Patterico's Pontifications

11/17/2006

Student Protests Patriot Act

Filed under: Current Events,Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 6:47 am

The following video has been making the rounds, so let’s all watch it, shall we? At the beginning, the tased student is heard shouting: “Here’s your Patriot Act, here’s your f[vowel omitted]cking abuse of power.”

He is referring, of course, to the controversial provision of the Patriot Act which provides for repeated tasing of any students who are slow to leave a university library.

One can thus see a direct line in the chain of command between the UCLA Community Service Officers who tased the student, and the jackbooted thugs in the White House.

Let the war crimes trials begin.

P.S. In case you didn’t know, the chain of command goes through LAPD, of course. Stories like this L.A. Times piece lump this videotape together with two recent videos depicting alleged excessive force by LAPD officers. This allows LAPD to somehow be tarnished by the actions of the officers in the above video, even though LAPD had nothing to do with the incident. Describing the various videos in a single story shows that it’s a “theme,” you see. I think they teach this in journalism school.

UPDATE: Cha-ching! The student is looking to cash in on his tasing:

The UCLA student stunned with a Taser by a campus police officer has hired a high-profile civil rights lawyer who plans to file a brutality lawsuit.

The best part: the “high-profile civil rights lawyer” is Stephen Yagman, currently under indictment for money laundering and tax evasion.

Note the interesting contrast between an earlier L.A. Times story, which depicts the guy as going to the floor only when he is tased:

After repeated requests, the officer left and returned with campus police, who asked Tabatabainejad to leave “multiple times,” according to a statement by the UCLA Police Department.

“He continued to refuse,” the statement said. “As the officers attempted to escort him out, he went limp and continued to refuse to cooperate with officers or leave the building.”

Witnesses disputed that account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling “Get off me” several times.

. . . .

Officers stunned Tabatabainejad, causing him to fall to the floor.

and today’s L.A. Times story, which says that, according to the student’s own version, he was already on the floor, refusing to leave, when he was tased. It’s all about the racial profiling, you see:

[Yagman] said Tabatabainejad eventually decided to leave the library but when an officer refused the student’s request to take his hand off him, the student fell limp to the floor, again to avoid participating in what he considered a case of racial profiling.

I guess Yagman and the student watched the tape and realized that it showed the officer yelling at him to get up before the tasing.

Damn Patriot Act! Now go give this boy (and Stephen Yagman) a few million dollars!

UPDATE x2: Keep your comments on point and civil . . . or I’ll tase you again.

230 Responses to “Student Protests Patriot Act”

  1. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the majority of police brutality/excessive force cases involve a victim who was behaving less than angelically in the first place? Yeah, the kid sounds like something of a dick, but so what? If we tased every early-20’s kid who behaved like a dick . . .

    I can’t believe that department policies and training call for the application of tasers in cases like this.

    Geek, Esq. (5885af)

  2. When did “tase” become a verb? Was that part of the dreaded Patriot Act, as well?

    [I thought that’s what the cop kept saying. I’ll tase you again. Do you want to get tased again? Do you wanna get tased too? That sort of thing. But maybe I’m remembering it wrong. — P]

    Xrlq (9788a9)

  3. When did “tase” become a verb?

    Last Taseday.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  4. Patterico’s website, his dictionary.

    Geek, Esq. (5885af)

  5. Ha. Not only are they destroying our liberties, they’re destroying our precious language.

    Bush probably said it in a speech, so they had to add it to the dictionary (after all, we wouldn’t want people to think that the president made up words).

    Leviticus (35fbde)

  6. SO how much money will Rocky Delgadio and the LA City council give this idiot? 25 million?

    Gabriel (6d7447)

  7. My initial reaction (no sound) is that the tasing, or at least the repeated tasing, was excessive. Big contrast between this and tasing (or a few punches) of a felony suspect at the end of a chase.

    Yes, officer safety is always a concern, but the mere fact that he might have been armed is not enough. By that logic, we all might be armed. We give officers wide discretion, we should expect some level of discretion from them too.

    Needless to say (I hope), denouncing the Patriot Act falls well short of a threat.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  8. My initial reaction (no sound)

    Watch it again with the sound. Keep in mind that it’s in a campus library at 11:30 at night, and the kid by his own admission has thrown himself on the ground because he doesn’t want a cop touching him. And… action!

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  9. the kid by his own admission has thrown himself on the ground because he doesnt want a cop touching him.

    I am definitely reserving judgment until I can hear the audio. But what is threatening about throwing yourself on the ground?

    I think the line that was crossed was that the taser was not applied for officer or public safety, but to force quicker compliance. I’d like to hear if people think that is ever, by itself, an acceptable purpose for tasing. I say absolutely not.

    [I’m not defending it. I’m just noting that the story is not as originally portrayed. My impression, which *could* be wrong, is that the cops were a little taser-happy. You wanna get tased too? — P]

    biwah (2dcf66)

  10. He’s screaming at the top of his lungs before they zap him. I’m not sure he deserved to be tased, but “I was just minding my own business and not doing anything wrong” is right out the window.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  11. Perhaps. But was he doing anything wrong, other than being without his ID?

    Your comment reminds me of this quote from Reservoir Dogs:

    “If she didn’t do what I told her not to do, she’d still be alive.” – Mr. Blonde

    biwah (2dcf66)

  12. “But was he doing anything wrong, other than being without his ID?”

    You mean besides throwing a screaming fit in a crowded library? Not much.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  13. I’m not all that uncomfortable with this episode. Kid was spoiling for a fight. He got one. UCLA will have to pay him, of course.

    In thinking about it, I DO need some extra dough. Perhaps heading over to the UCLA library will pay my house off.

    Matt (2e6b16)

  14. Oh, and disobeying a direct order from a police officer. Just piddly stuff like that.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  15. The criminal code is not a code of etiquette. That doesn;t mean good behavior doesn’t matter – but the distinction is pretty damn important to civil liberties “on the ground”.

    Keep in mind that the police can do anything to a suspect to protect their own safety, as long as it’s proportionate. Replace the “to protect their own safety” with “to ensure full compliance with their orders”, and you’ve just taken a big step.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  16. This is great.

    You see, we live in a rule of law, and one of those laws is that you must obey police officers. They gave that little brat more than enough warning to comply and instead he tried to turn it into some kind of Patriot Act protest. Perhaps there has been violent crimes committed against students in that library after hours, thus the “no ID after 11:00, no stay in the library”. rule.

    The only true disappointment is that they didn’t taser a few more of the protest wannabees. That’s the difference between my upbringing and these little spoiled brats. Police tell you to do something, you do it. No questions asked. You don’t comply, you get cuffed and shipped off to jail. The fact that they tasered him steak of hitting with the nightclub is probably his dumb luck.

    As for CAIR coming to the rescue, could you guys be more piece of garbage terrorism apologist organization than you already are?

    Jack Burton (869544)

  17. Keep in mind that the police can do anything to a suspect to protect their own safety, as long as it’s proportionate. Replace the “to protect their own safety” with “to ensure full compliance with their orders”, and you’ve just taken a big step.

    Are they mutually exclusive? Somebody reacts like that to being asked to leave a library because he doesn’t have ID, I would wonder what else he’s going to do.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  18. Keep in mind that the police can do anything to a suspect to protect their own safety, as long as it’s proportionate. Replace the “to protect their own safety” with “to ensure full compliance with their orders”, and you’ve just taken a big step.

    Are they mutually exclusive? Somebody reacts like that to being asked to leave a library because he doesn’t have ID, I would wonder what else he’s going to do.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  19. I’m indulging in a little sidetracking, but anyway:

    if there had really been violent crime in the library at night, are random ID checks really an effective and sufficient reposne to that? You’d think they would actually require an ID to get in. They do at the public universities I’ve attended, and if you want a guest pass you can apply for one.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  20. Jim,

    With all due respect that’s a ridiculous argument. Why not cut out the middle step and assume that anyone without an ID on them is in the midst of committing a violent felony?

    biwah (2dcf66)

  21. With all due respect that’s a ridiculous argument. Why not cut out the middle step and assume that anyone without an ID on them is in the midst of committing a violent felony?

    You were dismissing the idea that the officers might have been concerned for their own safety. It’s not that the kid didn’t have his ID, it’s that he threw a screaming fit when they asked him to leave.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  22. Fascinating. Really, if we lived in a jack-booted fascist Patriot Act enabled world – then the student would have NEVER behaved this way. If he TRULY believed they could stomp him – even if he felt it was “illegal” – would be act the same? I say no. Talk with people who grew up in , uh, economically disadvantaged neighborhoods, they teach their children how to deal with random contact with the cops. “Keep your hands in plain sight. No sudden moves. Be respectful so you don’t get hit, unnecessarily. This is not the time to smart-off with your mouth.” The student was likely a spoiled Meow. No ID in the library? Tough shit – time to leave. This less about the Patriot Act and more about Universities working to reassure parents that they are doing everything they can to reduce threats to student safety.

    Californio (a94fab)

  23. Tabatabainejad? Is that really his name?
    I support the comment by Californio. Let’s recall that it has happened that a serial killer has entered a college dormitory and raped and killed several young women. Concerns about student safety are not always far-fetched.

    dchamil (bbdc6a)

  24. Are they mutually exclusive? Somebody reacts like that to being asked to leave a library because he doesn’t have ID, I would wonder what else he’s going to do.

    Okay, but I would submit that the “I would wonder” standard is a bit broader than the legal standard, which is as it should be.

    dchamil gives the justification for security measure, but how does that justify tasing an obnoxious but nonthreatening suspect who is mouthing off but otherwise only passively resisting.

    Real resistance is fight or flight. He did neither. If we just call any sign of noncompliance resistance, that’s too broad.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  25. the video was visually incoherent, very poorly shot and of little or no use in determining whether police misconduct occurred.
    lots of backs and butts in this video. next time, hold the damn thing up in the air and point it down at the action! it doesn’t help at all when the walls of the study carrel and the computer monitors on it block the camera angle. college students apparently don’t dress any better than when i went to college, but they’re there for an education and i can think of little more educating than firsthand observation of what happens when a citizen’s relationship with the state goes south.

    assistant devil's advocate (c54f35)

  26. ada,

    the most entertaining part of the video was seeing all those butts and legs standing in shock in a semicricle around the action.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  27. The whole thing was fine with me. What part of “stand up” did he not understand? Just a stubborn brat getting what he deserved.

