Patterico's Pontifications

2/18/2007

Yippee-ki-yay, Mother Figure!

Filed under: 2008 Election,Humor — Patterico @ 1:47 pm



The L.A. Times quotes Hillary supporter Daphna Ziman as saying:

The nation is in deep need for a mother figure who will lead the people out of a violent world and back into caring for the poor and the disabled, mostly caring for our children, our future.

Yeah, that’s just what we need . . . someone who will tell the terrorists: “Just wait ’till your father gets home!”

UPDATE: Laura has non-snarky thoughts about the paper’s coverage of Mother Hillary.

98 Responses to “Yippee-ki-yay, Mother Figure!”

  1. “Just wait ’till your other mother gets home!”

    Fixed that for you…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  2. Isn’t this the kind of mother who, twenty years later, you realize is the reason you’re drinking and can’t hold down a job?

    Cecil Franklin (ce3f78)

  3. Hillary in 2008! She’ll tell al Queda “OK! This calls for a ‘time out’!”

    the friendly grizzly (82ada0)

  4. Am I the only one on this thread who saw “Die Hard”? I’m telling you, Patterico, your humor is too subtle for most of us most of the time.

    nk (4cd0c2)

  5. She could turn out to be like my mother. There was never a wait until Father came home…

    kishnevi (7a9e8b)

  6. Actually NK, I had to read the subject line 3 times… I kept completing the phase like our favorite detective would… This is why I don’t proof read people’s stuff anymore…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  7. NK,

    Do you really think you have a chance against us, Mister Cowboy?

    DRJ (605076)

  8. You know what …? I think you’re a cowboy, too?

    nk (947b03)

  9. I find it hard to see Hillary as a mother figure.

    Trying to imagine going out on a date and having mother Hill tell me I have no business packin’ cigars and prophylactics.

    I could tell her it’s part of a “national health plan”.

    Rovin (7f64b8)

  10. Shorter Patterico: Yeah, them scrawny women can’t run things, can they? Put a real man in there who’ll get us some good ol’ wars started somewhere. Yeah, that’ll fix ‘em!

    Psyberian (de47c4)

  11. I can play that game, Psyberian.

    Even shorter Patterico: We’re adults. We don’t need a mother.

    DRJ (605076)

  12. I’m thinking Psyberian misses why we mock…

    It’s not that we don’t think women could run the country (I’d vote for Rice in a heartbeat), it’s just that we don’t think THAT woman could run this country…

    Not without screwing us all…

    Or do you not enjoy the simple things… Like any sort of say in what you think, say, or do? Or maybe you don’t think you get Taxed enough… is that it? You could always send a little to me if that would make you feel better…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  13. Or a father DRJ?

    Psyberian (de47c4)

  14. damn… beaten by mere seconds by DRJ… Curse you!!! I’ll get you next time Gadget DRJ! NEXT TIME!!!

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  15. Psy… Liberals (the femisists especially) have long, LONG held we don’t need fathers…

    And I don’t recall hearing once thus far that Mitt Romney would be like a much needed father figure to America…

    Though lord knows a good portion of this country needs a sound spanking…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  16. That’s debatable to some extent Scott and beside the point.

    Repubs are more like father figures, democrats like mother figures. So either way, you’re going to get one figure or another. Take your pick.

    Incidentally, you guys have it all wrong anyway. You mistake kindness for weakness. They are often caring, but they don’t have to be nice.

    Psyberian (de47c4)

  17. I don’t know, Psyberian. I was weaned 50 years ago. I have a daughter and I’m doing my best to teach her that she can do anything a boy can do. Although she disagrees with me about the possibility of her becoming Admiral of the Space Fleet. But I would want her to be weaned too, at some point, and not needing a mother figure.

    nk (8214ee)

  18. I don’t mistake a thing… I have no illusions at to Hillary’s capacity for “kindness”…

    I think she’s weak on any of a number of topics, not the least of which are morals, ethics, honesty, defense, immigration, taxes, and government’s role in my life (that is to say, get the hell out of it).

