Patterico's Pontifications

“Do be careful! Don’t lose any of that stuff. That’s concentrated evil. One drop of that could turn you all into hermit crabs. …”

Supreme Being, “Time Bandits”

Dan Collins (1e2e08) — 5/22/2007 @ 4:52 pm

Which part of Greenwalds’s post was “hysterical?”

Seemed pretty calm to me.

alphie (015011) — 5/22/2007 @ 5:05 pm

I love this quote from Ellensburg:

Charles Krauthammer ran to Fox News within 48 hours

Charles Krauthammer has been in a wheelchair for a long time now. Well-researched fellow, that Ellensburg guy…

joeschmo1of3 (2f88a8) — 5/22/2007 @ 5:08 pm

Which part of Greenwalds’s post was “hysterical?”

Seemed pretty calm to me.

Comment by alphie — 5/22/2007 @ 5:05 pm

alpo, you still haven’t learned anything, have you?

Idiot.

Almost as big an idiot as Glenn(s)

N. O'Brain (9056e2) — 5/22/2007 @ 5:24 pm

Hey Glenn even had the time to slip in some anti-Catholic bashing. Of course it hurts his argument that he doesn’t seem to understand what an error term means in statistical sampling, but Glenn isn’t the type to let facts get in his way.

Rich Horton (8018ee) — 5/22/2007 @ 5:58 pm

Haha, N.O.,

I guess not.

And you still haven’t learned to control your anger I see.

Thank goodness for the internets, eh?

alphie (015011) — 5/22/2007 @ 6:01 pm

alphie,

It’s no fun when someone makes you explain the joke.

Greenwald has a habit of taking measured posts by Allah and describing them as “screeching” or “shrieking.” It’s really bizarre, and it strikes me that there is some projection going on.

Patterico (43b0f3) — 5/22/2007 @ 6:18 pm

In other words, the descriptions I give of Greenwald are quotations from or paraphrases of his descriptions of Allah.

Patterico (43b0f3) — 5/22/2007 @ 6:21 pm

Aaah,

But what if Greenwald is being ironic himself?

Meta-joke time?

alphie (015011) — 5/22/2007 @ 6:33 pm

Only if the irony is intentional. If it isn’t, it’s just sad.

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 5/22/2007 @ 6:38 pm

Glenn who?

Xrlq (0e6733) — 5/22/2007 @ 7:03 pm

Someone drop me a line when Pat or his friends get back to dealing with the issues of the day. No response to this yet, though I mentioned it yesterday and though it was such a big theme here recently. Let’s see what your girl Monica has to say tomorrow. I really hope she doesn’t start crying again

AF (683024) — 5/22/2007 @ 7:16 pm

Whenever I see a column like Greenwald’s where he wants to point out the percentage of people who think of themselves as Christians first or who could see a circumstance where a suicide bombing would be an acceptable defense of Christianity, I always think back to 9/11 & ask “What religion did that?” Maybe that’s why we are more concerned that so many Muslims aren’t assimilating.

sharon (dfeb10) — 5/22/2007 @ 7:21 pm

I refuse to go through the advertising hoops Salon sets. (If you want to get an idea of how many cookies it tries to unload on you, use Firefox and set it to the option that lets you approve or disapprove setting each and any cookie.) But the poll, and Allah’s pretty minimalist comments, didn’t seem to call for any reaction at all. Hard to imagine why Greenwald would get upset about it. The only people who might get hysterical would be CAIR or such like…oh, wait, I forgot this is Greenwald we’re talking about.

kishnevi (03a14b) — 5/22/2007 @ 7:23 pm

As soon as I see militant Christianists blowing themselves up in a souk for the Greater Glory of Jeebus, then Ellensburg’s point may (I repeat, may) be congruent to the argument.

But as it stands right now, it’s just his typical attempt at a 1500-word verbal jiu jitsu.

But he has been quoted in the well of the Senate, so I guess that makes him more important than us.

