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	<title>Comments on: This Post Is Not Really About Ann Coulter . . . Exactly</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: Patterico&#8217;s Pontifications &#187; Glenn Greenwald: Douchebag</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-57364</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico&#8217;s Pontifications &#187; Glenn Greenwald: Douchebag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-57364</guid>
		<description>[...] This is classic Greenwald: a confident assertion of fact, which is totally false. I have called Bill O&#8217;Reilly a &#8220;humorless and self-absorbed blowhard&#8221; and called Michael Savage a &#8220;moron.&#8221; I regularly denounce Ann Coulter here, and recently spent days boxing her about the ears for her numerous stupid and violent comments about public officials. There are so many posts I can&#8217;t link them all; a few examples here, here, here, here, and here. Regular commenters will tell you there are many more; indeed, they got very frustrated with me for being so obsessed on the topic. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is classic Greenwald: a confident assertion of fact, which is totally false. I have called Bill O&#8217;Reilly a &#8220;humorless and self-absorbed blowhard&#8221; and called Michael Savage a &#8220;moron.&#8221; I regularly denounce Ann Coulter here, and recently spent days boxing her about the ears for her numerous stupid and violent comments about public officials. There are so many posts I can&#8217;t link them all; a few examples here, here, here, here, and here. Regular commenters will tell you there are many more; indeed, they got very frustrated with me for being so obsessed on the topic. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45650</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45650</guid>
		<description>Not sure where you get the idea tht &quot;coward&quot; automatically implies comparisons to oneself more than any other criticism does, but whatever.  I will grant you this much, however.  Speaking purely hypothetically, if some moron who hadn&#039;t even been following this debate were to suddenly jump in the middle of it now and &lt;a href=&quot;http://xrlq.com/2006/06/17/a-coulterism-even-a-lawyer-can-love/#comment-73571&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;call both of us idiots,&lt;/a&gt; it would be reasonable to assume that he/she/it consider himself/herself/itself to be smarter than either of us, and could pose a credibility problems for him/her/it if this proved &lt;a href=&quot;http://steveaudio.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;not to be the case.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure where you get the idea tht &#8220;coward&#8221; automatically implies comparisons to oneself more than any other criticism does, but whatever.  I will grant you this much, however.  Speaking purely hypothetically, if some moron who hadn&#8217;t even been following this debate were to suddenly jump in the middle of it now and <a href="http://xrlq.com/2006/06/17/a-coulterism-even-a-lawyer-can-love/#comment-73571" rel="nofollow">call both of us idiots,</a> it would be reasonable to assume that he/she/it consider himself/herself/itself to be smarter than either of us, and could pose a credibility problems for him/her/it if this proved <a href="http://steveaudio.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">not to be the case.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45611</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45611</guid>
		<description>Xrlq,

A consummately silly point.

If someone says &quot;Barry Bonds is slow&quot; and their companion replies &quot;as if you&#039;re fast!&quot; -- they&#039;ll probably reply &quot;I never said I was.&quot;

Cowardice is different from speed.  When almost anyone says &quot;You&#039;re a coward,&quot; it&#039;s assumed that they implicitly mean &quot;and I&#039;m not.&quot;

If someone reads a war story and says: &quot;What a coward this soldier is -- he didn&#039;t even throw himself on the grenade to save his pals&quot; his companion might well say: &quot;Hmmmm.  I note you&#039;re not even over there fighting the war.&quot;  And that would be a valid point, because the speaker&#039;s assumed message was: &quot;I would have done it differently.&quot;