    You’re free dis to disagree, but I’m arfraid you’ll have a rough time convincing me to change my mind. I’m unable to respect anyone with such moral turpitude….

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  19. Although she disagrees with me about the possibility of her becoming Admiral of the Space Fleet.

    Whoever says she can’t better not be so sure.

    Abraxas (db3144)

  20. Psyberian,

    Yep, I don’t need a father and I don’t vote for Republicans because they remind me of my father. I vote for Republicans because they (usually) treat me like an adult who can make decisions for myself. I don’t vote for them when they treat me like a child.

    DRJ (605076)

  21. A Harrington fan, eh?

    nk, get your daughter a cat named Nimitz… Best we start early molding her…

    Of cource, to do it right she’ll have to shoot and kill a worthless member of the political class… I would wager we could generate a list for that… 🙂

    *for the record, I have never, do not now, and never shall endorse the shooting, harming, or killing of any public official… So shush moonbats… If you can say someone boned his sister, I can make offensive jokes too… Suck it up.*

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  22. NK,

    Personally, I would choose Star Trek’s Fleet Admiral but that just proves how old I am.

    DRJ (605076)

  23. My god, it’s glorious… I’m surrounded by bigger geeks than me! Oh this has ended up being a LOVELY day!!

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  24. I’m surrounded by bigger geeks than me!

    … bigger geeks thanI.

    Abraxas (db3144)

  25. Not five yet and she knows we don’t have a space fleet. Latest word, it was firefighter or a “liar” (I hope she misheard “lawyer”) like daddy.

    nk (8214ee)

  26. Abraxas: Oh hush…

    nk:

    Latest word, it was firefighter or a “liar” (I hope she misheard “lawyer”) like daddy.

    There’s a difference? 🙂

    Just playin’… If I ever need a lawyer in CA, I have a list from this blog of good folks to call… I wonder if any of you know a college professor I had who used to work in LA…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  27. Well, I suppose a defense lawyer is kind of like of a firefighter. 😉

    nk (8214ee)

  28. That’s right… Go with the wrong joke…. Ruin my night… *grin*

    Ok, time to finish my Accounting homework, and stop staring at this site…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  29. Many thanks for the link! I appreciated it very much. Enjoyed your post, too.

    Best wishes,
    Laura

    Laura (ee9fe2)

  30. Buried deep in the article we learn the Clinton campaign has employees “monitoring enemy blogs.”

    At least Nixon waited until he was President before compiling his enemies list.

    Perfect Sense (b6ec8c)

  31. DRJ, isn’t your position an insult to a lot of Christians who worship their “Heavenly Father?” The Bible seems to think we always need guidance. Or by your way of thinking, “we’re not adults.”

    Also, both parties have their own rules that they try to impose, do they not? So choosing one over the other really has nothing to do with being treated like an adult.

    Psyberian (de47c4)

  32. Psy…

    No, he doesn’t… Nice try though…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  33. Speaking of paternalism and being treated as an adult, here is a recent paternalistic lie from Republican Don Young:

    During floor debate on the Iraq war yesterday, Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska) quoted Abraham Lincoln as advocating the hanging of lawmakers who undermine military morale during wartime.

    “Congressmen who willfully take action during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs, and should be arrested, exiled or hanged,” Young declared.

    One problem: Lincoln never said such a thing

    Psyberian (de47c4)

  34. Here’s a quote from Hillary Clinton that bears repeating over and over and over.

    “Uh… every nation has to either be with us or against us. Those who harbor terrorists or who finance them, uh, are going to pay a price.”

    It’s funny how the left attributes that one as having originated with President Bush as an example of his Cowboy Diplomacy.

    Yippee-Ki-Yay, indeed.

    w3 (853e72)

  35. Like they said during the 60s: “Up against the wall, mother figure.”

    JR (0064f3)

  36. “Madame President, Hans Gruber on line one. They have seized the BP-Amoco Building.”

    Who cares? We already took all of their profits to for my strategic energy fund.