    Charlie (22cc32)

  28. Maybe its just because I think wrong thoughts, but the video actually made me laugh. It would have been so easy for this guy not to get zapped again . . . and because he is such an ass he can’t help but put himself in a position where he gets it again.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not sure tasing him was an appropriate use of force. Seems to me they could have just hobbled his legs (by cuffing or using flex-cuffs) and got a few cops to just carrying him bodily out of the library and lock him up for tresspassing / resisting.

    But really . . . this guy is his own worst enemy.

    C Student (f5fd3c)

  29. […] Patterico has background. There’s some dispute about whether they tased (tasered?) him because he was inciting other students or because he was lying on the floor and wouldn’t budge. I thought cops were supposed to use tasers to repel physical attacks, though, not to subdue nonviolent (albeit loud and obnoxious) resisters. The campus newspaper says he was hit at least four times, yet there’s not a single account I’ve seen that alleges he made a move on them. […]

    Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: The obligatory UCLA/taser post (d4224a)

  30. If he bent down to fiddle with his backpack, then I can well understand why they would tase him until he stood up. A suicide bomb at UCLA is not all that farfetched.

    cthulhu (ff89d0)

  31. It’s ridiculous to think this punk deserves anything but a severe pounding from his peers for being a jackass. Morons like this need to be taught a lesson, not paid.

    darwin (3c0c68)

  32. Pat,

    How much you wanna bet the officers involved had lawyers long before the kid ever went to one?

    The officers will also have the protection of a criminal investigation geared toward clearing them and smearing the kid.

    Other than going for a cheap smear of the kid, tell me now – why should the kid forgo hiring an attorney to assure his point of view and rights are protected?

    Macswain (76d8da)

  33. Screaming UCLA student tasered…

    Video: The obligatory UCLA/taser postAllahpundit Patterico has background. There’s some dispute about whether they tased (tasered?) him because he was inciting other students or because he was lying on the floor and wouldn’t budge. I thought cops w…

    Bill's Bites (72c8fd)

  34. Hey, I think I saw some “racial profiling incidentees” in training last time I went to the grocery store – yeah, up by the checkout stand, about 9-10 years old (start ’em young!), laying on the ground kicking and screaming at the top of their lungs demanding some candy…probably would have made the training a bit more realistic if everyone in line had a taser to use on the little brats….on the other hand, probably would have gotten used faster and more times than the LAPD did.

    Be nice if folks told their kids “no” – at least once in a while.

    Wind Rider (434abb)

  35. He got what he deserved! Spoiled little kids tend to think that the world owes them something, looks to me like he got paid!!

    Saveall (f7cc89)

  36. P:

    My impression, which *could* be wrong, is that the cops were a little taser-happy.

    My impression too. The guy starts yelling, the officers tase him – agree or not, it seems to be within their discretion, since they have to respond to the situation somehow.

    If it ended there, the civil suit wouldn’t get past summary judgment in my (hypothetical) courtroom. The repeated tasing of a downed and effectively subdued person is where the police are using excessive force, and where their legal exposure really begins.

    The peripheral bad facts are that this is a relatively low-conflict, low-stakes law enforcement situation. I mean, it’s a library, and no one (except the cops) is threatening anyone. Plus, the apparent nonchalance with which the officers repeatedly shock this guy is disturbing. It all has a business-as-usual feel to it.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  37. So this idiot was in the library screaming about the Patriot Act for no apparent reason?

    I’m thinking of that annoying “Head-On” commercial:

    Taser! Apply directly to the nutsack.

    Golden Boy (6412a1)

  38. biwah said, “Real resistance is fight or flight. He did neither. If we just call any sign of noncompliance resistance, that’s too broad.”

    Let’s not be too quick to swallow that hogwash. It was an active and belligerent noncompliance that got the miscreant tased. There was no misinterpretation of some minor “sign of noncompliance.”

    The guy resisted the legitimate commands of campus security personnel, threw a tantrum when he couldn’t have his way, and caused an unnecessary physical confrontation, when all the dumb ass had to do was show his ID card.

    mokus (20bd01)

  39. mokus,

    I didn’t mean to distinguish between noncompliance and “signs of noncompliance”, but rather between a threat to saftey and mere noncompliance (active or otherwise). If you think it was belligerent, just make the case that it constituted a threat. I disagree, but at least you’re alleging something that would actually justify a tasing.

    Basically, I’m just repeating my original question at #9.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  40. I don’t think a taser was what this young man needed when meds and a straightjacket would have been just fine.

    RealitySage (0ec3b8)

  41. Refusal to comply with lawful instructions of legitimate campus authorities is a violation of the terms of use for UCLA’s facilities.

    And, “noncompliance” is a priori “resistance.”

    Nonviolent resistance can’t be construed as a threat to the safety of officers or students. However, in this case the resistance appears to have been active and ongoing. So, it’s not clear if officers overreacted or not, they may have, but clearly the student sure did.

    Now, nothing in the video persuades me that tasers were required, but since I wasn’t there, I’ll forgo jumping to conclusions, or making broad assumptions based on inadequate evidence, and wait for more information to be released.

    mokus (20bd01)

  42. I’m indulging in a little sidetracking, but anyway: if there had really been violent crime in the library at night, are random ID checks really an effective and sufficient reposne to that?

    Yes. At ucla, as all universities, you have outsiders coming on campus and committing violent crimes — rape, sexual molestion, thefts, etc. There is also a big problem with people living in classrooms.

    sam (25cd27)

  43. To me it looks like this guy was already handcuffed when they started tazing him.

    So I don’t think they tazed him because he was a threat. I think they tazed him to get compliance.

    Which seems kind of harsh, but I don’t have any problem with it. Police need compliance, or the whole system can break down.

    What happens if people just start refusing to walk when ever apprehended? Do police have to start carrying every criminal who just decides to go limp? OK, if the guy is just 5 feet away from a patrol car, that is no problem. But what if you have to walk him a hundred yards or two. What if there is only one officer, or two?

    And suppose there are four officers, who can carry him? Doesn’t that limit their ability to respond to other threats other people might make or do while they are occupied with carrying this guy?

    Earlier someone was saying the cops shouldn’t have punched that one guy to handcuff him. They said they should have used a pain compliance method. Well what is the tazer except just one big pain compliance tool? (yeah, I know it can cause you to loose temporary muscle control)

    That is all any of these methods are. Tools to make somebody comply with something they don’t want to do. It is just the nature of the beast that forceing someone to do something can be a ugly thing.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Or you can just say “Now pretty please, with sugar on top. Stand up and walk.” See how far that gets you.

    And yes, even pretty please would still have stimulated the “here’s your f*cking Patriot Act” somehow.

    It just goes without saying that this guy was just looking for a chance to throw that card down.

    EFG (4335e6)

  44. What is up with your numbering system? It went from number seventeen to 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, ….

    EFG (4335e6)

  45. Two thoughts:

    First, as the parent of a college student, I know that some colleges are more aggressive in protecting students while they are on campus than local police might act with citizens. Put another way, most colleges take seriously the notion that they need to look aggressive in protecting students. In a sense, colleges have adopted a quasi in loco parentis attitude because administrators know they will have lots of angry parents if they don’t react with vigor to potentially dangerous situations. They also know that where young people gather, things can escalate quickly. Just watch the after-the-game activities at the Horseshoe after the Ohio State-Michigan game if you want to see escalating behavior, and it won’t matter whether Ohio State wins or loses.

    Second, it’s interesting how we’ve moved as a society from the attitude that civil disobedience is a rare but necessary evil to the belief that protest is a noble calling to be used frequently. Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King were engaged in noble causes but they understood there were consequences to their actions. They did not undertake their protests lightly and their goals were a just societal result. Today it seems most acts of protest are motivated more for fame and fortune than justice. Perhaps this student needs to spend some time re-reading (or reading for the first time) the Greek plays and considering the relevance of concepts like society, justice and hubris.

    DRJ (1be297)

  46. Kid’s a puss. I volunteered to be tased by my fellow soldiers for their amusement. Probably a good five, six times. I certainly didn’t scream like a little poodle that’s just been drop kicked into a propeller like that kid.

    LordDilly (ed0921)

  47. “I’m thinking of that annoying “Head-On” commercial:

    Taser! Apply directly to the nutsack.”

    Funniest thing I’ve read in awhile… Thx Golden boy

    C Student (c949f7)

  48. The taser has two methods of deployment. In the primary method probes, loading into a cartridge charged with nitrogen, are fired into the suspect. The probes need several inches of spread to maximize effectiveness, (The more the better). A lesser known method is to remove the probe cartridge and use ole sparky like the stun guns of old, by direct contact with the arcing terminals. This method is a pain compliance method and depending on the use of force policy can be used on passive resistance, much like pressure points and twist locks.

    I carry a taser every day, have been shot with is once and taken minor shocks several times in the course of training. It is a very effective weapon. If the campus police have the taser in their use of force policy before hands on physical arrest techniques, then the use of the taser (As pain compliance) is justified based on what I’ve seen in the video.

    If they fired it at him, then I would perhaps rethink my position, but I’d have to see more, and the information just isn’t out there yet.

    Patrick (d928f7)

  49. If we tased every early-20’s kid who behaved like a dick . . .

    If we did, the world would probably be a much improved place. :) Hell, when I was that age, I probably could have benefitted from a good tasing.

    BC (2b2318)

  50. In my early 20’s I received a thorough ass-whipping from four cops one inebriated evening. I learned how a run-of-the-mill fun & rowdy situation can change on a dime, and about how certain forms of authority do more than cluck their tongues, slap your wrist, or give you a C for the semester. It was an important experience for me.

    But that doesn’t mean that the cops should have clocked me with a flashlight (lots of stitches) and stood around kicking me in the head after I tried to surrender.

    Was I obnoxious? Yeah. Violent? No. Was it good for me? Yeah. Did the cops act properly? No. The truth is sometimes conflicting like that.

    biwah (2dcf66)

  51. Boy, I watched that video. At that moment, i’d feel safer with that kid in the library and those pigs gone.

    actus (10527e)

  52. Pure theatre. Screaming “Don’t touch me!” performs the carnival barker’s function – gets the crowd looking your way. Invocation of the Patriot Act is an effective hook to use on wide eyed college students. Finally, the overly dramatic expression of pain from tasing sets the hook nice and deep. Listen as helpful audience members demand the badge numbers of the officers.

    Just a truculent child, or something more calculated? Hope someone looks into this “youth’s” background. The term Stalking Horse keeps coming to mind.

    TakeFive (8f1d11)

  53. Invocation of the Patriot Act is an effective hook to use on wide eyed college students

    50 thousand volts gives your head some time to think about effectiveness. Sure.

