Not your average Home Invasion
[Guest post by DRJ]
Assume that your neighbor’s home is invaded and she is attacked in her bed. Despite being seriously wounded in the attack, she grabs a nearby gun and unsuccessfully attempts to shoot the attackers. Another neighbor hears the commotion and enters the house but is killed by the attackers. The first neighbor flees, locking herself in her car and calls for help. The police were able to detain the attackers after a fight and with the use of pepper spray.
Frightening but it’s been known to happen, right?
“Two pit bull terriers broke into a house through a pet door Tuesday and attacked a woman in her bed, mauling her badly, a Pierce County [Washington] sheriff’s spokesman said.
The woman was able to grab a gun and try to shoot the dogs, then break away from the attack and lock herself in her car, where she called 911, sheriff’s spokesman Ed Troyer said.
***
The pit bulls also killed a neighbor’s Jack Russell terrier, which entered the house during the attack, Troyer said. “The thought is that the Jack Russell heard noise in the neighbor’s house, came in and was attacked by the dogs,” Troyer said.
Firefighters responded first, locking the dogs in the house, treating the woman and calling for an ambulance. Officers had to pepper spray and fight the dogs until they were detained. “We almost had to shoot them on site,” Troyer said. The dogs were taken to a Humane Society and will probably be destroyed, he said.
It was not immediately known why the dogs entered the house, whether the woman had dogs of her own or what set off the attack.”
I love animals but I don’t see why the authorities didn’t shoot these pit bills on sight, and I can’t fathom why we should care what set them off (except for the lawsuit).
Probably wanted a vet to have the chance to test them alive; plus shooting a gun could be called dangerous.
Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 8/21/2007 @ 10:26 pmI’m the biggest dog lover in the world. But I guess I will never understand why people keep pit bulls as pets. I know not all of them are vicious, but there are so many more stable breeds.
I have chihuahuas (I live in an apartment) and I have to be constantly on guard when we walk to protect the little guys for the big dogs…
Give me dogs or give me death!
Stacy In Tucson (b99466) — 8/21/2007 @ 10:35 pmPit bulls are like harleys. Irresponsible but cool. The distinction is that Pit Bulls are dangerous to everyone, whereas the bike rider only endangers himself.
If you have a pit bull, kill it. Now. If I saw a Pit Bull so much as growl at me, I’d do whatever I could to make sure it wasn’t capable of harming anyone. If your neighbor has a Pit Bull, soak some hamburger in antifreeze. And throw it on over the fence. I’m not kidding. I kill wasps and fire-ants, too.
Dustin (aba75b) — 8/22/2007 @ 1:54 amDustin – I hope your other comments aren’t always that kneejerk. My neighbor across the street has a male pitbull that gets loose fairly often, and he has never initiated any conflict. He’s a big headed baby that acts heartbroken when he’s scolded. My cat isn’t afraid of him, although the first time she went nose-to-nose I’ll admit I held my breath. It’s not the breed – it’s the owner.
rhodeymark (6797b5) — 8/22/2007 @ 4:52 amThere was recently a manslaughter conviction of a woman in NJ who gave her brother-in-law an “anit-freeze” smoothie and watched him die at her table.
Neo (cba5df) — 8/22/2007 @ 7:27 am“Pit bulls are like harleys. Irresponsible but cool.”
Yes, and they are also part of the thug/gangsta culture. You see them more and more as machismo badges.
And the reason the cops didn’t kill them is because it would then be splashed all over the papers how cruel they were, like they did recently when a man shot a mountain lion coming onto his patio. PC, PC, PC.
Rhodeymark, keep clear of the dog. My cousin was an ER doc and treated people (including me) all day who were mauled by “nice” dogs.
Patricia (824fa1) — 8/22/2007 @ 8:06 amDustin – What exactly is irresponsible about Harley’s ?
JD (815fda) — 8/22/2007 @ 8:15 am“We almost had to shoot them on site,”
As opposed to taking them off site to shoot them?
TomHynes (6c3e12) — 8/22/2007 @ 8:26 amA lot of lives have been distroyed or hurt do to this breed of dogs. We must distroy this breed soon. instead of putting Mike V in jail, give the man a larger generator and more pit bulls to play with.
