<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: L.A. Times Exaggerates Cost of Death Penalty in California</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 21:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-33086</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-33086</guid>
		<description>I think you fail to realize the fact that ALL death penalty cases are subject to mandatory appeals and review proceedings. Whereas LWOP cases are not. You make the arguement that every LWOP defendant would obviously appeal, true, except that they can't because it costs too much. Which is the same reason why every criminal does not appeal every criminal conviction. Death penalty cases are guarranteed appeals and reviews whereas LWOP cases are not. So... while every LWOP defendant "would" appeal, few do because the resources aren't there. Therefore, yes it does cost each and every state with a death penalty statute more money to prosecute and defend on a capital punishment case than on a LWOP case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you fail to realize the fact that ALL death penalty cases are subject to mandatory appeals and review proceedings. Whereas LWOP cases are not. You make the arguement that every LWOP defendant would obviously appeal, true, except that they can&#8217;t because it costs too much. Which is the same reason why every criminal does not appeal every criminal conviction. Death penalty cases are guarranteed appeals and reviews whereas LWOP cases are not. So&#8230; while every LWOP defendant &#8220;would&#8221; appeal, few do because the resources aren&#8217;t there. Therefore, yes it does cost each and every state with a death penalty statute more money to prosecute and defend on a capital punishment case than on a LWOP case.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cyle</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-10655</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-10655</guid>
		<description>so where does all the money that is spent on the execution go? who are we paying all this money to for killing these guys?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so where does all the money that is spent on the execution go? who are we paying all this money to for killing these guys?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: russ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9366</link>
		<dc:creator>russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 13:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9366</guid>
		<description>Doesn't anyone find it pathetic that it takes so long for a state, any state to administer the death penalty in the first place?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t anyone find it pathetic that it takes so long for a state, any state to administer the death penalty in the first place?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: See-Dubya</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9362</link>
		<dc:creator>See-Dubya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 07:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9362</guid>
		<description>There's also the hidden value of having the death penalty as a prosecutor's bargaining chip--in other words, if you tell us where the bodies are buried, or if you testify that Gang Leader X ordered you to kill this person, we'll give you LWOP.  Without the death penalty card in a prosecutor's hand, the bargaining would start at LWOP and end up somewhere much more lenient.

The problem is that this value is almost impossible to quantify.   There's no way to examine the counterfactual and determine whether a defendant who agrees to LWOP to avoid the death penalty would have been a continued criminal risk had he started at LWOP and bargained down to twenty years.  But I'll bet there's a significant value in keeping them locked up.  Then, the value of their testimony to avoid death must also be great but hard to measure.  What's the value to society of having a particular kingpin off the streets, or the value of closure of having a missing child found?

I don't think the LA TImes has begun to capture the true economic value of the death penalty.  But you know what?  The whole argument's a red herring.  The purpose of the death penalty is ultimately retribution and punishment. Deterrence is a secondary benefit. 

(Sorry if this is a double post--it didn't go up last time.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also the hidden value of having the death penalty as a prosecutor&#8217;s bargaining chip&#8211;in other words, if you tell us where the bodies are buried, or if you testify that Gang Leader X ordered you to kill this person, we&#8217;ll give you LWOP.  Without the death penalty card in a prosecutor&#8217;s hand, the bargaining would start at LWOP and end up somewhere much more lenient.</p>
<p>The problem is that this value is almost impossible to quantify.   There&#8217;s no way to examine the counterfactual and determine whether a defendant who agrees to LWOP to avoid the death penalty would have been a continued criminal risk had he started at LWOP and bargained down to twenty years.  But I&#8217;ll bet there&#8217;s a significant value in keeping them locked up.  Then, the value of their testimony to avoid death must also be great but hard to measure.  What&#8217;s the value to society of having a particular kingpin off the streets, or the value of closure of having a missing child found?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the LA TImes has begun to capture the true economic value of the death penalty.  But you know what?  The whole argument&#8217;s a red herring.  The purpose of the death penalty is ultimately retribution and punishment. Deterrence is a secondary benefit. </p>
<p>(Sorry if this is a double post&#8211;it didn&#8217;t go up last time.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9361</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 07:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9361</guid>
		<description>I agree that suicide among death row inmates beats death by natural causes, but among death row inmates, I find it pathetic that the number of deaths by execution doesn't dwarf all other causes combined.  In any event, the fact that suicide accounts for 20% of death row inmate deaths is not at all equivalent to a 20% suicide rate among the death row population at large.  We haven't had the fake death penalty long enough for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that suicide among death row inmates beats death by natural causes, but among death row inmates, I find it pathetic that the number of deaths by execution doesn&#8217;t dwarf all other causes combined.  In any event, the fact that suicide accounts for 20% of death row inmate deaths is not at all equivalent to a 20% suicide rate among the death row population at large.  We haven&#8217;t had the fake death penalty long enough for that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9360</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 06:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9360</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I find the fact that a death row inmate is slightly more likely to kill himself than be killed by the state, and twice as likely to die of natural causes, downright obscene.&lt;/i&gt;