    It’s for the children. Ugh. Nothing like absolute moral authority on your side.

    carlitos (b38ae1)

  37. W3, my personal favorite quote from Hillary was back in the day of the elections for Bill for PotUS…

    “We loath the millitary”

    That told me everything I’d ever need to know about them…

    Scott Jacobs (8b4109)

  38. I wanntt my Mommeeeeee! Nope. I’m all grown up now and Mom’s gone and I have to do it on my own.

    The original qoute and argument was fatuous. It’s part of the kindergarten-ization of political and cultural debate in this country.
    It goes along the lines of “it takes a village to teach children to share their blankies.”

    We don’t need a “mother figure” at the helm; we just need a straight talking individual (male or female) who can look us in the eye and tell us what the meaning of “is” is. The last President who fully met that definition was Ronald Reagan (and when he did that, he scared the bejabbers out of about half the population of the US who realized that he meant what he said).

    Mike Myers (4d9a65)

  39. Scott,

    Oh is THAT the “we” Bill was referring to in his first inaugural address when he said, “We must provide for our nation the way a family provides for its children.

    w3 (853e72)

  40. Yup… Apparently their idea of “providing” involved sending the uncle no one talks about to scare you into doing as you’re told, and stealing from their kid’s piggy bank…

    I don’t miss the Clinton Years…

    And I long for another Reagan…

    And Mike… Nothing pissed off the liberals more than finally placing his foot down and finally calling the Russians what they were… Evil… I read his speaches now, and cry that we’ll probably never see their like again…

    Scott Jacobs (8b4109)

  41. My sainted mother was elegant, in a Katherine Hepburn sort of way; even looked a bit like her. Bill Clinton’s estranged wife as a mother figure would be an insult to my mother.

    Dana (3e4784)

  42. NK wrote:

    I was weaned 50 years ago.

    The mental image of Mrs Clinton nursing us is more than my formerly lunch-filled stomach could take.

    Dana (3e4784)

  43. Perfect Sense noted:

    Buried deep in the article we learn the Clinton campaign has employees “monitoring enemy blogs.”

    Oh, goody! What do I have to do to become an “enemy blog?”

    Dana (3e4784)

  44. @psyberian:
    check out the “fun facts” in don young’s wiki:
    http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Don_Young

    assistant devil's advocate (36725c)

  45. ” Nothing pissed off the liberals more than finally placing his foot down and finally calling the Russians what they were… Evil”

    -Scott Jacobs

    What an unconscionably stupid remark. Do you honestly believe that the average Russian was doing anything other than subsisting over the course of the Cold War? Do you honestly believe that the average Russian harbored any ill-will toward the average American, or vice-versa? Do you honestly believe that Reagan wrote his own speeches?

    Tell me: Was Communism forced upon the Russians, or did they accept it of their own accord? After you riddle me that, riddle me this: If Communism was forced upon the Russians, were they really evil for enduring it?

    Jeez…

    Leviticus (ed6d31)

  46. Levi,

    I think Scott was referring to the Soviet leaders, don’t you agree?

    DRJ (605076)

  47. Like Gorbachev?

    Leviticus (68eff1)

  48. Blanket-statements are stupid.

    Leviticus (68eff1)

  49. SOooooooooo…

    You disagree with the “Evil Empire” statement from Reagan?

    I rest my case, your honor…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  50. Blanket statements are stupid? So then saying something like “Blanket statements are stupid” must be stupid, too. Levi, I think you are pulling my leg.

    DRJ (605076)

  51. Scott Jacobs,

    You “rest your case”? On what?
    Yes. I disagree with Saint Ronald’s blatant oversimplification, and I take issue with the veracity of your statement.

    DRJ,

    It’s a paradox: defying logic while demonstrating internal truth… in my opinion, at least. There may very well be exceptions to the rule; feel free to show me the error of my ways.

    One way or another, uniformly labeling the Russians “evil” was (and is) a stupid thing to do.

    Leviticus (1daf74)

  52. Man… Every time I go to another blog, I realize how good this one really is. HotAir’s commenters sound like a bunch of kindergartners.