Bryan Kieth (c0837b) — 8/22/2007 @ 9:10 amFree #7
From (http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pets_pitbull):
Fritz (d62210) — 8/22/2007 @ 9:35 amdeath row doggie joke:
a rottweiler, a pit bull and a labrador retriever were sharing a cage in a kennel when they got to talking. the rottweiler said “for years that postal carrier taunted me. it were a wonderful feeling the day i slipped past my master, latched on to him and felt his knee joint give way under my jaws. now they’re gonna put me to sleep.”
the pit bull said “for years that neighbor boy taunted me. last week he hit a baseball into my yard, and when he came over the fence to get it back, i latched on to his head and crushed his skull. now they’re gonna put me to sleep.”
the lab said “my master left me home all morning alone with his 23 year old mistress, who likes to do housework in the nude. after two hours i couldn’t stand it anymore, so when she bent over to dust the baseboard, i mounted her from the rear and rogered her briskly for a full ten minutes.”
there was a silence, then the rottweiler asked “and they’re gonna put you to sleep for that?”
“oh no” said the lab, “they’re not gonna put me to sleep. i’m just here to get my nails trimmed.”
assistant devil's advocate (7cfa2e) — 8/22/2007 @ 9:54 amFor many years the majority of my practice was going on “house calls” for folks having a hard time getting in for follow up. I had one very ill patient who had a pet bull that was very sociable to those it knew. On many occasions the person was alone and too ill to come to the door. I would open the (unlocked) door about 1-2 inches (enough for the nose to jam in but not the whole muzzle), let the barking and snarling dog charge the opening door, then talk to it and let it smell the back of me hand. Invariably it would immediately change to happy whines and wagging tail, let me come in, and accompany me to the owner.
On the other hand, I recently had a bat intrude into the bedroom in the middle of the night while asleep. When I caught the bat next morning and put it in a box to take to animal control one of the staff asked if it was alive or dead. “Well”, I chuckled, “it was alive when I put it in there”. He glared at me and said, “You didn’t make any air holes for it!” I replied, “Well, I knew you were going to kill it anyway to test for rabies, I didn’t think it made a difference”. His response- “There are better ways to die than suffocating”.
That said, I can understand the police not wanting to shoot the dogs immediately, but when an assailant has murdered and seeks to attack police with the murder weapon, shooting the assailant sounds reasonable to me, even if a dog.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 8/22/2007 @ 10:24 amEr, that’s “pit bull” or “pet pit bull”, not “pet bull”.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 8/22/2007 @ 10:26 amAfter having been attacked by my neighbor’s rottweiler (in my yard) a couple month’s ago, and coming to subsequently find out that just about everybody has a rottweiler/pit bull attack story, I have absolutely no empathy for these types of dogs. I don’t really trust any large dog at all now, but the world would be a much better place without any rottweilers or pit bulls in it.
Justin (747191) — 8/22/2007 @ 10:29 amA picture can be worth a thousand words.
nk (e3412b) — 8/22/2007 @ 10:40 amI still want to know why Harleys are “irresonsible”.
JD (815fda) — 8/22/2007 @ 11:00 amI agree with you, MD. I don’t have a problem with pit bulls but it seems they treated these dogs as if they were people with rights. In fact, that’s why I wrote the first paragraph of this post the way I did. This article could have been written about people and it wouldn’t have read any different but, other than the homeowner, the “people” here were all dogs.
DRJ (bfe07e) — 8/22/2007 @ 11:15 amLet’s discuss the victims, 7 year old Zac King killed by pit bull in home (Pioneer Press 2007)
Bryan Kieth (c0837b) — 8/22/2007 @ 11:54 am19 year old Amanda Boyles, HFD Cpt. T. Poulsen and crew, R Ouink of Redlands, Ca., The daughter of NBA #8 L. Sprewell. We can go on and on do to the fact that out of 368000 dog atack victims, more than half are from the Pit Bull every year.
We must regulate this Dog almost the same way we try with guns. safety classes and lic.
It was indeed a clever way of posting, DRJ.
What I would like to know from Justin and others with first hand/reliable knowledge of attacks:
1. Was there any history to suggest the dog was “unfriendly”, at least?
2. Was inadequate supervision by the dog’s owner involved?
3. Were there any criminal or civil proceedings against the dogs owners, and if so, were they successful?
There are probably dozens of types of dogs, not to mention mixed breeds, that can be trained to be really nasty. If there really are breeds that inherently are much worse, I could see something against the dogs per se, but otherwise serious consequences for the (ir)responsible owners. Would being put in a room with savage pit bulls be “cruel and unusual” punishment for someone who trained their dogs to be that way and caused serious harm to others? (I know the answer would have to be “yes” given the state of affairs, but don’t you think it would be a good deterrent? Train your dog as mean as you want, as long as you know it will get the opportunity for your own neck.)
