Patterico's Pontifications

I read that article, and walked away from my computer sputtering with anger…

I wish I had a subscription to Time, so I could angrily cancle it…

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/8/2007 @ 9:15 am

Thank you, Badger 6 for informing us in addition to your service.

I long ago stopped our Time subscription. When I would pick it up to look at an article while waiting somewhere in a public setting I usually would also need to control my anger and channel my energy into something more productive, so I try to avoid it altogether.

That said, having looked at the article, in addition to your detailed analysis showing the article’s misleading on a main issue, please let me take a moment to anticipate a few things that might be in your book, sir:
1. The fact that this unfortunate private was paired with a veteran of the war who also was killed was not mentioned, as you have informed us.
2. The writer fails to describe how much training would have been required to survive a blast that broke through a 3 ft thick concrete barrier. (My guess is disrupting the manufacture or transport of that Iranian or Russian made weapon would have been more effective).
3. Gen. Powell is quoted as saying “The Army is broke”. Given the fact that the shrinking of the military and the shrinking of the military budget happened during the “peacetime benefit” of the 1990’s, a time when Gen Powell was in charge of the military for a period of time, what responsibility does he take himself?
4. The Army has needed to “lower its standards”, “it missed the 90% diploma rate (the rest have GED’s)”. Ahem, the “old” standard allowed for enlistment of people with no diploma and NO GED. (In fact, recent Surgeon General Carmona introduced himself as “the first high school drop-out to be Surgeon General”. he was a high school drop out with no GED when he enlisted back during Vietnam, obtained his GED in the Army as he wanted to go into Green Berets, trained as a medic while in the service, went to medical school and became a trauma surgeon as well as getting an MPH. Obviously not every high school drop-out does that good by entering the Army, but not bad for a fellow who couldn’t get in today even with the “lowered standards”).
5. There is less enthusiasm for reenlistment and less encouragement to join the military today??? I would think Congress refusing to authorize funds and pushing to leave Iraq ASAP, losing what we have accomplished, would be demoralizing. Please, don’t treat us as that stupid, Time Magazine.

Rant (almost) Over.

(To think, how much of Time Magazine is written with this level of intellectual honesty? I think it is said that much that is printed for public consumption is written at an 8th grade level. I would believe it, because I learned enough logic/rhetoric in 9th grade Speech class to realize how inadequate this piece was, and I don’t even know military facts!)

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/8/2007 @ 12:59 pm

It must be demoralizing to read articles like this that provided distorted information about your profession. I’m glad you and Mrs. Badger have the fortitude to read and respond to to this article, admitting the truths and challenging the untruths. Good job.

DRJ (50237c) — 4/8/2007 @ 1:07 pm

“The writer fails to describe how much training would have been required to survive a blast that broke through a 3 ft thick concrete barrier. (My guess is disrupting the manufacture or transport of that Iranian or Russian made weapon would have been more effective).” – MD in Philly

In this case, an American-made tank shell. The Army told their families that it suspects Zeimer and McPeek were killed by friendly fire.

http://www.courant.com/hc-friendlyfire0406.artapr06,0,2413297.story

steve (d87056) — 4/8/2007 @ 2:00 pm

Here’s more background on PVT Zeimer’s training.

DRJ (50237c) — 4/8/2007 @ 3:06 pm

Is there a problem?

Seems to me the responsibility of the War President is to be ‘cautious as a serpent, innocent as a dove’. I mean, Bush does subscribe to that credo, doesn’t he? Yet we find ourselves in a Pro-Choice War, launched rashly and, some would say, recklessly. Now we have to send fresh troops so hurriedly, we perpetuate the wrong-headed, and doomed misadventure we call, Iraq.

semanticleo (2f60f4) — 4/8/2007 @ 3:13 pm

Pro-choice war?

Sure, some would say we launched the into the war recklessly… The same some who are dumber tham my morning turd, and who are perpettually unable to grasp the idea that helping to build a stable democracy is a good thing.

Don’t sit there and try and pin your delusions on those of us who aren’t retarded…

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/8/2007 @ 3:23 pm

“helping to build a stable democracy is a good thing.”

Good intention is the cheapest of the virtues

semanticleo (2f60f4) — 4/8/2007 @ 3:28 pm

Ignore semanticleo. We can hear the same nonsense from any duck quacking in the village pond. Pay attention to Badger 6 who is there and knows what he’s talking about.

nk (306f5a) — 4/8/2007 @ 3:37 pm

Oh I do, NK… He’s on my RSS Blog feeder…

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/8/2007 @ 3:45 pm

America’s Broken Down MSM is more accurate. The MSM lacks the skilled personal, the training and the resources to accurately report the news. It is a quagmire!

Perfect Sense (b6ec8c) — 4/8/2007 @ 4:15 pm

The only thing positive one can say about TIME is:
Well, it’s not as bad as NEWSWEEK!

As to the “friendly fire” connection; these men died in combat against enemies of the United States. That covers the situation.

By the way, why do we never hear of our enemies being killed by “friendly fire?” Are U.S. forces the only military in the world that makes mistakes?

As I remember my WW-2 history, in the Soviet Army, conscripts were sent into the line (sometimes with only a minimum of training and equipment) knowing that if they failed to advance against the enemy, the NKVD units to their rear would kill them.

Of course, that wouldn’t be “friendly fire”, but a disciplinary action!

Another Drew (8018ee) — 4/8/2007 @ 5:09 pm

Mark Graber at Balkinization. Posting it here is as good a place as any.

I am posting the below with the permission of Professor Walter F. Murphy, emeritus of Princeton University. For those who do not know, Professor Murphy is easily the most distinguished scholar of public law in political science. His works on both constitutional theory and judicial behavior are classics in the field. Bluntly, legal scholarship that does not engage many themes in his book, briefly noted below, Constitutional Democracy, may be legal, but cannot be said to be scholarship. As interesting, for present purposes, readers of the book will discover that Murphy is hardly a conventional political or legal liberal. While he holds some opinions, most notably on welfare, similar to opinions held on the political left, he is a sharp critic of ROE V. WADE, and supported the Alito nomination. Apparently these credentials and others noted below are no longer sufficient to prevent one from becoming an enemy of the people.