(Note that this is different from the &quot;chickenhawk &quot;argument.  Most war-supporters don&#039;t go around questioning the courage of soldiers.  If they did, the chickenhawk argument would be valid.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Xrlq,</p>
<p>A consummately silly point.</p>
<p>If someone says &#8220;Barry Bonds is slow&#8221; and their companion replies &#8220;as if you&#8217;re fast!&#8221; &#8212; they&#8217;ll probably reply &#8220;I never said I was.&#8221;</p>
<p>Cowardice is different from speed.  When almost anyone says &#8220;You&#8217;re a coward,&#8221; it&#8217;s assumed that they implicitly mean &#8220;and I&#8217;m not.&#8221;</p>
<p>If someone reads a war story and says: &#8220;What a coward this soldier is &#8212; he didn&#8217;t even throw himself on the grenade to save his pals&#8221; his companion might well say: &#8220;Hmmmm.  I note you&#8217;re not even over there fighting the war.&#8221;  And that would be a valid point, because the speaker&#8217;s assumed message was: &#8220;I would have done it differently.&#8221;</p>
<p>(Note that this is different from the &#8220;chickenhawk &#8220;argument.  Most war-supporters don&#8217;t go around questioning the courage of soldiers.  If they did, the chickenhawk argument would be valid.)</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45606</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45606</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;You&#039;re a coward&quot; carries the implicit message &quot;unlike me.&quot; &quot;You&#039;re a coward, unlike Ann Coulter&quot; carries the implicit message &quot;and unlike me.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If made by one blogger to another blogger, or by one talk show host to another, etc., I agree.  But when a random calls a talk show host to bitch and whine, I&#039;m more inclined to interpret that as a &quot;why can&#039;t you be more like my hero so-and-so&quot; dig than &quot;why can&#039;t you be more like me.&quot;  The same is true, albeit to a lesser degree, of random commenters.  They don&#039;t expect you to be like them, they expect you to be like their heros.  Thus, when you turn around and say &quot;oh yeah, if I&#039;m such a coward, why are you anonymous,&quot; it smacks of Barry Bonds being told &quot;my grandmother can run faster than that,&quot; and having him respond &quot;Oh yeah?  I&#039;ll race her any day!  Then we&#039;ll see who&#039;s really faster!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;You&#8217;re a coward&#8221; carries the implicit message &#8220;unlike me.&#8221; &#8220;You&#8217;re a coward, unlike Ann Coulter&#8221; carries the implicit message &#8220;and unlike me.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>If made by one blogger to another blogger, or by one talk show host to another, etc., I agree.  But when a random calls a talk show host to bitch and whine, I&#8217;m more inclined to interpret that as a &#8220;why can&#8217;t you be more like my hero so-and-so&#8221; dig than &#8220;why can&#8217;t you be more like me.&#8221;  The same is true, albeit to a lesser degree, of random commenters.  They don&#8217;t expect you to be like them, they expect you to be like their heros.  Thus, when you turn around and say &#8220;oh yeah, if I&#8217;m such a coward, why are you anonymous,&#8221; it smacks of Barry Bonds being told &#8220;my grandmother can run faster than that,&#8221; and having him respond &#8220;Oh yeah?  I&#8217;ll race her any day!  Then we&#8217;ll see who&#8217;s really faster!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45603</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45603</guid>
		<description>James B. Shearer:

&lt;em&gt;Coulter is also risking what every prominent person risks, a nut with a gun and a grudge. People as deliberately provocative as she is are in fact displaying considerable personal courage.&lt;/em&gt;

Mmmm, okay.  I guess by your logic there&#039;s nobody more courageous than Ted Rall.  That&#039;s certainly how he sees it.

He lost his cartoon&#039;s spot in the &lt;em&gt;Washington Post&lt;/em&gt; due to the Terror Widows cartoon.  And he gets regular death threats.

If you want to say Ted Rall has courage as well, to be consistent, then I guess you have something of a point.  But including Ted Rall shows how silly the point is, because he&#039;s a twit.  I&#039;m just not sure how admirable it is when someone&#039;s &quot;courageous&quot; acts are virtually always stupid as well.  As I said above, there is indeed a difference between courage and stupidity, and I think we&#039;re conflating the two here.

Ultimately, as I said above in the thread, I&#039;d prefer to save the word &quot;courage&quot; for people who really display it, and do great things with it.  Like our soldiers.

&lt;em&gt;Patterico, you claim Coulter is not risking anything because her employers are conservatives and only liberals are complaining about her. This is a pretty unconvincing claim considering the amount of complaining you have been doing about her. Or are you a secret liberal?&lt;/em&gt;

You got me!