    One can thus see a direct line in the chain of command between the UCLA Community Service Officers who tased the student, and the jackbooted thugs in the White House.

    50 thousand volts also kind of kind of takes away your ability to make legal arguments.

    Thanks mr prosecutor, for focusing on the real wrong here.

    actus (10527e)

  54. 50 thousand volts also kind of kind of takes away your ability to make legal arguments.

    Not true.

    See I have the “advantage” of actually having been shocked with that kind of voltage (I work around the stuff). It doesn’t cloud your thinking, just jolts your body and allows you to begin cursing the moment it stops.

    And if you’re preprogrammed to spout leftist polemic, there isn’t much thinking involved anyway.

    TakeFive (8f1d11)

  55. […] From Patterico: …At the beginning, the tased student is heard shouting: “Here’s your Patriot Act, here’s your f[vowel omitted]cking abuse of power.” […]

    Update on UCLA Student « Something should go here, maybe later. (52942a)

  56. Great comments. Has anyone thought to ask Patterico why he has adopted LAT’s headline style?

    nk (d7a872)

  57. 50 thousand volts also kind of kind of takes away your ability to make legal arguments.

    I dunno about that. Especially if you have them planned in advance.

    Boy, I watched that video. At that moment, i’d feel safer with that kid in the library and those pigs gone.

    Pigs, the man says!

    Welcome to the 1960s!

    Patterico (de0616)

  58. The kid was out of line. He’s was looking for a fight and he got one.

    Regardless of how the kid was acting, the cops went overboard. I’ve got friends who are police officers and these guys are a disgrace to the professionals. The kid got tasered because these guys weren’t capable of defusing the situation without violence.

    My opinion is that they crossed the line, but a lot of the reason they crossed the line is because they were incapable of doing the job they were hired to do.

    Steve (6ca389)

  59. biwah, I’m not arguing that sonny-boy’s disposition justifies police misconduct, if any indeed occurred. I’m just noting that he’s not really coming before the court of public opinion with clean hands. When you go out of your way to demonstrate that you desperately need a good ass-kicking, it takes some chutzpah to play the victim when someone finally administers one. It’s not quite of a kind with killing your parents and then begging the court for mercy because you’re an orphan, but it’s along similar lines.

    I’m not sold on the idea that these cops acted properly, but I’m not sold on the idea that they were in the wrong, either. Assuming this was an arrest, the officers were entitled to use a reasonable amount of force necessary to effectuate it. I think it falls to the people who are arguing that the cops were in the wrong to explain exactly why the use of stun-guns on a resisting arrestee was not reasonable in these particular circumstances, and what alternatives they should have employed.

    BC (2b2318)

  60. It’s important to understand the difference between campus security personnel (the campus police), and Community Service Officers, or CSO’s who are students on work/study who assist the campus police.

    CSO’s do things like check ID’s or walk students after dark from the library to their cars or dorms. CSO’s help campus police do routine tasks, and stay in radio contact to call campus police if they encounter suspicious individuals or situations.

    At least, that’s the way it was during the mid-70s when I was a UC undergraduate, and shared an apartment with a guy who worked as a CSO.

    mokus (20bd01)

  61. Clearly the kid cosidered the physical pain of being tasered less severe than the emotional pain of complying with the reasonable request of the officers because he deliberately chose the alternative of being tasered four times; three if you assume he didn’t really believe it the first time.

    So wouldn’t any judgment for damages have to take that into account? The kid had a choice about whether to be tasered or not and chose to be tasered, so his damages should be no more than he would get if he had taken the alternative –leaving the library. And the damages for that, of course, would be 0.

    Doc Rampage (4a07eb)

  62. Patterico, why don’t you ban Actus? He never contributes anything but snotty, stupid comments in an attempt to get everyone else off the subject and on to the subject of how stupid he is instead.

    Doc Rampage (4a07eb)

  63. It doesn’t cloud your thinking, just jolts your body and allows you to begin cursing the moment it stops

    My thoughts exactly: you wanna curse things out, not make legal arguments.

    Welcome to the 1960s!

    10 years earlier and rosa parks would get tased all the way back to the bus. And some smartass would say she was out of line and looking for a fight. And, of course, that smartass would be right.

    leaving the library.

    You did notice he was on the way out, right?

    actus (10527e)

  64. He was on the way out when he went limp and refused to move?

    Actus.

    You wanna get tased?

    Patterico (de0616)

  65. This is what happens when you subsidize people’s college education. We are actually paying part of this kid’s tuition — and he doesn’t even have the decency to follow basic rules.

    Lou P. (b4bdca)

  66. He was on the way out when he went limp and refused to move?

    He went limp when they grabbed. Should have just let him leave. But like I said, i’d feel safer with him in, in the pigs gone. But I’ll settle for them all letting everyone just leave. Because some people just gotta be winners.

    You wanna get tased?

    50 thousand volts says it aint the 60’s no more.

    actus (10527e)

  67. Clearly this self indulgent weiner is a result of poor parenting, had he had that kind of discipline at an earlier age he might not have turned into an oxygen waster.

    Met (86714c)

  68. Police in the USA have a very specific role to play, in a societal sense, and are given limited resources in Southern California, based upon historical reality. Unlike, say, England (based upon my personal observations) the police in LA (or as we call it, El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles del Río de Porciúncula) must control every circumstance they find themselves in, for they are usually ALONE or with ONE other cop. In England cops travel in platoons of forty (or at least it seemed that way). We don’t want to pay for that many cops – so when they pull you over or give you directions – well they have a low tolerance for non-compliance. The reason is that you disobeying them on the little stuff (stand here, don’t move, be quiet) leads them to believe you won’t obey them on the “big” stuff – (don’t hit me, don’t try to take my weapon, please don’t kill me). Police would rather get aggressive over the little stuff than risk escalation to the big stuff. Misguided college students who are used to talking shit to mom and dad and STILL having said same parents pay all their bills – well they run the risk of getting tased by the police or having the living shit beat out of them by other males who refuse to take shit from some smart mouthed geek who is looking for trouble and is convinced no one will stand up to him. Ignorant M-F. He might as well have shouted “This is your Magna Carta in action! This is your Articles of Confederation!!”

    Californio (71e993)

  69. “He went limp when they grabbed. Should have just let him leave.”

    He shouldn’t have gone limp.

    “But like I said, i’d feel safer with him in, in the pigs gone.”

    actus supports the emotionally retarded misanthrope and detests the law-enforcement officials? Color us shocked!

    “But I’ll settle for them all letting everyone just leave. Because some people just gotta be winners.”

    And some people can’t get enough of being persecuted. But then, some people are addicts, and some people can’t get enough of enabling them.

    “50 thousand volts says it aint the 60’s no more. ”

    Yeah, if it was the 60s he would have been shot.

    Chris (926a19)

  70. “He never contributes anything but snotty, stupid comments in an attempt to get everyone else off the subject and on to the subject of how stupid he is instead.”

    If that’s the criterion for banning someone, I’d be the first one banned from every blog. 😉

    nk (77d95e)

  71. He shouldn’t have gone limp.

    And he should have had ID, And they shouldn’t have grabbed him, and He should have left, and they shouldn’t have tased him. Lots of “shouldn’t haves” today.

    actus supports the emotionally retarded misanthrope and detests the law-enforcement officials?

    Yeah, if it was the 60s he would have been shot.

    So, Kent state is the model? Silly.

    Are they actually law enforcement or just private police?

    actus (10527e)

  72. “I’m not defending it…”

    Of course you are.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  73. Patterico, why don’t you ban Actus? He never contributes anything but snotty, stupid comments in an attempt to get everyone else off the subject and on to the subject of how stupid he is instead.

    Patterico doesn’t ban him because this isn’t a liberal website.

    sharon (dfeb10)

  74. 30 years years ago he would have gotten a night stick to the head and expelled from school.
    Since we are more civilized now, we applied a taser to him to get his compliance (Talking obviously wasn’t going to be working anytime soon)but I haven’t heard about expelling this spoiled brat. As for paying him? You Kalifornians crack me up. You’ll pay a**holes like this kid for behvavior like that and then wonder why your society is going to s**t.
    I am also amazed by the fact that anyone would apply to be a police officer in your kiss-the-creep culture. Yeeeesh.

    Paul from fl (967602)

  75. 30 years years ago he would have gotten a night stick to the head and expelled from school.

    And cops wouldn’t have felt safe abusing someone all by themselves. They’d need a whole group there to do get their kicks.

    actus (10527e)

  76. Of course you are.

    Of course I’m not. I don’t know the facts. And from what I know, I’m not sure the force was appropriate.

    For example, I say above: “My impression, which *could* be wrong, is that the cops were a little taser-happy.” That’s hardly defending them.

    I also make fun of the cops by repeatedly asking everyone if they want to get tased too. For those who can understand, that’s mocking the cops for saying that to bystanders.

    But I’m not defending the lawsuit-happy drama queen either.

    Patterico (de0616)

  77. So he got “tased” for mockery.

    Guess that’s a crime in your world.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  78. Sorry, but this student bears responsibility for deliberately escalating the situation.

    This kid is also a maroon for failing to grasp basic strategy. He’d do well to go home and digest “The Art of War” before he gets himself seriously hurt; the inevitable consequence if he keeps polishing that attitude and picking overmatched fights against multiple armed opponents.

    You can talk all the smack you want, but the line gets crossed at physically resisting. What kind of idiot attempts to berate, obstruct, and physically resist a cop on the street? You’ll always lose that fight… as I was taught years ago, “you can beat the rap, but you can’t beat the ride.” Who out there doesn’t know this?

    Maybe it’s different in Cali, but you usually have no legal right to resist/obstruct a police officer engaged in the lawful performance of his duties, and the law allows police to use necessary force to gain compliance. This may include officer presence, verbal commands, come-alongs, pain-compliance maneuvers, pepper spray, impact tools, and less-lethal methods like tasers.

    So this student got tasered? The effects are temporary. I suspect the only thing still hurting is his pride.

    TheNewGuy (2e7a0f)

  79. Have you ever been Tasered?

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  80. TheNewGuy:

    Bravo. Our host has half a dozen threads going about citizen/police confrontations and they can be distilled: If you want your trial on the curb, with the police being the prosecutor, judge and executioner, be a jerk. If you want your trial in the courtroom with a lawyer, judge and jury, don’t be a jerk.