“On 1 March 07, I was scheduled to fly on American Airlines to Newark, NJ, to attend an academic conference at Princeton University, designed to focus on my latest scholarly book, Constitutional Democracy, published by Johns Hopkins University Press this past Thanksgiving.”

“When I tried to use the curb-side check in at the Sunport, I was denied a boarding pass because I was on the Terrorist Watch list. I was instructed to go inside and talk to a clerk. At this point, I should note that I am not only the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence (emeritus) but also a retired Marine colonel. I fought in the Korean War as a young lieutenant, was wounded, and decorated for heroism. I remained a professional soldier for more than five years and then accepted a commission as a reserve office, serving for an additional 19 years.”

“I presented my credentials from the Marine Corps to a very polite clerk for American Airlines. One of the two people to whom I talked asked a question and offered a frightening comment: “Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of people from flying because of that.” I explained that I had not so marched but had, in September, 2006, given a lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the Web, highly critical of George Bush for his many violations of the Constitution. “That’ll do it,” the man said. ”

“After carefully examining my credentials, the clerk asked if he could take them to TSA officials. I agreed. He returned about ten minutes later and said I could have a boarding pass, but added: “I must warn you, they=re going to ransack your luggage.” On my return flight, I had no problem with obtaining a boarding pass, but my luggage was “lost.” Airlines do lose a lot of luggage and this “loss” could have been a mere coincidence. In light of previous events, however, I’m a tad skeptical.”

“I confess to having been furious that any American citizen would be singled out for governmental harassment because he or she criticized any elected official, Democrat or Republican. That harassment is, in and of itself, a flagrant violation not only of the First Amendment but also of our entire scheme of constitutional government. This effort to punish a critic states my lecture’s argument far more eloquently and forcefully than I ever could. Further, that an administration headed by two men who had “had other priorities” than to risk their own lives when their turn to fight for their country came up, should brand as a threat to the United States a person who did not run away but stood up and fought for his country and was wounded in battle, goes beyond the outrageous. Although less lethal, it is of the same evil ilk as punishing Ambassador Joseph Wilson for criticizing Bush’s false claims by “outing” his wife, Valerie Plaime, thereby putting at risk her life as well as the lives of many people with whom she had had contact as an agent of the CIA. …”

“I have a personal stake here, but so do all Americans who take their political system seriously. Thus I hope you and your colleagues will take some positive action to bring the Administration’s conduct to the attention of a far larger, and more influential, audience than I could hope to reach. ”

Posted 11:17 AM by Mark Graber

AF (c319c8) — 4/8/2007 @ 5:21 pm

Coming from someone who still believes Joe Wilson’s grand fairy-tale of persecution and reprisal? I wouldn’t be surprised if he’d just misspelled his name as “Osama bin Laden” when purchasing his tickets.

Good ol’ AF, focused like a FRICKIN’ LASER BEAM on the actual topic of the post.

PCachu (e072b7) — 4/8/2007 @ 5:30 pm

Randomness of that aside, I’m a bit skeptical of anybody that takes grand database compiling decisions as relayed by ticket-takers at your local airport as gospel.

But hey, that’s me…

Army Lawyer (6853dd) — 4/8/2007 @ 5:31 pm

AF,

Our 20-year-old dark-haired muscular son flies frequently and his luggage is ransacked on every flight. He also gets the full pat-down as he goes through security. Face it, times have changed.

DRJ (50237c) — 4/8/2007 @ 5:40 pm

Some Comments:

Re: Post #4- steve, your correction is noted, if indeed that is what happened. But your correction does not contradict my main point there, just my editorial piling on. (Although one could still say that if we had stopped flow of arms from Iran things would be better now.)

Re: Post #5- DRJ, assuming your link is accurate, what more is to be said than a clear case of journalistic malpractice by Time.

Re: Post #6- “cautious as a serpent, innocent as a dove”, unless you have a trnaslation unknown to me, the phrase is usually rendered “wise as a serpent, innocent as a dove” (Matt. 10:16). Other than that, you seem to agree with the Time article that we’re taking apart.

Re #9- agreed, and thanks for the reminder.

Re #13- a. If every vocal critic of the President
was hassled going through airports I guess most MSM types are using Amtrak and Greyhound these days.
b. agree with PCachu about reliability of anyone believing Wilson
c. ““I presented my credentials from the Marine Corps … : “Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of people from flying because of that.” … but added: “I must warn you, they=re going to ransack your luggage.””
i. do people routinely carry military credentials from years past on them? Maybe they do.
ii. When I’ve been stopped and given the royal treatment the guards have refused to say anything about why I was singled out.
iii. Even if the person’s luggage was going to be inspected (as mine has been), why would an airline employee say it would be “ransacked”? Besides, when mine was “ransacked” it was done in my presence before I was allowed to go through the passenger entry myself.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/8/2007 @ 8:04 pm

The same some who are dumber tham my morning turd, and who are perpettually unable to grasp the idea that helping to build a stable democracy is a good thing.

Is trying to help build a stable democracy and failing a good thing? How about failing and creating a civil/religious war? Also good?

The Liberal Avenger (b8c7e2) — 4/8/2007 @ 8:42 pm

The only thing positive one can say about TIME is:
Well, it’s not as bad as NEWSWEEK!

Comment by Another Drew — 4/8/2007 @ 5:09 pm

That’s like saying someone’s not bad, when compared to Hitler. It doesn’t take a hell of a lot to improve from that baseline…

#17 – Regarding your reply to #13…
c. i – I was under the impression that when you are discharged, you have to turn that back in…
ii – I’m a smoker. When I fly, if there’s an hour or two between connections I go have me a smokey-treat. At one point I had two lay overs each way on a round trip. EVERY SINGLE TIME I went through (One place I went through twice because of a delay – my God curse the house of O’Hare) I got “randomly selected”. I’m as white-bread-cracka as they come. Seriously, I’m the living definition of “white boy” with a midwest accent. Hell, the security guard the second time in O’Hare was the SAME ONE who got me the first time. It was more than a little annoying… Seven trips through the ‘special’ line… It’s enough to consider Grey Hound.
iii – I’ve never had my stuff ransacked, except once, and it was on my return trip from a campout, so frankly they might have actually improved it’s packing…

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/8/2007 @ 8:48 pm

Is trying to help build a stable democracy and failing a good thing? How about failing and creating a civil/religious war? Also good?

