Patterico's Pontifications

6/25/2007

Is Hillary Immune from Scrutiny?

Filed under: 2008 Election,General — Patterico @ 12:03 am

I have a post up at Hot Air that argues that Hillary Clinton may win in part because people are tired of hearing about all the terrible and sleazy things she’s done in her life:

Hillary has more skeletons in her closet than any other candidate on either side of the aisle. But unlike the scary unknown skeletons in the other candidates’ closets, Hillary’s skeletons are familiar, like old friends.

You can read it here.

51 Responses to “Is Hillary Immune from Scrutiny?”

  1. although i agree that everyone is pretty much bored to death about the dirt on hillary, i disagree that americans elect a president based on how much dirt one has or doesnt have in their closet. is it a factor? yes, but name an election for prez that was decided by this.

    james conrad (7cd809)

  2. Two observations: There are ways to re-release the “old” information. I’d look for brand new packaging aimed at the normal voter and not the political junkie types.

    I think people are tired of all of them. Who knows anything about voter preferences fifteen months away? I have a feeling that most of us are sick of the incompetence of the Bush people; bad appointments up and down the line, and so we will look for anyone who can perform.

    AND DON’T FORGET

    Howard Veit (4ba8d4)

  3. AND DON’T FORGET…..the Democratic Congress will hold “show trials” (hearings) of all Republicans on all subjects and that our compliant media will focus on it thus taking the heat off of Hillary.

    Howard Veit (4ba8d4)

  4. Nice analysis. I think it is possible but see it more of a contest for the Republicans to lose than a Hillary march to the oval office.
    I have no idea how Thompson does in a debate but Rudy would probably clean her clock in that venue.
    I think Thompson would lose in a close one unless Hillary really stepped in it somewhere. He is canned and his cornpone approach is fake just like he did when running for senator in Tn more than a decade ago. It would be another split in the electorate similar to 2004 with Ohio and the election going to Clinton.
    If the Republicans want to jump off a cliff they just need to nominate Newt and Hillary gets a solid electoral win and can claim a mandate…

    voiceofreason63 (cfae0f)

  5. Nobody cares crap one about Clintons’ problems. I spent the whole 90s wondering why people just let them skate on some seriously shady dealings. The media of course covered for them even while covering the ‘scandals’. They always managed to frame it so that the story ended up being about their accusors instead of them. And when they actually did do a story about something, that was it. One story, no follow up and they were rarely on the front page. I mean, how many investigations did Janet Reno quash?
    Now? I try to ignore it, it bothers me too much.

    Veeshir (dfa2bf)

  6. Nobody cares crap one about Clintons’ problems

    Well, except for the Clinton Legacy Defenders™. They reject the notion that Hillary’s character and record may in fact matter, and that her running for the presidency makes her background relevant. Any criticism is met with “Leave the Clintons alone, that was the 1990s, it doesn’t matter, etc.”

    “A little bit nutty, a little bit slutty” hasn’t been rolled out to describe people writing about Hillary’s background in the present campaign, but I’m sure it’s just a matter of time.

    And this is coming from a guy who thinks she’s probably the least worst of a disastrously bad set of Democratic candidates.

    Al Maviva (89d0b6)

  7. She did a very good job in the first senate run debates against Larza (ignore the mispelling of name) Her ability to deflect the past shady dealings with responses such as ” this campaingn is about the future”

    joe kosanda (fb3542)

  8. Given how the scandals of members of this administration and its cronies are exponentially larger, shouldn’t you be finding other things to talk about: policies maybe?

    AF (4a3fa6)

  9. If I accepted your premise, AF, I’d still say: Bush ain’t running again.

    I understand the next Republican nominee has to deal with his baggage, but using Bush scandals as a direct attack will not be effective.

    My point is, neither will using Clinton-era scandals against Hillary.

    Patterico (2a65a5)

  10. Given how the scandals of members of this administration and its cronies are exponentially larger, shouldn’t you be finding other things to talk about: policies maybe?

