t interested in “helping”, they’re interested in re-establishing the Total-Fina-Elf contracts they signed with Saddam.

    Bingo. But that they’re willing to come in at all is a prime indicator that the winds in Iraq are blowing OUR way. As is UN Security Council Resolution 1770, which you’d have to dig to notice being mentioned at all in the US media.

    The chickens are coming back. This reflects their assessment that Iraq’s well past the falling apart stage.

    Tully (e4a26d)

  23. “Iraq’s well past the falling apart stage.”

    Unless overthrowing Maliki by courting an insurrection doesn’t count. Anbar is getting ZERO help and our whole project depends on maintaining new gains.

    “There’s not a strong sense anywhere, really, of the central government being present and active in making conditions in Iraq better. This is an open society, a democratic society, and if governments don’t perform, at a certain point I think you’re going to see a new government.” – U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker

    Maliki, in his last throes, staging a show trial of “infidels” trying to overthrow him is not something I’d like to see. Nor probably bet against.

    steve (3ae4b6)

  24. “Going to war without France is like going duck hunting without your accordian”
    — Donald Rumsfeld, U.S. Secretary of Defense

    Neo (cba5df)

  25. Translation: America is winning. Let’s get on board.

    AMEN!

    Somewhere, Rumsfeld is smiling.

    Patricia (824fa1)

  26. And now they have an accordian.

    Tully (e4a26d)

  27. “I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.”

    General George S. Patton, Jr

    13times (2b4ea9)

  28. Donald Rumsfeld was being heckled by a French anti-war weenie when he suddenly turned and asked the Frenchman:
    “Excuse me. Do you speak German?” The Frenchman replied “No.” Rumsfeld looked him in the eyes and said “You’re welcome.”
    No retort to that.

    I would have said “No thanks” to the previous government, but with the new leadership it needs to be considered. After all, Great Britain replaced Chamberlain with Churchill.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  29. Do we take out or Iran or Syria next, and will each greet us as liberators?

    This is just getting good.

    steve (70ce9b)

  30. steve – you make alphie look sentient.

    JD (815fda)

  31. Alphie #15,

    Our jokes pertained to a country, not its citizens and certainly not anyone who would fight for another man’s freedom. French Warrant Officer Pascal Correia is a hero.

    DRJ (bfe07e)

  32. The French are useless.

    Mark (e7967d)

  33. The French have an interest in Iraqi oil? But… wait a minute! We earned that oil! It’s OURS!

    Well, no, actually. It’s not ours.

    “Halliburton — which already is working on the oil fields, thanks to a controversial early contract awarded without competitive bidding — is in a prime position to win the next job, as are other U.S. oilfield services companies. After all, U.S. tax dollars will be paying for this early work, at least until the oil starts flowing again, so it seems unlikely the Bush administration will send that money overseas.

    Left out in the cold could be companies from France, Russia, China and other nations, which had up to $20 billion in pre-war development deals with the Iraqi government.

    French oil company TotalFinaElf, which has contracts worth up to $4 billion to develop Iraq’s Majnoon oil field, has said it’s confident its contract will be honored — but that could depend on who controls Iraq’s oil production in the future.”

    CNN

    So yes, the French are interested in getting a piece of the pie. What you people fail to grasp is that it’s pie they’ve paid good money for.

    Controversial no-bid crony contract aside, the US must give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.

    Leviticus (35fbde)

  34. That Rumsfeld line is hilarious, by the way.

    Leviticus (35fbde)

  35. So yes, the French are interested in getting a piece of the pie. What you people fail to grasp is that it’s pie they’ve paid good money for.

    We grasp that, Levi. What you fail to grasp is that France violated UN resolutions for that pie.

    It was called the “Oil For Food” scandal. The Frecnh got Iraqi oil in exchange for feeding the Iraqi people…but as we saw, Saddam built and lavishly decorated his palaces while allowing his people to starve.

    France knew this, yet continued to barter and line the pockets of Saddam…and Kofi Annan.

    Paul (f54101)

  36. Exactly. France’s agreements were with Saddam’s government, which no longer exists. It’s up to the Iraqis–and only the Iraqis–to determine how valid they are, how much credit France should get for agreements the current government played no part in. It’s perfectly legitimate for Iraq to let the contracts back out for bid. They don’t owe France anything. The current Iraqi government didn’t receive a dime from France.

    The French know this. They’re there to negotiate, hoping to get some credit for previous payments made, some concession. But if they get nothing for the sweetheart deals they made in the oil-for-food and arms-for-oil bribery schemes they ran with Saddam, they’ll still be there at the table. Their previous expenditure is a sunk cost.

    Tully (e4a26d)

  37. No kidding. If France wants their money back, let them sue Saddam.

    Bill M (ee2ae1)

  38. Scott – France cannot help.

    Sure they can JD… When is an ablative meatshield not helpful??

    A day after I scolded Sen. Carl Levin (D-IL)

    Beldar, you mean State Senator, right?

    So yes, the French are interested in getting a piece of the pie. What you people fail to grasp is that it’s pie they’ve paid good money for.

    Yes… Illegal money that was actually in violation of UN sanctions. France got richer than hell off of Saddam’s oil because they were buying it illegally.