First, you assume we’re failing, and we’re not. You need to change your news source from those who pray for a loss.

Second – ignoring the fact that it’s based on the flawed premiss from your first sentence – no one that’s actually on the ground (again, who doesn’t hope we lose) is anywhere close to calling it a civil war.

AQ and a couple of tribes acting like animals do not a civil war make.

Sorry disappoint, you feckless, morally turpid jackass…

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/8/2007 @ 8:52 pm

a link for those interested in knowledgable discussion of Iraq and the various factions: shia and sunni.

AF (c319c8) — 4/8/2007 @ 9:01 pm

“First, you assume we’re failing, and we’re not. You need to change your news source from those who pray for a loss.”

If wishes were horses.

AF (c319c8) — 4/8/2007 @ 9:02 pm

If wishes were horses.

You’d still be a horse’s ass…

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/8/2007 @ 9:24 pm

Listen to this Special Ops retiree, Green Beret:

http://www.archive.org/details/FOCCED

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/8/2007 @ 11:16 pm

Anyone who feels we are winning the war, listen to this ex CIA, and also reports on the ground after McCain left:

http://ziemsviews.blogspot.com/2007/04/olbermannlarry-johnson-ex-cia.html

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/8/2007 @ 11:23 pm

That ex-CIA larry johnson is an anti-American activist who undermines liberty and freedom everywhere he goes. Come to think of it, doesn’t he pollute Santa Fe NM with his presence? A bunch of these idiot activists, including joe wilson and his politician wife valerie plame, set up shop in this once unassuming quiet town and are in the process of ruining the once fine state capital. Native New Mexicans are not happy having the smell of putrid hippydom in their neighborhood.

“The CIA has better politicians than spies” (F. Thompson) and larry is Der Leader.

syn (7faf4d) — 4/9/2007 @ 3:19 am

So anyone who disagrees with you is anti-American.

AF (c319c8) — 4/9/2007 @ 5:01 am

No, merely those who seem to have made it their life’s work to denegrate the US, like Plame, Wilson, you…

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/9/2007 @ 5:06 am

Johnson made his life’s work serving this country. The CIA can be very dangerous work. Is that anti-American? Wilson served his country. Plame, who also spent her life serving an an undercover agent in the CIA, another life jeapordizing career. These guys are anti-American? Wilson spent his life an a diplomat. Hmmm, I don’t think these guys are anti-American. They were just interested in making sure that our country is safe.

Also, Wilson, recognizing the grim prospect of our country going to war, when seeing an untruth perpetuated starting the war, he had the guts to speak out. Our soldiers ought not be dying and/ or killing because of phony reasoning.

Then, we have Bush and McCain once again attempting to dupe the American public, putting the lives of scores of military in a precariously, dangerous position, and those within the market by this latest charade. And most know by now that the day after the “little shopping spree” by those two Sinators, resulted in several attacks there 36 hours later, killing 60 some odd people.

But the willingness of Bush to subject them to the hell of war, under false reasoning, already shows how little he cares for our country, in contrast to his wealthy corporate donors that are profitting handsomely off this bloody tragic fiasco.

Tragic beyond words, what this President has done to an innocent country of civillians, which has turned into a breeding ground for terrorists. If they didn’t have reason to hate us before this, they sure as hell do now.

What security is established now though, is the defense industry’s long, ever solid business.

So, Scott, what exactly is it you are so upset by? The telling of truth you’d rather not have to realize, it seems.

Incidentally, it is legally categorized as treason for outing a CIA agent. Even our CIA director, Gates said she was covert. It has been established she was outed by the Whitehouse, in retribution, after Wilson, her husband exposed Bush’s bogus WMD claims. Mafia tactics from the WH. What have we come to in this country?

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 9:34 am

Holy crap, blubonnet, are we new to the blogisphere (and especially the right side of it)?

You don’t think we haven’t read extensively what Larry Johnson, Wilson and Plame have said? Geez, kid, find a stop parroting old talking points and think for yourself for a change.

“The CIA can be very dangerous work.”

Yeah, so can road construction and construction work. MOST CIA people (including NOCs), are in as much danger as an Air Force weatherman.

JFH (a04690) — 4/9/2007 @ 10:01 am

Uh, a section of that last post should have been:

Geez, kid, find a clue, stop parroting old talking points and think for yourself for a change.

JFH (a04690) — 4/9/2007 @ 10:03 am

If anything changes my mind about abortion, eugenics and mandatory sterilization it will be creatures like blubonnet. How many generations of imbeciles can this country stand?

nk (306f5a) — 4/9/2007 @ 10:07 am

Well, then, you don’t mind that our government is operating under mafia tactics???? Somebody’s calling true patriots, making their life’s work, service to their country, anti-American??? Who needs to think with their own rational mind? You guys are almost funny. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. La-la-la. Tragic.

Thanks for your contribution to the Left, by simply exposing your completely delusional “logic”.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 10:16 am

Check out the Bush family’s association with the eugenics crowd by using your search engine. Prescott (George’s) grampa was a key player in Hitler’s business operatives.

I’ve noticed also that the KKK are big supporters of Bush. Out of curiosity, I went to the KKK site, and found a huge amont of pro-Bush material around the time period Katrina hit.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 10:20 am

” wish I had a subscription to Time, so I could angrily cancle it…”

-Scott Jacobs

That sounds about right: when facts are ugly, you ignore them…

“If anything changes my mind about abortion, eugenics and mandatory sterilization it will be creatures like blubonnet. How many generations of imbeciles can this country stand?”

-nk

So you’re advocating the murder of your political opponents? That’s great.

C’mon, nk. We all know you’re better than that.

“Native New Mexicans are not happy having the smell of putrid hippydom in their neighborhood.”

-syn

I’m a native New Mexican, and you’re full of shit.

Leviticus (e87aad) — 4/9/2007 @ 10:55 am

Hey, Levi,

Long time no see. How are things going?