JD (044292) — 5/22/2007 @ 7:26 pm

But Greenwald knows something that none of the rest of us do, that the Christians could snap just like that and start strapping on explosive vests any minute now.

Robin Roberts (6c18fd) — 5/22/2007 @ 7:35 pm

To say nothing of the Holy Hand Grenade.

Dan Collins (1e2e08) — 5/22/2007 @ 7:41 pm

Muslims in the United States are much more assimilated into society than Muslims in Britain and elsewhere in Europe, according to a poll published yesterday.
The detailed survey, conducted by the Washington-based Pew Research Centre, found that American Muslims tended to have a better standard of living than their counterparts in Europe and were more comfortable with a society in which a majority believed in God compared with secular Europe.

Farid Senzai, an adviser on the survey and director of research at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, said: “The news overall is overwhelmingly positive. The Muslim community here is less ghettoised than in Europe.”

Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Centre, told a press conference that the estimated 2.4 million Muslims living in the US were “decidedly American in outlook”, believing that hard work could lead to advancement.

But the survey, called Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream, did disclose pockets within the community who are disaffected and sympathetic to violence and extremism.

Another way of looking at it, with less screeching. And I wonder how many of your readers would support suicide bombing if our country were invaded.

AF (683024) — 5/22/2007 @ 8:03 pm

And again the claims that immigrants aren’t assimilating is bullshit.
But empiricism doesn’t interest any of you much.

AF (683024) — 5/22/2007 @ 8:05 pm

Greenwald is a dishonest ideological hack. I sometimes wonder what that Pew survey methodology would yield asking bloggers such as Greenwald, Aravosis, Mike Rogers, TRex, and Sullivan if they considered themselves angry gay men or Americans first.

An inability to be happy seems to be a common problem with the group. BDS at the drop of a hat seems to alleviate some symptoms.

daleyrocks (906622) — 5/22/2007 @ 8:34 pm

…the claims that immigrants aren’t assimilating is bullshit.

You need to get out of the house. Vaste areas of Southern California are merely extensions of Mexico with better welfare benefits.

Perfect Sense (b6ec8c) — 5/22/2007 @ 8:36 pm

I wonder how many of your readers would support suicide bombing if our country were invaded.

Probably a smaller proportion than the number of Kos readers who would support re-education camps for anyone to the right of Dennis Kucinich if their allies ever came into power.

JVW (7660a2) — 5/22/2007 @ 8:40 pm

At least some one is noticing how the neocons are promoting fear to motivate public opinion. Perhaps he is hysterical because he sees the erosion of our constitutional rights as a threat to our democracy.

markwilliams (6f9acc) — 5/22/2007 @ 8:42 pm

Anyone else think that a pollster ringing a Muslim phone with these questions might not get an accurate representation?

Wouldn’t the vast majority of suicide bomber advocates try to moderate their views for some unknown, possibly government official, questioning them in a manner where they could be profiled as pro-terrorist?

J Curtis (ecc9cc) — 5/22/2007 @ 10:38 pm

“Perhaps he is hysterical because he sees the erosion of our constitutional rights as a threat to our democracy.”

Perhaps. It’s difficult to know exactly *why* he behaves like a hysterical, shrieking, screeching woman. All I know is that he does.

Patterico (4e40d1) — 5/22/2007 @ 11:19 pm

Perhaps he is hysterical because he sees the erosion of our constitutional rights as a threat to our democracy.

That would be convincing if we had actually had any of our rights eroded. At least, in the name of fighting terrorism. I’ve seen plenty of them eroded in the name of nanny-state busy-bodies.

Rob Crawford (46b1a4) — 5/23/2007 @ 1:59 am

And I wonder how many of your readers would support suicide bombing if our country were invaded.

I’d only support it if we could find a way to make the invaders the bombers… 🙂

Kill two birds with one HE stone, as it were…

Scott Jacobs (feb2f7) — 5/23/2007 @ 4:23 am

AF, a couple of things.

