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	<title>Comments on: Leniency Has a Cost</title>
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	<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: Patterico&#8217;s Pontifications &#187;</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-41138</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico&#8217;s Pontifications &#187;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 13:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-41138</guid>
		<description>[...] I told you that the County Supervisors (who are responsible for allocating enough money for law enforcement in L.A. County) are primarily to blame &#8212; and so are you voters if you keep re-electing them. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I told you that the County Supervisors (who are responsible for allocating enough money for law enforcement in L.A. County) are primarily to blame &#8212; and so are you voters if you keep re-electing them. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico&#8217;s Pontifications &#187; More on Early Release</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-40026</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico&#8217;s Pontifications &#187; More on Early Release</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 14:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-40026</guid>
		<description>[...] Remember: it&#8217;s your fault for continuing to vote these people into office. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Remember: it&#8217;s your fault for continuing to vote these people into office. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Independent Sources</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-40000</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent Sources</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 05:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-40000</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Where was the public review and debate over the decision to circumvent judges, juries and prosecutors and return criminals to the streets? Why didn&#8217;t someone ask Philadelphia?&lt;/strong&gt;

	Two weeks ago the Los Angeles Times published Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll. The article described LA County&#8217;s early release program and the disastrous results  of putting convicted criminals back on the street prior to serving...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Where was the public review and debate over the decision to circumvent judges, juries and prosecutors and return criminals to the streets? Why didn&#8217;t someone ask Philadelphia?</strong></p>
<p>	Two weeks ago the Los Angeles Times published Releasing Inmates Early Has a Costly Human Toll. The article described LA County&#8217;s early release program and the disastrous results  of putting convicted criminals back on the street prior to serving&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-39504</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2006 01:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-39504</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I was under the impression that once incarcerated, you had lost your rights as a citizen?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The rule differs from state to state, but by and large that&#039;s only for a felony -- and in many states the restoration of civil rights occurs immediately upon the end of the sentence imposed by the court.

As I was growing up in California, an ex-felon had to petition for a pardon or some such to get his civil rights restored. I tend to think that&#039;s the right way to do that. And as a point of information, a close relative of mine was convicted of a felony in California, and has been a model citizen AFAIK since then, but doesn&#039;t feel strongly enough about his right to vote to seek its restoration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I was under the impression that once incarcerated, you had lost your rights as a citizen?</p></blockquote>
<p>The rule differs from state to state, but by and large that&#8217;s only for a felony &#8212; and in many states the restoration of civil rights occurs immediately upon the end of the sentence imposed by the court.</p>
<p>As I was growing up in California, an ex-felon had to petition for a pardon or some such to get his civil rights restored. I tend to think that&#8217;s the right way to do that. And as a point of information, a close relative of mine was convicted of a felony in California, and has been a model citizen AFAIK since then, but doesn&#8217;t feel strongly enough about his right to vote to seek its restoration.</p>
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		<title>By: paul from fl</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-39432</link>
		<dc:creator>paul from fl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 10:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-39432</guid>
		<description>I was under the impression that once incarcerated, you had lost your rights as a citizen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was under the impression that once incarcerated, you had lost your rights as a citizen?</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-39423</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 05:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-39423</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Jeff.  I have a feeling that nosh is a defense lawyer, based on his past comments.  But who knows for sure?  He said that the prosecutor in the Wempe priest/molestation case had committed prosecutorial misconduct.  Well, I know that prosecutor.  He&#039;s a good guy.  And Wempe is now going to prison.

Nosh can make his points, and we can discount them due to his failure to stand behind them.  That&#039;s all fine.  I agree that people who want to be nasty and attack people have more credibility when they put their money where their mouth is and stand behind their words with their name.  But it&#039;s not necessary to comment here.  Make your own judgments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jeff.  I have a feeling that nosh is a defense lawyer, based on his past comments.  But who knows for sure?  He said that the prosecutor in the Wempe priest/molestation case had committed prosecutorial misconduct.  Well, I know that prosecutor.  He&#8217;s a good guy.  And Wempe is now going to prison.</p>
<p>Nosh can make his points, and we can discount them due to his failure to stand behind them.  That&#8217;s all fine.  I agree that people who want to be nasty and attack people have more credibility when they put their money where their mouth is and stand behind their words with their name.  But it&#8217;s not necessary to comment here.  Make your own judgments.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff C</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-39420</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 05:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-39420</guid>
		<description>Patrick,

I know you can&#039;t put the genie back in the bottle, but do you ever wish you hadn&#039;t revealed your name?.  I&#039;m amazed how may people attack you *by name* yet do so anonymously.  What freakin cowards.  In a letter to the editor you have to at least put your name and your city.  Here, &quot;nosh&quot;, &quot;drummaster&quot; or &quot;zuma hans&quot; have no problem taking personal shots while hiding behind their keyboards.  Pretty juvenile.  None of them, of course, have the courage to state their names.