DRJ (50237c) — 4/9/2007 @ 11:00 am

Only Levi would think such a shameless, one sided, error-filled piece of crap like this Times article if “fact”…

And I don’t think nk’s advocating the murder of opponents… Just the blatantly, hopelessly retarded…

Such as yourself.

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/9/2007 @ 11:07 am

A couple of random replied to Blu…

#34 – And terrorists have publicly supported the democrats. You want to trade groups or something? My guess is that you aren’t all that proud that people who want to kill you support your reps. We don’t like the fact that those mouth-breathers (the KKK and their revolting ilk) even try to pretend they are decent americans.

At least, I hope you aren’t proud. I’m really hoping.

#29 – “Incidentally, it is legally categorized as treason for outing a CIA agent.” This has been proven, and admitted to be, aimed at the entirely wrong people. Armitage (a known and admitted raving loon against Bush) is the one who outted Plame, who’s identity was NOT covered by the laws you refference. There are time frames and job catagories that are covered, none of which she matched. So while you might like to think it was mean ol Mr Bush, it wasn’t. And even if it had been (and it wasn’t) t still wouldn’t be a crime. It’s also treason to meat with leader of foreign nations without the Gov’t (Executive Branch) approval. Remind me, whi speaker of the house just flaunted current US policy in Syria? I forget.

Wilson’s “speaking out” was nothing of the sort. It found that indeed Iraq may have attempted to obtain Yellow Cake. That sounds a lot like “attempted to buy” to me, which was but one of MANY reasons congress was given. It wasn’t THE reason, it was A reason. Learn to differentiate, or we’re going to have a long day ahead of us.

“Then, we have Bush and McCain once again attempting to dupe the American public, putting the lives of scores of military in a precariously, dangerous position, and those within the market by this latest charade. And most know by now that the day after the “little shopping spree” by those two Sinators, resulted in several attacks there 36 hours later, killing 60 some odd people.” – What? You’re going to have to re-word that into a cogent/coherent statement. It jumps too much. Try a full stop now and again. It works wonders. I ca tell you have an actual thought, but it’s covered by like five different sentence fragments or something.

“Tragic beyond words, what this President has done to an innocent country of civillians, which has turned into a breeding ground for terrorists. If they didn’t have reason to hate us before this, they sure as hell do now.” – Yeah. We’re such monsters, freeing them from a gencidl dictator who let his sons set up rape rooms, and would use biological/chemical weapons on his own countrymen. God we’re such asshoes… It’s a breeding ground for terorists for a number of reasons, not the least of which is “well hell, we need to shore up here, cause the Amerian’s are kicking our asses.” We can fight the people who want to kill us in one of two places. Here, or not here. I would much prefer “not here”, but you’re free to prefer terrorists be here in America. Perhaps your home town?

What am I bothered by? Well, you’re close. “Truth” is a subjective beast. I prefer “fact” over “truth”. I am, however, more bothered by “Blithering idiots unable to look at multiple sources of data and then reach their own conclusion”. Your talking points are (however ineleglantly presented) nearly word-for-word the same used by the more biased of the left. Yo sound, frankly, like Rosie.

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/9/2007 @ 11:28 am

I see, Scottie, if it makes you upset, it must be “untrue”. Wow.

I’ve heard many a soldier’s mom on the Left wing stations (too few of these networks) call in and say that they in Iraq are insufficiently cared for, in terms of adequate equipment, and the highly paid, and underacheiving Halliburton/KBR failures, undermining the troops well being.

If you are actually wanting to see truth (I’m doubting it) see the documentary online, which you can watch: “Iraq for Sale”. simply by googling it under the video category.

You want to know how the Veterans are being treated? Go to http://www.watchdog.org.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 11:31 am

ooops. Make that: http://www.vawatchdog.org

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 11:32 am

“I’ve heard many a soldier’s mom on the Left wing stations (too few of these networks) call in and say that they in Iraq are insufficiently cared for, in terms of adequate equipment, and the highly paid, and underacheiving Halliburton/KBR failures, undermining the troops well being.”

You are officially a God Damn Moron. H’s “failures” (I’d love to know what you thnk those are) don’t have a single bit of impact on the equipment/success/anything with our soldiers. If you would listen to ANYONE that is IN IRAQ, you would know that there is ample equipment for the soldiers. The report that Dems love to pound on to prove there’s not enough equipment/armor/whatever is YEARS old.

Regardless of these minor details, you ignorant fuck, how the hell is BUSH undermining the troops? The right aren’t the ones crying out that the soldiers are mercenaries, nor are we trying to keep them underfunded – which will require the transfer of funds from things like the VA, training, equipment – that’s all the left.

I’m done here. Your parroting of mind-blowingly WRONG talking points is about to drive me to strange religion. Feel free to continue to spout lies as though they are facts simply because they fit your world-view of Evil Bush.

Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 4/9/2007 @ 11:45 am

I wouldn’t ordinarily point it out, but accusing me of “inelegant presentation” of facts, I must point out your atrocious inability to spell, but that really is besides the point.

I never said Hussein wasn’t a creep. Noone on the Left has. We also recognize that his sons were equally wretched. However, this bombing campaign of this presidents’ has done more harm to the Iraqis than Hussein. Even the Iraqis will tell you that.

Another point, among the stories of Hussein’s evil deeds, the Bush administration has done so much in the way of lying, who knows what is really true? That is what happens when lying is used, thereafter, we don’t know when or if the stories we get from the leader we are supposed to trust are ever true.

As far as a threat, the “terrorists” pose, I’ll leave you with a quotation from the brilliant William Blum, “A terrorist is someone with a bomb and no airforce.”

Also, you need to realize, that although this Iraq bloody fiasco has brought about a huge swell of recruitment for the terrorist organizations, the vast majority of those fighting against us in Iraq are just the countrymen of Iraq fed up with our bombs killing the innocent civillian population there. Every one of them has loved ones, at least one, that have been killed by the war we dishonestly, illegally, and immorally initiated there, violating international law. Some “liberation”.

The reason you are so oblivious, is not your fault. You listen to the networks that are invested into the war machine. GE fro example is one big defense contractor, that owns a half dozen networks or more.