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 8/22/2007 @ 12:35 pmSuppose some owners train their pit bulls to be fighters, some to be normal, friendly dogs. If we elminate pit bulls, the first group of owners will just train other dogs. At least now, when you see a pit bull you know it is probably dangerous and if you see another breed you know it is probably okay. Eliminating pit bulls may mean we have the same number of dangerous dogs, we just don’t know who they are.
TomHynes (6c3e12) — 8/22/2007 @ 12:44 pmPit bulls are more dangerous than other dogs because other dogs, when they attack, generally seek your submission and stop when they get it; pit bulls aren’t like that: they fight to kill, as they have been bred to.
But a far greater predictor of a dog’s danger is the profile of the owner. Gladwell did a nice write-up of this once … yes, here it is.
Perhaps a better way to handle it would be to declare pit bulls a potentially dangerous animal and require a special license to keep one, one that requires the owner to train the dog properly and to provide proof of same, and for ongoing inspection of the dog as necessary (e.g. if the neighbors say it was stalking the kids).
The typical problem owner of a pit bull is a single loner with a chip on his shoulder; you know the type. They will eschew pit bulls if pit bulls are no longer the path of least resistance.
ras (adf382) — 8/22/2007 @ 1:03 pmTomHynes,
Yes, the single loners might indeed just switch to another breed, but no other breed has the same innate killer instinct in a fight as does a pit.
And if I’m wrong on that last pt and it turns out that there is one, or a new one is developed, then the same licensing restrictions can be extended to include it.
ras (adf382) — 8/22/2007 @ 1:06 pmDon’t many communities already regulate pit bulls?
DRJ (bfe07e) — 8/22/2007 @ 1:06 pmBTW, here in Victoria, BC we look at your wimpy mutts and say, “That’s not a dog; now this is a dog!”
ras in the land of giants (adf382) — 8/22/2007 @ 1:15 pmSeveral points:
1. What most people are calling a Pit Bull is in reality an American Staffordshire Terrier.
2. Most people are unable to reliably identify the breed of a pure bred dog. It’s even more difficult with a mixed-breed dog.
3. Most people seem to think that any large dog that is agressive toward people or animals is a Pit Bull.
4. ALL terriers are by nature agressive. It goes with the general breed.
5. While there are individual exceptions most dogs are vicious because they’ve been allowed or trained to be that way.
I had a mixed-breed Pit Bull for over 14 years. She was about 70 pounds of solid muscle. She was a terrific watchdog, a fun companion for my son, and a great protector for my wife. I really miss her,
Frank Veracity (52a2c1) — 8/22/2007 @ 4:57 pmFOrmer roommate had a pitbul AND a rotweiler, and both were very calm and wonderful animals. Even yelling and other such things didn’t get them worked up.
It is indeed the owners, but certainly it takes a specific kind of owner to train them properly.
And raise your hand if you were surprised by what the owners said (“We’re totally shocked, they’ve never been agressive, we’re so sorry…”)…
Scott Jacobs (c0db90) — 8/23/2007 @ 5:25 amMy ex-wife’s grandparents lived in the middle of bumfuzz, nowhere, Georgia. Next-door neighbor had a rottie named Duke. One day I’m outside trying to catch butterflies for the wife and Duke comes up to me out of nowhere and without warning or provocation starts licking my hand. I nearly dropped the butterfly net on my foot, which would have left a nasty bruise. Such a dangerous dog!
I’m honestly not surprised by the owners’ statement. Some people don’t think their dog is “aggressive” if it’s not trying to bite you. The “problem” with pit bulls and rottweilers that I have seen comes from inattentive owners who think that allowing the dog to be aggressive is “the right thing to do” since it’s (ostensibly) a breed trait, or even the ones who think (because of all those insipid “big stupid dog” movies) that being knocked over and pinned, even by a happy-waggy-licky dog, is “cute”. The people I have known who have properly trained the dogs have docile, friendly dogs who can still attack on command only if need be.
On the other hand, my ex-wife’s best friend’s roommate (wow, that really isn’t as convoluted as it sounds) had the Chihuahua From Hell.