    Seriously, Patterico, you put the competition to shame.

    If blogs were gangs, the crew you have here would whup proverbial ass on all comers.

    Leviticus (1daf74)

  53. Communism was, at that time, the single greatest threat to world peace since Hitler. While Gorby was certainly the best thing to happen to Russian since, well, forever, the countries supported by Russia had proven themselves to be the one of the greatest threats to humanity. Ask the people of Vietnam or Cambodia how things went for them. Ask 1980’s China how they were… Russia was our enemy, one of staggering power and possessed of a seductive “everyone gets equal” that never seemed to work out in practice but certainly looked good on paper. ROnald Reagon called Russia, and communism as a whole, exactly what it was. It was an Evil Empire that had to be defeated.

    And defeated it was.

    As for “rest my case”, I stated that little else drove liberals as crazy as Reagan’s ‘Evil Empire’ statement, and you seem to have show me to be fairly close to the mark.

    Thanks! 🙂

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  54. Levi, regarding post #53

    Isn’t it a shame we create such a sorid environemnt, that we earn the treatment your fellow lefties grace us with?

    And indeed, the level of discource here is by far and away better than what you see anywhere else…

    And as an addition to my last comment: No, not all Russians were evil. I know that, you know that, and Reagan knew that. The country, as a whole and as a political and military entity WAS evil.

    I’m sure Iran bunches of swell guys and gals, But I would never suggest that the country as a whole needs to be stopped, just like North Korea (lets see if THIS time they actually stick to an agreement). You see my point?

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  55. I see that you understand the danger of dealing in absolutes, yes.

    The Russian government did plenty of evil things over the course of the Cold War. So did the US. Reagan’s remarks were disingenuous.

    Leviticus (1daf74)

  56. Levi,
    A bird has winwgs and can fly.
    A bat has wings and can fly.
    Therefore,a bat is a bird.
    To quote Nero Wolfe,”No sir,I was using a common verbal shorthand with an inference that a fairly intelligent audience would understand this.I seem to have erred with one of you.”
    I think all but one of us understood.And your remark about the US and Russia as equivalents (to infer verbal shorthand) inspires me to this;
    Lots of people died as a result of Al CApones actions.Lots of people died s a result of Michael Debakey’s actions (or Denton Cooley,if you prefer).Take it from there.

    corwin (dfaf29)

  57. At the risk of violating Godwin, one wonders whether Leviticus and his cohort would agree that not every German from 1933-1945 was evil, or hated America (of all nations), and therefore that regime should not be characterized as “evil.”

    Or, for those preferring a less Nazi reference, whether the Imperial Japan, since it contained a Yamamoto who had resided in America, and a Japanese or three who didn’t necessarily hate every POW, was therefore somehow no more or no less “evil” than an America that placed Japanese-Americans in internment camps. (Leviticus, before you assent to quickly, you might consider how many Japanese-Americans became “comfort women.”)

    Then, we might consider how many gulags the US kept open, compared with the USSR (by all means, include each and every victim of McCarthy—and compare that enormous number w/ the size of the gulag structure in 1953).

    Somehow, the scale of atrocity leaves one considering the word “evil” as appropriate, but then, YMMV, especially for Leviticus.

    Lurking Observer (5a757b)

  58. I didn’t know that moral relativism was the new fad of the Reagan Republicans.

    I wonder if the Swedes, or the Canadians, or the Jamaicans think of the US as the “Evil Empire”? After all, we’ve been involved in far dirtier business than they…

    “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”

    ..Although most of you think that Reagan walked on water. Damn!

    Leviticus (c38564)

  59. Thanks ada (@ 45) – the guy’s a real card, ain’t he?

    Psyberian (de47c4)

  60. From the DailyKos? What a surprise.

    nk (77d95e)

  61. Yes, Leviticus, I’m sure they think of us as an “evil empire.” Allies like Canada tend to think of those they fought with in the Cold War as being just as evil as those they fought against, be it Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or the USSR.

    You might also look up “Whiskey on the Rocks” for an idea of how the Swedes might have looked at the USSR.