No one is saying that immigrants don’t assimilate. People who go through the hoops do a great job, I’d wager…

It’s the near 75% of illegal immigrants from mexico that are illiterate (many are illiterate in SPANISH for god’s sake) that don’t integrate themselves with our society. They make no effort to get a foundation of the lanugaue probably 98% of our business is conducted with, so how COULD they?

When they can’t read their native language, and don’t really bother to figure out how to speak our by-default national language (I say that because, well, probable more than 80% of the population speaks english), they can’t begin to assimilate into society.

And to make the ignorant claim that based on legal muslim immigrats our immigrant population is assimilating just fine (and “better than europe” could just mean they aren’t burning 100’s of cars in major cities across the country) shows a certain level of intellectual dishonesty.

If for no other reason than if you take ALL immigration (legal and illegal), muslims aren’t even close to the majority. Unless Mexico became a predominately muslim country, that is…

Scott Jacobs (feb2f7) — 5/23/2007 @ 4:33 am

“Unless Mexico became a predominately muslim country, that is…”

That is one of the scarier thoughts I’ve heard in a while. There’s a huge underclass of poor, desperate South American people ripe for plucking by Islamic recruiters. And we really don’t offer them anything as an alternative, other than hiding from us in order to work for very low wages their whole lives.

If the muslim extremests wanted to start recruiting in Mexico, and start spreading hate against America, I bet they’d have a total field day. The perfect place to start would be with people who’d just been turned back from the border or deported.

Phil (427875) — 5/23/2007 @ 6:02 am

If the muslim extremests wanted to start recruiting in Mexico, and start spreading hate against America, I bet they’d have a total field day.

They’re starting in Venezuela and Brazil. One thing at a time, one thing at a time…

Darkmage (be2d37) — 5/23/2007 @ 6:17 am

Jealous much? Muslims get to hang sixteen-year old girls for allowing themselves to be raped, stone homosexuals, and are guaranteed 72 virgins in paradise if they blow up a school bus full of children. Good day, sir!

nk (835ea1) — 5/23/2007 @ 6:30 am

“And to make the ignorant claim that based on legal muslim immigrats our immigrant population is assimilating ”

But it is dear. It is. When you show me your references, I’ll show you mine.

AF (435cc9) — 5/23/2007 @ 6:33 am

Anybody else notice this

While nearly 80 percent of U.S. Muslims say suicide bombings of civilians to defend Islam can not be justified, 13 percent say they can be, at least rarely.

That sentiment is strongest among those younger than 30. Two percent of them say it can often be justified, 13 percent say sometimes and 11 percent say rarely.

“It is a hair-raising number,” said Radwan Masmoudi, president of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, which promotes the compatibility of Islam with democracy.

So one of the hysterical right-wingers Greenwald is worried about is a guy called Radwan Masmoudi of the Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy?

Really?

Would somebody please check his credentials. I’ve seen him at none of the vast right wing conspiracy meetings.

Rich Horton (758608) — 5/23/2007 @ 7:10 am

Forgot the link.http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/010044.php

Rich Horton (758608) — 5/23/2007 @ 7:11 am

And I wonder how many of your readers would support suicide bombing if our country were invaded.

Hopefully not many, suicide bombing is a horrible tactic for the simple reason that it takes at least 15 years to make a new one.

Taltos (c99804) — 5/23/2007 @ 8:55 am

#32

Nope. You made the moronic claim and used completely irrelivant numbers to back it up.

Put up, or for the love of fucking god, SHUT UP!

Scott Jacobs (90eabe) — 5/23/2007 @ 9:17 am

Hopefully not many, suicide bombing is a horrible tactic for the simple reason that it takes at least 15 years to make a new one.

Like I said. Get one of the invaders, strap the explosives to him, and use HIM as the suicide bomber…

Would keep prison camps low as we fought back…

Scott Jacobs (90eabe) — 5/23/2007 @ 9:18 am

Wow, Salon still exists.