Remember what Eisenhower said: “Beware the influence of the military industrial complex.” Well, do you think that owning the majority of networks might be considered heavy influence?

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 11:52 am

You just stated that there would be a requiring of transfer of funds. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT??? There ought to be enough money if you start a war, that, that wouldn’t be a problem. The documented lies preceding this war of Bush’s makes it all the more egregious.

Regarding the military industrial complex’s ownership of networks, making the confusion you are suffering from so agonizing for you and me can also be found in a letter from Lincoln to a friend.

ABE LINCOLN: ” I see in the near future a crisis approaching. It unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. The money powers preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than an autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the southern army in front of me and the financial institutions oat the rear, the latter is my greatest foe. Corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of the few and Republic is destroyed.”

Another brilliant writer–JIM HIGHTOWER said: “The corporations don’t have to lobby the government anymore, they are the government.” Check out who all is in the huge defense contractor Carlyle Group.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 12:07 pm

Actually, the Lincoln quote you cite above is a complete fraud, did not surface until 20 years after Lincoln’s death, and is rather handily debunked here:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/lincoln.htm

Lincoln’s secretary John Nicolay, upon seeing this alleged quote, called it a “bold, unflushing forgery” – but what would he know? Yeah, continue to rail at corporations – that’s a completely unique concept that I’m sure NO ONE has thought of before.

John Barrett Jr. (0cfc08) — 4/9/2007 @ 12:32 pm

JAMES MADISON: “The fetters imposed on liberty at home have ever been forged out of the WEAPONS PROVIDED FOR DEFENSE against real, pretended or imaginary dangers from abroad.”

JAMES MADISON: “If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foriegn enemy.”

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 12:33 pm

So, Scott Jacobs…

You assert that people like semanticleo, blubonnet, and myself “assume we’re failing, and we’re not”, that “no one that’s actually on the ground (again, who doesn’t hope we lose) is anywhere close to calling it a civil war.”

You are wrong.

As usual.

Or are American soldiers too anti-American to be taken seriously?

Do American soldiers fall under your ever-shifting umbrella of closet traitors who hope the US loses in Iraq?

Leviticus (43095b) — 4/9/2007 @ 12:35 pm

DRJ,

Things are going just fine, though it pained me to hear of your accident. How has your recovery been thus far?

As painless as possible, I hope…

Leviticus (43095b) — 4/9/2007 @ 12:40 pm

Leviticus:

Hey there Tonto, might want to read up a bit on that whole “Appeal for Redress” thing you cite to. It’s less than….authentic.

And by the Absolute Moral Authority(tm) vested in me by virtue of my screenname, I declare you, Leviticus, to be a douchenozzle.

Army Lawyer (0de2e7) — 4/9/2007 @ 1:22 pm

Hey, Scottie, check out these “anti-Americans” as you would call them.
http://www.westpointgradsagainstthewar.org

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 2:15 pm

And, are these folks anti-American?
http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 2:27 pm

I guess those weren’t real soldiers willing to say that the war in Iraq is going badly… they’re just a bunch of leftist puppets. And that makes their statements totally illegitimate, right?

I guess you only support the troops that keep quiet.

Leviticus (3c2c59) — 4/9/2007 @ 2:52 pm

Rather than referring to a few web sites of people anti-Iraq war affiliated with the military, why don’t we stick to the factual content posted by a soldier in the theatre of combat?

“Johnson made his life’s work serving this country. The CIA can be very dangerous work. … Wilson served his country. Plame, who also spent her life serving an an undercover agent…”

Being president has been more dangerous than being a diplomate or a CIA staffer at Langley for the last 40 years. Not to minimize the danger of a soldier, but the risk of being shot over the last 40 yrs has been higher for a president than a soldier in the field of combat. (3/9 target of assassination attempt, 2/9 shot, 1/9 killed).

JAMES MADISON: “If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foriegn enemy.”

I like James Madison. Did he think that the US would forever be too strong to fall to a foreign enemy? Had we not fought Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, but instead of building military hardware did more CCC projects would we enjoy the liberty we do today?
The way the Left fights President Bush and other conservatives it seems they are fighting a foreign enemy. Many argue that President Bush is “the real enemy”. I have no problem discussing real concerns about the invasion of Iraq and the course of the war, but there is no room for discussion when “Bush Lied and People Died” is the lead argument.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/9/2007 @ 3:40 pm

Patty;

You might want to rein in your local trolls like Scott. His language leaves me non-plussed, but some may be put off.

semanticleo (2f60f4) — 4/9/2007 @ 4:08 pm

MD, that is the main argument. Bush lied, thousands and thousands and thousands of people died, innocent people. Thoroughly overshadowing everything else. If the lie didn’t happen, the overextension of all troops would not be occurring. The outrageous power abuse by the executive branch would not be occurring. The needs being unmet of so many Veterans would not be occurring. The national treasury now leaving each American with their own individual debt of over 30,000 each would not be occurring.

Add to that, the violations of international law, that has disgraced this nation and caused unspeakable misery to innumerable innocent human beings. To get a clear picture,of what is going on, go up to #24 and click onto the video clip.

The Bush cabal is nothing short of criminal. Even serial murderers only kill a dozen innocent people on average. Bush and his war profiteers have killed more human beings than anyone can agree on about a figure.

John, the statement made by Lincoln was in a letter. NOT a public address. So, you are right that it wasn’t a quote, but it still was from Lincoln. It was his own thoughts WRITTEN to a friend.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 5:20 pm

Take note of some of the people that now are questioning Bush, the 911 Commission, regarding the multitude of unanswered questions, oddities, not adding up in the realm of physics and common sense regarding the events of 9-11. You will find military intelligence, former CIA, former FBI director (Louis Freeh), Congressmen, both Republican and Democratic, professors in most all fields, physicists, engineers, explosive experts, firefighters, ex-NASA VIP, and many many more, that are getting it, that our president and his neo-con cohorts are the scourge of soul-less-ness that Eisenhower warned of when he spoke of the ominous military industrial complex.