Yeah, Ann Coulter sure displays a lot of courage, risking a few posts from Patterico, who gets 2000-3000 visitors a day.  He might even convince &lt;em&gt;one person&lt;/em&gt; to change their mind about her!  (Actually, as we have seen, that&#039;s not even true.)  Amazing, that kind of courage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James B. Shearer:</p>
<p><em>Coulter is also risking what every prominent person risks, a nut with a gun and a grudge. People as deliberately provocative as she is are in fact displaying considerable personal courage.</em></p>
<p>Mmmm, okay.  I guess by your logic there&#8217;s nobody more courageous than Ted Rall.  That&#8217;s certainly how he sees it.</p>
<p>He lost his cartoon&#8217;s spot in the <em>Washington Post</em> due to the Terror Widows cartoon.  And he gets regular death threats.</p>
<p>If you want to say Ted Rall has courage as well, to be consistent, then I guess you have something of a point.  But including Ted Rall shows how silly the point is, because he&#8217;s a twit.  I&#8217;m just not sure how admirable it is when someone&#8217;s &#8220;courageous&#8221; acts are virtually always stupid as well.  As I said above, there is indeed a difference between courage and stupidity, and I think we&#8217;re conflating the two here.</p>
<p>Ultimately, as I said above in the thread, I&#8217;d prefer to save the word &#8220;courage&#8221; for people who really display it, and do great things with it.  Like our soldiers.</p>
<p><em>Patterico, you claim Coulter is not risking anything because her employers are conservatives and only liberals are complaining about her. This is a pretty unconvincing claim considering the amount of complaining you have been doing about her. Or are you a secret liberal?</em></p>
<p>You got me!</p>
<p>Yeah, Ann Coulter sure displays a lot of courage, risking a few posts from Patterico, who gets 2000-3000 visitors a day.  He might even convince <em>one person</em> to change their mind about her!  (Actually, as we have seen, that&#8217;s not even true.)  Amazing, that kind of courage.</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45597</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45597</guid>
		<description>&quot;You&#039;re a coward&quot; carries the implicit message &quot;unlike me.&quot;  &quot;You&#039;re a coward, unlike Ann Coulter&quot; carries the implicit message &quot;and unlike me.&quot;

To make an unrelated point, Xrlq, just how obsessed are you with Ann Coulter?  I note that, unlike Instapundit, you have posted several items about her in recent days.  It indicates an unhealthy obsession on your part, as compared to, say, Instapundit.

(If anyone doesn&#039;t understand the point I just made, they&#039;ll soon be helping me make it.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You&#8217;re a coward&#8221; carries the implicit message &#8220;unlike me.&#8221;  &#8220;You&#8217;re a coward, unlike Ann Coulter&#8221; carries the implicit message &#8220;and unlike me.&#8221;</p>
<p>To make an unrelated point, Xrlq, just how obsessed are you with Ann Coulter?  I note that, unlike Instapundit, you have posted several items about her in recent days.  It indicates an unhealthy obsession on your part, as compared to, say, Instapundit.</p>
<p>(If anyone doesn&#8217;t understand the point I just made, they&#8217;ll soon be helping me make it.)</p>
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		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45534</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 13:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45534</guid>
		<description>Point 2 is valid, but Point 3 is a bit strained, given the quasi-First Amendment protections you enjoy (this time I do mean &quot;derive a secondary benefit from,&quot; without regard to whether you subjectively enjoy them or not) as a civil servant.  Point 1, on the other hand, is just plain silly.  If you face off with an anonymous commenter whose argument boils down to &quot;yer a coward, unlike me,&quot; then sure, raising the commenter&#039;s own cowardice bears on that contrast quite nicely.  But if the essence of the argument is &quot;yer a coward, unlike Ann Coulter,&quot; then the commenter&#039;s courage/cowardice is not legitimately at issue, and it&#039;s a cheap shot to act as though it is.  I don&#039;t believe for a minute that you are a coward, but if I did, watching you demand the identity of the anonymous commenter who called you on it would tend to &lt;i&gt;confirm&lt;/i&gt; that suspicion, not to debunk it.  After all, the fact that the guy calling you a coward may &lt;i&gt;himself&lt;/i&gt; be a coward has no bearing on the question of whether or not &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; are.  Quickly changing the subject and going after him instead, does.  It&#039;s a dodge, not a valid counter-argument.

