Comments on: Pig in a Poke: The Upcoming Initiative to Amend the Three Strikes Law http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/ Harangues that just make sense Sat, 05 Jul 2008 02:59:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: brett http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1468 brett Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1468 > Charlie Manson could be paroled and break into your house or threaten to kill you -- and he wouldn't face 25-to-life, despite his numerous previous murder convictions. Is this really what we want? Let me get this straight.. You want someone to face 25 years to life for either breaking into your house or "threatening" you? I don't care what their past history is - that is far too harsh a sentence. In answer to your question, YES. > Charlie Manson could be paroled and break into your house or threaten to kill you — and he wouldn’t face 25-to-life, despite his numerous previous murder convictions. Is this really what we want?

Let me get this straight.. You want someone to face 25 years to life for either breaking into your house or “threatening” you? I don’t care what their past history is - that is far too harsh a sentence. In answer to your question, YES.

]]> By: Brett Bellmore http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1469 Brett Bellmore Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1469 The law <i>doesn't</i> put somebody in prison for 25 years to life for breaking into your house and threatening you. (No sneer quotes needed.) It puts them in prison for 25 years to life for proving that they're incapable of being reformed, a permanent threat to all around them. The breaking in and threatening is just the proof. Though I will grant that getting shot in the act would be better; A pity California is too uncivilized to encourage that sort of thing. The law doesn’t put somebody in prison for 25 years to life for breaking into your house and threatening you. (No sneer quotes needed.) It puts them in prison for 25 years to life for proving that they’re incapable of being reformed, a permanent threat to all around them. The breaking in and threatening is just the proof.

Though I will grant that getting shot in the act would be better; A pity California is too uncivilized to encourage that sort of thing.

]]> By: Sean O'Hara http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1470 Sean O'Hara Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1470 Quibble: Manson would have at least two strikes -- the Tate and LaBianca murders took place in LA City and LA County respectively, and thus were tried separately. Manson also had a significant criminal history prior to the murders. I don't know if he had any convictions that would qualify as a strike (and even if he did, many of them were from outside of California), but it's certainly possible. Quibble: Manson would have at least two strikes — the Tate and LaBianca murders took place in LA City and LA County respectively, and thus were tried separately.

Manson also had a significant criminal history prior to the murders. I don’t know if he had any convictions that would qualify as a strike (and even if he did, many of them were from outside of California), but it’s certainly possible.

]]> By: Patterico http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1471 Patterico Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1471 Your quibble is factually wrong. 1) Charles Manson was convicted of the Tate and LaBianca murders in one very famous trial. Deputy D.A. Bugliosi ended his summation with "a roll call of the dead": <blockquote>Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Sharon Tate...Abigail Folger...Voytek Frykowski...Jay Sebring...Steven Parent...Leno LaBianca...Rosemary LaBianca...are not here with us in this courtroom, but from their graves they cry out for justice.</blockquote>Read more about it <a href="http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansonaccount.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> (among many other places). 2) Felonies committed in the City of Los Angeles are tried by the Los Angeles County D.A., as are felonies committed in the County but outside the City. Whether the murders happened inside the city limits or not would have no effect on the number of trials conducted. In any event, Manson was tried for the Tate murders and LaBianca murders in one trial. Manson's previous history included burglaries, thefts, and one arson (the details of which I am unaware). He would have two strikes anyway, because he was convicted of the murders of Shorty Shea and Donald Hinman in a trial separate from the Tate/LaBianca trial. My point was that he would get only one strike for the Tate/LaBianca trial -- a result which is outrageous. Your quibble is factually wrong.

1) Charles Manson was convicted of the Tate and LaBianca murders in one very famous trial. Deputy D.A. Bugliosi ended his summation with “a roll call of the dead”:

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Sharon Tate…Abigail Folger…Voytek Frykowski…Jay Sebring…Steven Parent…Leno LaBianca…Rosemary LaBianca…are not here with us in this courtroom, but from their graves they cry out for justice.

Read more about it here (among many other places).

2) Felonies committed in the City of Los Angeles are tried by the Los Angeles County D.A., as are felonies committed in the County but outside the City. Whether the murders happened inside the city limits or not would have no effect on the number of trials conducted.

In any event, Manson was tried for the Tate murders and LaBianca murders in one trial.

Manson’s previous history included burglaries, thefts, and one arson (the details of which I am unaware). He would have two strikes anyway, because he was convicted of the murders of Shorty Shea and Donald Hinman in a trial separate from the Tate/LaBianca trial.