    [You might even get $138,000.00 and wouldn’t it be cool if you satisfied your judgment by attaching all the police cars? ;)]

    nk (ca8012)

  81. If you want your trial in the courtroom with a lawyer, judge and jury, don’t be a jerk.

    A good message to all who take advantage of their power.

    actus (10527e)

  82. Nope, you haven’t been tasered (though you probably own one.) Nor are you familiar with the laws of this country.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  83. LAT says today use of tasers for simple compliance is within UCLA policy but not LAPD or LASD policy. Without knowing more I agree with the LAPD/LASD policy. Why not just cuff the guy and drag him off to jail?

    Patterico (de0616)

  84. Where is what I wrote incorrect, David? Or were you not talking to me?

    I wasn’t witness to this incident, and I’m not sure if the repeated tasering was fully justified or not. What I do know, however, that this kid failed to appreciate his situational vulnerability, and gave the officers an excuse to ratchet up their level of force. Was it too far? I don’t know enough about LAPD policies to say… but I can certainly see there from here.

    I do know that this young man did more than just contribute to this situation… he virtually guaranteed some use of force with his behavior, screamed to draw a crowd, and spouted nonsense about the Patriot act all the while.

    This kid may actually get paid as a result of his boorishness and passive-aggressive behavior… Sad.

    TheNewGuy (2e7a0f)

  85. Actus wrote: (Comment numbering on my little browser doesn’t work for some reason.)

    ” ‘If you want your trial in the courtroom with a lawyer, judge and jury, don’t be a jerk.’

    A good message to all who take advantage of their power.”

    A good message to all who do not want to live in a Hobbesian world where life is nasty, brutish and short.

    nk (ca8012)

  86. “Where is what I wrote incorrect, David? ”

    You believe police are supposed to act as judge jury and executioner.

    “Without knowing more I agree with the LAPD/LASD policy. Why not just cuff the guy and drag him off to jail?”

    Precisely. This would appear to be a simple “disorderly conduct” type of infraction. The student attacked no one.

    There is of course a lot more to this story. Why was this student singled out to begin with?

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  87. “Why was this student singled out to begin with?”

    Seems like there are two possibilities:

    1) He didn’t show the ID all students are required to show after 11 p.m., made a scene, refused repeated requests to comply with police officers, and fell to the floor and screamed his damn fool head off.

    2) RACISM!!!

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  88. The thing that burns me the most, is the LA Times doesn’t mension that Yagman is under federal indictment for tax evasion, money laundering, NOT PAYING HIS CLIENTS, etc.

    They should mention things like that for all famous people, not just republicans. Like, Sen Robert Byrd, former KKK Grand Dragon , vs. Trent Lott’s joke about Strom Thurman.

    But I guess that’s why it’s called the Dog Trainer on this blog.

    BTW, I hope Yagman get convicted, disbarred and thrown in the slam.

    Brain Dead Jock (33595c)

  89. Hey Brain Dead (what an apt handle!) you Rethugs constantly bring up Byrd’s KKK membership as if ti were current and he still had a sheet in his closet.

    He is no longer a member, or a racist.

    The same can’t be said of Trent Lot with his White Citizen’s Council connections or Strom maid fucker Thurmond.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  90. […] The 200+ student protest was in response to the student-tasing incident last Tues. evening that is well documented and commented upon over at Patterico and Michelle Malkin’s blog, and can be watched in full at YouTube. […]

    “Okie” on the Lam » It’s the ’60s All Over Again At UCLA (e2cef7)

  91. The fact that Byrd was on television a couple of years ago calling people “white niggers” makes me think he still has his sheet in the closet.

    sam (98adef)

  92. You believe police are supposed to act as judge jury and executioner

    Hardly. I simply pointed out that giving police officers a ration of it in public virtually guarantees that action will be taken against you. If you really are up against a racist/bigot/corrupt/whatever cop, you’re an absolute, unvarnished fool for giving them an excuse to get rough (or you’re deliberately baiting them, hoping for a big legal payout). “Fighting the power” on the street can lead to all sorts of unpleasant consequences; save your ire for the courtroom, where you’ve hopefully lawyered up, and your side of the story can be fairly told.

    I believe you are confusing my comments for NK’s… or were you taking issue with my contention that one generally doesn’t have a right to resist a police officer acting within the lawful scope of his duties?

    I’m not a lawyer (jailhouse or otherwise), but I believe that latter statement to be true. If that’s not correct, I’d appreciate being provided with the proper info. Please show me where one does have the legal right to physically resist a lawfully-acting police officer.

    TheNewGuy (2e7a0f)

  93. But was he resisting? He threw himself on the floor — which is what police generally “request” suspects do prior to cuffing and arrest.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  94. “… one generally doesn’t have a right to resist a police officer acting within the lawful scope of his duties?”

    That’s right and not even if he is acting unlawfully unless he is threatening death or great bodily harm.

    Wherever David got “You believe police are supposed to act as judge jury and executioner” it was not from a fair reading of my comment. The police, generally, are not permitted to retreat from the threat of force and if the suspect escalates the force he is the one subjecting himself to trial by combat. Under Medieval thinking, trial by combat was valid because God would grant victory to the one who was right. Napoleon, however, discovered that “God is on the side with the heaviest artillery”.

    nk (8214ee)

  95. “But was he resisting?”

    Of course not, that’s why he was screaming “DON’T TOUCH ME! DON’T! TOUCH! ME!!!” That was just his way of cooperating.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  96. Before you start reading up on Department policies, you might want to get your Departments right. This wasn’t the LAPD or the LASO, it was UCLA.

    AKA Gadget (5db9f3)

  97. The police, generally, are not permitted to retreat from the threat of force and if the suspect escalates the force he is the one subjecting himself to trial by combat.

    Was there a “threat of force” in this situation? None that I can see. Yes the student was “causing a scene,” but why use a taser when he was screaming “DON’T TOUCH ME! DON’T! TOUCH! ME!!!” ?

    Oh hell, maybe they should have just shot him in the head — right Treacher?

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  98. “Oh hell, maybe they should have just shot him in the head — right Treacher?”

    Don’t forget the witnesses!

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  99. If tasering this guy because he refused to get up is justifiable, does that mean that the police are justified in tasering protestors who use passive resistence–such as pro-life demonstrators in front of an abortion clinic who refuse to get up?

    I’m beginning to believe that tasers are making some police officers believe that they can just dispense with common sense strategies for dealing with the public. Why bother to reason when you can just jolt a person with a taser until he capitulates? In fact, why waste time with explanations from citizens or protestations about having certain rights when you have a non-lethal weapon to use in having your way whether right or wrong?

    Jerri Lynn Ward (611b99)

  100. “Don’t forget the witnesses!”

    Why not shoot them too?

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  101. “Don’t forget the witnesses!”

    Why not shoot them too?

    Did I stutter?

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  102. Thank you sir, may have another?

    biwah (2dcf66)

  103. :::Borat-style phrasing unintentional:::

    biwah (2dcf66)

  104. The hysterical little bitch got tasered – good. He stepped over the line when he fought the cops. Someone please use a taser on Actus, just for the hell of it.

    Mark (206a30)

  105. If tasering this guy because he refused to get up is justifiable…

    All good-natured horseplay aside, I for one am not sure it is justifiable. (It would’ve been preferable for the officers to drag him out by his ear, or perhaps coax him outside with a trail of Marxist pamphlets.) But it’s not like the kid was just minding his own business and the pigs kicked down the door with tasers drawn and zapped him. He had a number of options thoughout the whole course of events, and he kept choosing the wrong one. He may not have deserved 5 taser shots, but he received them in a situation of his own design. Fortunately, now he’s regained enough of his strength to hire a high-priced lawyer, and his fellow students are holding rallies in his support. Just another day in Bu$h’s AmeriKKKa!

    Anybody have any thoughts about all the other students in the library at the time? Did they have a right to study in peace without some overgrown infant throwing a tantrum because he didn’t want the mean policemen telling him what to do?

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  106. Did they have a right to study in peace without some overgrown infant throwing a tantrum because he didn’t want the mean policemen telling him what to do?

    From all reports i’ve seen, the people there didn’t like what the pigs did.

    actus (10527e)

  107. From all reports i’ve seen, the people there didn’t like what the pigs did.

    Imagine that! Ungrateful welps.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  108. From all reports i’ve seen, the people there didn’t like what the pigs did.

    Ah, the Non Sequitur Game.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  109. From all reports i’ve seen, the people there didn’t like what the pigs did.

    Which is why the police had to act assertively, using tasers or dragging him out of the room. The crowd of students were getting involved – the video lets you hear their objections and see how they were moving closer to the police. The situation was getting out of control.

    Some may believe the police caused this meltdown but only one person started this and only one person had the power to end this immediately – the protesting student. In addition, campus security issues are different than general policing. Students are younger, stronger, and often more emotional than the general population. I won’t second-guess the officers’ decision to use force in this situation.

    To me, the real debate is whether it was excessive force and I’m undecided on that. It’s hard to see what happened on that video including things like how/where he was tased, the setting/type of taser, and what the people involved (police and students) say happened.

    It’s your choice but I think it makes you look petty and small to call police “pigs.” It’s the equivalent of using slur words to characterize Hispanics or Jews or blacks, and just as offensive.

    DRJ (1be297)

  110. You can’t win as a cop. It’s best to simply do your job the best way you can and ignore the background chatter. Every cop-critic is immediately a use-of-force and police procedure expert whenever one of these issues comes up.

    the people there didn’t like what the pigs did.

    You betcha, actus… it’s tough being the heavy in the face of a group of offended adolescents: “Dude… that’s just wrong! Why can’t you just leave him alone??”

    Ummm… because anymore, the police don’t really have the option of simply leaving him alone. Justice is supposed to be blind, and laws are supposed to be without prejudice, whether a person is black, white, green, democrat, republican, rich, or poor. Racism, preferential treatment, cronyism, etc have all been arguments advanced against officer discretion. I don’t doubt if the officers did “leave him alone,” these students would be the first to accuse the officers of being fat, lazy donut-eaters who weren’t doing their job.

    As for simply carrying him out, I can’t see well enough on the tape, I can only hear, and this guy is clearly not some pacifist, peace-song-singing hippy passively resisting… he was screaming and belligerent. Did he pull away or resist when they grabbed him? Did he struggle when in cuffs? If it looked like he was going to pull away, wriggle, or struggle when being carried, possibly causing one or more of the officers to fall and/or drop him (resulting in injury to perp or officers), then it might have made sense to take some of the fight out of him prior to carrying.

