Patterico's Pontifications

1/10/2006

Wherein I Make Patterico Long for the EU

Filed under: General — Angry Clam @ 6:28 am



[Posted by The Angry Clam]

The EU is pretty punitive about overbooking on flights . You get bumped, the airline forks over up to 600 Euro.

What we really need in the U.S. is to (1) force all our crappy legacy airlines to actually go out of business, rather than continue the loop of reorganizations that they do and (2) allow foreign carriers to conduct domestic flights if they so choose. Honestly, the problems airlines face isn’t going to go away until they, like the automotive companies, break the backs of their unions and get rid of defined benefit pensions.

Deregulation is key!

-The Angry Clam

22 Responses to “Wherein I Make Patterico Long for the EU”

  1. LOL! As an airline employee I can tell you that those 600 Euros you think you’ll get for being bumped off a flight isn’t handed out as often as you think and considering the costs of fly any of the Euro-Weasel Boxcars, the 600 Euros might just possibly cover a one way short trip…

    russ (769b82)

  2. I had an awesome flight on British Airways from Heathrow to Da Vinci in Rome a few years back.

    Cost me about $250 round trip, which isn’t a bad deal overall. Plus, I got unwillingly bumped, and let me tell you my experience.

    Sixty pounds to spend in the airport while I waited, and a first-class seat on the next flight, which happened to be an hour later.

    No way would I get that on any of our shitty domestic airlines.

    I should also add that the 600 Euro is in addition to the cost of a replacement flight.

    Angry Clam (fa7fff)

  3. Actually, Clam, deregulation in the early ’80s is what took away a lot of passengers’ rights including a realistic remedy for being bumped. Let’s face it, getting on a plane these days is a little bit like going to jail. You lose control of your fate. At least our host didn’t get shot by an air marshal.

    nk (8214ee)

  4. Airline deregulation in the 1980s was like California deregulation of power- half assed and incomplete, with the result of screwing stuff up far more than it was before, with the added benefit of “the market” getting blamed.

    Also, don’t forget my point that the private regulation that the various airline unions have forced upon carriers is a major source of their modern crappiness.

    Angry Clam (fa7fff)

  5. How many years ago?

    Try it today sir, I assure you that awsome flight (at one time Euro airlines were excellent) would be just a memory…

    Even socialist Europe is running into the laws of economics when it comes to fuel prices and the cost of labor…

    russ (769b82)

  6. Anyone remember the “Jimmy Carter” administration?

    It was his administration who pushed through the airline deregulation we suffer through today and his administration pushed it at the behest of the passengers that were flying then…

    People got exactly what they wished for, its just a shame they didn’t look to closely at what they were pushing for…

    30 years of airlining has taught me one thing for sure, the stupidest person on the planet is an airline passenger who still thinks it 1955…

    russ (769b82)

  7. Airline deregulation in the “80s” (late 70s) may not have been perfect, but it was a big improvement over what we had before. Has everyone forgotten how butt-expensive air travel was in the bad old days?

    Xrlq (428dfd)

  8. 2001.

    Angry Clam (fa7fff)

  9. The only reason the European airlines seem tolerable is because almost all of them are heavily subsidized by their governments.

    Our 1970s deregulation made the airlines very competitive and they slashed prices so much that even blue-collar people could take a plane trip once in a while. That’s good!

    Justice Frankfurter (2dcd84)

  10. Yes, airline travel has gotten a lot less expensive than it was pre-deregulation, but as #3 points out, we’re paying a high price for the low prices.

    As much as I’m not a fan of the airline unions, the poor service we get has little to do with them, or with the legacy carrier’s high labor costs. If the airlines lower their labor costs, they’ll simply lower their fares (as proof, look at Southwest and ValueJet, I mean AirTran, which are not hampered by legacy labor costs but price their flights below that of the airlines with a higher cost structure, rather than offering higher fares along with more ‘perks’, such as agreeing to not strand their passengers for the better part of three days).