My point was that he would get only one strike for the Tate/LaBianca trial — a result which is outrageous.

]]> By: Xrlq http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1472 Xrlq Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1472 <blockquote>Your quibble is factually wrong.</blockquote> In that case, you are ethically obligated to remove his comment post haste. Or does that rule only apply to newspapers? I'm confused.

Your quibble is factually wrong.

In that case, you are ethically obligated to remove his comment post haste. Or does that rule only apply to newspapers? I’m confused.

]]> By: Patterico http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1473 Patterico Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1473 Nice try -- but: 1) Did I select his comment for publication? 2) Does anyone run the risk of being confused about the truth? It would be different if this were a liberal site, and Sean O'Hara sent me that erroneous observation in an e-mail, and I printed it -- especially if I knew (or should know) it's false, but printed it with the intent of misleading people about the law. This is inside baseball (not blogball) anyway. Nice try — but:

1) Did I select his comment for publication?

2) Does anyone run the risk of being confused about the truth?

It would be different if this were a liberal site, and Sean O’Hara sent me that erroneous observation in an e-mail, and I printed it — especially if I knew (or should know) it’s false, but printed it with the intent of misleading people about the law.

This is inside baseball (not blogball) anyway.

]]> By: williams http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1474 williams Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1474 Has anyone looked at the march 2001 ruling by the CA appeals court in Los Angeles? Attorney John Robert case was published because of the defination was left to be determined by each judge on what constituted a third strike. The "pizza defense" used as one example, and a second case of non-violent offenders getting struck out for traffic tickets. This case was used to set Guidelines. Something that was not set before. It required the third stike to be a violent offence. Not stealing a piece of pizza. Has anyone looked at the march 2001 ruling by the CA appeals court in Los Angeles? Attorney John Robert case was published because of the defination was left to be determined by each judge on what constituted a third strike. The “pizza defense” used as one example, and a second case of non-violent offenders getting struck out for traffic tickets. This case was used to set Guidelines. Something that was not set before. It required the third stike to be a violent offence. Not stealing a piece of pizza.

]]> By: papillion http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1475 papillion Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1475 as a true republican not one of the facsists who have infiltrated the party i will delite in seeing the 3 strikes law be forever abolished it has only served those who want to gain either politically (Grey Davis)career or monetarily (THOSE WHO BUILD PRISONS AND ALSO THE PRISON GUARDS UNION) No one in their right mind wants people locked up for pizza, golf clubs, or videotapes this will be on the minds of all the voters and anyway besides those who gain directly from the 3 strikes laws its only supported by a small number of people those who are still reeling from deaths caused by violance (which excuses them from criticism) and the most extreme fanatics who are ignorant and believe in the 3 strikes laws as well as a number of other vile insane measures.So as I pull the straight GOP ticket I will also vote to rid us of this 3 strikes insanity. as a true republican not one of the facsists who have infiltrated the party i will delite in seeing the 3 strikes law be forever abolished it has only served those who want to gain either politically (Grey Davis)career or monetarily (THOSE WHO BUILD PRISONS AND ALSO THE PRISON GUARDS UNION) No one in their right mind wants people locked up for pizza, golf clubs, or videotapes this will be on the minds of all the voters and anyway besides those who gain directly from the 3 strikes laws its only supported by a small number of people those who are still reeling from deaths caused by violance (which excuses them from criticism) and the most extreme fanatics who are ignorant and believe in the 3 strikes laws as well as a number of other vile insane measures.So as I pull the straight GOP ticket I will also vote to rid us of this 3 strikes insanity.

]]> By: Frank Principato http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1476 Frank Principato Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1476 Can you tell me when is this initiative coming up? Thanks, Frank Principato Can you tell me when is this initiative coming up?

Thanks, Frank Principato

]]> By: PrestoPundit -- Defining Liberalism for the 21st Century. http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1477 PrestoPundit -- Defining Liberalism for the 21st Century. Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000 http://patterico.com/2004/04/04/pig-in-a-poke-the-upcoming-initiative-to-amend-the-three-strikes-law/#comment-1477 <strong>Effort to Gut California Three Strikes Law.</strong> "The initiative is a pig in a poke. It's being sold as a combination "child protection" bill and a... Effort to Gut California Three Strikes Law.
“The initiative is a pig in a poke. It’s being sold as a combination “child protection” bill and a…

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