    Really? I suppose that may be the case when you make up scandals like the Plame, the US Attys and BUSH LIED!!!! But most rational people don’t see it that way.

    Pablo (99243e)

  11. i’ve long since forgiven her for murdering vincent foster. i’m more troubled by her attempt to take over our healthcare system in secret.

    assistant devil's advocate (3dbb4e)

  12. Pablo forgot Abramoff, Abu Ghraib, warrantless wiretapping, and the worst scandal, that even with a pliant Republican Congress, Bush managed to lose Iraq (and everyone knows it). [Remember, we were supposed to conquer so quickly we’d be down to 30K troops by Xmas 2003, not Xmas 2030.]

    But wait, maybe she had oral sex with Monica in the White House!

    Andrew J. Lazarus (36af38)

  13. Thanks, AF, for proving my point within 90 minutes of me making it.

    Al Maviva (89d0b6)

  14. “Bill and Hillary Clinton and their aides have made a concerted effort to deceive official investigators and the American public with half truths and outright lies.”

    This quote says it all. The obvious lack of respect for the American public she has is not to be dismissed because one who repeatedly deceives so many obviously has zero respect for them. So don’t ever tell me she has my best interest at heart. Anyone who believes they are above the law and above the masses has only their own best interest at heart. Its amazing not once through all the sordid seaminess has she displayed one iota of humble contrition.

    The question is, if she is all these things – which are decidedly not honorable – why is she then, by far, the frontrunner of her party?

    Dana (f29876)

  15. Pablo forgot Abramoff, Abu Ghraib, warrantless wiretapping, and the worst scandal, that even with a pliant Republican Congress, Bush managed to lose Iraq (and everyone knows it).

    Let’s see, Andrew. Abrahmoff worked both sides of the aisle and is not a part of the Administration. Abu Ghraib was a military scandal, and I still don’t know the politics of England and Grenier. Do you, Andrew? It’s only rabid partisan knuckleheads that want to hang that one on the White House, mainly because they’re rabid partisan knuckleheads.

    Warrantless wiretapping continues to this day, in full compliance with the law and the FISA court. And war is not a scandal. War is a challenge and a burden, and it’s far from over. Everyone knows that, including you.

    Thanks, Andrew, for proving my point withing 20 minutes of me making it. Are you and AF a tag team, or what?

    Pablo (99243e)

  16. Hillary will let her flying monkeys lose WHERES MY BALSTER WHERE MY LIGHT SABER

    krazy kagu (484aa9)

  17. If she is not elected, and may she not be, it will not be a problem for her. She can just go into the cattle futures business and make a fortune.

    Fred Beloit (5d97e8)

  18. Patrick, I have your blog in my blogroll and have had for quite some time, but I believe this is the first time I’ve ever attempted a comment.

    I tried to comment over at Hot Air, but it won’t accept my comments and won’t allow me to register, either, and I don’t know why. It says registration is now open again. The previous explains why this comment doesn’t seem to fit in with this comment thread but it fits in very nicely with the thread over there:

    After voting as an independent for decades, I have recently registered Republican. I have come to the conclusion that the very worst Republican is still better than the very best Democrat, and that includes the remote possiblility of voting for McLame if he could somehoe secure the nomination. Thankfully, I don’t see that happening. To paraphrase a popular democrat bumper sticker phrase: “I’d vote for a yellow dog before I’d vote for a Democrat”.

    If Hillary becomes President it won’t be because I didn’t do whatever I can do to prevent it.