    So long as passengers value low fares over just about every other factor (including on-time records, food, size of seat and convenience) the airlines have no incentive to offer us anything more than what they now offer… and that goes whether it is a domestic airline or a foreign carrier.

    steve sturm (e37e4c)

  11. That can’t be right. Last I checked, Southwest had one of the best on-time records of any airline, if not THE best. And JetBlue has fares as low as anybody, but provides more services than most, e.g., “free” snack boxes, more leg room, and your own personal friggin’ TV set. The main downside is that they don’t fly everywhere; presumably, they pick the routes and times carefully so the planes are always full.

    Xrlq (816c74)

  12. Sorry,

    I fly intra Europe all the time. Peanuts are gone, headsets are gone. Meal service is gone. On Time is gone. Put more than 44 pounds on the baggage scale, expect to pay more for your baggage than your ticket.

    Flights more than 4 hours still offer some amenities, but not many.

    The compensation for getting bumped is the same whether it is British Airways, Northwest or United. European compensation law is just different than US law…companies regularly shell out for compensation in Europe that no US company would ever dream of(I worked for a company that had 2 phone numbers…900-1234 and 902-1234…ended up compensating the person who had 901-1234 for nuisance…because people called 901-1234 by mistake), by the same token…they don’t have Mega Billion court awards.

    Soldier's Dad (ae8880)

  13. So flying is what makes this “Clam” fellow so angry! Epiphany!

    Mark Daniels (d86eaa)

  14. Some discount airlines may be taking some of their labor cost advantage and giving it to the passenger in the form of peanuts and leg room. And Southwest is definitely using their freedom from restrictive work rules to get their planes moved along faster (as well as, I believe, avoiding the relatively congested airports).

    But note that when they enter a market, they undercut the legacy carrier’s prices rather than offering more passenger perks at the higher price. And their advertising pushes low fares and not their pretty flight attendents, good coffee and superb baggage handling…. all proof, in my mind, that passengers value low prices over pretty much everything else.

    Inerestingly, if the legacy carriers succeed in shedding their high cost contracts (both labor costs and restrictive work rules), then watch them drive airfares down to the point where the likes of JetBlue can no longer offer the ‘freebies’ they are now providing.

    steve sturm (d3e296)

  15. “Honestly, the problems airlines face isn’t going to go away until they, like the automotive companies, break the backs of their unions and get rid of defined benefit pensions.”

    Try flying the most unionized airline, southwest.

    actus (85218a)

  16. Southwest, however, has a broken and hobbled union that doesn’t demand stupid, anachronistic shit like a defined benefit pension plan.

    Angry Clam (a7c6b1)

  17. “Southwest, however, has a broken and hobbled union that doesn’t demand stupid, anachronistic shit like a defined benefit pension plan.”

    How is their union broken or hobbled? and since when is defined benefit stupid or anachronistic?

    actus (85218a)

  18. You wrote:

    “What we really need in the U.S. is to (1) force all our crappy legacy airlines to actually go out of business, rather than continue the loop of reorganizations that they do”

    Truth is, if you fly a Big 6 legacy carrier, you will get more in the way of compensation/rerouting than if you were with a LCC (Low Cost Carrier). Sure, it’s nice to fly Southwest (WN) to cities on their network. But you don’t see them in places like Bismark, ND, or even Atlanta, Charlotte, Greensboro, Milwaukee and tons of other cities. And you won’t for a long while.

    For good insights into the airline/airplane industry, may I suggest the blog Enplaned.

    Mill Creek Don (4dfcb3)

  19. If those cities cannot support routes, then they don’t deserve major carrier flights.

    Angry Clam (a7c6b1)

  20. “ut you don’t see them in places like Bismark, ND, or even Atlanta, Charlotte, Greensboro, Milwaukee and tons of other cities.”

    Isn’t there a hub in atlanta?

    actus (85218a)

  21. Angry Clam – I find it ironic that you start the post by praising the way the EU deals with airlines and end it by calling for further deregulation.

    aphrael (3bacf3)

  22. I’m in favor of punishing airlines.

    I prefer deregulation, but I’ll accept wildly punitive fines.

    Angry Clam (a7c6b1)


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