Music Question
For the classical music buffs out there:
Did Richard Wagner borrow heavily from Felix Mendelssohn’s Third Symphony in constructing one of the major leitmotifs of the Ring cycle?
If so, what does that say about Wagner — who reviled Jews in general and Mendelssohn (and his music) in particular?
I’ve never seen this discussed anywhere.
Maybe we can get M. Croche to weigh in.
P.S. For a $30 donation to Spirit of America, you can demand that Dean Esmay write an essay about a topic of your choice. The sadistic side of me (which is not insignificant) says this would be a great topic . . . Lucky for Dean, I have control of my sadistic side.
P.P.S. Okay, Croche is avoiding the question, so I’ll be more specific. I am referring to the opening theme of the first movement of the Mendelssohn Third, as compared to the leitmotif commonly known as the “Annunciation of Death,” or what some have called the “Judgment Motif.”
P.P.P.S. Croche has weighed in. Unlike his political comments on this site, which are often trollish and annoying, he has some interesting thoughts on this topic.
I said any subject, and I meant it.
I have have seen the entire Ring cycle and have recordings of parts of it, and I have some exposure to Mendelssohn but I’d probably have to go borrow a copy of the third symphony from the library, but right offhand it wouldn’t surprise me a bit of Wagner borrowed heavily from it because, like a lot of anti-semites, he probably thought Jews tended to be particularly intelligent and creative, that being one of the things that made them so devious and dangerous, not unlike the Niebelung himself.
Comment by Dean Esmay — 4/26/2004 @ 8:42 am
$30 for the rest of my thoughts on the matter.
Comment by Dean Esmay — 4/26/2004 @ 8:43 am
What? You Thought I Was Kidding?
A $30 donation to Spirit of America, I will write an essay with at least two references on any subject. I guarantee that it will…
Trackback by Dean's World — 4/26/2004 @ 8:49 am
Hmmm. Well, I’ve already paid the freight; I’m just weighing the topic. If you know this much about it, then this question may not be sadistic enough.
My limited recollection is that Wagner specifically expressed contempt for Mendelssohn’s music in his essays. However (consistent with your comment), Wagner did grudgingly acknowledge the genius of at least one Jewish conductor (Hermann Levi) who was an early advocate of Wagner’s works.
Comment by Patterico — 4/26/2004 @ 9:50 am
I don’t want to reveal more about which themes I’m talking about until we have heard from Croche.
Comment by Patterico — 4/26/2004 @ 9:51 am
Let’s see if I can dig up $30.
Get ready for an analysis of the differing syntax between Umbrian and Oscan if I can.
Comment by The Angry Clam — 4/26/2004 @ 10:56 am
Thanks for the shout out…. Sorry to make you wait - I’m not a regular reader, and I do have a job.
I don’t have the scores for either work to hand, but relying on memory I would say this:
There are enough similarities between Mendelssohn’s theme and Wagner’s to suggest that Wagner modelled his on Mendelssohn’s. I say “modelled”, because Wagner introduces a number of interesting elaborations or variations on Mendelssohn’s theme. Mendelssohn’s theme is a i-V progression with a quasi-phrygian cadence setting up the dominant. Wagner’s construction is more complicated, with greater harmonic elaboration in the middle, and returning to the tonic, through treating it as (perhaps?) an unresolved dominant.
Wagner is also quite inventive in how he “frames” this theme. It is introduced as the consequent phrase (the last four bars) of an eight-bar unit. Later in the act, when the colloquy between Brunnhilde and Siegmund becomes more agitated, that consequent phrase is turned into an antecedent phrase (the first four bars) of an eight-bar unit.
These details confirm a quip of Stravinsky’s: “Mediocre composers borrow, great composers steal.” That Wagner’s theme is modelled on Mendelssohn’s seems reasonably clear, though it is always possible that the reminiscence is an unconscious one or entirely coincidental. The question is: do we read this as stealing (or borrowing)? Wagner could very well point to his phrase and claim that what he wrote was so much more interesting than what Mendelssohn did. The case would be comparable to Beethoven’s Fidelio, based on another composer’s opera-comique: Beethoven reportedly addressed the composer with something like: “I liked the opera, I think I’ll set it to music.”
This by the way, would not be the first reminiscence of other music to creep into Act II of Die Walkure: one passage in there recalls the opening of Liszt’s Faust Symphony.
As to the relationship between Wagner and the Jews: if Wagner thought he was “improving” Mendelssohn, then his musical procedure would be consistent with his stated opinions about the creative qualities of Jews in a couple of his essays. On the other hand, Wagner was notoriously opportunistic in his praise and dismissal of Jews. For example, he positively begged Hermann Levi (Jew) to conduct the premiere of Parsifal (!). There is plenty of evidence that Wagner’s anti-Semitism (like that of many anti-Semites) allowed for a lot of personal contact with, and approval of, “good” Jews.
I think with a little effort one might be able to find some important, fundamental things that Wagner learned from Mendelssohn, particularly with regard to orchestral color and perhaps with regard to melodic construction. Certainly Wagner’s operatic dramaturgy was heavily influenced by French grand opera, and in particular by Meyerbeer. But in detecting these influences, we should also not ignore the startling ways in which Wagner transformed his artistic heritage.
Comment by M.Croche — 4/27/2004 @ 1:29 pm
Well, it’s been about an hour since I posted the above. Can I type now “Okay, Patterico is avoiding my response”?
Comment by M.Croche — 4/27/2004 @ 2:41 pm
Heh. My comment was a good-natured poke at you. I’ll take yours in the same vein.
Croche, you’re always welcome to discuss music around here. You’re kind of an irritating troll when we talk politics, but on music you have some interesting things to say. If you *become* a regular reader, maybe I’ll do more music posts.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Comment by Patterico — 4/27/2004 @ 5:14 pm