Patterico's Pontifications

7/8/2007

Technical Bleg

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:43 am



I have a Treo 650 and bought a 2 MB San Disk card to put .mp3s on. I put a CD in the laptop, convert the files into .mp3s, and they go into folders in my “My Music” folder. I then copy the files onto the SD card, which is plugged into the laptop.

I have noticed that the card stops accepting files once it gets to about 400-500 MB of the 2 GB capacity. After poking around the Internet, I tried two solutions, and neither worked, for different reasons.

First, I tried organizing the files into folders on the SD card, after reading somewhere that the root folder can accept only so many files. But when I transfer the card to the phone, and fire up Real Player, it won’t recognize any songs that aren’t in the root folder.

Next, I tried reformatting the SD card to FAT32 formatting. That worked great as far as getting the card to accept more files — I got past 1 GB with no problems. But then, when I inserted the card into the phone, it didn’t recognize it because of the formatting.

Any useful advice? By “useful” I don’t mean “Junk the 650” or “Get an iPhone” or something else along those lines. Also, if you’re going to suggest something complicated, like a hack on the phone that will allow it to read FAT32 formatting, I’d appreciate detailed instructions, because I don’t have a lot of technical ability.

Any help would be much appreciated.

19 Responses to “Technical Bleg”

  1. It could easily be a limitation of the Treo itself; are you sure it supports SD cards bigger than 512 MB?

    Michael Heinz (de4335) — 7/8/2007 @ 10:53 am

  2. Does the SD card have a folder with some “free” software on it like an encryption program or such? You might see if that is using up capacity you think you ought to have.

    Robin Roberts (6c18fd) — 7/8/2007 @ 10:55 am

  3. It could easily be a limitation of the Treo itself; are you sure it supports SD cards bigger than 512 MB?

    Yes.

    Does the SD card have a folder with some “free” software on it like an encryption program or such?

    No.

    Patterico (2a65a5) — 7/8/2007 @ 10:59 am

  4. It sounds reminiscent of a similar problem I had years ago putting data on a Zip Drive. The answer there was to make folders and load files into them, rather than “a gazillion” of free standing files on the Zip Drive. So, FWIW, it sounds like you’re on the right track.

    Can you make folders within the root folder, then load the files into several “subfolders”?

    If you can’t get over the hump, and no one comes to your aid, I would check out http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/ and ask James Kendrick if there is nothing easily found on the sight. He is my first and last resource on anything that computes or stores data, is electronic, and can be moved.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 7/8/2007 @ 11:06 am

  5. I have a 2GB SanDisk SD card and I can load a huge amount of files on it in the root folder, most of which are smaller than a typical music file, so I’m surprised you’re having this issue.

    Under this thread, RWood says:

    “There is no known limit that I found.

    “I loaded a 2 GB SanDisk SD card with 740 mp3 files and inserted it while the Reader was on. In less than 2 minutes the wait arrows faded and and the Audio section reported 740 songs. So far so good.

    “I then removed the card and added another 321 mp3s. After reinserting the Audio read 1,061 songs. To test if they would play, I played a sample of them. No problem in playing them. I then removed the card and deleted the files.”

    Now granted he’s talking about using the SD card with a different piece of hardware than you have, but the point is he has no difficulty loading the root of the 2GB SanDisk SD card with any number of audio files.

    If you can’t even load the files from your PC, I think this is the problem… not the Treo.

    Have you tried a different high capacity SD card to see whether it’s possible to load all your files in its root?

    Christoph (8741c8) — 7/8/2007 @ 12:02 pm

  6. Patterico, your spam filter ate my previous comment and it won’t let me try resubmitting it through I.E. because of “duplicate comment detected”.

    If you could restore it, hopefully you’ll find it helpful.

    Why does your spam filter, incidentally, often eat up comments submitted through the excellent Firefox web browser, but allow them if sent through I.E. 7?

    That’s very frustrating.

    Christoph (24f655) — 7/8/2007 @ 12:05 pm

  7. A couple things.

    I never reformatted my card when I used the 650 (I upgraded to a 755p) but it was only a 512MB card. However I could always read it with XP when I hooked it up to a USB doodad that accepted the SD cards. So it might have been FAT32 all along.

    At any rate, using Real Player, all of my MP3s were in a folder called DCIM. If I ever put the MP3s other places, they were not recognized. Now I actually might be confusing DCIM with the pictures as well as the MP3s, but I think putting the MP3s in the root directory may be a mistake. I always moved the data manually – I never hot synched the MP3s over. In fact, I couldn’t hotsynch for a long time.

    Also, make sure that files you drag over from iTunes (if that’s your source) are actually MP3s, because AAC (MP4) will not be recognized.

    Cobb (efc2fa) — 7/8/2007 @ 3:18 pm

  8. Cobb, I too move the files manually. I am trying your solution right now. Instead of moving everything to the root directory, I am moving them to the DCIM folder. I’ll let you know if it works.

    Patterico (2a65a5) — 7/8/2007 @ 3:38 pm

  9. Well, Cobb, everything moved, but Real Player on the Treo says no playable songs can be found.

    Patterico (2a65a5) — 7/8/2007 @ 3:46 pm

  10. Silly question, but as someone who used to troubleshoot the Treo650 (before passing harder cases up the line to tech support proper) for AT&T Wireless and Cingular, have you tried calling your provider and seeing if they can help you solve the issue? Or, because this isn’t a network issue, calling Treo?