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

The Bush family is invested heavily into defense, as is the majority of networks in this country. The worries that Eisenhower warned us of, as well as Lincoln in the letter #43, as well and Madison, and even Einstein (see below). Well, too late, we are here, they have gained more power than you can even fathom. Another warning of Einstein’s regarding the power abuse of the the huge corporate money in this statement. This is why you really don’t understand what is going on, the ones running the war (this illegal war, are the ones running the networks. Genuine investigative journalism making out to the public is rare, and usually found in more obscure sources.

ALBERT EINSTEIN: “Democracy, taken in its narrower purely political sense suffers from the fact that those in economic and political power possess the means for molding public opinion to serve their own class interests.”

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 5:38 pm

Blubonnet has been taking threadjacking lessons and honing her trolling skills. Ignore her or insult her but, for for goodness sake, DON’T TRY TO ARGUE WITH HER SERIOUSLY.

nk (62fa94) — 4/9/2007 @ 5:47 pm

You won’t will you, nk? You can’t. You’d have to argue with our forefathers, since that is all I’m doing is reminding you all what they intended, and you already know, but are turning your back on, in favor of the illegal, immoral, dishonest war.

Argue with the guys in the link I posted on #49, nk. You’ll never come close to the honor and fortitude of their invincible spirit, and they know what the hell is going on!!! You are just a product of the sculpting done from the majority of mainstream media who are of the biggest among defense industry investers. That is why you are so convoluted. It is why we are having this conversation, this argument, because of the intentional distortions presented in the MSM.

Lincoln, Madison, Eisenhower, and even Albert Einstein warned of it..the dangers of the military industrial complex.

ALBERT EINSTEIN: “Democracy, taken in its narrower purely political sense suffers from the fact that those in economic and political power posess the means for molding public opinion to serve their own class interests.”

Maybe we should call you “Clay”, instead of nk.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 6:17 pm

A terrorist is someone with a bomb and no air force.

That’s worth repeating.

Where’ve you been Blubonnet?

Excuse some of the commenters here who can’t seem to control their barbarian brains and just hurl insults.

Psyberian (de47c4) — 4/9/2007 @ 6:25 pm

Hi Psyberian!!! I’ve missed you. I must say, I seldom have it in me anymore to come face these brain dead blathering fools on the right wing that still support our criminal in chief. Sometimes I do though. However, I often go to Dana’s site, and Liberal Avenger, and Ziem’s Views lately. What about you?

Did you click onto the several links I left a ways up. The video clips, one with the venerable Stan Goff in a short film called FOCCED in comment #24 is phenomenal.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 6:56 pm

I haven’t had much time to put myself through the abuse lately. But I’ve mainly been here. I will say that there are some very intelligent, fair-minded people on this site though – even if I often disagree with them. (Now, everyone together now! “Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya!”)

Also, since the Republicans are in such a sad state of affairs right now, I don’t feel the need to spend my time arguing and explaining nearly as much.

Psyberian (de47c4) — 4/9/2007 @ 7:20 pm

It has been established she was outed by the Whitehouse, in retribution, after Wilson, her husband exposed Bush’s bogus WMD claims.

No, blubonnet, it has been established that her name was “leaked” to Bob Novak by Richard Armitage of the State Department, no friend of the White House.

It has also been established that Joe Wilson exposed that he’s an incompetent liar, and not much else…except that his wife was a CIA agent.

But if you know different, you might want to share your information with Patrick Fitzgerald.

Pablo (08e1e8) — 4/9/2007 @ 7:40 pm

“MD, that is the main argument. Bush lied, thousands and thousands and thousands of people died, innocent people…”

As I said, “there is no room for discussion when “Bush Lied and People Died” is the lead argument.”

I think the evidence supports the the theory that Bush didn’t lie about Iraq, it was after all US policy since 1998 to push for Saddam’s fall from power.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/9/2007 @ 7:56 pm

Bluburka is probably under the impression that the Islamists will kill her last. And, after all, Osama bin Laden is a good-looking man. She will, however, have to face a lot of competition to be one of his 72 virgins. From Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Jack Murtha and Chuck Hagel, to name a few.

nk (306f5a) — 4/9/2007 @ 8:09 pm

MD, The film you really need to see by the former Special OPs, Green Beret is in comment #24. Unless of course though that you’d rather remain unaware, being that protecting your pride may just be more paramount in your argument. It is a powerful presentation, from a man you can respect. There is ample evidence that the lead up to the war was bogus. If you are willing to know it.

Incidentally, you can see writing from Richard Armitage directly interacting with public inquiries in behalf of the Whitehouse at: http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20040702.html

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 9:36 pm

Psyberian, I’m sure there are some fine and intelligent people here. I do get rather infuriated when the facts are out there and the unwillingness to see them is the standard perspective, with the ones I encounter occasionally.

I have read some brilliant commentaries from some here. That Asinistra was quite impressive, although we did disagree on something once. Does she come around here anymore? You also are always worth reading, Psy! I know you thought I was a little out there on the 9-11 thing, but check out who is now on my side of recognizing the irregularites of the government story. You’ll be amazed. There are also some excellent documentary films on the bottom of the screen, to click onto which are very worthwhile. http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 9:46 pm

Psy, I’m sure there are some bright individuals here. I’ve read some amazing minds post here too, you being one.

Do you remember the 911 discussion, when you thought me out there. You’ll be astonished who has now joined in on the pursuit of reopening the 911 inquiry, considering the many irregularities of the government story. There are plenty both left leaning and right leaning, and stunning impressive credibility of these folks listed here: http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 9:53 pm

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/9/2007 @ 9:54 pm

blubonnet-

Yes, I have pride as one of my motivations. It is a common problem, and in the words of CS Lewis in Mere Christianity it is the worst of sins. To deny one is controlled at times by pride is to claim to be perfect, a claim that few can make.
That said, it is also impossible for me to prove to you, or you prove to me, whether our understanding of a specific situation is or is not contaminated by pride to the degree we are twisting facts for our own psychological comfort or protection.