    TheNewGuy (2e7a0f)

  111. The student felt he was asked for his ID because of his ethnicity. He may well have been right. He refused to show his ID. The cops responded stupidly. Ask a bouncer at a bar what his job is and he’ll give a better response than these idiot cops would seem capable of. Even if the kid’s response was overblown, it’s not the cops’ job to be as stupid as he is. The cops are supposed to be professionals, and these idiots were not. By the time the kid was walking towards the door the cop had no reason to touch him. Following would have been enough. And tasering someone for refusing to get up is absurd, though not as disgusting as using horses.

    And as far as the disposition of cops in general: if you want to have some fun in NY, get into a friendly chat with a police officer and in your most naive tone of voice ask him what he thinks of Frank Serpico; then stand back and watch. It’s kind of funny.
    Law and Order is not Justice; and power corrupts.
    end of story.

    Alois Fahyling (4218e6)

  112. The student felt he was asked for his ID because of his ethnicity.

    …at UCLA.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  113. Pat,

    I’m impressed with your ability to avoid editor comments to about 2/3 of the posts in this thread. Such restraint.

    Fact: UCLA policy says nobody stays in the library after 11PM without proof that they belong there. An early commented asked why they don’t require library ID at all times. A valid question, but current policy is current policy, and the place is open to the public until late at night. Racial profiling had no bearing on that. Race baiting very likely had a major part in him choosing to perform this stunt.

    For everyone who has posted comments including phrases such as “without ID”, you don’t know that he doesn’t have a valid ID to be there, only that he refused to produce one. He’s a current UCLA student, so he most likely did have good ID, but since his M.O. was to make trouble he knew refusing would bring some authorities.

    Fact: He was on the ground before he was threatened in any way. At the beginning of the video, he’s already shouting with all the bluster and authority he can manage, and the campus policemen are telling him to get up and go outside.

    We cannot see the perpetrator through most of the video, so we cannot speak to other actions he might be taking, only the audio. He might have flailed around everytime a cop got near him, and since they aren’t interested in grappling with him they let him lie, but continue to demand that he get up.

    Fact: They weren’t arresting him initially, only trying to get him out of the library.

    Fact: He got much less than the highest setting of the taser. He would not have had the bodily control to continue shouting, screaming, and flailing if he had. If a policeman wants you to walk, he isn’t going to use the 50,000 volt charge, because you won’t be walking anywhere very soon. Since they continue to demand that he get up, and he continued to refuse at the top of his lungs, this is very certain.

    Opinion: Set up. A brat looking to gain a bit of fame and possibly money for getting himself treated like any obnoxious brat should, who refuses to comply with a simple order from proper local authorities. This is analogous to refusing to pull over for lights and sirens. If you escalate the situation long enough, a PIT maneuver is employed to stop you, which does damage to at least two cars.

    This occured on campus, under campus regulations of behavior. The perpetrator is a student, therefore accountable for those regulations of behavior. The application of the taser was clearly not punitive, but intended to provide the student incentive to comply.

    For anyone who thinks it brutality, watch the videos

    Freelancer (f99e36)

  114. David, for whatever it’s worth, “threat of force” includes force that is necessary to be used by the police to enforce the law. Maybe I should have phrased it less “term-of-artly”. They are not permitted to be afraid of being hit and they are not permitted to refuse to hit anyone when necessary. I say, for whatever it’s worth, because I don’t see anyone changing anyone else’s mind here.

    nk (8214ee)

  115. To actus, the 50,000 volts is a “fact.”

    By the way, actus, I’m not banning you or even really thinking about it. But stop calling these officers “pigs.” If you can’t refrain from using that word, I will ask you to take your comments on this topic elsewhere. I’ve had enough of it.

    Patterico (de0616)

  116. Jeez you people never got opver the 60’s did you!

    And all of you were toddlers back then too.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  117. For my part, I apologize for using the term “pigs” in my mockery of stupid hippies.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  118. I know some people who call their brothers who are police officers “pigs”. I have used it myself. It depends on the spirit in which you use it which can be inferred from the context. It’s mainly quaint — a holdover from the hippie days.

    What does a cow say?
    Moo.
    What does a horse say?
    Neigh.
    What does a sheep say?
    Baa.
    What does a pig say?
    Up against the wall, you longhair, hippie !##$$*.

    nk (77d95e)

  119. What term do you prefer for stupid “Conservatives” like yourself?

    “Neo-Fascist Morons” works for me

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  120. David, I was definitely not a toddler in the ’60s.
    An obnoxious know-it-all twerp, possibly.

    nk (77d95e)

  121. “An obnoxious know-it-all twerp,” back then eh? So how about now?

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  122. What term do you prefer for stupid “Conservatives” like yourself?

    To whom is this question addressed?

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  123. “An obnoxious know-it-all twerp,” back then eh? So how about now?”

    Sorry. This is not Atrios. Take my comment only as self-deprecation and leave it lie.

    nk (8214ee)

  124. The situation was getting out of control.

    I know. The pigs should have left. I’ve never been in a police riot, but heard enough about them to fear them.

    only one person had the power to end this immediately – the protesting student.

    Oh I think those cops had plenty of power to end things immediately. All it took was either party leaving on its own. Preferably both. Either party could do that — but for the one that was grabbed and tased.

    It’s your choice but I think it makes you look petty and small to call police “pigs.” It’s the equivalent of using slur words to characterize Hispanics or Jews or blacks, and just as offensive.

    They’re acting like pigs. I’m sure when they go home they’re not pigs to their families. But on that video? at that momement? Pigs. Pigs that should leave and let people be safe.

    To actus, the 50,000 volts is a “fact.”

    Thats what it says at taser.org

    But stop calling these officers “pigs.” If you can’t refrain from using that word, I will ask you to take your comments on this topic elsewhere.

    Sorry. I’ve decided thats what they’re acting like. Just like you’ve decided what this kid was acting like. Acting like he’d pre-planned an anti-patriot act argument.

    actus (10527e)

  125. And all of you were toddlers back then too.

    Actually, I was in jr high in 1967 …

    I talked with youngest daughter a few days ago, making arrangments for her to be home from college for Christmas … she’s a RA this year and she is perpetually exhausted and told me (with not a little awe) that she’s had to call the campus police more times then she expected for stuff in her building … so much she’s lost count.

    And the year is not even half over.

    I want her, and students like her, safe. Maybe this UCLA twerp is learning that street theatre has a price.

    Good on the cops.

    Darleen (03346c)

  126. They’re acting like pigs. I’m sure when they go home they’re not pigs to their families. But on that video? at that momement? Pigs. Pigs that should leave and let people be safe.

    Safe… in a room with a guy who may or may not be a student, screaming his brains out because he was asked for ID. Yep, that’s some safety right there.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  127. Actus

    Come to my courthouse and refuse to go through the metal detector.

    Please? And let me know before hand so I can watch?

    Darleen (03346c)

  128. Safe… in a room with a guy who may or may not be a student, screaming his brains out because he was asked for ID.

    Well yeah, it would have been better for them to just let him leave, without touching him, before the screaming. But once they keep on zapping him? and telling everyone else they’re about to get tased? hells yeah i’d feel safer with the kid free and the cops gone.

    Come to my courthouse and refuse to go through the metal detector.

    What?

    actus (10527e)

  129. Got tired of hanging around Goldstein’s pad, eh actus? I know not contributing, dropping drive-by snark, and being deliberately obtuse are part of your schtick, but seriously, dude… it’s played.

    You’re a law student for God’s sake. Unless you’ve been smoking dope instead of going to class (would explain your aversion to cops), you would know that law enforcement officers don’t have the luxury of walking away from a confrontation. They are duty and oath-bound to enforce the law, or they get fired for derilection of duty. They also don’t get to choose which laws to enforce, and which laws to let slide.

    You say “pigs,” I say “guys who were forced to deal with a bad situation set up by somebody else’s poor attitude.”

    TheNewGuy (2e7a0f)

  130. Well yeah, it would have been better for them to just let him leave, without touching him, before the screaming.

    By that point it wasn’t up to him to decide if they should have touched him or not. If he didn’t want anybody touching him, he could have left the first several times he was asked.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  131. Actus

    You seem to think you can blythly ignore rules and not suffer consequences.

    Just as this student refused to produce his ID and decided to stage a one-male sitdown protest, I’d like to see you do the same for the rules at my place of work

    Try and NOT comply with going through the metal detector. Then go limp and start screaming “police brutality” when they try and remove you.

    You’ll do that, right? Courage of your convictions?

    Darleen (03346c)

  132. I was in college in 1967.

    What you characters refer to as “the 60’s” actually unfolded in the early 70’s. The 60’s I knew were quite different and its political edge (often quite subtle and low key) was far from the caricature you regard as fact.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  133. I’m not particularly fond of cops. I don’t trust people who carry guns.
    Cops I know are not particularly fond of cops.
    My ex girlfriend’s father was a cop and didn’t want his daughters marrying them. One did anyway.
    In the words of a friend with whose three brothers are cops
    “cops are losers” His brothers pretty much agree.
    He was complaining about having to go to a friend’s bachelor party. I asked why. He said the guy’s a narc. So what? It means they’re gonna have every drug on the market at the party; and it’ll go on for days. His wide didn’t want him to go, but he pretty much had to.
    Anyone wanna come back and tell me how a bouncer who knew his job couldn’t have handed the job better than the idiots in uniform?
    And Darleen, this was a library not a kegger. The kid was reading.

    I give the whiney kid the benefit of the doubt and so does Pat. But he seems unwilling to punish men who are paid to be professionals but who behave like amateurs. Like I said, power corrupts.

    Alois Serpico (4218e6)

  134. Cut us some slack, will you please, David? I was in Chicago in 1968. You know, the Democratic National convention riots. My next door neighbor’s son who was a police officer was killed by a rooftop sniper at Cabrini Green in 1969. Sheesh.

    nk (41da82)

  135. “His wide”
    Wife. (and she’s slim)

    Alois Serpico (4218e6)

  136. If he didn’t want anybody touching him, he could have left the first several times he was asked.

    He was on his way out when they touched him.

    You seem to think you can blythly ignore rules and not suffer consequences.

    I seem to think that there are better, less piggish ways to handle someone leaving the library. But yeah, I do think that some people shouldn’t suffer ridiculous consequences of breaking the rules. To wit: rosa parks should not have been tased to the back of the bus.

    You’ll do that, right? Courage of your convictions?

    My convictions? My convictions are that i’d want to leave your place of work without getting tased. Just like this kid.

