I know you were being totally sincere in thanking me for the offer above, and you’re welcome.

I was responding to your query about “why the offer”.
I understand why you took my previous comments as patronizing. They sounded that way whether I meant it as patronizing or not, and you had little information to judge by. I wanted to openly reference that exchange without revisiting it.* I offered my thought that this exchange was free from projecting such “vibes”.**

The political scene in Madison is probably unchanged in the following way: The bulk of the student body are simply students from Wisconsin going to the state school, interested in getting enough education for a good job and enjoying themselves in the meantime. There are some students there among undergrads who recognize it for the top-flight institution that it is. Then there are a few who are politically active and very vocal. Grad students probably appreciate it more either for the education or the political climate.
-In the 60’s the militant and vocal few led the protests while the majority (of participants) were more of the “Hey man, make luv, not war” crowd. This was seen after the bombing. The militants thought it would ignite the revolution. They felt betrayed when instead, the bulk of the protesters said, “Hey, wait a minute, I thought we were against war, not for blowing up people”, and the momentum quickly ebbed.
-In the 70’s and 80’s, the vocal minority controlled student govt., etc., for awhile, which was seen as increasingly irrelevant to most students. In reaction, the “Pail and Shovel” Party won an overwhelming majority in the late 70’s with such promises as holding the biggest “toga party” ever, and “bringing culture to the Midwest by having the Statue of Liberty flown to Madison and placed on Picnic Point” (a narrow point of land sticking into Lake Mendota, around whose southern shoreline the university is wrapped around. Leon Varjian, one of the two top rulers of the party and a native of the Northeast, explained he came to the UW because he “could smell the beer all of the way from New Jersey”.
During episodic strikes of the TAA during this period, picketers were heard to say, “This is great, just like the 60’s” as they sang Woody Guthrie songs in front of building entrances.

-MD in Philly

I do recall that exchange, and I was worried that you might recall it as well when I responded to your post. Let me assure you, I was totally sincere in thanking you for your offer, and did not think it patronizing in any way.

Also, Madison’s reputation for militant liberalism is what drew me to it in the first place – not because I want to participate in said activity, per se, but because I want to observe it. I’ve studied SDS and the Weathermen on and off for years, and I’ve talked personally with one of the organization’s founders (who considers his past work an utter fiasco). Essentially, I like the idea of a politically charged atmosphere, and Madison seems as good a candidate as any for such a thing.

I meant if you needed any info/questions answered re “Madison”. I probably know some of the Chemistry faculty who are still there, including an undergrad chum who is on faculty there now, so I could have given you a personal contact. (It’s the Midwest, no pretentiousness, even for Nobel Prize winners). I think it’s a great place. Currently UW brags as having the most grads of any university who are CEO’s of Fortune 500 companies as well as the most grads in the Peace Corps. Beautiful campus (if you like snow part of the year).

I do not know much about the poli sci department, except I expect it is about as left as you can be and still be “east of the Mississippi River”. They’ve probably been trying to make up for the years Dick Cheney studied there. At the UW, Berkeley is referred to as “the Madison of the West Coast”(FWIW).

If you can find it, there is a documentary titled “The War at Home” made in the 70’s about Madison in the Vietnam war era, including the bombing of the math research center. It’s surreal to see the National Guard troops in battle gear, and interviews with full-fledged anarchists who thought they were going to start the revolution to topple the US government. The Weatherman types were definitely not “just anti-war protesters”. (Note- For the benefit of anyone searching for worrisome terms like those in the preceding sentences, those people were crazy. I have no sympathy for them, mainly amazement that such types were around.)

For not being “the most polite or agreeable person” you seem intellectually honest. (Even though we often disagree). You may or may not recall our interchange quite some time ago regarding the role of experience, and whether I was being patronizing (your view) or trying to give perspective (my view). I don’t want to revisit that debate, but I don’t think you can claim patronizing with this post.

FWIW, “Uncle Jimbo” at Blackfive is Madison based, so there is at least one conservative still there. (Look up his YouTube site and you can see coverage of the “Impeach Bush Rally”, otherwise known as the 4th of July celebration.)

I did ask if you went to the University of Wisconsin, but I’m a political science major, not a chemistry major (which is one of the reasons I like this blog so much: constant political debate).

I am indeed interested in going to grad school at said university (along with several others, including Berkeley); I’ve also given thought to law school (even after Pablo gave me that legal-lingo ass-whupping a couple of weeks ago, regarding the definition of assault).

“[Is there] any other particular interest that I can help with?”

-MD in Philly

Though I appreciate the offer, I’m not exactly sure what you mean. Are you talking about references, putting in a good word, etc.? If that’s the case, I’m not yet to the point where I need to be getting such things in order: I’m just starting my fourth semester…

Why the extension of such an offer, by the way? I’ve never been the most polite or agreeable person on this site… though I do sincerely appreciate the gesture.

You’re right. Closing down “the snakepits” started in the ’60s. But I believe that we finally threw out the baby with the bathwater in the ’80s when we defunded alternatives to “One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest”.

Did you eventually decide that the judge gave the long sentence with the aim of being merciful in helping the fellow get care, or that it worked out that way, whether the judge meant it that way or not?

It’s kind of like that Mark Twain quip (roughly): “When I was seventeen, I thought my father was the most stupid man in the world. When I turned eighteen, I was amazed at how much smarter he had gotten in a year.” Two years out of law school (and my pre-law job monitoring and critiquing the criminal justice system) I was the smartest fellow in the courtroom. Twenty-three years later, I would say that the judge balanced compassion for the human being before him with his duty to uphold the law and protect society.