    So those contracts? They don’t mean shit.

    Scott Jacobs (c0db90)

  39. I sense fear that France might actually score points mediating among Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish factions – whose strife is paralyzing Iraq’s day-to-day governance.

    Beyond 8th grade insults, where’s the downside?

    The rest of the world isn’t as afflicted with left-right point-scoring as we are. The left French daily Le Monde wrote this week, “It is time to stop lecturing the Americans about their errors and start contributing to a solution.”

    Critics must think we’re in danger of missing a huge payday in oil, trade or bases if Europe shows up. It ain’t happening. On our last day in country, we will have spilled blood and treasure for a nervous ally and not much else. If Iraq’s made less needy by outside help, the better we look.

    steve (6830b3)

  40. If there is a real chance that France can score some success in “bottom up” reconcilatory talks, that’s fine. Bring them in. But I will say that their involvement shouldn’t get them overly much consideration in rebuilding/mineral contracts, nor should french pansy-ness inhibit our ability to continue military success.

    Scott Jacobs (c0db90)

  41. “France’s agreements were with Saddam’s government, which no longer exists”

    -Tully

    Well, that’s a great standard for measuring whether or not a contract between two interest groups should be honored. Here’s where that ends up:

    Consumer: “I’m here to pick up my big-screen TV, which I already paid for.”

    Employee: “I’m sorry, our CEO was just fired. I’m afraid that you won’t be getting any big-screen TV, sir. Your purchase just isn’t valid.”

    I guess it’s nice for American companies to know that the US government will nullify the contracts of their international competitors by deposing the ruler of the selling country, though.

    “Yes… Illegal money that was actually in violation of UN sanctions. France got richer than hell off of Saddam’s oil because they were buying it illegally.

    So those contracts? They don’t mean shit.”

    -Scott Jacobs

    Are you the Decider of what is and is not a legitimate oil sale, Scotty m’boy? Feel free to link to anything that supports your claim that TotalFinaElf’s contract in the Majnoon oil fields was somehow “illegal”, just because TotalFinaElf’s spent a bunch of their shareholder’s money on jewelry for their mistresses.

    Leviticus (35fbde)

  42. Another reason France wants back in, besides the selfish don’t want to be “left” out of potential success – is that, in case we have to strike Iran over their nuke proliferation, they can once again ride the fence of either bashing us, and withdrawing support (to make us look bad/them good at the UN) or, supporting us if it is successful, and viewed as necessary by most other neutral countries and/or to be ready to side with Iran in exchange for gratuities, and possible escapism from retaliatory terrorist attacks from that situation – depending on the events following that scenario.

    It is nice to have help and support – but, I don’t trust their motives, or their stamina.

    smee (02d2e3)

  43. Levi,

    One reason Saddam Hussein entered into oil contracts with France was to get French support in the UN. To facilitate that purpose, Saddam paid generous bribes to French government officials and influential citizens, all of whom reaped huge profits from the deals. Contracts founded on bribes are against public policy and can be declared void.

    DRJ (bfe07e)

  44. Contracts founded on bribes are, more or less, the modus operandi of international economic relationships. Be that as it may, I think you’d be hard pressed to find anything that proved TotalFinaElf’s purchase of drilling rights in Majnoon was illegitimate.

    A question for the Lawyers: Is TotalFinaElf subject to litigation or sanction regarding actions (or bribes) taken by the executives of Elf Acquitaine before the merger? I would think so, but I’m not sure…

    Leviticus (ed6d31)

  45. This Wikipedia entry on “the obligations of contracts” might help a little in the discussion of the French oil contracts.

    nk (b038b2)

  46. Contracts founded on bribes are, more or less, the modus operandi of international economic relationships.

    If that’s so, Mr. Levi, then what the hell is your problem?

    Paul (f54101)

  47. I have many problems, Paul. Try to be a little more specific.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  48. I think what he’s trying to say is if bribes are the modus operandi, why the faux outrage when the left accuses Halliburton of doing it? If corruption is acceptable and standard practice for governments or organizations… and nobody is getting upset at France, Germany, Russia, and the UN for corrupt practices… why the faux outrage over the left’s perceived corruption of the administration?

    That’s just my interpretation.

    Stashiu3 (f9262c)

  49. That’s my question, in reverse: If corruption is acceptable when it’s between the US and Halliburton, why is it unacceptable between Iraq and Elf Acquitaine?

    To be totally honest, I don’t give a shit that there’s a little corruption in the world, be it with Halliburton or Elf Acquitaine. I’ve come to accept that it’s just the way things are. But I don’t know where Scott Jacobs and Paul get off lecturing French companies on the importance of integrity when their own representatives in the business world have been tried and found so very, very lacking.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  50. I think there are different types of bribes. Most payments in third world countries are made to get government officials to do their work more expeditiously. They are basically tips that supplement the government payroll for civil service workers.

    The more serious issue is where a payment is made to induce a government official to do something prohibited by the country’s laws or different than what would normally happen. Perhaps the French contractual payments fall within the first category but, given the sums involved in Oil-for-Food and the level of subterfuge and fraud, I’m skeptical.

    DRJ (bfe07e)


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