Gabriel (6d7447) — 5/23/2007 @ 9:28 am

I don’t think we have to worry about American suicide bombers, we could use illegal aliens as our suicide bombers, since they seem to be the only ones able to do the jobs “American’s won’t do”

Gabriel (6d7447) — 5/23/2007 @ 9:31 am

That’s a column Gleen has been dying to write, slamming in all kind of irrelevancies and damning-by-association. The Creator of Worlds just gave him the excuse.

The High Dudgeon he affects is simply a throw-in.

spongeworthy (45b30e) — 5/23/2007 @ 11:02 am

When Gleen’s comments were read in the well of the Senate, did the speaker quote him in full? You know, by mincing around in a snit?

spongeworthy (45b30e) — 5/23/2007 @ 11:04 am

ok scott:

ONE
TWO
THREE

Because of renewed immigration, fears about English no longer being the linguistic “glue” holding America together are common. Some commentators envision speakers of other languages seizing economic and political power in large regions of the United States, creating disadvantages for English-speaking Americans.

In a very different vein, multiculturalists hope new immigrants’ native languages will persist. They believe bilingualism and language pluralism could usher in a new era that breaks the hegemony of Anglo-American culture.

The underlying claim of both viewpoints is that the past pattern – children and grandchildren of immigrants who rapidly accept English – may be breaking down. Although some changes have occurred, testing this claim using Census data reveals that such beliefs are greatly exaggerated.

English is almost universally accepted by the children and grandchildren of the immigrants who have come to the US in great numbers since the 1960s, which means these children have high levels of linguistic assimilation. Moreover, by the third generation (grandchildren of immigrants), only a minority in any group maintains bilingualism.

Among Asian groups, these minorities are so small that the levels of linguistic assimilation are scarcely different from those of the past. Among Spanish-speaking groups, the bilingual minorities are larger than was the case among most European immigrant groups.

Nevertheless, speaking only English is the predominant pattern by the third generation, except for Dominicans, who are known for frequent back-and-forth travel between their homeland and the US.

And here’s your American Christian Anti-Abortion Attempted Suicide Bomber
Maybe someone should google “christian terrorism”.

AF (435cc9) — 5/23/2007 @ 11:06 am

Greenwald is a dishonest ideological hack. I sometimes wonder what that Pew survey methodology would yield asking bloggers such as Greenwald, Aravosis, Mike Rogers, TRex, and Sullivan if they considered themselves angry gay men or Americans first.

An inability to be happy seems to be a common problem with the group. BDS at the drop of a hat seems to alleviate some symptoms.

Comment by daleyrocks

John Aravosis, TRex and Mike Rodgers are gay. Patient Less Than Zero is a practising Roman Catholic. (I gave it up after confirmation as I’d “lost my faith.”) Is Greenwald gay? If so why is he working for Joan Walsh?

The “inability to be happy” and “BDS” memes are hialrious.

David Ehrenstein (eeb6f7) — 5/23/2007 @ 11:17 am

AF,

Are the Saudis at least slipping you a few bucks for all this anti-American propaganda?

nk (835ea1) — 5/23/2007 @ 11:20 am

Finally, something to settle this debtate:

Midwest Lutherans Largely Reject Violence

By an almost two-to-one margin, Midwest Lutherans voiced solid opposition to decapitation, suicide bombing, and chemical warfare in a new comprehensive survey of their social attitudes.

The Pew Research survey, conducted May 13-19, queried nearly 2,500 randomly selected Lutherans at flea markets and convenience stores across the Midwest. Interviews were conducted in High Plains Twang, Great Lakes Nasal and Flat Ohio Valley Bland.

“If there is one headline here, it’s how remarkably moderate the Lutheran community is,” said Pew director Andrew Kohut of the survey, which was co-sponsored by the Council on American-Yooper Relations. “It really paints a picture of a dynamic culture in or somewhere near the American mainstream.”