I looked at the link, it is to a video which I don’t have time to take to view. I did look at some of the narrators text material and found these things:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/wtc_media.htm
The most cursory glance at the verifiable facts, before, during, and after September 11th, does not support the official line … of the United States government.
… the official line only works if they can get everyone to accept its underlying premises. I’m not at all surprised about the Republican and Democratic Parties repeating these premises. They are simply two factions within a single dominant political class, and both are financed by the same economic powerhouses. … Those premises are twofold. One, there is the premise that what this de facto administration is doing now is a “response” to September 11th. Two, there is the premise that this attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon was done by people based in Afghanistan. In my opinion, neither of these is sound.
Afghanistan is necessary for two things: as a base of operations to begin …f destabilizing, breaking off, and establishing control over the South Asian Republics … and constructing a pipeline through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan to deliver petroleum to the Asian market….
This is a bullshit story from beginning to end. Presented with the available facts, any 16-year old with a liking for courtroom dramas could tear this story apart like a two-dollar shirt. But our corporate press regurgitates it uncritically. But then, as we should know by now, their role is to legitimize….
So there’s a real question about why there was no warning of this.
And there is a history of this kind of thing being done by national political bosses, including the darling of liberals, Franklin Roosevelt. The evidence is very compelling that the Roosevelt Administration deliberately failed to act to stop Pearl Harbor in order to mobilize enough national anger to enter the World War II….
What they are responding to is not September 11th, but the beginning of a permanent and precipitous decline in worldwide oil production, the beginning of a deep and protracted worldwide recession, and the unraveling of the empire.

He elsewhere describes himself as a socialist who believes that the “Overdeveloped countries” need to go backwards for the good of the earth.

I respect his military service, I respect that he did service instead of lingering in alcohol and drug abuse, and we may even have some mutual acquaintances from Delta and other special ops forces.

But, while I am sure there are things we don’t know, I don’t think a government plot to make 911 happen, or Roosevelt purposefully allowing Pearl harbor to happen are on the list.
I think it is very reasonable to say we experienced terrorist attacks and threatened terrorist attacks for years and there is ample evidence 911 happened essentially “according to the standard story”. I also think we knew Hussein was bad news for years, all of the world thought he had WMD, evidence he was breaking sanctions is abundant, and the given reasons to invade Iraq were largely the reasons why. One can disagree whether it was worth it or should have been done by a risk/benefit or cost/benefit analysis, but no need to invoke conspiracy theory.

If the dems and repubs are just part of the same group, all worried about oil, there are easier ways to get it than invade the middle east.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/10/2007 @ 5:18 am

“Hey there Tonto, might want to read up a bit on that whole “Appeal for Redress” thing you cite to. It’s less than….authentic.”

-Army Lawyer

Whew… great rebuttal. The Mudville Gazette certainly convinced me of the error of my ways.
Keep up the legitimate links , Army Lawyer!

Seriously, though… anyone who wants to argue that approx. 1000 US military personnel are the unwitting puppets of the left-wing traitor-establishment (and that said personnel are accordingly unqualified to denounce their own war) needs to take a deep breath and their Aripiprazole.

Take that, MD in Philly!

Leviticus (43095b) — 4/10/2007 @ 7:38 am

Hi Leviticus,

I’m not exactly sure what I’m “taking it” for, unless you are refering to this:

Rather than referring to a few web sites of people anti-Iraq war affiliated with the military, why don’t we stick to the factual content posted by a soldier in the theatre of combat?

When you said this:

…anyone who wants to argue that approx. 1000 US military personnel are the unwitting puppets …and that said personnel are accordingly unqualified to denounce their own war… needs to take a deep breath and their Aripiprazole

I wasn’t arguing that one could find a list of troops that oppose the war to some degree, I was just trying to encourage engaging Badger 6 while we had him.

I could draw attention to this website:
http://appealforcourage.org/
which has over 2,000 signatures of military opposing the attempts in the Congress and media to undermine the war effort (which in fact I just did), but I didn’t think a “tit for tat” exchange was going to get us anywhere. [I did try, after your post, to check the link that Army Lawyer gave us, and it lead to a page that was less than complete in explaining what he wanted to say. Maybe he could check the reference and see if that is what he wanted.]
[FWIW, Aripiprazole is a nice medication to have in the options of treatment, but it is quite expensive, even as expensive medications go, so others are used more often.]

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/10/2007 @ 11:35 am

MD, I have tried repeatedly here to drop in a link, which further elucidates the multitude of irregularities with the government story of 911. Each time, the post never makes it here. So, I’m going to try something different. I’m going to tell you the link, with out putting the live link in this. You’ll find amongst these many reputable individuals, Republicans, Democrats, military intelligence, former CIA, the former (very Republican) CIA director Louis Freeh, and many more highly reputable individuals, and within this site are a multitude of other links to further understand the whole story. At the very bottom of the screen are among other things various documentaries. Please go to: www dot patriots question 911 dot org. You’ll be amazed if you are willing to be honest with yourself, and acknowledge the evidence.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/10/2007 @ 11:45 am

Well blubonnet, I’ll try to get to it within the next 24 hrs. I don’t have time now to look at it closely, and I’ll have a hard time stopping myself once I read it.
(I did have a few discussions with a fellow about whether steel would melt at temperatures of burning jet fuel, etc., which he claimed a number of professional structural engineers were saying, etc., and I imagine that is the kind of stuff on the site. Later.)

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/10/2007 @ 12:04 pm

Yeah, cause Freeh was overflowing with ability.

Maybe you could read the 16-Star Letter. Or the posts at Badger 6. Or Acute Politics.

I’m sorry, I said I was done with your idiocy… My bad…

Scott Jacobs (90eabe) — 4/10/2007 @ 12:30 pm

Though for all of those who think Iraq’s melting down, and that it’s hopless, I give you the following Interview with the Iraqi PM’s spoke’s person.

It’s not a full interview, it’s one participant’s view of it. Read the whole thing. I’ll ask questions later to those who shout it down so they can prove they did read it…

Scott Jacobs (feb2f7) — 4/10/2007 @ 12:44 pm

MD in Philly,

I only said “Take that!” in re: my citation of Aripiprazole (figuring you’d know what it was). There wasn’t anything else attached to my statement. Simply a jest.

Leviticus (35fbde) — 4/10/2007 @ 2:05 pm

Thank you for the compliment, Leviticus (I’ll take your assumption that I knew my trade as a compliment).
Studying anything particulary interesting this semester? (Not jesting, being collegial).