    Mark (273e95)

  19. “If I accepted your premise”
    But you don’t, cause you’re “a little bit nutty”

    “Hillary has more skeletons in her closet than any other candidate on either side of the aisle.”
    Giuliani’s pedophile? and the rest of crew of corrupt buffoons?
    Bernie Kerik?
    And you give us Ken Starr again. That’s just funny. Where were you with Halliberton and Enron? this to Kevin Phillips. You remember Phillips right? He worked for Nixon, and was pround of it. Probably still is.
    Are you ever once going to mention any of the books by ex insiders or reporters on the Iraq fiasco?
    “Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq’s Green Zone ”
    “The Price of Loyalty”
    “Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War”
    “The One Percent Doctrine: Deep Inside America’s Pursuit of Its Enemies Since 9/11 ”
    “The End of Iraq: How American Incompetence Created a War Without End ”
    “The Italian Letter: How the Bush Administration Used a Fake Letter to Build the Case for War in Iraq”

    And you give us Whitewater? And how much money did Ken Starr spend to find… what now?
    But nothing on Cheney. Nothing on his claims to being outside the executive branch!

    just for laughs: The South Carolina treasurer and state chairman of the Giuliani campaign was indicted on Tuesday on federal- and you know what ‘federal means here- cocaine charges.

    Here’s more on Whitewater.

    When you start discussing policies I’ll take you seriously.
    goddamn I just did a search of Regnery.com and the only reference to Whitewater I found was in God, Guns, and Rock & Roll by Ted Nugent. It’s the end of the world!

    Robert Lichfield, Romney’s co-chair of his Utah finance committee: another pedophile.
    I just love republicans.
    “Focus on the Family founder James Dobson appeared to throw cold water on a possible presidential bid by former Sen. Fred Thompson while praising former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who is also weighing a presidential run, in a phone interview Tuesday.”
    Mullah Dobson says:
    “Everyone knows he’s conservative and has come out strongly for the things that the pro-family movement stands for,” Dobson said of Thompson. “[But] I don’t think he’s a Christian; at least that’s my impression,” Dobson added, saying that such an impression would make it difficult for Thompson to connect with the Republican Party’s conservative Christian base and win the GOP nomination.”
    I don’t like Hillary much. I don’t like any of them much. I don’t like Hagel much, but I give him a measure of respect.
    Meanwhile you’re tossing bullshit.

    AF (4a3fa6)

  20. I’d say the very real scandals of McCain and Giuliani easily beat Hillary’s imaginary scandals.

    alphie (015011)

  21. Pablo, it’s time for you to try Andrew’s Auschwitz Challenge. Using rules of evidence acceptable for linking the White House’s Yoo-Bybee torture memos, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and other available evidence to Abu Ghraib, connect Auschwitz to Hitler.

    It can’t be done. The neo-Nazi wackos have a better defense than you do.

    Incidentally, you must have missed General Taguba stating that his investigation into Abu Ghraib was constrained to protect higher-ups, and he himself was threatened with retaliation. That’s a scandal.

    You also missed the former head of the FISA Court saying that Bush’s wiretapping was not in conformance with the law. That’s a scandal.

    Bush Devotion Syndrome has claimed you, Pablo. Seek help now.

    Andrew J. Lazarus (7d46f9)

  22. Pablo, it’s time for you to try Andrew’s Auschwitz Challenge. Using rules of evidence acceptable for linking the White House’s Yoo-Bybee torture memos, repudiation of the Geneva Conventions, and other available evidence to Abu Ghraib, connect Auschwitz to Hitler.

    It can’t be done. The neo-N_zi wackos have a better defense than you do.

    Incidentally, you must have missed General Taguba stating that his investigation into Abu Ghraib was constrained to protect higher-ups, and he himself was threatened with retaliation. That’s a scandal.

    You also missed the former head of the FISA Court saying that Bush’s wiretapping was not in conformance with the law. That’s a scandal.

    Bush Devotion Syndrome has claimed you, Pablo. Seek help now.

    Andrew J. Lazarus (7d46f9)

  23. Hey, AF, I think you forgot to mention Prescott Bush funding the Nazi war machine, and George Bush 41 having had a mistress for many many years. Plus a Republican dog catcher in Batavia, NY got popped for driving drunk a couple months ago. I’m trying to help you out man. It’s just not possible to do too much to defend the Clintons. We shouldn’t ask anything at all about anything Hillary or Bill may have done at any time prior to five minutes ago, people. That stuff isn’t relevant. You see, it’s about the FewCher.