    But I do think if i got grabbed I might do the pacifist, inactive thing and go limp. Non-violence. I don’t think I’d react to someone hurting a non-violent student by, say, throwing a heavy book at the sadist shocking him.

    you would know that law enforcement officers don’t have the luxury of walking away from a confrontation. They are duty and oath-bound to enforce the law, or they get fired for derilection of dut

    As a law student, I’d say cops have quite a bit of discretion in some cases. Here in DC, though, we have mandatory arrest laws for some violations — like french fries in the subway.

    actus (10527e)

  137. He was on his way out when they touched him.

    So if a cop touches you, you get to fall to the floor and scream, and the cop has to go away. Which law school do you go to?

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  138. Cut us some slack, will you please, David?

    Why? No future in it.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  139. I was in Chicago in 1968. You know, the Democratic National convention riots. My next door neighbor’s son who was a police officer was killed by a rooftop sniper at Cabrini Green in 1969. Sheesh.

    Really? I could have sworn you were a National Gurdsman at Kent State, struck in the head by a rock thrown by some Marxist or other.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  140. “So if a cop touches you, you get to fall to the floor and scream, and the cop has to go away. Which law school do you go to?”

    Well actually since dropping to the floor is a classic example of non-violent civil disobedience and since the cops knew what this was about- and if they didn’t get it they’re more stupid than I thought- the smart thing to do was stay hands off and negotiate a way out: leave one cop there and repeat the procedure, asking questions to other students in the area etc. But the cops acted in a parody of the behavior of thuggish cops.

    And David E. stop being such a queen. If you want to argue do it like an adult. You’re old enough. And there are too many teenage divas here already.

    Alois Serpico (4218e6)

  141. Nice try. No Atriosing in return from me.

    nk (47858f)

  142. Well actually since dropping to the floor is a classic example of non-violent civil disobedience and since the cops knew what this was about- and if they didn’t get it they’re more stupid than I thought- the smart thing to do was stay hands off and negotiate a way out: leave one cop there and repeat the procedure, asking questions to other students in the area etc.

    Why not just stand over him for half an hour until he screams himself to sleep? Then wait for a gentle breeze to waft him out the door.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  143. oh for criminey’s sake, David

    The SDS was formed in the early 60’s..you know… The Filthy Free Speech Movement? Sit-ins? SNCC? “Hey Hey LBJ”? Burning draft cards? Chasing coporate recruiters off campus?

    Good lord, man, I may have only been 13 in 1967 but I could see and I could READ.

    Darleen (03346c)

  144. there are better, less piggish ways to handle someone leaving the library.

    You know, in light of the sprees we’ve seen recently in mundane settings like high school honors class and Amish schoolrooms, there’s no mundane place anymore where benefit of the doubt can replace safety precautions. UCLA is set up with basic security guidelines (as it should be) for the protection of students and their parents, even the community.

    Vermont Neighbor (cd4d85)

  145. So if a cop touches you, you get to fall to the floor and scream, and the cop has to go away. Which law school do you go to?

    Get? has? No, Im not for hard and fast rules. Thats what leads to people getting tased when there are easier solutions. Like how everyone could just leave.

    The SDS was formed in the early 60’s..you know… The Filthy Free Speech Movement? Sit-ins? SNCC? “Hey Hey LBJ”? Burning draft cards? Chasing coporate recruiters off campus?

    What was the problem with the SNCC?

    actus (10527e)

  146. Get? has? No, Im not for hard and fast rules.

    Or, apparently, a coherent train of thought.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  147. I could see and I could READ.

    And for all of history’s events, that’s exactly the point. I think the 60s are well-documented with much archival footage and anyone interested is able to study, learn, analyze and decide. Review that time in history as any other in which we may or may not have been around: WWII. The Civil War, the Revolutionary War. Etc.

    I don’t remember the assassinations of JFK or MLK and barely remember RFK at the end of the decade.

    I have researched the 60s, even did a student film which was well-received, all which seems a lifetime ago. What should we tell students and historians regarding 1776? You don’t know, you weren’t around then?

    Vermont Neighbor (cd4d85)

  148. actus, just out of curiosity, which college did you do your undergraduate work at ?

    Desert Rat (ee9fe2)

  149. actus, just out of curiosity, which college did you do your undergraduate work at ?

    Why does it matter?

    actus (10527e)

  150. […] Turn the facts around. What if a student, angry at being asked to identify himself in the library that he pays for, in part as a student, engages in protest—not by trying to assault the police officer—but by, like the pro-life demonstrator—going limp and supine while he yells about what he believes his rights to be and how they are being violated? What if he is repeatedly tasered while being ordered to get up? What if a bystander asks for the officers’ identities and is threatened with tasering himself? Was that right? Patterico has the whole story. […]

    Sue Bob’s Diary » It Shouldn’t Depend On Whose Ox Is Gored (1b383c)

  151. actus, just out of curiosity, which college did you do your undergraduate work at ?

    Why does it matter?

    It’d prove you could at least Google up a plausible name.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  152. oh for criminey’s sake, David

    The SDS was formed in the early 60’s..you know… The Filthy Free Speech Movement? Sit-ins? SNCC? “Hey Hey LBJ”? Burning draft cards? Chasing coporate recruiters off campus?

    I’m perfectly well-aware of that dear. I went to Communist Martyrs High you know (aka. The High School of Music and Art). The point is those were very small-scale affairs that became famous in etrospect rather than actual action. Opposition to the Vietnam war didn’t jump-start as a widespread movement until the 70’s. There was considerable opposition to the left in the 60’s — some of it taking the form of assholes like you, but the bulk of it constituting the “General public’s” complete indifference to politics.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  153. It’d prove you could at least Google up a plausible name.

    Like UCLA? That doesn’t even need google!

    actus (10527e)

  154. Like UCLA?

    That is indeed the name of a university, yes.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  155. The point is those were very small-scale affairs that became famous in etrospect rather than actual action

    Well, the SNCC was formed in 1960, and reached a bit of a prominence during its freedom summers.Those 3 civil rights workers that “Mississippi Burning” talks about? SNCC.

    actus (10527e)

  156. There was considerable opposition to the left in the 60’s — some of it taking the form of assholes like you,

    Somebody saltpeter your vi*gra, sweetheart?

    Darleen (03346c)

  157. In the course of following the escalation of this encounter, people (particularly the police involved) have lost sight of the simplicity of the event.

    A student-age young man is studying in the middle of the night at a university library. He doesn’t have his ID on hand. I have read elsewhere that nearby students vouched for his identity, however this is certainly just a rumor at this point. The student without the ID was asked then forced to leave the library.

    Even simpler: A student at a public university was forced to leave the library.

    I can imagine few complicating circumstances that legitimately should cause the police in this case to “tase” the individual involved. Depending on what article one reads, it says that the officers “tased” him anywhere from 4 to 7 times.

    The act of removing a non-violent person from a library never need involve tasers. This was the act of a cowardly and unprofessional group of police officers.

    As for whether or not his ethnicity – the fact that he is Iranian – played any role here. Is it so far-fetched that it might have been a factor? Spend just a few minutes poking around some other conservative blogs (Patterico is no bigot) like Malkin or LGF and you get an idea of the hatred and contempt that many, many people in this country have against “young Middle Eastern-looking men.”

    Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that if race played no factor whatsoever in the actions of the police, that an Iranian-American in Los Angeles in 2006 might not honestly believe that he was being profiled?

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  158. The act of removing a non-violent person from a library never need involve tasers.

    A “non-violent” person screaming “DON’T TOUCH ME!” (Sorry to keep repeating that point, but people keep forgetting it.)

    As for whether or not his ethnicity – the fact that he is Iranian – played any role here. Is it so far-fetched that it might have been a factor?

    At UCLA? Seems like the campus police at UCLA may have seen one or two Iranian-American students in their day. Then again, maybe you’re right and they read Malkin and she told them to taser all Persians on sight.

    Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that if race played no factor whatsoever in the actions of the police, that an Iranian-American in Los Angeles in 2006 might not honestly believe that he was being profiled?

    Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that an Iranian-American in Los Angeles in 2006 might act like an idiot, humiliate himself in public, and get a lot of mileage out of crying racism?

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  159. actus, it’s simply not necessary to react so defensively to my question.
    As I politely stated, I’m just curious where you attended college, that’s all.

    You’re completely anonymous here, but if you fear that revealing the secret name of your alma mater will elicit the FBI to track you down and show up at your doorstep as part of a Patriot Act smackdown, I wish to assure you that you won’t be finding a horse’s head in your bed—at least not anytime soon !
    Ha, ha, ha.

    Desert Rat (ee9fe2)

  160. Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that an Iranian-American in Los Angeles in 2006 might act like an idiot, humiliate himself in public, and get a lot of mileage out of crying racism?

    Is it too much of a stretch to imagine that an Iranian-American in Los Angeles in 2006 might be treated like dangerous criminal and get accused of mileage out of crying racism by an asshole like you?

    I think not.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  161. To you creeps racism is an “accusation” made by non-whites egged on by “P.C.” whites.

    It can’ty be real because there are laws against it.

    Hey D’Nesh D’Sousa says racism is over so it MUST be true, right?

    And on top if it all anyone who complains about the status quo is just out to make money.

    WHAT A COUNTRY!!!!

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  162. I think that comment was uncalled for, David E. Are you sure that you’re on the right website?

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  163. Are you a parent, Jim?

    Why, would that somehow affect my opinion of some doofus screaming and yelling in a campus library while my upstanding young son or daughter was trying to study?

    I think that comment was uncalled for, David E. Are you sure that you’re on the right website?

    He rarely is.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  164. I think parenthood can flavor one’s perception of a situation like this.

    As a parent of a teenager, I would not stand for my child being tased multiple times in order to force exit from the library. A student would have to be overtly acting violently for that sort of treatment to be acceptable.

    Tasers are meant for violent people on PCP who are threatening someone’s safety. Tasers are not designed for ejecting people from public buildings.

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  165. As a parent of a teenager, I would not stand for my child being tased multiple times in order to force exit from the library.

    I would not stand for my child throwing himself down and throwing a temper tantrum when told to move along. This young man must have been a terror when Mommy didn’t buy him a candy bar at the checkout line.

    Tasers are not designed for ejecting people from public buildings.

    Apparently there were no catapults handy.

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  166. Went out came back.
    Everything same as ever.
    None of you idiots capable of responding to an argument.
    g’night all

    Alois Pacino (4218e6)

  167. Do you tase your children when they have a temper tantrum, Jim?

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  168. Do you tase your children when they have a temper tantrum, Jim?

    Do you play foosball on one leg while wearing a red hat?