Rick Wilcox (71646f) — 8/23/2007 @ 11:14 amI’ve lived, played, and worked with dogs my entire life. I’ve never been bitten, by any dog, ever, despite venturing into their territory, taking bones away, and very exuberant ‘play.’ The most aggressive dogs I’ve found are the small ones; those tend to be the ones I can’t work with and have to be more careful/reserved around.
All the pit bulls I’ve had to deal with have been incredibly gentle animals with sweet dispositions. One memorable one did present a problem: she’s submissively pee every time I rang the doorbell…the owner didn’t like to have to clean the carpet; so I just called the neighbor and had them come over instead.
Do they have impressive musculature, jaws that can cause lethal injuries, etc.? Yes.
So do German Shepherds. My last dog was one; my father’s dog is one. Nobody I’ve met has ever advocated doing away with them–and I hope no one ever does. So I can’t imagine a responsible pit bull owner viewing such a proposal well either. It’s a dog…no more, no less.
The problem isn’t this breed, or any other; it’s how they are socialized or trained. Dogs were domesticated thousands of years ago.
People who train dogs to kill (or fail to socialize them) are much more dangerous. It’s more important to educate the owners than eliminate an entire breed of dog. We don’t need a ‘final solution’ for pit bulls or any other dog. The dogs are not the problem.
Should the particular dogs that Vick trained to kill, or the ones who attacked the person in question, be destroyed? Sadly, yes. They’ve been spoiled and are no longer controllable.
But to extend this from mistreated or mistrained individuals to an entire breed is beyond an over-reaction.
Kazak (e8315f) — 8/23/2007 @ 2:30 pmJD–I wouldn’t call bikes irresponsible, but they certainly are not for those who don’t know what they are doing on them. Here’s a series of posts from a man who loves them, but gave them up because he decided it wasn’t worth the risk, initiated by news of a death described in the first post. But it’s the third that’s most eloquent.
http://www.two–four.net/weblog.php?id=P3144
kishnevi (01ba98) — 8/23/2007 @ 4:47 pmhttp://www.two–four.net/weblog.php?id=P3145
http://www.two–four.net/weblog.php?id=P3146
St. Bernards. Meanest mo-foes around. Pit Bull can break your arm with a bite, Bernies can take your entire limb off. Talk to animal control types and they will tell you. Incredibly strong animals and can turn way nasty on a dime. Pit Bulls have garnered an underserved reputation that from what I can tell due to their popularity with idiot-type people (macho air-heads) who knowingly exploit certain aspects of their natures. The resulting over-breeding creates problems as it does and/or could with other breeds. If St. Bernards didn’t slobber so much, we could just as easily be discussing them.
Praxis7 (3d6c14) — 8/23/2007 @ 4:59 pmI’m glad I read your links, Kishnevi. It was eloquent.
DRJ (bfe07e) — 8/23/2007 @ 5:03 pmScott JacobsFrank Veracity:Potato, potahto. The name “American Staffordshire Terrier” is a P.C. invention of the AKC, the same registry that was too P.C. to register the breed at all until the UKC had beaten them to the punch. I don’t know of a single dog registry in the world that recognizes “American Staffordshire Terriers” and “American Pit Bull Terriers” as two separate breeds. Do you?
RAS:
Nonsense. Pits are just as happy to win a fight by submission rather than death as any other breed. What sets them apart is not how they behave when they are winning, but when they are losing. This is because of the pit’s unusually high tolerance for pain, which causes him to fight on when when other dogs would have the good sense to submit. Meanwhile, as long as the losing dog won’t stop, of course the winning dog won’t, either. He’s winning, after all.
While this (in-)famous tolerance for pain came about for disgusting reasons, it’s not without its redeeming qualities. The very same trait that causes dog fights to be longer and bloodier also causes pet pits to put up with a lot more crap than other dogs would. When kids pull tails and yank ears, other dogs bite, while pits are barely fazed.
Xrlq (6c2116) — 8/23/2007 @ 6:22 pmUmmm… I didn’t call them that, That was Frank, #25…
I would think that a propperly trained and socialized pitbull would, for the reason you describe make great home-guard dogs.