    Funny stuff. Man, I wish I could either hate or love the Clintons. Those who bash and those who counter-bash seem to get an almost sexual thrill from doing so. I’m strangely ambivalent towards them, so the only pleasure I can get from them is inciting other people to abase themselves really badly by jousting-by-proxy on Billary’s behalf, or against Billary. I will note that it isn’t possible to make any comment about Billary – even positive – without getting hammered by the Clinton Defending Flying Monkeys, so the Monkeys seem a bit more debased to me than the other sect, but that’s probably more an accident of timing and perspective than hard fact. That doesn’t make it any less funny.

    Al Maviva (89d0b6)

  24. Yes, alphie, we know you will say it – but we also know you can’t never back up anything you say.

    Robin Roberts (6c18fd)

  25. Keating Five ring a bell, Robin?

    alphie (015011)

  26. Travelgate, her futures tarding, hiring those convicted of fraud/birbery, watergate…

    Shall I continue?

    Scott Jacobs (90eabe)

  27. Yes, alphie, we know you will say it – but we also know you can’t never back up anything you say.

    Ain’t that the truth. And alphie’s response is proof positive.

    Pablo (99243e)

  28. Sure it is, Pablo.

    Name one thing that Hillary actually did (as opposed to phony accusations), that compares to the Savings and Loan disaster McCain helped bring about?

    alphie (015011)

  29. You mean the S&L disaster the was brought about by a real estate market crash caused by tax-law shoved through by democrats?

    Do you REALLY want to us that as your best example?

    And I’ll note that your “as opposed to phoney accusations” caries nothing to prove your claim that McCain was even partly to blame for the S&L BS…

    And I’n NO sort of McCain fan. Do you know how ill it makes me to defend him?

    Scott Jacobs (90eabe)

  30. Travelgate?
    Even Ken Starr found said he found no evidence of wrongdoing.
    Not to mention “Serving at the Pleasure of the President” which is your defense of the administration’s actions US Attorney Scandal.
    Get your priorities straight son.
    “hiring those convicted of fraud/birbery[sic], watergate”
    Watergate? WTF?

    Al Maviva,
    I don’t like Clinton, her politics or her policies. And her husband is a scumbag who “ended welfare as we know it.” Even Richard Mellon Scaife has decided in retrospect [no shit!!] that he wasn’t that bad. You know Richard Mellon Scaife, the man who funded The Arkansas Project? I’m sure you’ve all memorized every pamphlet they put out.
    I voted for Bill Clinton twice and held my nose; and I’m not deffending his wife from attacks on her policy positions. But no one’s doing that here are they?
    So Al, please cut the bullshit.

    AF (4a3fa6)

  31. I’m not a Hillary fan Scott, but I’m pretty sure she didn’t have anything to do with Watergate, as you imply.

    alphie (015011)

  32. Yeah AF, because using an office of the whitehouse for personal stuff is just fine. Ask Al Gore…

    I will admit to a miss-type. Meant Whitewater.

    oh, and AF:

    Robert Lichfield, Romney’s co-chair of his Utah finance committee: another pedophile.

    Care to back that up?

    AF, you must have missed this post about her new national campaign co-chair…

    Then there’s the use of the IRS to actually target political enemies, FBI files that got “misplaced”…

    Yeah, that’s one HECK of a sterling rep they all have…

    Scott Jacobs (90eabe)

  33. “You mean the S&L disaster the was brought about by a real estate market crash caused by tax-law shoved through by democrats?”
    Scott, you’re an idiot:

