The Really Interesting Question is Why You Consider That Such an Interesting Question
The L.A. Times says the flap over Newsweek‘s flawed Koran-flushing story is exaggerated:
The more interesting question may not be how Newsweek goofed, but why the Muslim world is so ready to believe the story.
One could also ask why much of the Muslim world believes the Jews were behind 9/11. But how “interesting” would that question be?
Well, I think we know why many Muslims want to believe these lies. There is no mystery there. People tend to believe that which reinforces their egos. (I believe someone will read this).
Christianity was in this condition around the middle ages and came out of it through a period of conflict and tumult. The Protestant-Catholic wars not only had a nationalistic theme, they had a progressive-conservative theme (later repeated in the French and Russian revolutions). Eventually, there was Vatican II and the current debates over intelligent design, etc. The point is that there are ongoing debates and examinations.
The Muslim world is undergoing a similar coming to terms with empirical reality. Unfortunately, as of yet, there are no great conclaves or reformers in the Muslim world that have come forward to reconcile the differences or to systematically challenge/affirm questionable orthodoxy. So the religion is in real threat of becoming irrelevant and discredited along with its adherents. On this current path, Islam will be a niche religion in the next 3-4 generations. Where is the legacy in that?
The interesting question is how Islam will or will not find itself relevant in the future. For that, it will need to address its many internal and external contradictions and find some doctrinal consistency of importance to the human condition. It has been a long time coming. It would help to be truthful about the situation. Here Newsweek and many others are to blame.
Paul Deignan (f0de8b) — 5/17/2005 @ 8:14 amAnother “more interesting question” is why so many reporters were as willing as Muslim fundamentalists to believe the story.
Yet another “more interesting question” question is why so many Americans distrust reporters and the media in general.
Kevin Murphy (6a7945) — 5/17/2005 @ 8:26 amA better questioin that the LA Times is why MSM is so ready to believe the story?
kent (c79b49) — 5/17/2005 @ 8:48 amKevin, kent,
I got an answer to that last question: Transnational Liberalism
Basically, the progressive movement is gaming against its host for short term gain in a zero sum game (as it sees it).
Paul Deignan (5a0a98) — 5/17/2005 @ 9:15 am(1) Something to do with is it Lynndie England?
Yi-Ling (2e5ccb) — 5/17/2005 @ 2:00 pm(2) Muslim world ? Or some extremists ? Or Some extremists in limited places?
“The more interesting question may not be how Newsweek goofed, but why the Muslim world is so ready to believe the story.”
They probably have the same persecution complex that christians do, but it is reinforced by actual facts such as the tens of thousands of muslim deaths caused by the US.
actus (3be069) — 5/18/2005 @ 8:12 amWhat is meant by this “persecution” complex?
How is it same?
What is this tens of thousands of muslim deaths?
Yi-Ling (ff2d81) — 5/18/2005 @ 8:17 amWhy is it caused by the US?
“What is meant by this “persecution” complex?How is it same?”
They think everyone is against them.
“What is this tens of thousands of muslim deaths?
Why is it caused by the US?”
People have died in iraq you know. Because of our war.
actus (3be069) — 5/18/2005 @ 9:46 amOh, so if we weren’t in Iraq, and the bastards who are carrying out the attacks that are killing Iraqi civilians were running the country like they used to, the killings would stop? If anything, far more Iraqis would be dead right now if we never went in (as the 300+ mass graves can attest).
Sean P (256007) — 5/18/2005 @ 9:56 am“Oh, so if we weren’t in Iraq, and the bastards who are carrying out the attacks that are killing Iraqi civilians were running the country like they used to, the killings would stop?”
I don’t think so. But there wouldn’t be as many US killings of muslims. I do agree though, that persecution complexes don’t need much facts to go on.
actus (3be069) — 5/18/2005 @ 10:03 amVatican II has some interesting advances like inter religious understanding where simply, people of other faiths if they are live a moral life, they are also saved 🙂 Profound way is per the documents of Vatican II , Declaration on the relation of the Church to non Christian religions http://www.cin.org/v2non.html from the full set of Vatican II http://www.cin.org/vatiidoc.html
Your analysis could gainfully follow what others have done- that is, to separately examine the Arab world
We would need to be better read to conclude that as there are some progressive writers and thinkers but whether they rise to “great conclaves or reformers in the Muslim world” I do not know as I am not well read in that field.
Try google the statistics and world religion for a start. Strict and conservative apostasy rules also keeps the membership.
One could examine why is there move to have Muslim banking, separate from usual commercial banking? What are the Muslim banking instruments and facilities and who offers them, whether just Muslim banks or international commercial banks too? One could also consider why there is Muslim insurance and what are the basis for such competiting instruments? Where are they proceeding and what is their clientile ? How much of the global economy is it? A drip?
Internal contradictions of women’s place in Muslim societies face challenges from feminist perspective and Muslim feminists grapple between the role of women in traditional Muslim societies and modern life.
Yi-Ling (99d721) — 5/18/2005 @ 10:33 amI like the time of Christianity when gnostic or other gospels abound and before the state [ I think the Roman Empire] held a council to sieve through all the available gospels and then canonise only four of the many gospels. So Mark Matthew Luke John are just some of the many gospels available then 🙂
Yi-Ling (99d721) — 5/18/2005 @ 10:53 am“I don’t think so. But there wouldn’t be as many US killings of muslims.”
Sean, you just have to understand that it’s OK for Muslims to kill other Muslims, as Saddam had done for years – not a peep would be heard from the infamous “Arab street.” But when the “great Satan” does it, even given our intent to free the people of Iraq from a ruthless dictator, who was at the time apparently also a threat to us, now there’s something about which to become truly incensed.
Don’t think so simply. You need to try to understand the nuance of mass graves, environmental terrorism and attacks on Saddam’s Muslim neighbors Iran and Kuwait and his probable intent to control a large portion of the world’s oil supply.
Harry Arthur (b318a5) — 5/18/2005 @ 10:21 pmYi-Ling, it was the church over a period of a few centuries after the death of Christ that eventually settled on the canon of scripture for the NT, now recognized throughout most of the Christian world. The selection was based on fairly objective standards including evidence for the source of the document and an analysis of its content.
You might find this site interesting, among others. I think you would also enjoy Dr. Bruce M. Metzger’s book, The Canon of the New Testement: Its Origin, Development and Significance (Clarendon Press. Oxford. 1987). I believe it is still in print and readily available.
Harry Arthur (b318a5) — 5/18/2005 @ 10:53 pmHarry Arthur,
(1) I am the unusual Roman Catholic Theravada Buddhist but see myself more of the latter than former , though I have come across another RC Vajrynana Buddhist , but would usually call myself a Theravada Buddhist.
(2) The non included gospels deal with rebirth doctrines a feature of Hinduism and Buddhism.
If these had been included the ‘face” of Christianity might not be so different from Buddhism 🙂
(3) Thanks :-), at one time, I would have gladly researched the council- how, where, etc, that brought about this exclusion, but currently I have to stay focus on other items.
Yi-Ling (79d5e2) — 5/19/2005 @ 1:52 amMy hypothesis is that the exclusion was in some ways affected influenced by vested state interest and state power, details of it, I gleaned once, but slips my mind after such passage of time. Recently when I read Karen Armstrong A HISTORY OF GOD, I vaguely recall she did mention some of the reasons, but again, memory slips the details unless I pour over that part again to refresh 🙂
Yi-Ling (79d5e2) — 5/19/2005 @ 1:56 am