Patterico's Pontifications

6/7/2005

FOIA Requests: Seeking Free Legal Advice

Filed under: Blogging Matters,Civil Liberties,Politics — Patterico @ 9:20 pm



Are there any FOIA experts out there who could walk me through the process of submitting a FOIA request?

Bottom line: I want John Kerry’s military records. I don’t have time to submit the request now or I’d look into the procedures myself; this is a request for (near) future reference.

I see a primer on how to get started here; the site suggests that my first hurdle may be convincing the relevant agency that I’m a representative of the news media (a good test for bloggers’ rights, wouldn’t you agree?).

Any help would be appreciated.

32 Responses to “FOIA Requests: Seeking Free Legal Advice”

  1. You’re going to have trouble with 5 USC 552(b)(6), the “invasion of privacy” one.

    Since the government is pretty picky about Form 180 needing to be signed before disclosing much of anything in the military file, I don’t think your FOIA Request is going to go very far.

    Angry Clam (f05866)

  2. I will consult with an experienced attorney in this matter and post back to you ASAP this week.

    But Patterico, I think it’s time conservative bloggers formed the “American Association of Independent Journalists” or some such named organization with a constitution and statement of standards and that we begin credentialing, giving awards and etc.

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  3. At the risk of sounding argumentative … why? John Kerry’s political career is over. The horse is dead. Beating it would serve only to give disinterested observers the impression that Kerry’s political opponents want to smear him.

    Of course, if Kerry ever campaigns for public office again, my objection will dissolve.

    Jeff Harrell (a5b150)

  4. Angry:

    Pull your nose out of your Bar Review books and click on the links in my post below about Michael Kranish. In particular, the one in the second paragraph. Kerry signed the Form 180, dude! He even found the stamp to mail it in!

    Problem is, Kranish may well be whitewashing the interpretation of the documents released — not that he would ever do such a thing. (Again, see the links in the earlier post.)

    Will you now be my guru and help me get the original records, which the Boston Globe is inexplicably withholding from the public?

    Jeff:

    If you can’t promise me Kerry isn’t running in 2008 — and you can’t — then I am pursuing this. Be assured that I won’t be the only one.

    Patterico (756436)

  5. The authorization of release allows for limited disclosure. I’m sure Kerry left the really good stuff undisclosed.

    In any event, the agency you’re going to want is the National Personnel Records Center of the National Archives and Records Administration. They even have a detailed set of instructions here: http://www.archives.gov/facilities/mo/st_louis/military_personnel_records/general_public.html

    Now’s also a good time to talk about what Form 180 (which Kerry apparently signed) actually does, and compare it to an authorization to disclose (which the NARA treats as a functionally separate item). Form 180 does allow for essentially full access to the file for joe blow (us), with one catch: Kerry has to sign it himself to authorize us. It does not appear (from my examination of the form) to function as a permanent waiver of confidentiality.

    Think you’ll be able to get John Kerry’s John Hancock?

    Angry Clam (f05866)

  6. Sorry about the non html tagged link there. I’d fix it, but I don’t have editing privileges on comments to your posts.

    Angry Clam (f05866)

  7. Patterico, I see you are getting some help on the FOIA issue, and I will be querying a Texas attorney on this tomorrow, but what about the credentials issue?

    Has anyone formed a national bloggers association which could formally establish, through a credentialing process, that news bloggers are journalists? Do you think this idea has any merit?

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  8. Ooh, ooh, I second ttyler5’s suggestion of professionally credentialing bloggers as journalists… and I suggest that one qualification required to be considered a real, credentialed blogger should be a degree from a credentialed journalism school!

    All in favor…?

    Dafydd

    Dafydd (df2f54)

  9. “Bottom line: I want John Kerry’s military records. I don’t have time to submit the request now or I’d look into the procedures myself; this is a request for (near) future reference.”

    You’re not going to get them. Privacy exemption.

    actus (3be069)

  10. Oops, after reading some of my books, it looks like you might get them if this “form 180” is the waiver that I think it is. At least, you’ll get what this 180 covers.

    If you find any statements by any of the swifties, I’d love to see what they said back then.

    actus (3be069)

  11. Actually, the statements by the swifties might be covered under their privacy, not waivable by kerry.

    Sorry for all the posts. In hurry to go to work.

    actus (3be069)

  12. Patrick, I think by witch-hunting this, you’d end up doing a lot more harm than good. I think it’d be great if you’d consider just letting the issue drop. Vendettas are not popular with the electorate.

    Jeff Harrell (a5b150)

  13. Nah. When John Kerry states unequivocally that he is no longer interested in running for President, that is when to let the issue drop.

    Xrlq (e2795d)

  14. Mixed metaphors and forgotten politicians

    Patrick “Patterico” Frey wants Senator John Kerry’s military service records, and he’s willing to go to the trouble of filing a Freedom of Information Act request to get them.

    John Kerry, for those who have, you know, moved on since last Novem…

    The Shape of Days (af7df9)

  15. dafydd, you misunderstand. A California court has already that bloggers are not protected by shield laws: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4319715.stm

    and the FEC is contemplating an even more drastic ruling:

    http://www.onlinecoalition.com/blog

    A professional association which formally extends the definition of “journalists” to bloggers would be one way to gain legal recognition in the eyes of the courts.