You are a better man than me for putting up with it.  Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick,</p>
<p>I know you can&#8217;t put the genie back in the bottle, but do you ever wish you hadn&#8217;t revealed your name?.  I&#8217;m amazed how may people attack you *by name* yet do so anonymously.  What freakin cowards.  In a letter to the editor you have to at least put your name and your city.  Here, &#8220;nosh&#8221;, &#8220;drummaster&#8221; or &#8220;zuma hans&#8221; have no problem taking personal shots while hiding behind their keyboards.  Pretty juvenile.  None of them, of course, have the courage to state their names.</p>
<p>You are a better man than me for putting up with it.  Keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-39419</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 05:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-39419</guid>
		<description>P.S.  If I were his judge, and I am not, he would neither be remanded nor serve time over this.  We need the jail and prison space for worse criminals.  And before you jump on me, if guilty he could never be in law enforcement anywhere in America again and that&#039;s not a small punishment for a 44-year old policeman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  If I were his judge, and I am not, he would neither be remanded nor serve time over this.  We need the jail and prison space for worse criminals.  And before you jump on me, if guilty he could never be in law enforcement anywhere in America again and that&#8217;s not a small punishment for a 44-year old policeman.</p>
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		<title>By: nk</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-39417</link>
		<dc:creator>nk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 05:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-39417</guid>
		<description>Nosh,

I have been personally involved in the case of a police officer, from a large city, who is now serving a life sentence.  LA is not Mexico City.  I have every expectation that the case will be handled by the numbers.  Whether he will be charged will depend on the strength of the prima facie evidence.  Whether he will be convicted will depend on the totality of the evidence.  Whether he will serve time will depend on the sentencing guideliens and factors in aggravation and mitigation.  Just as if it was you or me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nosh,</p>
<p>I have been personally involved in the case of a police officer, from a large city, who is now serving a life sentence.  LA is not Mexico City.  I have every expectation that the case will be handled by the numbers.  Whether he will be charged will depend on the strength of the prima facie evidence.  Whether he will be convicted will depend on the totality of the evidence.  Whether he will serve time will depend on the sentencing guideliens and factors in aggravation and mitigation.  Just as if it was you or me.</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2006/05/14/leniency-has-a-cost/comment-page-1/#comment-39416</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 04:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=4568#comment-39416</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I appreciate your thanking me for bringing the lying officer sting to your attention. I am sorry that my frustration made me appear hostile.

I apologize for using the wrong word. Your comment on the jails did not IGNORE the overcrowding issue, it DISMISSED it — “Well, it is overcrowded, to be sure — and that’s a valid concern, I suppose.” Which diminishes the “valid concern.” And the observation highlighted in your headline mentions TVs.&lt;/em&gt;

I think my opinion on this issue is clear.  Inmates&#039;s access to TV is none of a federal judge&#039;s business, and a federal judge that comments on the matter is clearly unaware of his limited role.  Overcrowding can be a constitutional issue, but recent stories on early release programs instituted to address such concerns shows that the competing concerns are, on the one hand, the need to keep criminals in jail and not killing/robbing/raping people, and, on the other hand, the need for inmates not to live in conditions that many illegal aliens find acceptable on a daily basis.

&lt;em&gt;I am very troubled by your response that while doing Habeas reviews you dismissed many cases but when you decided to fight you “never lost.” That is damning. Prosecutors are charged to do justice, not to win. But in the adversarial system where they confront defense attorneys whose obligation it is to do everything ethical to serve their clients, unfortunately winning becomes an objective. And being evaluated on conviction rates makes it worse.&lt;/em&gt;

Let me elaborate.  I believed I was doing justice at all times in the habeas unit.  When I fought a case, I believed that the conviction was supported by evidence that was untainted by testimony from dishonest police.  This is why, when I contested a habeas petition, I always prevailed in court -- because I was doing justice.  My cases came before Judge Fidler, who saw hundreds of similar cases, and had a good sense of which claims were valid and which weren&#039;t.  He never ruled against me.

&lt;em&gt;Interesting that you “never saw” the article about Zamora. Front page of the LA Times metro section, which you seem to peruse with a fine-tooth comb for anything you can discredit.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, I missed it.  Believe it or don&#039;t believe it, as you like -- but if you are going to call me a liar, I am going to call you an asshole.  I have to get to work very early nowadays, and we have had visitors for the past week and a half or so (and will for the next week).  Between that, working a full-time job, and caring for children, I am lucky to stay as informed as I do.

I recently posted on the weekend about a David Savage article on Brett Kavanaugh that had appeared on Tuesday.  I had missed it -- even though judicial confirmation wars are one of my top topics.  By your logic, I am going soft on Democrat unfairness towards qualified conservative nominees.  But I&#039;m not.  I&#039;m just not superhuman.  I miss things.