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/10/2007 @ 5:47 pm

MD, I appreciate your open mind! I’ll be giving you credit ahead of time for being honest with me, and having honest objectivity with yourself also. If it piques your interest, you will find the video documentaries at the bottom, rivetting!

Scott, I wish the statements made from your article, I could believe. Sadly, the theatrics that keep being exposed from all things Bush, all his people, including Iraqi PM, I am afraid I have to question. At the beginning of the article, I truly had hope that maybe it was true, but then, after reading further, I felt it was just more of the propaganda that the administration and their appointees pump. If you have clicked onto and heard the short clip from the link I left on #25, you’ll see the latest attempt at convincing the public of the supposed “greatly improving condition”. I’d love to believe that as much as you would.

Scott, I don’t know if you know this, but journalists had been getting their cameras taken from them that were freelancing there. Now, it is way too dangerous to even be there. The information from Iraq is controlled as much as possible by our government. That often happens in wartime, but this government much more so controlling it, or trying to anyway.

Oh, Scott, you should peruse the site, I’d left with MD, and tell me what you think of these people. These people whose lives were in the intellegence agencies of our government on the Patriots Question 911 site.

Like I said though, everytime I would type in the actual address, as the live link, my post would dissappear into cyberspace. It never would post! I tried it several times double and triple checked the address too, and made sure I did everything right- “Submit Comment”. I don’t know why it happened, or who disallowed it. Try it yourself. I’m curious now. On post #67, the address, I typed, but not clustered together, like live links actually are, I’m sure you know about typing live links. (I, myself am still not particularly adept on the computer)

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/10/2007 @ 11:38 pm

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

Hey it worked this time!!!???

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/11/2007 @ 1:13 am

This post at Badgers Forward is a much better use of our time than bludhimmi’s mental polution.

nk (a3cd81) — 4/11/2007 @ 4:38 am

“Studying anything particulary interesting this semester? (Not jesting, being collegial)”

-MD in Philly

I have a class called Public Opinion and Electoral Thought that’s pretty interesting…

Leviticus (e87aad) — 4/11/2007 @ 6:45 am

Hey, nk, too much credibility in the above mentioned list, on the Patriots Question 911 site,huh? I think it scares you.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/11/2007 @ 6:37 pm

Blubonnet, I can hear that nonsense on Air America all day long if my stomach could stand it. Don’t you have any ideas of your own? And don’t you have any shame putting up this crap on a post by our soldiers who are in the front lines in Iraq?

nk (a3cd81) — 4/11/2007 @ 6:53 pm

Haven’t got to your links yet, blubonnet, as I will need to dedicate a little time.

As much as a human being can be aware of one’s own motives, I do value intellectual honesty, even if painful. In college days I was always “playing devil’s advocate”, figuring if one really wanted to undertsand an issue it was necessary to understand the strongest points of all sides.

Leviticus- A brief note on the subject of bias in selection of texts our educators choose for us. My oldest son recently obtained a copy of the 5th edition of “The Norton Anthology of English Literature”. I believe it is the same text I had for a lit./composition class when in college, mine being an earlier edition (obviously). Although the text is now two volumes, while mine was one, it no longer contains “The Abolition of Man” by C.S. Lewis, which I think is an important work that will never be “out of date”. (Not patronizing, just sharing a recent discovery.)

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/12/2007 @ 8:04 am

Here you go AF… You care so much about what the soldiers think, how about you try and incorperate this into your paradigm…

Actual troops, giving actual opinions…

Scott Jacobs (feb2f7) — 4/12/2007 @ 8:53 am

MD in Philly, I salute you holding objectivity high when taking in information.

Scott Jacobs, yes there are troops that still think the mission is worthwhile, but ususally, they are the ones that haven’t been there very long. They are in the 28%, since 72% over a year ago felt the war was not only lost, (as did the generals on the ground), but also, we need to be out of there, as that 72% have stated. I’m sorry.

Also, in recent months, the rate of soldiers’ deaths per month has doubled.

Add to that, the WMD claim, being empty, and the intent to decieve being clear, by numerous individuals that worked for the Defense Department, like Scott Ritter the inspector in Iraq, Karen Kwiatkowski who worked in the Pentagon, Wilson and his CIA wife tried stating it publicly, the Downing Street Memos, and probably other sources, I can’t think of at the moment, but the fact that it was bogus reasoning, makes the war’s loss, and the tragedy of so many deaths even more tragic. It’s hard to fathom.

I know that you think we on the Left are just full of hate, but when you consider all said in the above paragraph, and add to that, you on the right keep perpetuating this tragedy, supporting the administration that got us into this unnecessary bloodbath, it’s doubly infuriating.

Scott, if you go to the link I left in #78, and scroll down to the testimony of Morgan Reynolds, the Republican that worked for the this administration from 2001-2004, there is a video of him speaking, you’ll get an idea of how dirty this bunch are. It is not about Republicans vs. Dems, it really is about criminality vs honor, as you have to realize that it is not a condemnation of Republicans in general, but the blind support of the agenda of these criminals because they claim to be Republicans, causes real fury and frustration from us on the Left.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/12/2007 @ 9:27 am

MD in Philly, I understand your not wanting to comment on this. Despite the ample evidence, speaking up about it puts one in an awkward position.

blubonnet (8d9f79) — 4/13/2007 @ 5:40 pm

blubonnet,

I plan on commenting after I have looked at it appropriately. Everything I’ve commented on in other threads was “from the hip” not requiring any time “for discovery”.

You have no idea what “awkward positions” I’ve been in. Not an intimidation to me.

MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/13/2007 @ 5:53 pm

I not only read the article I bought a copy and was so furious I couldn’t even sit and write a response although I contacted Newsweek and asked if they would like the truth about Matt’s training and what was done and they refused. After several attempts of trying to write Mr. Thompson a note I had to clean it up a bit but by then real clear politics did it for me finally Matt has his due and someone actually did research

Tom Epperson (Matt's Dad) (6480f3) — 11/30/2007 @ 3:32 pm

4/8/2007

America’s Broken Down Army?

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