I want an animal that won’t stop defending me, even when it’s lost. There’s something amazing about that, to me. It sounds like a marine or something…
Though if I get a dog again, I’ll either get a Westie, or a german shepard…
Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 8/23/2007 @ 7:28 pmOh, come on. “Register pit bulls like guns?” Like a license will keep the damn dog from biting you! Besides, the frickin’ criminals won’t register their guns, what makes you think they’ll register their dogs? Pretty much every local government here in the Kansas City Metro requires owners of pit bulls to register them…yet you still hear of a pit bull attack here about once a month or so…always from an unregistered dog.
I don’t have much experience with pit bulls, but the few examples of the breed I’ve encountered over the years seemed to be friendly and stable animals. On the other hand, my family – parents, grandparents and aunt – have owned and raised Dobermans for the better part of forty years, so I’m used to dealing with large and potentially agressive dogs.
Back in the 1970s, when my parents bought our first Doberman, the Dobies were becoming the status symbol of badness among society’s assholes (taking over that role from German Shepherds). There was discussion among dog breeders at the time that so many irresponsible people were buying Dobermans that the breed was being ruined (and a few breeders advised my folks not to buy one, for that reason.) Of course, they were saying the same thing about German shepherds, too…
Needless to say, my family hasn’t had any problems with the various Dobermans we’ve had over the years; they’ve all been fantastic dogs.
Then in the 1980s, the “bad” crowd abandoned the Doberman for Rottweilers, and the same sort of horror stories that once involved Dobies and German Shepherds started circulating about Rotties as well. And then in the ’90s society’s asshole element discovered the pit bull, and, well…in the case of the pit bull, they may well have ruined the breed. Still, that’s hardly the fault of the dog…and besides, the dog issue is like the gun issue: When you start restricting or banning breeds, where do you stop?
And why should responsible pet owners be treated as criminals through onerous registration requirements and other restrictions, any more than responsible gun owners?
Wes S. (cfed68) — 8/23/2007 @ 8:22 pmkishnevi at 29:
Many thanks for the links to “two-four” blog. Great posts by an ex motorcyclist.
Gale H (710dbc) — 8/24/2007 @ 1:11 amScott, sorry for the goof, I fixed the reference to Frank. As for pits as guard dogs, I think it depends on what you want the dog to guard. They make great four-legged bodyguards, generally behaving as total sweethearts until/unless someone threatens their owners – and then they turn into exactly the devil-dog you’d hope they’d become in that situation. But they’re not bred to be territorial, so they won’t do a very good job of defending your property while you’re away. Some burglars may be deterred by the mere presence of a pit bull, of course, but a dog-savvy burglar will just say “nice doggie” and pat him on the head, and from your dog’s perspective, he’s just made a new friend. Meanwhile, the burglar will help himself to all of your belongings – including your pit bull.
Xrlq (6c2116) — 8/24/2007 @ 2:52 amYou can edit your posts?
Totally unfair…
[I can edit yours, too, if I wanted to. Neener. -X]
Scott Jacobs (c0db90) — 8/24/2007 @ 5:01 amWhy these two dogs weren’t shot on sight baffles me… it’s hard to imagine police officers from where I’m from (Texas) responding to a report of a dog attack and shots fired without having their guns drawn. That’s assuming that a neighbor didn’t already finish the job.
Regardless of why the dogs attacked this woman, what breed the dogs were is irrelevant. Any mid-sized to large breed can, and will, given the right circumstances, seriously harm human beings. This includes “family friendly” breeds like Labradors, Dalmatians, and Collies. The only reason that Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Dobermans, and German Shepherds have bad reputations is because of their attractiveness to bad owners. It’s the same reason why proportionally more murders are committed with Glocks than with any other handgun… nothing to do with the gun, everything to do with the bad people who are attracted to it.
Soothsayer (549c80) — 8/24/2007 @ 4:33 pmtoday I witnessed a relatives’ pit bull attack their own family member for reasons unknown to any of the five people who saw the event. The owner came up with this “the dog thought she was going to touch it’s ball” and “we aren’t sure if the wound is from a tooth or a toe nail” I’m afraid for the family and the neighbors, what can you do?
donna (88d7f9) — 8/26/2007 @ 8:06 pmIf it were me, I’d tell them to have the dog put down or, if they can’t bear the thought, shipped off to an animal sanctuary. Dogs who attack people should not be tolerated. Pit bulls who attack people over something that stupid should REALLY not be tolerated. Dog aggression is a “normal” problem for that breed. Aggression toward humans is not.
Xrlq (6c2116) — 8/27/2007 @ 4:26 pm