I often depend upon readers for tips.  If you had tipped me to this in a polite way, I would still have written a post.  I just wouldn&#039;t have thought you were a jerk.

&lt;em&gt;But let me stop being an asshole –&lt;/em&gt;

Too late.  You persist.  You experimented for a few lines with not being one, but it passed.

&lt;em&gt;Patterico, do you think he’ll be charged?

Do you think he’ll be convicted?

Do you think he’ll serve time?&lt;/em&gt;

How the hell should I know?

All I can say is: if the charges are true, he should be convicted and sent to prison.  That&#039;s my personal opinion.

&lt;em&gt;How many complaints and what kind of proof do you think had to occur before the LAPD even considered doing an investigation or sting?

Finally, do you think Zamora will spend even one second in cuffs and in custody if charged before he is released on bail? &lt;/em&gt;

There are plenty of bogus complaints against cops.  And, as this case shows, there are some valid ones.  Stings like this are very important for distinguishing between the two.

As to whether Zamora will bail out if charged, again, how the hell would I know?

All of this, like everything I say on this blog, is my personal opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I appreciate your thanking me for bringing the lying officer sting to your attention. I am sorry that my frustration made me appear hostile.</p>
<p>I apologize for using the wrong word. Your comment on the jails did not IGNORE the overcrowding issue, it DISMISSED it — “Well, it is overcrowded, to be sure — and that’s a valid concern, I suppose.” Which diminishes the “valid concern.” And the observation highlighted in your headline mentions TVs.</em></p>
<p>I think my opinion on this issue is clear.  Inmates&#8217;s access to TV is none of a federal judge&#8217;s business, and a federal judge that comments on the matter is clearly unaware of his limited role.  Overcrowding can be a constitutional issue, but recent stories on early release programs instituted to address such concerns shows that the competing concerns are, on the one hand, the need to keep criminals in jail and not killing/robbing/raping people, and, on the other hand, the need for inmates not to live in conditions that many illegal aliens find acceptable on a daily basis.</p>
<p><em>I am very troubled by your response that while doing Habeas reviews you dismissed many cases but when you decided to fight you “never lost.” That is damning. Prosecutors are charged to do justice, not to win. But in the adversarial system where they confront defense attorneys whose obligation it is to do everything ethical to serve their clients, unfortunately winning becomes an objective. And being evaluated on conviction rates makes it worse.</em></p>
<p>Let me elaborate.  I believed I was doing justice at all times in the habeas unit.  When I fought a case, I believed that the conviction was supported by evidence that was untainted by testimony from dishonest police.  This is why, when I contested a habeas petition, I always prevailed in court &#8212; because I was doing justice.  My cases came before Judge Fidler, who saw hundreds of similar cases, and had a good sense of which claims were valid and which weren&#8217;t.  He never ruled against me.</p>
<p><em>Interesting that you “never saw” the article about Zamora. Front page of the LA Times metro section, which you seem to peruse with a fine-tooth comb for anything you can discredit.</em></p>
<p>Well, I missed it.  Believe it or don&#8217;t believe it, as you like &#8212; but if you are going to call me a liar, I am going to call you an asshole.  I have to get to work very early nowadays, and we have had visitors for the past week and a half or so (and will for the next week).  Between that, working a full-time job, and caring for children, I am lucky to stay as informed as I do.</p>
<p>I recently posted on the weekend about a David Savage article on Brett Kavanaugh that had appeared on Tuesday.  I had missed it &#8212; even though judicial confirmation wars are one of my top topics.  By your logic, I am going soft on Democrat unfairness towards qualified conservative nominees.  But I&#8217;m not.  I&#8217;m just not superhuman.  I miss things.</p>
<p>I often depend upon readers for tips.  If you had tipped me to this in a polite way, I would still have written a post.  I just wouldn&#8217;t have thought you were a jerk.</p>
<p><em>But let me stop being an asshole –</em></p>
<p>Too late.  You persist.  You experimented for a few lines with not being one, but it passed.</p>
<p><em>Patterico, do you think he’ll be charged?</p>
<p>Do you think he’ll be convicted?</p>
<p>Do you think he’ll serve time?</em></p>
<p>How the hell should I know?</p>
<p>All I can say is: if the charges are true, he should be convicted and sent to prison.  That&#8217;s my personal opinion.</p>
<p><em>How many complaints and what kind of proof do you think had to occur before the LAPD even considered doing an investigation or sting?</p>
<p>Finally, do you think Zamora will spend even one second in cuffs and in custody if charged before he is released on bail? </em></p>
<p>There are plenty of bogus complaints against cops.  And, as this case shows, there are some valid ones.  Stings like this are very important for distinguishing between the two.</p>
<p>As to whether Zamora will bail out if charged, again, how the hell would I know?</p>
<p>All of this, like everything I say on this blog, is my personal opinion.</p>
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