Personally, I think Barry Bonds is a slow runner, a lousy fielder, and a so-so thrower.  I think Ted Rall draws poorly, and that every song ever recorded by Poison, Alice in Chains or Jane&#039;s Addiction sucks ass.  Am I precluded from doing so because I have even less talent in these areas than they do?  Or am I allowed to say these things, anonymously even, where the implicit contrast I&#039;m drawing is to other baseball players, cartoonists and rock stars, and not to myself?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point 2 is valid, but Point 3 is a bit strained, given the quasi-First Amendment protections you enjoy (this time I do mean &#8220;derive a secondary benefit from,&#8221; without regard to whether you subjectively enjoy them or not) as a civil servant.  Point 1, on the other hand, is just plain silly.  If you face off with an anonymous commenter whose argument boils down to &#8220;yer a coward, unlike me,&#8221; then sure, raising the commenter&#8217;s own cowardice bears on that contrast quite nicely.  But if the essence of the argument is &#8220;yer a coward, unlike Ann Coulter,&#8221; then the commenter&#8217;s courage/cowardice is not legitimately at issue, and it&#8217;s a cheap shot to act as though it is.  I don&#8217;t believe for a minute that you are a coward, but if I did, watching you demand the identity of the anonymous commenter who called you on it would tend to <i>confirm</i> that suspicion, not to debunk it.  After all, the fact that the guy calling you a coward may <i>himself</i> be a coward has no bearing on the question of whether or not <i>you</i> are.  Quickly changing the subject and going after him instead, does.  It&#8217;s a dodge, not a valid counter-argument.</p>
<p>Personally, I think Barry Bonds is a slow runner, a lousy fielder, and a so-so thrower.  I think Ted Rall draws poorly, and that every song ever recorded by Poison, Alice in Chains or Jane&#8217;s Addiction sucks ass.  Am I precluded from doing so because I have even less talent in these areas than they do?  Or am I allowed to say these things, anonymously even, where the implicit contrast I&#8217;m drawing is to other baseball players, cartoonists and rock stars, and not to myself?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Kellogg</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45469</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Kellogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 07:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45469</guid>
		<description>James,

It doesn&#039;t matter to me why Coulter says what she says, what matters to me is when she is just plain wrong, or deliberately insulting, and refuses to correct her error when said error is pointed out to her. The woman has all the intellectual courage of Dan Rather.

To quote Harlan Ellison, &quot;You have the right to your opinion, you don&#039;t have the right to be wrong.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter to me why Coulter says what she says, what matters to me is when she is just plain wrong, or deliberately insulting, and refuses to correct her error when said error is pointed out to her. The woman has all the intellectual courage of Dan Rather.</p>
<p>To quote Harlan Ellison, &#8220;You have the right to your opinion, you don&#8217;t have the right to be wrong.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James B. Shearer</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45459</link>
		<dc:creator>James B. Shearer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45459</guid>
		<description>Patterico, you claim Coulter is not risking anything because her employers are conservatives and only liberals are complaining about her.    This is a pretty unconvincing claim considering the amount of complaining you have been doing about her.  Or are you a secret liberal?

Coulter is also risking what every prominent person risks, a nut with a gun and a grudge.  People as deliberately provocative as she is are in fact displaying considerable personal courage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patterico, you claim Coulter is not risking anything because her employers are conservatives and only liberals are complaining about her.    This is a pretty unconvincing claim considering the amount of complaining you have been doing about her.  Or are you a secret liberal?</p>
<p>Coulter is also risking what every prominent person risks, a nut with a gun and a grudge.  People as deliberately provocative as she is are in fact displaying considerable personal courage.</p>
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		<title>By: See-Dubya</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/comment-page-1/#comment-45452</link>
		<dc:creator>See-Dubya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 06:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/2006/06/17/4713/this-post-is-not-really-about-ann-coulter-exactly/#comment-45452</guid>
		<description>Yes, but I think they paid Ann Coulter a bit more than that.

Usually people lose columns for dishonesty (Doug Bandow) or accusations of dishonesty (Michael Fumento), and not for extremism.  If they say something too hot in a column, they&#039;ll just kill that column.  

But I notice that when she made her&quot;towelhead&quot; comment, she changed it to &quot;jihad monkey&quot; for her syndicated column when it ran on Townhall.com.  So I htink she is a little concerned about getting too marginalized or alienating too many publishers.  She&#039;ll say things in a book she won&#039;t say in a column.  She&#039;s walking the line here, getting just enough controversy to keep her fans engorged and tingling, but not enough to get kicked out of syndication.

She may have miscalculated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but I think they paid Ann Coulter a bit more than that.</p>
<p>Usually people lose columns for dishonesty (Doug Bandow) or accusations of dishonesty (Michael Fumento), and not for extremism.  If they say something too hot in a column, they&#8217;ll just kill that column.  </p>
<p>But I notice that when she made her&#8221;towelhead&#8221; comment, she changed it to &#8220;jihad monkey&#8221; for her syndicated column when it ran on Townhall.com.  So I htink she is a little concerned about getting too marginalized or alienating too many publishers.  She&#8217;ll say things in a book she won&#8217;t say in a column.  She&#8217;s walking the line here, getting just enough controversy to keep her fans engorged and tingling, but not enough to get kicked out of syndication.</p>
<p>She may have miscalculated.</p>
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