    But, hey, we committed more crimes than Sweden, ergo we must be an evil empire to them.

    Feh.

    Lurking Observer (5a757b)

  62. Well, it’s easy to see how Russia (former Soviet Union) with its rich traditions of democracy and personal, economic and religious freedom, as well as its multi-cultural tolerance, is so much superior to the vicious, oligarchic and xenophobic United States. Who can forget Herbert Hoover’s purges of millions of American who did not adhere to the correct party line? And F.D.R.’s deliberate starvation of millions of small farmers when he collectivized their land?

    nk (8214ee)

  63. Welcome to the Orwellian world of the Left.

    Where not equating the United States with the USSR is considered moral equivalency.

    Lurking Observer (5a757b)

  64. #63

    As I wake up from a LONG nap to make up for not sleeping last night, I drink a cup of coffee, and check my favorite blogs…

    NK, you own me a new laptop… My current one is covered in coffee…

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  65. You guys just don’t get it…

    I’m not saying that the US is evil. I’m saying that “the Russians” aren’t, not in the period that they were labeled thus.

    Nikita Khrushchev came to power by DENOUNCING Stalinist policy. Under Brezhnev, the Soviet Union reached “unprecedented levels… of internal calm”. Holding the USSR of the 1980’s accountable for Stalinist purges is like holding Reagan accountable for slavery. Neither holds water.

    Leviticus (43095b)

  66. Leviticus writes:

    The Russian government did plenty of evil things over the course of the Cold War. So did the US.

    But, he says, “I’m not saying that the US is evil.” Yeah, no moral equivalence here.

    And since Nikita Khrushchev denounced Stalinist policy, ergo the world was different. Of course, Andrei Sakharov was sentenced to internal exile during the period of Stalin, yes? Or perhaps not.

    And the KGB’s job of internal surveillance, suppression of dissidents, etc., all that ended by the time of Brezhnev, yes? Well, perhaps not.

    But collectivization, including the enforced sequestering of much of the population on collective farms, that ended by the time Brezhnev lost power, yes? Ooops, they’re still there.

    But, hey, they had “internal calm.” After all, Wikipedia says so!

    And anyone who still worries about the Germans or the Japanese, they’re just idjits, ain’t they?

    Lurking Observer (ea88e8)

  67. Yes, Wikipedia, which ironically happens to be the source of both of your links…

    Wikipedia happens to be a convenient tool, as you no doubt know. If you want to argue that every comment posted on a BLOG should be based off scholarly sources, lead by example. Start a trend. Otherwise, quit being such an arrogant prick.

    Now… Substance:

    “Leviticus writes:

    The Russian government did plenty of evil things over the course of the Cold War. So did the US.

    But, he says, “I’m not saying that the US is evil.” Yeah, no moral equivalence here.”

    -Lurking Observer

    I’ve done plenty of evil things. You’ve done plenty of evil things. Everyone has done plenty of evil things. That doesn’t make any of us “evil”.

    “Of course, Andrei Sakharov was sentenced to internal exile during the period of Stalin, yes? Or perhaps not.”

    -Lurking Observer

    Read your own links. Sakharov was returned from exile by Mikhail Gorbachev…you know, Reagan’s contemporary?

    “And the KGB’s job of internal surveillance, suppression of dissidents, etc., all that ended by the time of Brezhnev, yes? Well, perhaps not.”

    -Lurking Observer

    Yeah, that never happens here.

    I guess you’re right about collectivization, though. Forcing people to do things against their will is really bad.

    ///

    Socialism has a dark side. Capitalism has a dark side. Reagan was full of shit.

    Leviticus (68eff1)

  68. Leviticus,
    Let me brake it down for you, When people are saying that Russia is evil or ______ is evil. They are usually talking about their government or policies. They aren’t talking about the individuals.

    Look, communism looks perfect on paper. But in practice it does not work. It doomed Russia. It is evil becasue of how it treats people. Communism sucks, its a noble idea that will never work until the days of Star Trek.

