It’s definitely part of my DNA.

It may be a piece of our genetic code. Civilization came about because we went from hunter-gatherers who only killed animals to agrarians who domesticated and raised animals. That those genes may be missing from some of us may also be part of the reason we need police and prisons.

Yes, definitely. I would like to see Michael Vick in this football field, too.

“An NAACP leader said Michael Vick should be allowed to return to the NFL, preferably the Atlanta Falcons, after serving his sentence for his role in a dogfighting operation.

“As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football,” said R.L. White, president of the group’s Atlanta chapter. “We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country.”

After all, it was only a dog:

“White said he regretted that the plea deal will mean all the facts of the case might never be known. “Some have said things to save their own necks,” White said. “Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being.” White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.

“His crime is, it was a dog,” White said.”

wls,

Do you really believe that the Founding Fathers, steeped as they were in Blackstone would approve of government agents sneaking onto someone’s property like burglars, looking at private effects, taking some without leaving an inventory and doing god knows what because the subject of the investigation or his lawyer isn’t there to monitor and assure that everything is above board–and if it wasn’t above board–having no access to facts that would enable him to complain to a Judge about planting of evidence or destruction of exculpatory evidence? Moreover, having this repeated over periods of time with no recourse to the courts as to any problems with the warrant, search or conduct of the agents because you don’t know about it?

I don’t think the fact that this is pursuant to warrant makes this reasonable. A warrant is not a magic wand which makes all things kosher and reasonable. Look at the Kathryn Johnston case. Also, I don’t think the 4th amendment means that a search is per se reasonable solely because of the existence of a warrant.

I’m not going to be able to outdebate you on technical issues or case law regarding the 4th amendment. I know, for instance, that Brennan turned the 4th amendment debate away from the importance of property to a debate about individual liberties. I just find these searches to be unreasonable because there is no real way to hold the agents accountable for what they do as they sneak and peek–because they are the only ones there.

It is bad enough when agents serve warrants or administrative demands (like on my clients). I have one client whose defense hinges on one exculpatory document that the State took and now claims it can’t find. At least it’s on the inventory. Had the agents snuck in to take it and then it disappeared–they could make a case that my client lied about its existence.

And, yes, I think that some agents would do such a thing. As Lord Acton said, “power corrupts”.

nk,

I hope that you didn’t think my comment was directed at you. I totally agree that we should hold the legislative branch responsible for the overreaching of the Federal government into criminal matters. From what I read, Congressmen actually voted on the Patriot Act without reading it. And yes, we elected them.

The gargantuan growth of the Federal Government is exactly why I joined the Revolution. The Ron Paul Revolution. I want the Federal Government cut down to size and the Republican platform actually implemented.

More significantly, the manner in which the indictment alleges what went on leads me to suspect there were gov’t witnesses that haven’t yet been identified. In other words, the govt’s case was stronger than simply the word of Vick against the word of his friends with criminal records who were going to testify against him.

As to what the judge will consider at sentencing, you are correct that those things you mention do weigh in Vick’s favor. Vick will have an opportunity to present evidence of his good character in order to show his crimes to be isolated instances. Friends, family, and business associates can write letters of support to the judge.

But, even with that, I still think Vick is looking at 24+ months — not less than 12 as his attorneys are suggesting might be the case.

For example, you now say that you think delayed notification is antithetical to the principles of liberty and the original intent of the 4th Amendment.

The 4th Amendment states: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

It says nothing about giving notice to the person subject to the search. That requirement was imposed by Congress, just as the 10 day limitation was imposed by Congress and the “only search between 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.” limit was imposed by Congress. The “delayed notification” provision of the PATRIOT Act simply changes the limits Congress previously imposed, and does no violence to the 4th Amendment.

And, the ability to obtain “sneak and peak” warrants existed previously in certain situations. In 1997 I obtained a warrant to place a videocamera inside the garage of a residence while the suspects were gone in order to watch loads of heroin arrive in vehicles that were dismantled behind closed doors inside the garage. That camera was in operation for 4 months. Every 30 days we had to go back to the Judge and justify why we could not give notice to the occupant of the house that we were in the process of “searching” the activities in the garage. We also installed microphones inside the garage, but because those were intercepting conversations, that had to be done with a separate Title III wiretap warrant.

That was a “sneak and peek” warrant, and it was pre-9/11.

I hope you remember from earlier threads that you and I more often agree than disagree. And I try very hard not to gratuitously insult anyone. But how on earth can we blame the courts or the prosecutors for something that is preventable by the democratic process? Taking it a step further — there is no responsibility without power. By blaming the courts and prosecutors are we not ceding their power to act as they do? We should blame ourselves for the legislators we have elected.