    We can rant all we want about the MSM and the First Amendment and sign every petition on the web and it may not do any good, but courts must recognize such organizations as legal entities.

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  16. Kerry has slandered a generation of warriors both in his youth and in his dotage. Pursuit of the truth has this noble quality about it-Swifties would be vindicated, and, by extension, every other veteran of Vietnam and other wars. The pursuit of truth is what you are after-Kerry doesn’t matter.

    leon dixon (8858b4)

  17. The obsession with Kerry’s qualifications for his Purple Heart and other medals is an insult to everyone who served in Vietnam. Strongly put, this puts into question all medals earned over there by anybody. The time for debate was then, by the people in charge of those things.

    However, I hate slanted news organizations omitting interesting data. People buy newspapers for information, not for a bunch of talking points for their side.

    Ladainian (91b3b2)

  18. The accusation that this is a “witch hunt” or “vendetta” is histrionic, Jeff. Now that Kerry has signed Form 180 and supposedly made his records available to the public, there are a few of us who’d like some questions answered. I don’t have time to go into details now, but anyone who has read Beldar, Tom Maguire, or Captain Ed knows what I’m talking about.

    Frankly, I’d be curious regardless of whether Kerry might run again — but that possibility certainly makes the quest relevant. I don’t expect to be able to to anything other than prove that he hasn’t *really* made his complete set of records fully available to all members of the public. But even that is a relevant fact, if true.

    Patterico (e9fb45)

  19. Tyler, the BBC story is wrong, or at least outdated. The ruling discussed in that story was tentative; the “final” one issued a week later, which is currently on appeal, dodged the issue of whether or not bloggers are journalists, ruling instead that the information in question consisted of trade secrets that are not protected anyway.

    Xrlq (e2795d)

  20. Xrlq,that is not good either.

    If the Califormnia judge dodged the issue in his final ruling, it means there is no chance to reverse such a ruling on appeal. So we are left with a federal judge’s order to the FEC to bring blogging under McCain-Feingold.

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  21. Xrlq, PS: also, thanx for the link, just visited. Great site!

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  22. Xrlq, one final question: is the Bear Flag League’s brief likely to carry any weight with the appeals court, aren’t they raising an issue the judge ducked?

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  23. My interest in Kerry’s military records center on a constitutional matter, those discharged under less than honorable circumstances cannot serve as senators or pres/ VP. Thats my reading anyway

    Ray Simpson (75a3b5)

  24. They’re covered by the Privacy Act. You cannot get them with a FOIA request.

    Bill (96a8a6)

  25. If the Califormnia judge dodged the issue in his final ruling, it means there is no chance to reverse such a ruling on appeal. So we are left with a federal judge’s order to the FEC to bring blogging under McCain-Feingold.

    True, but we would be anyway. The California case concerns the journalist privilege under the California Constitution, not any principle relevant to the federal one.

    As to whether or not BFL’s brief will carry any weight, it all depends on how the Court of Appeal rules. If they uphold the trial court judge’s ruling on the basis that the information is outside the journalist privilege for everyone, they’ll probably opt not to rule on whether or not bloggers are journalists. But if they reverse the ruling that the information is not generally protected, then they’ll have to either rule on whether or not bloggers are journalists, or, more likely, order the lower court judge to make that determination himself.

    Xrlq (e2795d)

  26. Xrlq, the BFL sounds like it is just one or two legal steps short of being the type of voluntary association of bloggers I have in mind in posts 7 and 15 above.

    In your view, could the creation of a formal, (incorporated?)national association of bloggers, with a professional code of conduct and a formal process for issuing press credentials to its members, play a significant role in gaining court recognition of bloggers as reporters and journalists?

    Aren’t the courts obligated to recognize such associations and accept the self-definitions which a group like that gives to itself?

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  27. Nah, the courts don’t have to recognize anything. I actually floated the concept of incorporating BFL prior to submitting the amicus brief, but the general consensus was that there was no good reason to do so. Anyone can form an association of anything, that doesn’t mean the courts will take them any more seriously than any other motley crew of individuals expressing their opinions.

    Xrlq (717f9d)

  28. Xrlq, I am disappointed to hear that, but I thank you for taking time to reply to my queries.

    Regards,
    ttyler5

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  29. Count me in, I’ll try to dig up some info for you.

    Nick (cf2862)

  30. Patterico, I checked with an attorney friend active in conservative politics who has experience in filing FOIA requests and he says Kerry’s records would require Kerry’s permission, and then would disclose basically only what Kerry chose to disclose.

    I have given him your URL and asked him to read your post on this and the comments to make sure I accurately described to him the information you are seeking and other details, as I am not familiar with these subjects.

    He said he would take a look at the postings and drop you an email if there is a way to get the records you seek released to the public through the FOIA.

    Regards,
    ttyler5
    Houston

    ttyler5 (77d0e0)

  31. […] it . . . or trying to get you to fall for it. Don’t. And you wonder why I want to file my own FOIA request. […]

    Patterico’s Pontifications » Nothing to See Here, Folks . . . Again (0c6a63)

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    Bobrila (89be9f)


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