    G (722480)

  69. Levi,

    You’re read the Gulag Archipelago, right? You would agree that those days were a little worse than making, oh, $3.05 per hour in a garment factory in Saipan, yes? Your comparisons are specious, no?

    If not evil, what word would you use for the Soviet Union circa 1980?

    Sorry for the unrequested interrogatory.

    carlitos (b38ae1)

  70. Leviticus:

    If you do not recognize irony (as in my use of the same sources to counter yours), that is your problem and not mine.

    As for perpetrating “evil,” I don’t know what you’ve done, but I can say w/ quite a clear conscience that I’ve not done much EVIL. Even of the banal sort.

    As for the evil of the Soviet system, iirc, Sakharov went INTO exile in the time of Brezhnev. You know, the guy YOU claim epitomized “internal calm.” I’d be willing to consider Gorby less evil than the rest of that motley crew of Soviet leaders. Although, even there, it’s useful to remember that Gorby didn’t come into power in order to reform the system, but to sustain it.

    As for the ACLU and forcing people to do things they don’t want, as I said earlier: Welcome to the Orwellian world of the Left.

    Gas lines in America. Food lines in the USSR. Capitalism is as much a failure as Communism.

    Again, at the risk of invoking Godwin:

    FDR imprisoned Japanese-Americans. Hitler imprisoned Jews. Hitler=FDR, and USA=Nazi Germany.

    If the existence of individual injustices and exceptions to the rule is comparable, in your mind, to a vast machinery of state terror, I may be arrogant, but you’ve no perspective.

    But, hey, Leviticus, if you want to think of us as “evil,” or the Soviets as “not evil,” or, shoot, the Imperial Japanese as “not evil,” whatever floats your boat. You might even try selling that line in Warsaw, Praha, and Budapest, and see how well it goes!

    Lurking Observer (ea88e8)

  71. Carlitos:

    Gulag is a long, difficult read. Allow me to suggest Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich instead. Levi can read it in a day.

    If he tackles Gulag Archipelago, we won’t see Levi’s comments for about a month!

    Dana (3e4784)

  72. Dana:

    While I agree that “One Day in the Life” is far more approachable, it can, of course, also be dismissed as fiction. Whereas part of the point of Gulag Archipelago is to detail that this wasn’t a one-off, this wasn’t an individual person who was jailed, but an entire system, an entire process dedicated to grinding a significant portion of Soviet citizenry down into the ooze.

    From the interrogation phase, through the transport phase, including the deliberate use of actual criminals to keep the “pol-its” in line, to the dehumanization efforts within the gulags (that make Abu Ghraib and Gitmo appear like vacation resorts by comparison), to the standard policy of adding additional years simply because they could.

    Of course, there will be those who will read and disbelieve. There will be those who will read and say “Doesn’t seem that different from Joliet or Gitmo.” But if they’ve actually read it, then they say such things out of willful ignorance and deliberate blindness, and can be taken as such.

    Each volume has a place, but I think that, for the “Gulag deniers,” those for whom “socialism is as misguided as capitalism,” I’m not sure there’s a substitution possible.

    FWIW, there’s a decent abridgement now of Gulag Archipelago, which combines the three into a manageable single volume.

    Lurking Observer (ea88e8)

  73. “If he tackles Gulag Archipelago, we won’t see Levi’s comments for about a month!”

    And this is a bad thing how?

    John Barrett Jr. (ea8aed)

  74. I’m actually starting to like Leviticus. He puts up the best arguments he knows how to. Each and every day he’s learning more and more about the world.

    G (130827)

  75. I like Levi, too.

    DRJ (605076)

  76. Hey, I got nothing against him either…

    Still I’m failing to see the down side… 🙂

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)

  77. “n’t your position an insult to a lot of Christians who worship their “Heavenly Father?” The Bible seems to think we always need guidance.”

    That would be God. Not the President.

    “Nikita Khrushchev came to power by DENOUNCING Stalinist policy.”