Kohut pointed to one of the study’s key findings that only 29% of all respondents agreed that “bloody, random violence against infidels” was “always” or “frequently” justified, versus 56% who said such violence was “seldom” or “never” justified. The approval of violence rose slightly among younger Lutherans and when the hypothetical violence was targeted against Presbyterians, but still fell well short of a majority.

“The only demographic cohort we saw where murderous random violence had a majority support was among 18-35 year old male followers of the Wisconsin Synod,” said Kohut. “And that was barely above the margin of error. Even then, fewer than half (41% to 46%) said they would personally volunteer to carry out the violence themselves.”

Further bolstering the findings, Kohut noted that fewer than 6% of respondents physically attacked field interviewers during the survey.

Although a majority 87% of respondents agreed that “The world should be brought to submission under global Lutheran conquest and eternal perfect rule,” there was a great deal of disagreement on the means to accomplish it. More than 95% supported “pancake breakfasts” “popcorn fundraisers,” but support dropped to less than 80% for “cow tipping” and “T-P’ing infidel houses.” Support dropped even more dramatically for more violent means of conquest, such as “suicide bombing” (28%), “decapitation” (24%), and “running over Presbyterians with my Ski-Doo” (23%).

“Taken as a whole, the results show that Midwest Lutherans emphatically support a moderate, mainstream path to world domination,” said Kohut. “These folks are well-assimilated into the broad fabric of American society, and unless you are Presbyterian, there is probably very little here to cause concern.”

Rich Horton (758608) — 5/23/2007 @ 12:03 pm

I don’t understand Greenwald’s point on the torture thing. ‘A majority of Christians support torture!’ Of course, the generic response was still 63% in favor…?

On the other hand, the suicide bombing thing, e.g. ‘only wacky muslims/religious people could evah do that!’ is a bit of a non sequitir. There are secular suicide bombers and there always have been, e.g. the Tamil Tigers.

David N. Scott (71e316) — 5/23/2007 @ 12:20 pm

And I wonder how many of your readers would support suicide bombing if our country were invaded.

You’re joking…

Perhaps you didn’t notice who was being polled in this study. Muslim Americans.

Last I checked, America wasn’t being invaded.

Lehosh (2fc6bc) — 5/23/2007 @ 12:30 pm

Nevertheless, speaking only English is the predominant pattern by the third generation, except for Dominicans, who are known for frequent back-and-forth travel between their homeland and the US.

You’re proving my point for me, and you don’t even know it. These studies check only LEGAL immigrants (since the illegal ones cleverly don’t fill out the forms). Ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of 3rd generation illegals are either very young, or are fairly young, it’s a moot point. Add to that the fact that illegals tend to “band together” into VERY insular communities, you have a group that has no need to speak english.

If “having no command of the English language” weren;t so damned wide spread, we wouldn’t have Spanish-versions of fairly important forms. Like the writen portion of drivers tests.

They don’t learn the language, and so the are unable to assimilate. Period.

You fucking moron.

Oh, and as for your supposed vast army of christian suicide bombers…

First of, they don’t suicide bomb. At least not on purpose. They PLANT bombs, they don’t wear them. So that’s the first major flaw in your assertation. Second is the fact that there have been less than what, three dozen of these guys? seriously, is that an epidemic?

Seriously, I would like to hear you answer nk’s question… how much ARE you getting paid?

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 5/23/2007 @ 3:56 pm

Ignoring the fact that the VAST majority of 3rd generation illegals are either very young, or are fairly young, it’s a moot point. Add to that the fact that illegals tend to “band together” into VERY insular communities, you have a group that has no need to speak english.

Well, I don’t think that an order of mendicant friars is liable to visit their home countries all that often, and the life of a mendicant friar hardly leads to the production of insular communities. Perhaps you mistake them for a monastic order? I imagine, though, that when they get together, they tend to be a bit tight-knit.

Dan Collins (1e2e08) — 5/23/2007 @ 4:21 pm

MSN I NIIPET
MSN

Bill (eee9d6) — 5/31/2007 @ 11:33 am

5/22/2007

Ellensburg Shrieks With Alarm Over Mild Post

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