Really?  Part of the reason for that is that there appears to be a very high suicide rate.  Over 20% of the deaths on Death Row have been from suicide.  That's a lot.

If more than 20% of the 640 remaining Death Row inmates chose to "take responsibility" for their crimes in a similar fashion, that would be well over 100 suicides.  I'd rather see them executed in due course than commit suicide.  But -- keeping in mind that we're talking about the worst cold-blooded killers society has -- I'd rather see them commit suicide than die of natural causes.  

We could do better, but I'm surprised we're doing as well as we are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I find the fact that a death row inmate is slightly more likely to kill himself than be killed by the state, and twice as likely to die of natural causes, downright obscene.</i></p>
<p>Really?  Part of the reason for that is that there appears to be a very high suicide rate.  Over 20% of the deaths on Death Row have been from suicide.  That&#8217;s a lot.</p>
<p>If more than 20% of the 640 remaining Death Row inmates chose to &#8220;take responsibility&#8221; for their crimes in a similar fashion, that would be well over 100 suicides.  I&#8217;d rather see them executed in due course than commit suicide.  But &#8212; keeping in mind that we&#8217;re talking about the worst cold-blooded killers society has &#8212; I&#8217;d rather see them commit suicide than die of natural causes.  </p>
<p>We could do better, but I&#8217;m surprised we&#8217;re doing as well as we are.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Boman</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9359</link>
		<dc:creator>Boman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 06:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9359</guid>
		<description>Patterico - thanks for busting the LAT, once again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patterico - thanks for busting the LAT, once again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Xrlq</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9357</link>
		<dc:creator>Xrlq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2005 05:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9357</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So: 53 cold-blooded murderers have died on California's Death Row since 1978.  A bare majority (28) died "naturally," while 25 died from execution, suicide, or from apparent murders.  That doesn't sound so bad to me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It sounds horrible to me, though not for a reason the &lt;i&gt;Pyongyang Times of Los Angeles&lt;/i&gt; is likely to care about.  I find the fact that a death row inmate is slightly more likely to kill himself than be killed by the state, and twice as likely to die of natural causes, downright obscene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So: 53 cold-blooded murderers have died on California&#8217;s Death Row since 1978.  A bare majority (28) died &#8220;naturally,&#8221; while 25 died from execution, suicide, or from apparent murders.  That doesn&#8217;t sound so bad to me.</p></blockquote>
<p>It sounds horrible to me, though not for a reason the <i>Pyongyang Times of Los Angeles</i> is likely to care about.  I find the fact that a death row inmate is slightly more likely to kill himself than be killed by the state, and twice as likely to die of natural causes, downright obscene.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patterico's Pontifications &#187; Letter to the Editor About Exaggerating the Cost of the Death Penalty</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9369</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico's Pontifications &#187; Letter to the Editor About Exaggerating the Cost of the Death Penalty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9369</guid>
		<description>[...] rico          @         6:36 am                                    	I am still appalled at &lt;a href="http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/2726/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/"&gt;yesterday&#8217;s L.A. Times article on the death pena [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] rico          @         6:36 am                                    	I am still appalled at <a href="http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/2726/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/">yesterday&#8217;s L.A. Times article on the death pena [...]</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patterico's Pontifications &#187; Exchange with L.A. Times Reporter About Death Penalty Article</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/#comment-9416</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico's Pontifications &#187; Exchange with L.A. Times Reporter About Death Penalty Article</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=2726#comment-9416</guid>
		<description>[...] @         9:37 pm                                    	Reader Bill Millan forwarded my &lt;a href="http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/2726/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/"&gt;criticism&lt;/a&gt; of the recent L.A. Times article on the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] @         9:37 pm                                    	Reader Bill Millan forwarded my <a href="http://patterico.com/2005/03/06/2726/la-times-exaggerates-cost-of-death-penalty-in-california/">criticism</a> of the recent L.A. Times article on the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 0.134 seconds -->