    No. He denounced Stalin only *after* he was firmly in power. Nikita had hands dripping with blood from his stint as Stalin’s chief goon in Ukraine. Denouncing Stalin after the dude was dead: golf clap?

    He came to power by outwitting Beria and Malenkov. Being last man standing of a slimy triumvirate = evil. Or close enough for gov’t work.

    Knemon (bbb1e8)

  78. “Look, communism looks perfect on paper. But in practice it does not work”

    -G

    I couldn’t agree more. Marx didn’t take into account that dictators tend to be reluctant to relinquish their power, regardless of the wishes of the proletariat. Communism doesn’t work. That doesn’t make it “evil”.

    “You would agree that those days were a little worse than making, oh, $3.05 per hour in a garment factory in Saipan, yes?”

    -carlitos

    I haven’t read the Gulag Archipelago, but I do know that its narrative ends in 1956, WAY before Reagan made his… what was the word…specious remarks.

    in re: Saipan vs. Gulags,

    I don’t know. What with the barbed-wire fences and armed guards and the forced abortions (combined, sickly enough, with sex slavery), Saipan doesn’t sound the typical immigrants version of the American Dream.

    “If not evil, what word would you use for the Soviet Union circa 1980?”

    -carlitos

    Misguided/Developing

    “As for perpetrating “evil,” I don’t know what you’ve done, but I can say w/ quite a clear conscience that I’ve not done much EVIL.”

    -Lurking Observer

    “Evil” is defined as “morally wrong or bad; immoral”. Considering the success you’ve had in avoiding such a broad range of actions… well, you are a shining light in a dark world. You should be proud of yourself.

    “I’d be willing to consider Gorby less evil than the rest of that motley crew of Soviet leaders. Although, even there, it’s useful to remember that Gorby didn’t come into power in order to reform the system, but to sustain it.”

    -Lurking Observer

    Ohhhh… so glasnost and perestroika were the policies of Gorbachev’s predecessors? How *evil* of them.

    I MUTUAL thawing of Cold War tensions requires MUTUAL credit be given both parties involved.

    “I’m actually starting to like Leviticus. He puts up the best arguments he knows how to.”

    -G

    While I understand and appreciate your statement (honestly), I must ask you to elaborate on “He puts up the best arguments HE KNOWS HOW TO”. With all due respect, that sounds a little patronizing.

    “He denounced Stalin only *after* he was firmly in power. Nikita had hands dripping with blood from his stint as Stalin’s chief goon in Ukraine.”

    -Knemon

    One way or another, his policies weren’t Stalin’s. A denunciation is a denunciation, and Khrushchev stuck to his guns.

    Phew… The End.

    Leviticus (43095b)

  79. Not in the “this argument is over sense”, but in the “that was a pretty long post” sense.

    Leviticus (43095b)

  80. Leviticus… you’re reading too much into it. I say “he knows how to…” because its clear you’re education is still developing. In some cases you may bring up a topic or debate an issue that in your head and heart you know to be true and valid. Yet in some cases you are just so totally incorrect. When this happens it helps you to better prepare your defenses. (i.e. never debate the same topic the same way,) In my perspective you’ve given an arguement which you think is solid and valid and defend it. When others challenege you and debate you, you learn what not to do/use as evidence to support your position.

    You also can see that what happened on Liberal Avenger was wrong.

    Anyway, when i’m discussing communism as being evil… Allow me to elaborate. Communism is evil because it suppresses the public, it eliminates private ownership, makes the public slaves, and governs your entire life. It increases poverty, decreases standards of living, and takes rights away from people. That is why its evil. Furthermore, in practice, communism creates exactly what it wants to stop… People say communism is evil for those reasons.

    Sherfii (722480)

  81. D’oh, forgot to change my name back from my stupid joke… Sherfii = G

    G (722480)

  82. Well, G, at least now I know who sherfii is.

    Dana (3e4784)

  83. well, wasn’t really going to make a secret of it though…

    G (722480)

  84. So, take away a playmate’s lollipop=evil? Behead Chinese in a competition w/ another officer=evil? Beheading a dozen Chinese=taking away a playmate’s lollipop?