1. Sheriff Lee Baca is seeking the power to force thousands of inmates to be placed on detention in their homes
Whether there is a down-side to the plan or not, isn’t this a peculiar wording of the topic?
It sounds like an old Carson “Karnak” joke:
The Answer- Inmates who compliment the prison chef.
The Question- Which inmates are threatened with detention at home if they cause trouble?

2. “many more inmates would be deprived of the medical and mental healthcare they get behind bars” [If placed on house arrest]

Background information:
-Baca: “a short-term solution to the jail overcrowding problem that has forced him to release thousands of inmates after they served only a fraction of their sentences.” … “the sheriff expects to assign about 2,000 inmates with low-level offenses to involuntary home detention, … wear electronic ankle bracelets”
“It will help me keep people in jail who need to stay in jail, including domestic violence offenders.”

-At times, home detention has been controversial. When Baca sent Paris Hilton home from jail last month, an outcry rose from the public and prosecutors. … Sen. Jeff Denham (R-Salinas) cited the Hilton case in explaining why he voted against the bill.
“I object, your honor. Tangential and pointless to the issue at hand.”
“Sustained”

- … many inmates do not apply — betting that they will be released from jail in a few days because of the early release policy
- Los Angeles County is under a court order to end overcrowding, so some inmates are released after serving only 25% of their time
- The bill would allow the … county’s correctional administrator … to require participation in the home detention program when … prisoners would otherwise face early release because of a lack of jail space.

Specific Claims and Counter-claims:
- “the new program will make it even harder” [to get medical and mental health care] “This bill may allow jails to place individuals who need critical medical or psychiatric care in home detention without identified services or funding to pay for these services,” said Margaret Jakobson-Johnson of Protection and Advocacy Inc
In addition, … “Release on home detention without housing, or a clear plan to find housing quickly, may do more harm to an individual,” she said.
-(Counter) “proposed legislation would allow those assigned to home detention to receive vocational and housing assistance and to leave home for psychological and medical care, said state Sen. George Runner (R-Lancaster), a coauthor of the bill. He said the county does not give up its obligation to provide inmates with healthcare just because they are assigned to home detention.
“What’s happening now is these people are being released after a few days and sent home, or are not serving any time in jail. In those circumstances, they are not getting any care anyway.”

Decision:
We find:
1. the charges are without merit
2. if the charges as described by Margaret Jakobson-Johnson were supported by the evidence, the apparent remedy would be a new standard of life imprisonment without parole for all criminals who do not have reasonable housing, and/or access to medical and mental health care, and/or the inability to cooperate with med./MH care, limiting their degree of improvement.

Epilogue: Yes, there are many problems with health care in the United States due to many factors. But the logical conclusion of the argument against the plan is an unintended, impractical, and unsupportable consequence. Without the measure many convicted criminals will be “loose on the streets” earlier than called for, and without the oversight of the criminal justice system to assist in getting adequate housing and care.

One problem with health care is cost shifting, different components of the system always want to avoid paying what they can and make somebody else pay, instead. This tends to make everyone losers in the long run. There will be money saved by the county in not needing to build extra prison space, but who is going to pay for the increased “benefits” of those on house arrest, and for the additional staffing to “keep an eye” on them??

Additional:
nk- Did you eventually decide that the judge gave the long sentence with the aim of being merciful in helping the fellow get care, or that it worked out that way, whether the judge meant it that way or not? Might there be problems if the judge vocalized that kind of reasoning? As a physician, I have advocated on several occasions that incarceration would be better for the person’s well being (getting treatment for AIDS instead of a downward spiral while doing drugs, etc.)
Also, I thought the decrease in hospital facilities for the chronically mentally ill began long before Regan. I would be interested if you have a specific link/reference regarding the issue.

Leviticus- Previously you asked if I went to the Univ. of Wisconsin, and if I recall correctly you are a chemistry major. (Or am I confusing you with someone else?) Are you interested in going to Grad school there, or any other particular interest that I can help with?

My mom is a nurse practitioner who deals with patients with Hepatitis C on a regular basis. She plans on taking her experience in this field to a medium security prison in Colorado when she retires.

She once heard a story of a prison warden who made a statement along the following lines (and I paraphrase): “If we don’t treat prisoners with Hep C while they’re in prison, they will continue to spread Hep C when they get out of prison.”

If prisons seek to protect society from dangerous people, it makes sense to nullify the very thing that makes the dangerous people dangerous, whether that is Hep C or mental illness, so that prisoners will no longer pose a threat to society when they are released… but a lot of people (cough, cough) seem to think that mental illness is nothing more than a straw man that criminals hide behind to receive alleviated sentences. Well, some undoubtedly do. But the majority undoubtedly don’t.

And once again, the more nk speaks, the more I respect him. He’s absolutely right: we can pay for treatment and solve the problem, or we can pay for punishment and delay it.

Or we can, in combination of his paranoid schizophrenia with criminal behavior, commit him against his will indefinitely in a mental hospital.

Be prepared for a tsunami of abuse. Plenty of criminals will claim to be mentally ill just to get put in a mental hospital…and be “cured” in 6 months.

I’m not opposing you, nk, just noting that the solution may be harder to live with than the problem.