    Jim Treacher (c4006e)

  169. This isn’t a racial issue, no matter how you spin it. It’s a brat issue. Another snotty jerk looking for attention. Or to test the situation – – and “question authority.”

    I definitely wouldn’t want my kid, brother, cousin or friend studying in the library and possibly subjected to potential violence. Let this be an example not pull any nonsense at UCLA.

    Vermont Neighbor (cd4d85)

  170. LA

    Take a peek at my comment about my college-attending daughter who is an RA this year.

    Considering some of the stuff she has had to call the campus police for, I’m glad when cops don’t put up with bs and put students like my daughter at risk.

    Obviously you feel your offspring may be in the habit of interfering with the police.

    Interesting.

    Darleen (03346c)

  171. Tasers are meant for violent people on PCP

    Your opinion or do you have a statutory source for that?

    I happened to watch through my den window as my local police, who were in pursuit of two possible armed gangbangers from a nearby park, locate one suspect hidden in a juniper hedge in my front yard. he got out put refused to obey the order to lay on the ground. They tased him three times before he complied so they could secure him and check for weapons.

    It’s a startling sight, but he wasn’t harmed and he wasn’t armed.

    That time.

    Darleen (03346c)

  172. Liberal Avenger, it isn’t farfetched that race played a roll. Neither is it farfetched that one of the cops recognized the kid as a former boyfriend of his girlfriend. Neither is it farfetched that the one of the cops is a bookie on the side and the kid owes him money. There are thousands of stories that you can make up that aren’t farfetched, but that doesn’t make it reasonable to latch onto them in the lack of any evidence whatsoever.

    There is nothing in the behavior of the police that isn’t fully and reasonably explained by the kid’s behavior. Since everything is explained without racism, there is no rational reason to bring racism into it –only political reasons.

    Doc Rampage (4a07eb)

  173. All of David E.’s comments are uncalled for.

    I don’t think any rational person would be too upset if his comments didn’t appear here. I have no idea how he recently got so enamored of the site, given that he once left a comment on a liberal web site calling for me to be fired from my job.

    In any event, I don’t think he adds anything positive. Does anyone here disagree?

    Anyone?

    Patterico (de0616)

  174. I, for one, would miss him dearly.

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  175. I didn’t hear the police referring to him as a “towelhead” or “wog” on that tape…

    Did anyone else?

    If not, will none of our liberal participants allow that this kid maybe (possibly, conceivably) got his butt in a sling, not for SWI, (Studying While Iranian) but for simply acting like a complete tool?

    Let’s have a little intellectual honesty here. I’ll allow the remote possibility that the LAPD managed to hire (and call for backup, on the same call) a group of closet racists just itching to lay the beat-down on a brown person, if the anti-police commenters here will acknowledge the far-greater possibility that this kid had a chip on his shoulder, resisted, and was simply experiencing the big-boy consequences of throwing a screaming 2-year-oldesque temper-tantrum in the wrong circumstance.

    Let them investigate, and let the chips fall where they may. If these cops turn out to have KKK hoods in their police lockers, I’ll join you in furiously excoriating them on this very blog (as will Patterico, I’m sure). by the same token, I expect acknowledgment from everyone criticising these officers if all this “racial profiling” crap turns into a big zero.

    Anyone want to take me up on that?

    TheNewGuy (2e7a0f)

  176. Your site is so entertaining Patterico. Almost as much fun as Cathy Seipp’s.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  177. Once again, these are not LAPD offics. UCPD are an entirely different law enforcement entity.

    sam (6d20f2)

  178. Which is why the police had to act assertively, using tasers or dragging him out of the room. The crowd of students were getting involved – the video lets you hear their objections and see how they were moving closer to the police. The situation was getting out of control.

    The situation was getting out of control due to what Jim calls:

    A “non-violent” person screaming “DON’T TOUCH ME!”

    I’ll admit that we didn’t see what happened before the situation got ugly. It’s too bad that wasn’t on tape. But I’ll stand by my assertion that the situation could have been defused without the taser.

    If they had worked a little hard on defusing the situation, they wouldn’t have had to threaten other students with the taser when the situation started to get out of control. That just makes them look like Keystone Cops.

    Steve (6ca389)

  179. actus, it’s simply not necessary to react so defensively to my question.

    I thought I was taking the offense.

    As I politely stated, I’m just curious where you attended college, that’s all.

    Ok. well, I don’t feel like tellign you. Why do you want to know? What use could it possibly be? Like would it matter if I was at community college, or Yale, or Oxford?

    actus (10527e)

  180. A little taser action will get that info out of you. Only kidding… I’m with you. TMI.

    Vermont Neighbor (cd4d85)

  181. Steve, Actus,
    Listen, why don’t you two go out and try your hand at Policing? I’d love to watch you two masterfully defuse every situation you’ll come up against.
    I find your smug Monday morning quarterbacking of each of these situations annoying and pointless. You obviously don’t have a clue what it is like in a tactical/street situation.
    Do us all a favor here. Refrain from name calling (‘pigs’ is one that comes to mind),grow up just a tad and think before you post.
    And while a Taser is not innocuous technology, it sure does beat a nightstick to the head any day.

    paul from fl (967602)

  182. I’d love to watch you two masterfully defuse every situation you’ll come up against.

    Its not that much masterfulness to let someone leave the library.

    actus (10527e)

  183. To follow up on a discussion earlier in this thread, I think it’s probable that UCLA’s campus police can handle a foreign student without profiling or discriminatory procedures. UCLA ranks 9th among US colleges in international student enrollment: “UCLA enrolled 4,217 students from overseas, more than 10 percent of the total enrollment.” That means one in every 10 UCLA students, not to mention assorted faculty, friends, and visitors, are foreign born. The UCLA campus police probably have more experience in dealing with foreign nationals than most US police.

    Campus police also have experience dealing with students and knowing when to defuse situations and let things slide … and when not to. The more I think about this, I wonder if the police believed this was a student who was out-of-control due to drugs or alcohol. Thanks to fictional and reality-based TV shows, I suspect it’s common for impaired people to nevertheless vigorously assert their political and legal rights. So which is more likely? That the police thought they had a spontaneous one-man protest rally or that they were dealing with an impaired and potentially dangerous individual making a scene?

    DRJ (1be297)

  184. What’s happening to my comments? Have I been banned?

    DRJ (1be297)

  185. I guess not, so I’ll try again. Here’s what I originally tried to post:

    To follow up on a discussion earlier in this thread, I think it’s probable that UCLA’s campus police can handle a foreign student without profiling or discriminatory procedures. UCLA ranks 9th among US colleges in international student enrollment: UCLA enrolled 4,217 students from overseas, more than 10 percent of the total enrollment.” That means one in every 10 UCLA students, not to mention assorted faculty, friends, and visitors, are foreign born. The UCLA campus police probably have more experience in dealing with foreign nationals than most US police.

    Campus police also have experience dealing with students and knowing when to defuse situations and let things slide … and when not to. The more I think about this, I wonder if the police believed this was a student who was out-of-control due to drugs or alcohol. Thanks to fictional and reality-based TV shows, I suspect it’s common for impaired people to nevertheless vigorously assert their political and legal rights. So which is more likely? That the police thought they had a spontaneous one-man protest rally or that they were dealing with an impaired and potentially dangerous individual making a scene?

    Perhaps my original comment was thrown out because of the UCLA statistical link. Here’s the longhand version for those who want to see UCLA’s international student statistics: http://www.international.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=34227

    DRJ (1be297)

  186. I guess not, so I’ll try again. Here’s what I originally tried to post:

    To follow up on a discussion earlier in this thread, I think it’s probable that UCLA’s campus police can handle a foreign student without profiling or discriminatory procedures. UCLA ranks 9th among US colleges in international student enrollment: UCLA enrolled 4,217 students from overseas, more than 10 percent of the total enrollment.” That means one in every 10 UCLA students, not to mention assorted faculty, friends, and visitors, are foreign born. The UCLA campus police probably have more experience in dealing with foreign nationals than most US police.

    Campus police also have experience dealing with students and knowing when to defuse situations and let things slide … and when not to. The more I think about this, I wonder if the police believed this was a student who was out-of-control due to drugs or alcohol. Thanks to fictional and reality-based TV shows, I suspect it’s common for impaired people to nevertheless vigorously assert their political and legal rights. So which is more likely? That the police thought they had a spontaneous one-man protest rally or that they were dealing with an impaired and potentially dangerous individual making a scene?

    Perhaps my original comment was thrown out because of the UCLA statistical link so I removed the link. It’s at UCLA’s website if you are curious.

    DRJ (1be297)

  187. Your comments got caught in the filter somehow. Sorry. Not much I can do about it. I de-spammed them.

    Patterico (de0616)

  188. Campus police also have experience dealing with students and knowing when to defuse situations and let things slide … and when not to.

    One would hope. But it looks like this situation wasn’t handled well at all.

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  189. Looks like you’re getting most of the same wacky comments we are, too. Somebody is even posing as Mostafa’s dad.

    Nothing like a good tasering to bring’em outta the wood work…

    California Conservative (e362dc)

  190. P.S. don’t forget to add the update about Mostafa altering his Facebook profile to show the softer-gentler side of his activist nature…

    He stopped just short of saying he enjoys long walks on the beach, but still likes to dance the night away.

    California Conservative (e362dc)

  191. Patterico,

    Thank you. The problem was apparently in the links because I had no problem once I took them out. UCLA’s URLs must not pass the spam filter.

    And please feel free to delete my duplicate comments. I’m wordy enough as it is without compounding it by double-posting.

    DRJ (1be297)

  192. He stopped just short of saying he enjoys long walks on the beach, but still likes to dance the night away.

    Whereas his real desire is to destroy the infidel, right?

    David Ehrenstein (dea91c)

  193. Whereas his real desire is to destroy the infidel, right?

    Or perhaps just to be a pest and race-baiter?

    Patterico (de0616)

  194. Anyone have a link to either his Facebook page or to a post about him changing it?

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  195. Mostafa Tabatabainejad, UCLA’s Angry Campus Activist…

    There’s a new controversy brewing, but the answer is quite simple: It’s called resisting arrest.

    Video here.
    So let’s break it down: If someone enters a library or computer lab, starts screaming and carrying-on like a maniac, you&#…

    California Conservative (f55714)

  196. California Conservative (trackback immediately above) has a link to the Facebook story.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  197. Or perhaps just to be a pest and race-baiter?