    Perhaps the earlier reference to bats and birds really does apply here.

    As for Gorby, again, it is worth remembering that Gorby did not come into power to reform the system, nor did he undertake perestroika and glasnost as his initial political initiatives. He undertook such changes only as it became clear that the USSR was in dire economic straits—and even then, his reform was always half-hearted (one reason why he never actually effected land reform and ended collectivization).

    Lurking Observer (ea88e8)

  85. Your analogy might stand if the worst thing the US had ever done was take away Canada’s proverbial lollipop… but you and I know that that isn’t the case.

    in re: Gorbachev,

    Let’s stop dancing around the subject: was he “evil”?

    Leviticus (ed6d31)

  86. Fine, let’s stop dancing around the subject:

    So, all immoral things are “evil”?

    And I wasn’t analogizing. Your claim was that “evil”=”immoral acts”. So, I’m putting it to you point-blank:

    Is taking a lollipop (the literal act) evil?

    Is it differentiable from beheading a dozen or two Chinese in Nanjing?

    C’mon, Leviticus, it’s a simple yes-or-no question.

    Lurking Observer (ea88e8)

  87. “Is taking a lollipop (the literal act) evil?”

    Yes.

    “Is it differentiable from beheading a dozen or two Chinese in Nanjing?”

    Yes.

    ………….

    Now, my turn to ask a yes-or-no question: was Mikhail Gorbachev evil?

    Leviticus (ed6d31)

  88. Leviticus:

    Since you recognize that there are different degrees of evil, then you understand my point that Mikhail Gorbachev was differently evil from his predecessors.

    And since you believe that taking a lollipop, the literal act, is “evil,” then it should not be difficult at all for you to agree that Mikhail Gorbachev was evil.

    Lurking Observer (ea88e8)

  89. “If not evil, what word would you use for the Soviet Union circa 1980?”

    Misguided/Developing

    Ah yes, the Misguided/Developing Empire®. That has a ring to it.

    As Reagan also said, communism only works in heaven, where they don’t need it, and hell, where they’ve already got it. It really is evil, no matter what you think of Breznev or Gorby. The empire itself was evil. Not the people, the empire.

    carlitos (b38ae1)

  90. Lurking Observer:

    By the standards you’ve set forth, I have no problem referring to Gorbachev as evil.

    I also have no problem referring to Reagan as evil.

    Leviticus (14eed9)

  91. “Ah yes, the Misguided/Developing Empire®. That has a ring to it.”

    -carlitos

    So you admit that Reagan’s characterization of the USSR was polemical? Otherwise, who cares what kind of ring a phrase has to it?

    Leviticus (14eed9)

  92. Leviticus:

    You’ve had no problem referring to the US as evil throughout this thread. You also made it clear that “Reagan is full of shit.”

    Your declaration that you find Reagan is evil ranks up there w/ the sun rising in the east, in terms of generating surprise.

    Lurking Observer (5246f4)

  93. Without Reagan there wouldn’t be presidents like Clinton. Only difference is Clinton is a great politician whereas Reagan was a great leader. I never knew a president before Reagan, but I have read countless accounts of the direction the U.S. was headed. Reagan has done so much for the world. I’m glad I didn’t live in the cold war era for too long.

    G (130827)

  94. “Your declaration that you find Reagan is evil ranks up there w/ the sun rising in the east, in terms of generating surprise.”

    -Lurking Observer

    Your unconditional acceptance of everything Reagan ever said doesn’t exactly knock me out of my seat, either.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  95. Aw, darn. I saw the title of this post and hoped there was a link to me somewhere in here.

    <pout>

    McGehee (5664e1)

  96. “unconditional acceptance”? I’m sure you can find evidence of that?

    Talk about being an arrogant prick—and a mindreading one at that, too?

    Lurking Observer (ea88e8)

  97. LO… You’re supprised?

    Have you not yet figured out that LIberals are some of the most close-minded, arrogant, self-rightous people on the planet?

    Scott Jacobs (a1de9d)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.0939 secs.