    The savings-and-loan affair is likewise being ascribed to a few dishonest, greedy people. Before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait provided a useful diversion, politicians were scrambling to pin the blame for the S. & L. problem on the other side: Democrats complained of political favoritism and “insider access” (a code word for “Republicans”) and pointed to the alleged improprieties of Neil Bush, the President’s son; Republicans criticized influence-buying and “special interests” (a code word for “Democrats”), and pointed to the fallen Speaker of the House, Jim Wright. In the meantime, some members of Congress were returning contributions they had received from savings-and-loans-institutions that, collectively, have made political contributions of more than ten million dollars over the last decade. But giving back campaign contributions doesn’t address the causes of the savings-and-loan crisis, and all the finger pointing of the Democrats and the Republicans obscures the fact that the laws that made it possible for the savings-and-loans to lose hundreds of billions of dollars of their depositors’ money were written and passed by a Democratic Congress, with strong support from members of both parties, and signed by a Republican President. All the talk of crime and fraud and “S. & L. kingpins” obscures the fact that most of the money lost in the scandal was lost by savings-andloan directors who acted well within those laws. And all the talk of “special interests” obscures the fact that when some of the institutions had already lost hundreds of millions of dollars, and federal regulators wanted to close them down, their directors knew that precious time could be bought by making the right-sized contribution to elected officials of one party or the other-or, sometimes, both.

    The essence of the savings-and-loan scandal is not fraud or corruption, or even influence-buying; it is that elected officials were willing to stand by and allow large-scale swindling of their constituents. Though many people saw the debacle approaching, no one in a position of power seems to have had any interest in preventing it. Indeed, if the savings-and-loan crisis and the fantastic looting of the nation’s treasure which occasioned it prove one thing, it is that the public officials we elect have become -in large part because of the way we elect them-utterly incapable of defending the public interest, or even of recognizing what the public interest is.

    AF (4a3fa6)

  34. Robert Lichfield, Romney’s co-chair of his Utah finance committee: another pedophile.
    “Care to back that up?”
    Read a newspaper.
    Alcee Hasting- No defense from me.

    AF (4a3fa6)

  35. Funny… didn’t pick up a pedo working on a national campaign on any of the screeds…

    Maybe I need to read more Kos…

    Scott Jacobs (90eabe)

  36. AF, that article about the S&L crisis is just nonsense. The “Keating Five” did not cause it, they just were examples of influence peddling. I’m no fan of McCain but its not any larger than Hillary’s own influence peddling scandals. The cause of the crisis was that an unbalanced deregulation passed during the Carter administration that caused savings and loans to invest in low quality commercial real estate loans to try to compete in offering high interest rate savings and CD products. People who focus in Lincoln S&L and Silverado fail to understand that those two S&L’s were an insignificant fraction of the entire S&L assets that the federal government had to deal with.

    Robin Roberts (6c18fd)

  37. I should alos have pointed out that the quoted portion article certainly does not support the claim that Scott is an idiot.

    Robin Roberts (6c18fd)

  38. Not Kos, Scott, try The Hill

    Robin R. try the Garn-St Germain Depository Institutions Act of 1982. Or better yet read what I posted and linked to rather than assuming you know what it says. The S&L Scandal was a bipartisan affair.

    AF (4a3fa6)

  39. Robin,

    The Lincoln S&L failure cost the American taxpayers $3 billion.

    Silverado’s failure cost over $1 billon.

    Madison Guaranty S&L lost $58,000 in the Whitewater farce that is the source of many of the phony charges against Hillary.

    I’d say McCain beats Hillary in “influence peddling” by a wide margin.

    alphie (015011)

  40. “#11

    i’ve long since forgiven her for murdering vincent foster. i’m more troubled by her attempt to take over our healthcare system in secret.

    Comment by assistant devil’s advocate — 6/25/2007 @ 6:00 am”

    Proof? Thought so.

    If the Republicans ran on the issues rather than trotting out all the old chestnuts from the nineties they will do better.
    There are a lot of questionable skeletons but there is zero chance of it being investigated before Nov 08. She comes out weak when debating issues, strong when it looks like a bunch of mean old conservative men dragging up the past.

    voiceofreason63 (cfae0f)

  41. Name one thing that Hillary actually did (as opposed to phony accusations), that compares to the Savings and Loan disaster McCain helped bring about?