    I wonder what he thinks of bacon.

    actus (10527e)

  198. Tabatabainejad should not have been stopped by police since he was leaving, but monitored by them. Since he was stopped and fell to the floor on purpose the police should have handcuffed him and dragged him out of the building. I personally do not think that Tabatabainejad should sue UCLA UCPD, however I do think that each police officer that used a taser should be put on administrative leave and the policy on use of tasers should be more restrictive.

    Timothy Clemans (a0bb7e)

  199. “If you want your trial on the curb, with the police being the prosecutor, judge and executioner, be a jerk. If you want your trial in the courtroom with a lawyer, judge and jury, don’t be a jerk.”

    -nk

    Right. Because EVERYONE gets a fair shake in the American legal system.

    Half the guys we see resisting arrest are opting to take their beating on the street (with the possibility of escaping incarceration) rather than taking it in prison after being glossed over by a kangaroo court.

    Leviticus (7018b9)

  200. ” I think the 60s are well-documented with much archival footage and anyone interested is able to study, learn, analyze and decide. …I have researched the 60s, even did a student film which was well-received, all which seems a lifetime ago. What should we tell students and historians regarding 1776? You don’t know, you weren’t around then?”

    -Vermont Neighbor

    Well, excuse me all to hell.

    Leviticus (7018b9)

  201. The lil turd got far less than what he deserved for acting like a complete savage! He needed to get the arse whooping that his father should have given him a long time ago. I hope the Officers are ok and didn’t suffer any back injuries lifting the lil turd. The rable rousers parents should be tazed next for impropperly raising the lil terror and trusting him on the rest of us.

    To All my fellow Warrior cops,
    Stay Safe
    Ed O’Shea

    Ed O'Shea (ee9fe2)

  202. Is it only me, or did anyone else dig up their old copy of “Four Way Street” by CSNY and play “Ohio” while reading the chain above?

    Patterico — Please fix the numbering on the comments.

    nosh (ee9fe2)

  203. Looks fine to me. You’re #204.

    Patterico (de0616)

  204. You’re late to the party. It was a string of posts, way back up there. Start at the top and read like you care.

    What should we tell students and historians regarding 1776? You don’t know, you weren’t around then?”

    Vermont Neighbor (cd4d85)

  205. it was a thing of beauty….I wish the officers were able to work the kid over like he deserved, but those days are long gone.

    What blows me away is all these young people who think they can ignore police officers and outright defy them whenever they want to.

    University education at it’s finest

    senorlechero (360f45)

  206. David Ehrenstein:

    you Rethugs constantly bring up Byrd’s KKK membership as if ti were current and he still had a sheet in his closet.

    He is no longer a member, or a racist.

    The same can’t be said of Trent Lot with his White Citizen’s Council connections or Strom maid fucker Thurmond.

    If Thurmond is still having sex with maids, then he must be putting Casanova and Don Juan to shame as a sexual performer, given that Thurmond has been dead for three years. (And Thurmond impregnated his family’s maid in 1925, seventeen years before Robert Byrd joined the Klan.)

    Joshua (d07707)

  207. Half the guys we see resisting arrest are opting to take their beating on the street (with the possibility of escaping incarceration) rather than taking it in prison after being glossed over by a kangaroo court.

    Well, who can doubt that? Your vast experience on the subject is compelling.

    Patterico (de0616)

  208. Even though Patterico said,

    “All of David E.’s comments are uncalled for.

    I don’t think any rational person would be too upset if his comments didn’t appear here. I have no idea how he recently got so enamored of the site, given that he once left a comment on a liberal web site calling for me to be fired from my job.

    In any event, I don’t think he adds anything positive. Does anyone here disagree?

    Anyone?”

    I see that only Liberal Avenger possibly objected and David E. continues to comment here.

    Patterico, silence implies assent.

    Leviticus, the Earp brothers and Doc Holliday were put on trial after the gunfight at the OK corral and were acquitted. The McLowery brothers and Billy Clanton remained dead. Don’t you think that the McLowerys and Clanton would have been better off if they had gone along quietly to that “kangaroo court”?

    nk (35ba30)

  209. “Half the guys we see resisting arrest are opting to take their beating on the street (with the possibility of escaping incarceration) rather than taking it in prison after being glossed over by a kangaroo court.

    Well, who can doubt that? Your vast experience on the subject is compelling.”

    -Patterico

    Go ahead and insist that everyone gets a fair shake in the American legal system so that I can laugh in your face (it’ll be hard to do with your head in the sand, but we’ll cross that road when we get there).

    You’re a lawyer. Is this not the case?

    Leviticus (43095b)

  210. This has nothing to do with racial profiling or the Patriot Act. This is about random ID checks and student safety. Tabatabainejad failed to show an ID and refused to leave. When police arrive on scene, they are in charge and are obligated to investigate the situation. Officers are legally able to grab your arms and usher you off the premises. If you go limp, that’s resisting. Rules exist to ensure order and safety. Officers and campus security are proactive in ensuring student safety. Random ID checks are appropriate. All he needed to do was produce his ID. Police officers’ lawful authority must be respected. The police acted appropriately to a student acting obstinate and adversarial and whom refused to obey campus security’s order to leave the premises until the police took appropriate actions to remove him from the premises. Only then did he desire to leave. Its rather too late at that point. Tabatabainejad was adversarial from the start. He should be fined and/or jailed.

    Chad (c84e54)

  211. Leviticus, you have to laugh a little. Here’s one for you.

    A very successful lawyer parks his brand-new Lexus in front of his office, ready to show it off to his colleagues. As he gets out, a truck passes too closely and completely rips off the door on the driver’s side.

    The lawyer immediately grabs his cell phone, dials 911, and within minutes a policeman pulls up. Before the officer has a chance to ask any questions, the lawyer starts screaming hysterically that his Lexus, which he had just bought the day before, is now completely ruined and would never be the same, no matter what the body shop did to it.

    When the lawyer finally calms down a bit, the officer shakes his head in disgust and disbelief. “I can’t believe how materialistic you lawyers are,” he says. “You are so focused on your possessions that you don’t notice anything else.”

    “How can you say such a thing?” asks the lawyer.

    The cop replies, “Don’t you know that your left arm is missing from the elbow down? It must have been torn off when the truck hit you.”

    “My God!” screams the lawyer. “Where’s my Rolex?!”

    lawyer jokes

    Vermont Neighbor (cd4d85)

  212. Leviticus,
    “Go ahead and insist that everyone gets a fair shake in the American legal system so that I can laugh in your face (it’ll be hard to do with your head in the sand, but we’ll cross that road when we get there).

    You’re a lawyer. Is this not the case? ”

    You say that as if you have some personal experience. Care to share how the judicial system has screwed you? Patterico is a prosecutor is he not? So i’d imagine from his perspective, everybody does get a fair trial. Anyway, I’m fairly certain our imperfect legal system is the best in the world.

    G (722480)

  213. Leviticus,

    Go ahead and insist that everyone gets a fair shake in the American legal system so that I can laugh in your face (it’ll be hard to do with your head in the sand, but we’ll cross
    And what other system is better? Examples please.
    Secondarily, if it is soooo dangerous to be in this country, and to be at the mercy of our Flawed and murderous legal system, why do so many people persist in coming?

    Puh-leeze

    paul from fl (001f65)

  214. It doesn’t have to screw me for it to screw somebody.

    Leviticus (3c2c59)

  215. And how many appeals did he get? He confessed to the crime! Come on man…. If anything, the article proves how our system works.

    G (722480)

  216. My only point is that there are times when a trip to court doesn’t necessarily result in a fair trial. The guy was “within minutes of being executed”. That’s cutting it a little close for my taste, considering the circumstances.

    Doesn’t this disturb you?

    Leviticus (68eff1)

  217. While I realize people do false confessions, he probably confessed before he realized he faced the death penalty.

    Anyway, I fail to see how he isn’t getting a “fair shake” in the judicial system.

    G (722480)

  218. What if no one had noticed his lawyer was asleep? He wasn’t saved off any legal technicality that could be used as precedent in other cases: He was saved because of the vigilance of a human judge, a quality that may not be present in other situations.

    Leviticus (68eff1)

  219. People on death row get plenty of time and reasons for appeal. The fact of the matter is, that he’s had many appeals, all fail to change the ruling. Have you ever had jury duty or stepped into a court room for more than an hour? Anyway, I will say that falling asleep on the job is a horrible thing, in any profession. Even worse if somebody’s life is in your hands. Though I think the article is missing some needed information. Like did the judge in the original case hold the lawyer in contempt? When did the lawyer fall asleep (during deliberations, cross examinations, recess…) And did the lawyer do it on purpose so the murderer could appeal? Anyway, it’s pretty hard to be somebodies lawyer and fall asleep in a court room and not be noticed.

    G (722480)

  220. You are running a real fine line, G. The appeals process is a two way street. The State of Texas repeatedly argued that a sleeping lawyer could provide an adequate defense to his/her client.

    Think of it this way: If Burdine had a high-priced, private attorney, do you think that attorney would be falling asleep during his trial?

    Do you think Ken Lay’s attorneys were falling asleep during his trial?

    Leviticus (7494e0)

  221. Give it up.

    Vermont Neighbor,

    Good jokes. Didn’t get to say thanks yesterday, so…thanks. I showed a few to my brother, and he laughed his ass off.

    Leviticus (7494e0)

  222. Leviticus,

    Your argument appeared to be that a substantial majority don’t get a fair shake. Are there isolated cases of injustice? Yes, and good prosecutors work to make sure those don’t happen. But I can tell you I see guilty people go free. I don’t see innocent people getting convicted.

    Patterico (de0616)

  223. “…good prosecutors work to make sure those don’t happen”

    -Patterico

    Expound on this, if you could. It sounds to me like you’re saying that a prosecutor cares about something other than proving that his target is guilty.

    “…I can tell you I see guilty people go free”

    -Patterico

    You can tell me that you see people YOU THINK are guilty go free.

    Sure, most people that go to court get a fair trial. But some people don’t , and I’d be willing to bet that the people getting shafted aren’t the rich or the famous.

    Leviticus (43095b)

  224. Onnce woudl have been ok, but why did the officer continue to tase him while handcuffed 5 times?

    UCLA Bruin? (536aed)

  225. So I take it the fact that the person confessed to murder, means nothing to you?

    Anwyay, I’m sure Patterico sees people who are guilty of accused crime go free because he ends up going after them again down the road…

    G (722480)

  226. God I love that video.

    Christoph (9824e6)

  227. Hello people5844e81c1a0cb90dcd534d21858a1845

    Hi boys! (78bc6d)


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