    Christoph (8741c8) — 7/8/2007 @ 3:56 pm

  11. From online Treo650 manual.
    “Create an SD_Audio folder in the root directory of the card, and store your MP3 files in this folder.” Using your Treo 650 smartphone

    I enjoy your blog.

    EDP (0c10e6) — 7/8/2007 @ 5:22 pm

  12. Are you treating the files as files, here, or are you having the Palm and PC Real Players hash this out between the two of them?

    I’ve got a Zire 71, and the method I was given in the system docs long ago was to run the Palm Real Player while on the cradle. This makes it announce itself as a type of portable player that the PC Real Player will sync with. Yes, having to use Real Player as a go-between to push music onto the Palm is a significant hassle.

    Come to think of it, maybe that’s why I haven’t changed the playlist on my Palm’s SD card in forever…

    PCachu (e072b7) — 7/8/2007 @ 6:28 pm

  13. I had a similar experience. I had a bunch tunes I had made with WinAMP and had trouble getting a file management plug-in to see them all.

    At some point WinAMP started generating .M4A’s instead of .MP3’s. I’m not sure, but I don’t think it started with a major update, but in more of an incremental update.

    jpm100 (44e950) — 7/8/2007 @ 6:34 pm

  14. Hi.
    Longtime reader, first time writing a comment, and fellow Southern Californian. I know you asked for only useful advice, but I am compelled to whine about Treo.
    I started with Treo way back from when they switched from a Palm device to a smartphone (I think 270?), then upgraded to I think color (290? 300?) and drooled over the new models. The basic models seemed to work fine and do what they were supposed to do, but the fancy ones (600?) were just fair.
    Mine began having problems just after the one-year warrantee expired, and by the time I found out the phone was a lemon – after trying to fix it on my own for a while and going through their technical departments – they said I was out of luck and had to purchase a new one, but hey the 650 (?) was great. As I spoke with more and more people who owned Treo, they all commented that theirs stopped functioning about a year after purchase.
    When I finally broke down and bought a 650, everyone at the Sprint store – and I mean that literally – said that the 600 was a piece of junk and routinely breaks down but the 650 works great. Other than a prettier screen, I saw no significant functional advantage to purchase a 650 – they seem not to have made it much better than the 600 – and while it is generally functional it resets itself frequently.
    I think they have come out with what – 2 dozen new models since then – each with barely any advance over the previous models.
    Honestly, I don’t know what the Treo people have been doing over the last 3-5 years, as there seems to me to have been very little improvement in their devices.
    Finally, now that a clearly better device comes along – iPhone – I don’t see how Treo will be able to stay in business for more than a couple of years. Blackberry owners I can see staying with Blackberry for slick email, and style conscious people will always go for a Razor type phone, but I don’t see how anyone interested in functionality will continue to use a crummy machine like Treo.
    Sorry for ignoring your request about “useful information,” but I have been reading you, powerline, Hugh Hewitt, and Captain Ed for a while with not much to comment on, (felt some affinity for a fellow SoCal resident) and felt completely compelled to write of my frustration with Treo.
    Keith Brookenthal

    Keith Brookenthal (3b8d30) — 7/8/2007 @ 11:43 pm

  15. Hi again. That was the first time I posted and thought it was actually going to Mr Frey … Gosh – didn’t realize it gets put up there so quickly and uh, publicly. I hope other people have actually better recommendations than mine …
    KB

    Keith Brookenthal (3b8d30) — 7/8/2007 @ 11:45 pm

  16. Here’s the information from the Palm Customer Support Tech Library 

    Note they talk about the files having to be in the “audio” directory.

    Have a treo650 myself with a 2gb card, but I use it mostly for photos

    Hope this helps 

    SlimGuy (ea6549) — 7/9/2007 @ 9:07 am

  17. Patterico – Upgrade to a 700p or the 755p.

    In the alternative, I have always gone to http://www.mytreo.net, and have been able to get every problem resolved that I have encountered.

    JD (040716) — 7/9/2007 @ 10:23 am

  18. According to the help file from the Treo RealPlayer app three different subdirectorys are supported

    SD_Audio (subdirectories supported)

    RN_Audio (subdirectories supported)

    Audio (subdirectories supported)

    Select options then help to view the file. 

    SlimGuy (ea6549) — 7/9/2007 @ 10:23 am

  19. I recently got a Treo 755p and it’s everything I wanted my old Treo 650 to be although the 650 gave me very few problems. The big difference is that it has about 60 MB of native memory. The browser is way faster and operates more logically. The camera is better and the headphones that come with it sound better.

    So far there have been no downsides on the 755p except for battery life. I suspect that may be due to the fact that now that I have a 2GB card, I use it like an iPod all the time. So if I leave the bluetooth off, I get one full day off a charge, which is about all I need.

    I’m rather amazed at the fact that I can watch streaming movies or audio from the Sprint service. The 755p will hold its own against the iPhone – I have no regrets. I do a lot of texting and web browsing. I’m even drawn to the Foleo.

    Cobb (32bf1f) — 7/9/2007 @ 2:32 pm


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