    Uh, got us into Bosnia/Kosovo. Cuz she helped bring that about, right?

    Pablo (99243e)

  42. Wow, Pablo,

    Bong hits for history?

    I think you guys had a better chance blaming Hillary for Watergate.

    alphie (015011)

  43. Come on, alphie! You know she was talking to Bubba about it.

    Pablo (99243e)

  44. alphie, you wouldn’t be talking out your ass again would you? According to this source, the Lincoln failure cost the taxpayers “over 2 billion”, not 3 billion.

    And McCain, along with John Glenn, was absolved of any unethical behavior in that incident.

    Doc Rampage (47be8d)

  45. (Fortune Magazine) — One of Hillary Clinton’s most important courtships began early last year, around a formal dinner table at Georgetown’s Four Seasons Hotel. Her targets were Morgan Stanley CEO John Mack and his wife, Christy. Mack was already active politically – but on behalf of Clinton’s political opponents. A Bush “Ranger,” he had raised at least $200,000 for the President’s reelection bid and was one of the most prominent business names on GOP donor lists. At one time his name had circulated as a potential Bush Treasury Secretary.

    But these are strangely fluid political times, with long-held alliances shifting under the weight of an unpopular President, an unpopular war and no obvious White House heir on either side.

    You should be happy, at least happier than I am. What did Gingrich complain about?
    “They stole our ideas!”

    Clinton is Republican light and you bitch like she’s Trotsky. What a country.

    AF (4a3fa6)

  46. Anyone have any idea who the four others of the “Keating Five” were? IIRC, none of them had an “R” after their names; and, they were all Senate Committee Chairmen (McCain was involved only because he was “home-state”).

    And, how about St.Germain’s very lucrative retirement package courtesy of the banking industry?

    If we had hung everyone in DC who had a hand in the S&L debacle, we would have had to import trees.

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  47. AF: if Hillary is GOP-lite, I’ll settle for Trotsky. At least you knew where he stood, and what he stood for.

    Another Drew (8018ee)

  48. Clinton is Republican light and you bitch like she’s Trotsky.

    Well, AF, for once I sort of agree with you. The ‘smartest woman in the world’ is a long way from Trotsky.

    The Democrats are not going to nominate Obama or Edwards. I think she knows that she does not have to cater to the party’s liberal wing to get the nomination.

    She is trying to reassure wealthy campaign contributors that if elected she will govern in their interests and not to worry about any rhetoric she spouts to keep the left wing of her party from deserting her in November for a third party candidate.

    Stu707 (5b299c)

  49. Patterico: Great post. My only quibble is the skeletons’ nicknames: “Cattle Futures Skeleton,” to sound truly “street,” should be “Hunnert Thousan,'” methinks.

    Beldar (a498cf)

  50. Patterico, you’re moving up in the world.
    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/06/winning-through.html

    Although I must confess to preferring his caption.

    kishnevi (a91c66)

  51. WHAT IS PAST IS PROLOGUE

    “The problem was with Bill Clinton, the scandals and rumored scandals, the incubating ones and the dying ones never ended. Whatever moral compass the president was consulting was leading him in the wrong direction. His closets were full of skeletons just waiting to burst out.” FBI Director Louis J. Freeh

    Set the Wayback Machine for 23 August 1995: a hot day in the nation’s capitol. But on the California Coast, a constellation of events was unfolding that would have a cataclysmic effect. Bill Clinton picked up the telephone. Vandelay Industries; Art Vandelay speaking, said Bill. It was his Chief of Staff Leon Panetta, calling from a payphone in Monterey. Vandelay, huh, I’ll Art Vandelay you … muttered Panetta. Bill held the receiver at arms length and gazed at the tasteful floral arrangement that adorned the Oval Office. Leon’s disembodied voice filled the room. What now, asked Hillary. It’s that damn college, mouthed Bill. Hillary nodded; just tell Leon he’ll get whatever he needs. There was, no getting out: http://theseedsof9-11.com

    Peggy McGilligan (fdf775)


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